christopherwoo
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:14 am

Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:00 am

Does anyone know why no airlines fly London gatwick to Paris?? I was just looking on expedia and the only flights you can get from gatwick change at places like manchester etc! crazy!
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:04 am

Daallo Airlines of Djibouti flies LGW-CDG-JIB on Wednesday evenings using a leased Astraeus 757, but they don't have traffic rights. You can nonrev on the flight though if you know somebody at either D3 or AEU. You might need to wake up immigration at CDG to let you out on arrival however!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:05 am

Well I think that with so many flights to Paris from other London airports, as well as the Eurostar service, there isn't enough demand for flights from LGW as well.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:08 am

Heathrow is the European gateway airport for London. Gatwick is used mainly by airlines that don't have LHR access rights or for flights from US cities that aren't covered under the Bermuda II treaty (Examples, ATL-LGW, CLT-LGW) and by some charter airlines.
 
christopherwoo
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:14 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:09 am

well see thats the thing. Gatwick is quite a way out of london. For those people who live South East of london Gatwick would be a great place to have a CDG route. I can't believe easyJet haven't done it already!
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:15 am

I have just posted a reply in the thread bmi pulls out from Paris.

In a nutshell I think that Eurostar has eroded the demand for air travel between London and Paris. Assuming that you are travelling from the centre of London to the centre of Paris, why take the plane and have the hassles of
  • Spending 40 minutes travelling from town to the airport
  • Being held up in security queues etc for no less than an hour
  • Waiting up to 30 minutes for luggage reclaim and
  • 30 minutes journey from CDG to the centre of Paris
Eurostar would be quicker and takes you to the heart of Paris.

BA pulled out from the LGW-CDG route last summer (or was it the previous summer?) and nobody, not even U2 or flyBe, stepped in to fill the void left by BA's withdrawal. If there was a demand for a service between LGW-CDG, someone would surely have stepped in by now. A West African airline (cannot remember off hand who) does fly weekly from LGW to Africa via CDG, but they do not have local traffic rights.

BD has now pulled out from LHR-CDG and the service offered by BA/AF is only a fraction of what they offered in the pre Eurostar days. Both BA and AF probably only continue the route as feeders for their long-haul services from LHR and CDG, and although LGW does offer more US destinations than LHR, obviously these services do not pick up much feed from pax starting their journey at CDG (probably because there are direct services to most of these US destinations from CDG).

It is also strange that the only service from London to ORY is AF's service from LCY.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
Heathrow is the European gateway airport for London. Gatwick is used mainly by airlines that don't have LHR access rights or for flights from US cities that aren't covered under the Bermuda II treaty (Examples, ATL-LGW, CLT-LGW) and by some charter airlines.

What about BA then?
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:24 am

Are there flights from ORY-LON?
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
Are there flights from ORY-LON?



Quoting BCAL (Reply 5):
It is also strange that the only service from London to ORY is AF's service from LCY
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 6):
What about BA then?

It was BA’s murder of, sorry merger with British Caledonian that led to a second base being established at LGW. Prior to that BA only operated from LGW scheduled services to the Channel Islands and in the late 1970s they were forced by the UK Government to transfer their Iberian services from LHR to LGW (IB and TAP were also forced to follow but this led to a “revolt” by the Spanish and Portuguese Governments that saw a temporary ban of all UK airlines from landing at their main airports so there was a U-turn).

The main reason why BA wanted to gain a foothold at LGW was to prevent other independent UK airlines, and possibly also foreign airlines (since SAS then entered the bidding), from taking over some of BCal’s routes on which they were the sole UK designated carrier. These included services to Dallas-Fort Worth, Atlanta, Riyadh, Jeddah, most West African and South American destinations to name a few. LHR was also slot restricted and the only large expansion that BA could see at that time was to develop a hub at LGW.

The geographical location of LHR and LGW as well as the number of people living with each airport’s catchment area accounts for a reported difference of a 10% lower load factor at LGW than LHR, and scheduled services generate a 20% lower revenue and results in up to a 25% lower yield at LGW compared to LHR.

In the years after the merger BA moved all West African and South American services to LHR. Services to the mid US had to remain at LGW under Bermuda II but if they could, and the slots were available, BA would also move these to LHR quicker than you could blink.

BA had to offer connections for their long-hauls at LGW and this is why they operate services to many European and some domestic destinations from LGW. It had been estimated by BA’s forerunners at LGW that their short-haul domestic feeder flights generated additional long-haul revenues of GBP 5 million per annum and that the European feeder services added GBP 20 million to their long-haul services.

Because of the limited slot availability and congestion at LHR, BA transferred some of their lower yielding long-hauls to LGW, with the result that apart from services restricted under Bermuda II most of BA’s long-hauls at LGW are more leisure-orientated, attracting less premium passengers. Indeed, at one time some of these services were operated by other airlines (e.g. Flying Colours) for BA.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
iahflyer
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:12 am

In June of 2000 I flew on BA to CDG from LGW, is that service no longer provided?
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 10):
In June of 2000 I flew on BA to CDG from LGW, is that service no longer provided

Discontinued as from summer last year - see Reply 5
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 5):
It is also strange that the only service from London to ORY is AF's service from LCY.

