LimaNiner
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SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:20 pm

How come there's no non-stop on SFO-MBJ? I fly this route with my family non-stop several times a year, and often, we meet pax who fly the exact same route on at least one of the legs.

So far, there are 4-5 decent connections I'm aware of:

AA SFO-MIA-MBJ
AA SFO-DFW-MBJ (some days of the week)
DL SFO-ATL-MBJ
US SFO-CLT-MBJ
JM LAX-MBJ (and some way for me to get to LAX)

Given that we've often met people flying the exact same route, is there a market big enough to justify a non-stop? (We tend to fly first class, and so do the other pax we meet -- maybe that skews/invalidates the sample set? OTOH, isn't "up front" exactly where the airline makes the $$$?)
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:31 pm

CO via EWR


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.
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"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
Avianca
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 1):
CO via EWR

isnt the route to much north.... in order to compete directly with the first mentioned? well if the fare is cheap....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LAXintl
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:39 pm

Its been done and tried before.

During the 90s both ATA and Rich International briefly operated weekly SFO-MBJ charters on behalf of tour operators.

Ultimately however it comes down to West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans with closer options such as Hawaii and Mexico being in easy reach. Hey you can even make it down to Tahiti in mere 7 hours.

To be honest, I'm surprised Air Jamaica has managed to hang on this long in the LA market. For the first 10 months of 2006, they managed a 69% load factor, while the 2005 annual load was 66%. Both likely not profitable. The only other Caribbean nonstop from entire California is AA's low frequency LAX-SJU trip.
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md90fan
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:41 pm

Air Jamaica was considering buying Airbus A319s a while back to operate to San Fransisco along with Vancouver a while back.

You can add CO via IAH, and IIRC DFW-MBJ is daily now.

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LimaNiner
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 1):
CO via EWR



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 4):
You can add CO via IAH, and IIRC DFW-MBJ is daily now.

True, but those are kinda getting on the long side... If you want *all* routes, I guess you could even include VS via LHR...  Wink

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Ultimately however it comes down to West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans with closer options such as Hawaii and Mexico being in easy reach.

I guess you're right... *sigh*  Sad

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
I'm surprised Air Jamaica has managed to hang on this long in the LA market.

It's so much easier to run a "business" if you don't have to worry about profitability...  Wink
 
TWA902fly
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 5):
True, but those are kinda getting on the long side... If you want *all* routes, I guess you could even include VS via LHR...

how is that on the long side

SFO-IAH-MBJ is only 4 miles longer than SFO-MBJ.
SFO-DFW-MBJ is only 28 miles longer than SFO-MBJ

'902
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LimaNiner
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 6):
SFO-IAH-MBJ is only 4 miles longer than SFO-MBJ.

Sorry, I misread this one -- I thought it said "IAD", which, granted, isn't *that* far out of the way, either...
 
akizidy214
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting LimaNiner (Thread starter):
How come there's no non-stop on SFO-MBJ?

AA has a hard time filling the seasonal DFW-MBJ flight let alone a SFO-MBJ flight and there is a bigger Jamaican population in Dallas than there is in San Francisco. The aircraft could be used on a much more profitable route. I suggest SFO-DFW-MBJ on AA or SFO-LAX-MBJ on Air Jamaica. I also suggest a visit to my hometown Bluefields  Wink.
DCA
 
AirCop
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans

Oh well its there lost, personally I much rather go to the Caribbean than Cabo San Lucas or Hawaii. (Although it can be a core getting to some parts of the Caribbean from PHX) Side note around 2000-2001 Air Jamacia attempted PHX-MBJ didn't work, then attempted PHX-IAH-MBJ apparently they couldn't make that work either.
 
MAH4546
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8):

AA has a hard time filling the seasonal DFW-MBJ flight let alone a SFO-MBJ flight and there is a bigger Jamaican population in Dallas than there is in San Francisco. The aircraft could be used on a much more profitable route. I suggest SFO-DFW-MBJ on AA or SFO-LAX-MBJ on Air Jamaica. I also suggest a visit to my hometown Bluefields

Jamaicans fill plans to Kingston, not Montego. And no matter how much "bigger" Dallas' Jamaican community may or not be, neither is anything of significance.
a.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Jamaicans fill plans to Kingston, not Montego. And no matter how much "bigger" Dallas' Jamaican community may or not be, neither is anything of significance.

Pretty much the greater NYC, BOS region or south Florida (MIA, FLL & PBI) will be the greatest O&D to Jamaica. During the winter a few Canadian cities (YYZ, YUL, Quebec City) might fill a charter 2x-3x per week to MBJ.

[Edited 2007-01-25 04:28:04]
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akizidy214
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Jamaicans fill plans to Kingston, not Montego.

And your trying to say.....Limaniner is clearly a tourist and tourist attempt to fill planes to MBJ not KIN.
DCA
 
FATFlyer
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:39 pm

We've connected from Fresno to MBJ through both ATL and JFK.

But the travel time puts it lower on our repeat business than say Mexico or Hawaii. Probably many others feel the same way.

The same problem applies the other direction. East Coasters don't vacation in Hawaii in as large of numbers as West Coasters.

Looking at some numbers, more vacationers go to Hawaii from Fresno than from Cincinnati or Cleveland. Heck, more people vacation in Hawaii from Modesto than do from Pittsburgh or Charlotte.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
For the first 10 months of 2006, they managed a 69% load factor, while the 2005 annual load was 66%. Both likely not profitable.

My guess also is that nearly all of the tickets are booked in a package. Is it still a honeymoon run out of LAX?
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SLCUT2777
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Ultimately however it comes down to West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans with closer options such as Hawaii and Mexico being in easy reach. Hey you can even make it down to Tahiti in mere 7 hours.

It will amaze you how many Canadians from the western provinces (Alberta, B.C.) still take Signature or SunQuest charters to the Dominican Republic (POP & PUJ) each winter. SLC is just about the half way point of North America between Hawaii and a significant chunk of the Caribbean. But you're correct the western two time zones do orient more towards Hawaii and the Pacific Riviera of Mexico, and PPT is only a short-hop of 7 hours from LAX for those with the $$$!
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LimaNiner
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8):
I suggest SFO-DFW-MBJ on AA or SFO-LAX-MBJ on Air Jamaica.

We always do AA SFO-MIA-MBJ -- I wish AA ran the 767 on the SFO-MIA redeye.

The problem with the Air Jamaica connection is that on the return, you pretty much have to overnight in LA, unless you want to do LAX-SJC on WN, or something like that...

These days, I actually don't mind spending a night in Miami Beach on the way there and back to break up the day (it works better when traveling with a 2-yo son). I don't want to become the subject of another a.net thread, like the one currently raging in this forum, or the evergreen "why do they allow kids in first class??" (Answer: "because the airline sold a first class seat for a kid."  Wink

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 12):
Limaniner is clearly a tourist and tourist attempt to fill planes to MBJ not KIN.

Actually, I have family in Kingston, but these days, I go to JA to "chill out", not to look over my shoulder, so I avoid "town" -- haven't been there since '01. I spend my time on the North Coast...

It would have been nice, but I guess the business case just isn't there... *sigh*
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
My guess also is that nearly all of the tickets are booked in a package.

To a place like MBJ, that will be a given; a tour deal involving a few nights at an all-inclusive hotel/casino. From the U.S. a place like MBJ is pricier than compared to what Signature, SunQuest or Transat Vacations can offer up in Canada.
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