Gasman
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Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:24 am

In this morning's New Zealand Herald

"If you go forward the next 10-15 years the vast majority of people will be carrying their own personal entertainment devices. So you won't see the seat-back TV screens on aircraft. You might have a content system that allows you to plug in your own personal entertainment device."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10420212

To which I say, "bollocks".

At the moment I believe ANZ's IFE is fantastic. It's like a treasure trove of stuff that one doesn't even get to scratch the surface of, even over a 12 hour flight. I have no desire to replace this with the same old crap that's sitting on my i-Pod, which I should have got around to refreshing but never quite did.
 
aerohottie
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:15 am

I don't disagree with what he is saying at all...

Quoting Gasman (Thread starter):
I have no desire to replace this with the same old crap that's sitting on my i-Pod,

To which I say that by the time these changes are enacted your I-pod will be obselete. Mobile technology is heading the way of the new i-phone incorporating mobile phone, video player, music player and internet. If I understand Fyfe correctly, what he is saying is the IFE of the future will be more like a host or hub rather than the entire system. It will simply enable the user to plug in there own devices, giving them access to internet, and mobile facilities.

I am very interested in the bunk idea for Y pax....
What?
 
aerohottie
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:18 am

Also in the article Fyfe stats that short-haul is becoming more user pays and that long-haul is focussing more on comfort and luxury.... he didn't mention that C and F even on short-haul are demanding more and more and are willing to pay more for these features. It is my belief and has been for sometime that NZ should replace the current C on the A320's across the tasman with the long-haul C seats in a 1-1 configuration.
What?
 
workflyer
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:30 am

I seriously do not think that pax are going to pay for a lie flat bed on a 2.5 to 3.5 hour flight, so the idea of the business first seat being installed in an A320 is unlikely. The cost of being in that seat would not be comensurate with the return for the pax.

Yes I am aware that 777s and 747s do transtasman legs with the new seats but they were not installed with shorthaul in mind.
 
nzrich
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 2):
Also in the article Fyfe stats that short-haul is becoming more user pays and that long-haul is focussing more on comfort and luxury.... he didn't mention that C and F even on short-haul are demanding more and more and are willing to pay more for these features. It is my belief and has been for sometime that NZ should replace the current C on the A320's across the tasman with the long-haul C seats in a 1-1 configuration.

Yes but at a guess that would cut business from 8 seats down to 2 im guessing of the new seats for the A320..i think it would be more likely to see the A320 and 767 business class rebranded as premium economy than being ripped out and replaced with the new business class seat..

As for the pay as you go for short haul im sure he was talking for economy class rather than the premium cabins for short haul.
"Pride of the pacific"
 
aerohottie
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting WorkFlyer (Reply 3):
I seriously do not think that pax are going to pay for a lie flat bed on a 2.5 to 3.5 hour flight, so the idea of the business first seat being installed in an A320 is unlikely

They are not paying for a lie flat seat... they are paying for the comfort and luxury experienced with the long-haul product. The Long-haul seat although does take up more space than the current C seats, it doesnt take up that much more, and would enable the airline to extract more of premium (or rather justify the premium they already charge)... Could also enable the airline to have a few rows of premium economy (also with the long-haul seats)....
This strategy would separate the C pax that want a true C class product and service, whilst the pax that want to travel in C but can't justfy the cost could pay a smaller premium over Y but still recieve more room, IFE and a decent meal... Y class could then be pushed further down the PAYG (pay as you go) track.
What?
 
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alaskaqantas
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 2):
that NZ should replace the current C on the A320's across the tasman with the long-haul C seats in a 1-1 configuration.

agreed with that... I mean you could take Emirates First class for cheaper then what it would be in business on NZ or QF
ex:
outbound: 3rd of October business class QF
Return: 10th of October Business class QF
Price=$2,437NZD
Boeing 767-300

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Will Lanting


---
Outbound: 3rd of October Business class NZ
Return: 10th of October Business class NZ
price=2,067NZD
Airbus A320/Boeing 767-300

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Bennison


---
Outbound: 3rd of October FIRST class EK
Return: 10th of October FIRST class EK
Price= $1,662NZD
Boeing 777-300ER

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



October 3rd and the 10th were both Wednesdays in the far future. I wouldn't have to think twice about this.

Quoting Gasman (Thread starter):
If you go forward the next 10-15 years the vast majority of people will be carrying their own personal entertainment devices. So you won't see the seat-back TV screens on aircraft. You might have a content system that allows you to plug in your own personal entertainment device."

