FlyPNS1
Topic Author
Posts: 5287
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:11 am

Beginning April 17th, DL will shift its 3x daily DFW-LGA to DFW-JFK. All flights will continue to use the E170.

I think this move makes sense. DFW-JFK allows for a large number of connections (both domestic and int'l) at the JFK hub. DL was struggling to compete on the DFW-LGA route which relied mostly on O+D traffic against AA which had far better frequency.
 
commavia
Posts: 10071
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:14 am

My personal prediction: the new DFW-JFK route goes down to only a single 1x daily ERJ170 within a year timed for an afternoon DFW eastbound departure and evening JFK arrival and an evening JFK westbound departure and night DFW arrival, both timed for Europe connections.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4496
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:21 am

Frankly, this is the right decision. This way the flights can be times for European connections rather than service for the O&D traffic that AA already covers tenfold.
It is what it is...
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:37 am

I imagine this might be the first of several LGA routes to be moved.....
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 3):
I imagine this might be the first of several LGA routes to be moved.....

Well DL already announced that LGA-ORD will be switched to LGA-MDW while JFK-ORD will be upped to 7x daily (perhaps 5x?). LGA-DFW never made much sense anyway and many wondered why DL had not restarted JFK-DFW service. LGA-MIA has been very successful due to DL's large presence in both cities. The route switched between MD-88s and ERJ-170s depending on time of year, JFK-MIA has also been upgraded to an MD-88. Other than that DL has been running the same LGA routes for basically the last few years so those should remain intact.

Jeremy
 
N839MH
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:21 am

FLYPNS1...very interesting you're advertising "internal" information which is not supposed to be public knowledge till next week...be careful!
Solodude!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:26 am

MSY-LGA has been running with the CR7 and has been doing very well....although I wouldn't mind seeing them switch it to JFK due to the Europeean connections, I don't think they'll move it...if anything, I'd like to see them run both LGA and JFK from here.
 
belizexp
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:38 am

It good to see DL JFK-DFW back now let see if IAH will be back too (I know CO doing well with the JFK service to IAH)
Belize my home sweet home...
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting N839MH (Reply 5):
FLYPNS1...very interesting you're advertising "internal" information which is not supposed to be public knowledge till next week...be careful!

You mean "internal" information that was posted on Flyertalk a good 90 minutes before FlyPNS1 posted it on here and which everyone can look up on delta.com? Sure a weird definition of "internal"...
 
PVD757
Posts: 3036
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:49 am

indeed, the new schedule is loaded into the delta website...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
The route switched between MD-88s and ERJ-170s depending on time of year,

The route is an MD88 year-round. This past fall, due to aircraft shortages, it ran as E170s for a short time.
a.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:58 am

it is also pretty likely that DL will be offering more early morning international arrivals from JFK by this winter so that there are multiple international connecting banks possible.

I'm not quite sure how DL is using the slots at LGA that are freed up by this action... any idea?
 
as739x
Posts: 5018
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:09 pm

Information is also already in Sabre.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
LGA-DFW never made much sense anyway and many wondered why DL had not restarted JFK-DFW service.

Actually DFW-LGA made a lot of sense to me so I am a little surprised that they are completely leaving this market. I would think given DL's supposed loyal base in both Dallas and New York City could have made these flights work. DFW-JFK is a natural - and I am actually surprised this hasn't been offered by DL already.
 
commavia
Posts: 10071
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 13):
I would think given DL's supposed loyal base in both Dallas and New York City could have made these flights work.

Delta doesn't really have much of a "loyal base" in the Metroplex left to speak of, at least not in my experience. There are still a few holdouts who conduct most of their business in Georgia, or don't mind connecting to go everywhere. But by and large, all of the former high-value Delta FFs in the Dallas/Fort Worth area gave up long ago when they started having to take 70-seat RJs to placed like Washington, DC.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:50 pm

look for more routes from JFK in the near future...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3036
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
look for more routes from JFK in the near future...

international, domestic, both???
 