I think its because ORY is closer to Paris city centre than CDG - better for business pax. Connecting traffic can be handled on AF's remaining once daily LCY-CDG
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:58 am

Quite simply:

Why go to Victoria rail station to check-in for a LGWPAR service, when you can easily go to Waterloo rail station and check-in for a direct PAR Gare du Nord train service. You will be there, in the centre of Paris, by the time it takes to go out to LGW or LHR, go through airport security, etc.

Also, see: http://www.eurostar.com/UK/uk/leisur...release/2007_01_11_record_year.jsp
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
Heathrow is the European gateway airport for London. Gatwick is used mainly by airlines that don't have LHR access rights or for flights from US cities that aren't covered under the Bermuda II treaty (Examples, ATL-LGW, CLT-LGW) and by some charter airlines.

Of course it's debatable, but LGW is a different market for European services than LHR. A bit like comparing LAX and Burbank or Ontario, if you like.

I didn't know there were no longer direct LGW-CDG services, so I assume that the option of driving to Ashford station in Kent and catching a train or travelling from London Waterloo or Heathrow, has rendered flights non-viable. I'm surprised by that.

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 10):
In June of 2000 I flew on BA to CDG from LGW, is that service no longer provided?

Apparently not, according to BA's website.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 9):
It was BA’s murder of, sorry merger with British Caledonian that led to a second base being established at LGW.

Cheers for the info you've provided there. I remember the furore about TP and IB moving services to LGW (or not).
 
TPAnx
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:53 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 5):
BA pulled out from the LGW-CDG route last summer

Thanks for the info. Flew BA from CDG to LGW to catch the BA LGW-TPA flight..and the thread title caught me by surprise...TPAnx
I read the news today..oh boy
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 5):
A West African airline (cannot remember off hand who) does fly weekly from LGW to Africa via CDG

The airline is Daallo and the flight is to Djibouti that operates twice weekly on Weds and Sun via CDG.

According to their website (beware of pop-ups if you visit it), bookings are accepted for the LGW-CDG leg.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
bwaflyer
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:48 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 16):
The airline is Daallo and the flight is to Djibouti that operates twice weekly on Weds and Sun via CDG.

According to their website (beware of pop-ups if you visit it), bookings are accepted for the LGW-CDG leg.

Flight is operated by Astraeus on 757 equipment. Flight D3 100 / D3 101 operates on Wednesdays only, arriving back in the UK on Friday. The additional Sunday flight is a summer seasonal service.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any

Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 16):
According to their website (beware of pop-ups if you visit it), bookings are accepted for the LGW-CDG leg.

D3 have no local traffic rights LGW-CDG. I've nonrevved on this most recently 4 weeks ago and the only people getting off at Paris were myself, the pilots and the captain's girlfriend. I was leaving as a pax the next day so I had to get my non-EU passport stamped and hence had to find an immigration officer, otherwise we could have walked through the entire arrivals area without seeing a living soul.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
goldorak
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 12):
I think its because ORY is closer to Paris city centre than CDG - better for business pax

It's one of the reason to have choosen ORY for these flights. The other one was very short taxi time at ORY (and almost never any wait before take off) compared to CDG. So as a whole, shorter flights from/to airports close to the city (ORY) or inside the city (LCY) to attract more business customers
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 4):
well see thats the thing. Gatwick is quite a way out of london. For those people who live South East of london Gatwick would be a great place to have a CDG route. I can't believe easyJet haven't done it already!

You're quite right. I used to use this route almost monthly as it was SO convenient. Have hardly been back to Paris since the discontinuation - since LHR is just the wrong way for anyone living in Kent and Sussex.

I am still surprised BA pulled the plug - as it was often v busy with lots of passengers on Trans-atlantic connections... but hey.. I now use Eurostar...
 
cambrian
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:45 am

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:17 pm

I think that there is a demand from LGW to Paris, even for just a handful of flights to serve as onward connections from long haul services. Friends of mine regularly travel from Barbados to Paris via LGW and they have to travel on to Heathrow.

This is such a pain that they have now defected to AF via Martinique and Guadeloupe.
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Flights From LGW To Paris, Why Arn't There Any?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 21):
I think that there is a demand from LGW to Paris

I would love to be able to fly from LGW-CDG, as it is both a long and slow trip to LHR from the Sussex Coast and, unless you have a car, Ashford International and the Eurostar are not accessible. However, there cannot be sufficient demand if AF and then BA dropped their services, and no other airline stepped in. I would have thought that flyBe, or U2, would have started a LGW-CDG service, since both already serve CDG from other UK airports and have a significant presence at LGW.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 727LOVER, adamblang, AirIndia, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], carljanderson, flightsimer, msycajun, TZTriStar500, Yahoo [Bot] and 194 guests