ExpressJet_ERJ
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Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:33 pm

I found these routes on the F9 website. Anyone know what delivery schedule is going to look like? In the press release it says final aircraft in Dec 08. That is a LONG way off. These routes I searched were May-Jun 07 area basically i searched all the DEN-outstations, only 1 PT-PT route i could find but that doesnt mean that is all there is:

Daily:
SFO-LAX 2x
LAX-DEN 1x
SFO-DEN 1x
SDF-DEN 2x
IND-DEN 1x
DEN-OKC 1x
DEN-OMA 1x
DEN-SFO 1x
DEN-GEG 1x
DEN-ABQ 3x
DEN-BOI 1x
DEN-ELP 1x

I searched DEN-YYC and got both RW and QX so I dont know whos doing that one. Anyone have any more info on this?

Thanks!
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LAXintl
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Thread starter):
SFO-LAX 2x

I saw something on this last week.

The plan is for LAX-SFO to drop from the current 5 flights to 4 dailies of which 3 are eventually operated by Republic E170s. Only the SFO-LAX-SJD-LAX-SFO roundtrip remains on the A319.

I suppose a humble admission that the LAX-SFO flights have not quite worked out as planned.
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northwestEWR
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:44 pm

Anyone know which 2 CRJ-700s are being returned to Horizon this month and when ?
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mariner
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
I suppose a humble admission that the LAX-SFO flights have not quite worked out as planned.

(a) They're keeping the route and -

(b) the summer schedule is not yet fully loaded and -

(c) nor have they yet announced any possible new CA/West routes.

LAS-SFO, for example, goes to 2 x daily, and DEN-SNA goes to 4 x daily (I'm wondering about the additional slots at SNA).

 Smile

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LAXintl
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:26 pm

You are right, while yes they are not abandoning the route completely, I would say its quite safe to consider things have not quite worked out as planned between LAX-SFO based on the following public signs.

Flight reduction:
from 5 A319s with 660 seats, down to 4 flights- 3 E170s and 1 A319 with 360 seats each way.

Fares:
After 7 months in the market F9 is still stuck at its $59 introductory fares, unable to raise them to even the $79 level a Frontier billboard near LAX advertises.
In addition F9 has launched a buy 3, get one free offer during the fall for LAX-SFO flights that seemingly keeps getting extended month by month and is now good thru the end of February.

Now from non public sources speaking with F9 crew members at LAX, loads outside of weekday early morning and late afternoons along with some weekend travellers have been nothing to but "atrocious". Apparently flights with 40-60 or so passengers are quite common along the corridor.

At the very least I'd say the 76 seat E170s will likely match capacity closer to what F9 manages to generate along with reducing hourly operating cost versus running A319s up and down.

In addition this will become the first scheduled E170 service into LAX, so its all good. Always great to see a new type!

[Edited 2007-01-22 08:37:58]
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mariner
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:41 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
I would say its quite safe to consider things have not quite worked out as planned between LAX-SFO based on the following public signs.

It depends what you consider "the plan" is.

I've frequently said - and I'm sure to you - that LAX-SFO is a building block in a wider CA/nearer states strategy.

So there seems little point in saying all that again.

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F9Animal
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
It depends what you consider "the plan" is.

I've frequently said - and I'm sure to you - that LAX-SFO is a building block in a wider CA/nearer states strategy.

So there seems little point in saying all that again.

mariner

I have a gut feeling that F9 may be looking at getting a FF program or codeshare with a large international carrier. I could be wrong, but they have something that is interesting them in that market. Of course, I am just taking a guess at it. Regardless, the market is a good one. F9 may just want a piece of the pie.
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dash8tech
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting NorthwestEWR (Reply 2):
Anyone know which 2 CRJ-700s are being returned to Horizon this month and when ?

608QX is being repainted as I type and should be out of the paintshop by the end of next week. 611QX entered C-Check a couple weeks back I believe is left the F9 system at that time.
 