N839MH
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:58 pm

My Bad...I was thinking of something else...sorry FlyPNS1...

but back to the topic...this is great...the only thing I wish was different
about this would have been these flights been operated with DL mainline!

Does anyone know if the E170's have a weight restriction at times like
the RJ's?
Solodude!
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:12 am

It's interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 895
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
It's interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.

My thoughts exactly! When DL pulled down DFW, I always thought they would have and should have kept DFW-NYC/BOS/LAX, the hubs and FL service. But perhaps there is something else in store for DL.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.

the route wasn't a failure bro. so whats interesting? their moving a bunch of flights (these aren't the first) to JFK...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
N839MH
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:38 am

One of the biggest reasons the DFW-LGA market hasn't worked in DFW is because of Shuttle America. Many problems with the E170's, and more so the on-time performance has really been pathetic. The last flight from DFW to LGA, this flight is late 4 days a week if not more on average. We continue to rebook passengers on AA off of this flight because it is late the majority of the time. Dependability is what is killing this market for Delta and will do the same for the JFK flights. My thoughts would be have the morning 07:20 flight goto LGA...the later morning flight to JFK and the early afternoon flight to LGA...but all with mainline!
Solodude!
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 20):
the route wasn't a failure bro. so whats interesting? their moving a bunch of flights (these aren't the first) to JFK...

Obviously moving flights to JFK makes sense given DL's hub. However, and not to turn this into another LGA vs. JFK thread, DFW-LGA was naturally set-up to link two important business centers. I would think that DL could offer both LGA and JFK from DFW. I am guessing the higher yielding business travels felt differently hence the move from LGA to JFK. So yes, DFW-LGA did fail but I am certain DFW-JFK will be a success.

At the end of the day, I guess what is truly important is that DL has a presence in the Dallas-New York City market, whether it's to LGA or JFK...
 
commavia
Posts: 10071
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
It's interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.

Indeed. And the route is about to go all-mainline (4x MD80s) from a mix of MD80s and Eagle RJs starting 10Apr06.

Quoting N839MH (Reply 21):
One of the biggest reasons the DFW-LGA market hasn't worked in DFW is because of Shuttle America. Many problems with the E170's, and more so the on-time performance has really been pathetic.

I think the schedule may also have something to do with it. With Delta's first eastbound D/FW departure at 10:20am, how do they possibly expect to attract business travelers (especially on such a narrow, low-frequency route to begin with)? The westbound schedule out of LGA isn't nearly as bad, but it's still hardly ideal when we're talking about three daily flights with 75-seat jets versus American's 15 daily flights (one every 45-60 minutes) with 140-seat jets.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:09 am

It’s worth noting that ATLNYC is a low fare priced market and has been for several years. DFWNYC has traditionally not been low fare priced. There are very few examples where one network carrier has successfully penetrated another network carrier’s hub if the market does not have a low fare structure.

Also, AA has a stronger presence in NYC than DL does in DFW; remember, AA was headquartered in NYC for the first 40 years or so of its existence. Even now, AA and DL have fairly similar shares in NYC; DL’s share of the DFW market is less than 1/10th of AA’s.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:23 am

So what happens to the slots that DL might free up by shifitng some ops to JFK? I don't know completely how it works, but do they have to give them up if they don't put other service in??
Why do I fly???
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:50 pm

DL can easily increase service on existing routes.... they won't give up any slots
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:08 am

While 3 flights on little E170s don't help much, DL also seems to do a real bad job of advertising its flights out of DFW. Hardly anyone seems to know they have flights to JFK. Do they still have the single flight to MCO? Never understood the logic behind that one. Heck, people didn't know much about DL's flights when they had the hub here.

They should have tried and maintained a few of their prominent routes when they closed their hub like someone already mentioned, and perhaps maintained a song-type focus - it just might have done well. There are a ton of people who fly the silver beast only because they have to and don't have a choice. I like DL and flew them a good bit while they had their hub, but I guess DL and DFW is another piece of history thats just about gone.

Glad to see JFK coming online though, hope it stays and does well.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.

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