With regards to this, if every airline has PTV's then why would people want to buy a portable DVD player... more stuff to carry around and more money to spend. Or in the case of a Laptop, it takes up all of your tray space, especially in Economy.
So I do't see PTV's going out of fashion any time soon.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.
to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
 
workflyer
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:34 pm

If you choose a different day to travel on NZ, say the 6th of October returning on the 13th you can take the 777 service for the same cost and get a lie flat bed and all that comes with it if you were desiring this.

Personally I prefer the frequency of service and the ability to arrive in either Sydney and Melbourne at about (or before with QF) 8:30 in the morning so I may get a days work done. I can then catch a plane home again the same day, no need to fork out for a hotel room or pack an overnight bag.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting Alaskaqantas (Reply 6):
So I do't see PTV's going out of fashion any time soon.

I agree with that, some major airlines dont even have PTV's on their longhaul flights UA, LH, etc
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
koruman
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:55 pm

When will people realise that for Australians and Yanks / Poms visiting Australia the 3 hour Trans-Tasman flight is the beginning or end of a 20 hour journey, so YES the long-haul product should be on those flights.

Especially since Emirates charges less for a higher quality business product on the same Tasman routes.
 
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:20 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 9):
Especially since Emirates charges less for a higher quality business product on the same Tasman routes.

Because EK can offord to offer dirt cheap Tasman fares as the Tasman isn't their biggest local market while for QF and NZ it is. I seriously doubt any passenger (well maybe a.netters) would fly into AKL on either NZ or QF then swap to EK just to have a nice business class or lie flat first class seat.
 
antskip
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 9):
When will people realise that for Australians and Yanks / Poms visiting Australia the 3 hour Trans-Tasman flight is the beginning or end of a 20 hour journey, so YES the long-haul product should be on those flights. Especially since Emirates charges less for a higher quality business product on the same Tasman routes.

Fyfe just doesn't get it. He wants NZ to be a LCC airline on the Tasman. That's fine up against JQ and DJ; inadequate when the competitors are QF and EK, both of which treat their Tasman routes as part of their wider long-haul networks. Fyfe says in the article that Australia is NZ's biggest market, yet he 1) treats the Tasman as if it were part of New Zealand 2) does not take full advantage of NZ's rights to use Australia as a hub.

As long as NZ has costs and fares matching JQ and DJ, his stated policies will be at par only in LCC-dominated sectors, and where there is little or no competition. I have have heard of a new Tasman product coming soon - surely this isn't it?

The choice of purchasing enhancements to the NZ LCC product sounds good, though. It will be nice to have the opportunity to buy a decent meal in the middle of a long day's travel.
 
koruman
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:40 pm

Haven't you worked out what the "enhancements" will be on the Tasman?

1) Offering IFE on the A320 and 767: but whereas the competitor Emirates offers it for free, Air NZ will charge for rental of a portable DVD system just as it does when the same A320 aircraft fly the Tasman on Freedom branded flights.

2) The nightmare scenario of the British Midland frequent flyer system: no points at all unless you pay ten times the cheapest fare for the same seat.

3) Charging for the Air NZ "in-flight cafe snack".

In other words, the A320 and 767 Tasman product will be identical to Freedom Air, except that if you pay an insane premium (for example an additional $400 per sector) you will get 20 Airpoints Dollars.
 
Gasman
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Alaskaqantas (Reply 6):
With regards to this, if every airline has PTV's then why would people want to buy a portable DVD player... more stuff to carry around and more money to spend. Or in the case of a Laptop, it takes up all of your tray space, especially in Economy.
So I do't see PTV's going out of fashion any time soon.

Completely agree. When travelling, I like to minimise the paraphenalia I cart on board.
 
cofannyc
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting Gasman (Reply 13):
Completely agree. When travelling, I like to minimise the paraphenalia I cart on board.

I certainly agree right now in Jan 2007. However in Jan 1997, walking through the airport with my large Discman and ridiculous collection of CDs, I never would have told you that the iPod would fit in my pocket and eliminate the CD case.

I don't think any of us knows what personal entertainment will be like in 10-15 years. But if I had a choice between bringing the movies, music, TV, etc that I want on to the plane and interfacing with their TVs, I definitely would.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:08 pm

Where on earth are these bunks going to fit? Why not just fit all seats in with lie flat or near lie flat seats rather than waste the space where the bunks are; and nobody is in them for departures or arrivals? How much would you pay for sleeping in a "bed" that will rock in the turbulence? Will they provide noise cancelling headsets for comfort? I'd say not. NZ could get the A350 XWB and use the middle aisles in the rear for areas with bunks and seats around it... Hmm, doesn't sound good at all.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 12):

Such enhancements will force me off NZ unless they provide widebodies on the routes. Paying for baggage? Outrageous! How can you keep up a short haul product that differs ENTIRELY from the long haul one? Call it Freedomair, paint all of the 733s, 763s and A320s yellow and split it fully from Air NZ? Some people like me will be disgusted. Even DJ doesn't charge for taking a piece under 20kg and competing like that will definitely lose customers. Just a few years ago we took everything for granted.. Soon we'll have to pay for every extra making the short haul similar to a Ryanair style service.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 15):
Such enhancements will force me off NZ unless they provide widebodies on the routes.

So even if NZs improvements on the Tasman are better then the current NZ products but with no wide-bodys, you still wont fly NZ. No airline like NZ is goig to provide wide-bodys when it doesnt need to and when A320s can do a better job then wide-bodys
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting Gasman (Thread starter):
In this morning's New Zealand Herald

"If you go forward the next 10-15 years the vast majority of people will be carrying their own personal entertainment devices. So you won't see the seat-back TV screens on aircraft. You might have a content system that allows you to plug in your own personal entertainment device."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10420212

To which I say, "bollocks".

At the moment I believe ANZ's IFE is fantastic. It's like a treasure trove of stuff that one doesn't even get to scratch the surface of, even over a 12 hour flight. I have no desire to replace this with the same old crap that's sitting on my i-Pod, which I should have got around to refreshing but never quite did.

I think if you are going to quote small sections you should at least get a balanced quote....
He said that in regards to shorthaul flights (ie 4 hours or less)... He went on to say that for longhaul flights there will infact be more IFE features etc...
 Wink
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Gasman
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:58 pm

[

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
I think if you are going to quote small sections you should at least get a balanced quote....
He said that in regards to shorthaul flights (ie 4 hours or less)...

Perhaps, although not explicitly. But in any case, I would like to see a thrust towards providing full IFE on short haul, not in the other direction.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
He went on to say that for longhaul flights there will infact be more IFE features

No he didn't say this at all...........
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Gasman (Reply 18):
No he didn't say this at all...........

"It's about bringing seat prices down but more importantly it's about having people pay for what they want," says Fyfe. "So if I don't want a meal - or I don't want an airline meal - I might want to bring some of my own food."

The same approach could be applied to services such as airpoints, lounge facilities and luggage. "If I don't want to put any bags in the hold, I don't have to pay for it. And if I do want to do those things, I pay what it truly costs. So you don't have one customer cross-subsidising another customer."

Travellers may even be expected to take control of their own entertainment needs. "If you go forward the next 10-15 years the vast majority of people will be carrying their own personal entertainment devices. So you won't see the seat-back TV screens on aircraft. You might have a content system that allows you to plug in your own personal entertainment device."

If short flights are destined to head down-market then the opposite looks likely to be the case for long haul.

"The focus for long haul will be on even cleverer devices to improve comfort levels for passengers. When you sit on an aircraft you are in essence renting space for a period of time. The space that you rent won't get any larger per se but we'll find better ways - as we have with our new business-class seats - to utilise it."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10420212

Well what would cleverer devices be? hmmm devices... wouldn't happen to be electronics etc now would it? considering it was supposed to be the opposite direction to short haul: "If short flights are destined to head down-market then the opposite looks likely to be the case for long haul."
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Gasman
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 19):
Well what would cleverer devices be? hmmm devices... wouldn't happen to be electronics etc now would it?

Slightly less than collegial.

Sorry, but I don't see that "cleverer devices" (his words) is necessarily synonymous with

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
He went on to say that for longhaul flights there will infact be more IFE features etc...

(your words)

For all we know, he could have been imagining a foot massager.
 
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alaskaqantas
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RE: Rob Fyfe On Future IFE

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting WorkFlyer (Reply 7):
you choose a different day to travel on NZ, say the 6th of October returning on the 13th you can take the 777 service for the same cost and get a lie flat bed and all that comes with it if you were desiring this.

but that is a once a week service, so that would mean that your likley hood of getting on a 777ER is 1/33... I like my chances with Emirates, which is 100% for getting the 777! Plus Emirates offers their flights for less! (as shown)

Not sure where Fyfe is going with this whole bunks thing... The future is coming fast, as it always has, and we will see what is to become of this.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.
to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!

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