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:19 pm

I suppose with DEN-IND and DEN-SDF, Republic is planning on performing 170 maintenance in our current maintenance bases...?

I'm hoping we'll eventually see DEN-PIT on the 170 so I can do some F9 flying!
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ruuxxv
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:07 pm

I think LAX-SFO loads in the low 30's are somewhat less than "planned." I don't believe the route's run higher than the 40's. Doesn't matter what "the plan" is, (assuming there actually is one) if "the plan" is predicated on crappy load factors. Oh...and add crappy fares to that.
What hallucinogenic induced thought process exists that leads one to believe that this is part of some larger plan escapes me. Perhaps it's the same thought process that inspired Joe Leonard's hairdo. Or Gordon Bethune's ego. Both are larger than several western states combined.

God help those of us who have to live with the conseqences of both those things. Especially the hairdo. At least we can see where all the oil in Iraq is going. If Joe would just blowdry, we could drive our SUVs guiltfree for years...
 
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Ruuxxv (Reply 9):
Or Gordon Bethune's ego.

If the man has an ego, he's earned the privilege of carrying it.

Frontier wants to Expand outside DEN... That's the cornerstone of their plan. To kick off an idea they had for that expansion, they started the LAX-SFO route. That's not a hard jump to see that LAX-SFO may be part of a plan.

Now, whether said plan is WORKING is a whole different debate.
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mariner
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Ruuxxv (Reply 9):
I think LAX-SFO loads in the low 30's are somewhat less than "planned." I don't believe the route's run higher than the 40's.

You can throw all the crap at it you want, you can guess load factors and give an opinion.

But the bottom line is that the airline is still flying the route.

???

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F9Animal
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Ruuxxv (Reply 9):
I think LAX-SFO loads in the low 30's are somewhat less than "planned." I don't believe the route's run higher than the 40's. Doesn't matter what "the plan" is, (assuming there actually is one) if "the plan" is predicated on crappy load factors. Oh...and add crappy fares to that.
What hallucinogenic induced thought process exists that leads one to believe that this is part of some larger plan escapes me. Perhaps it's the same thought process that inspired Joe Leonard's hairdo. Or Gordon Bethune's ego. Both are larger than several western states combined.

God help those of us who have to live with the conseqences of both those things. Especially the hairdo. At least we can see where all the oil in Iraq is going. If Joe would just blowdry, we could drive our SUVs guiltfree for years...

If your numbers are correct, I am actually pleased. I guessed that it would take a year to get the loads at the halfway point. You can't expect an airline to start service and have a 90% load factor in a few weeks. Patience is key, and the route is still new to the market.

I worked for an airline called Tristar based out of LAS. We started the LAX to SFO route, and it took almost a year to get the load factors into the 80-90% range. That was with minimal advertising (budget was small). Word of mouth was getting around, and it took time. That was with an airline that had only 4 aircraft in its fleet, and an airline that was in major financial trouble.

I have full confidence that the route will be successful for Frontier, and there is no doubt that the loads will increase (based on your numbers, if they are correct). Rome was not built in a day. Frontier has a great product, and a product that will get the cheeks in the seats.
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
But the bottom line is that the airline is still flying the route.



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 12):
Frontier has a great product, and a product that will get the cheeks in the seats.

Very good points...and in all honesty, I would believe you two over most people here about F9 as almost all your posts that I read are very well thought out and true. You two know an immense amount about F9 and until a press release comes out to differ from what you two are posting, I am gonna continue to believe you guys.
 
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:42 am

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this one. I notice that the BIL service isn't changed in the schedule yet, but when I was checking in for my F9 flight at BIL the other day, I was talking to the gate agent, who said that they were just told they'd be handling Republic's E70's when they come online. But, it's not in the schedule. Does anyone have ANY information on the BIL route?
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mariner
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 14):
But, it's not in the schedule. Does anyone have ANY information on the BIL route?

They're loaded on the Frontier website, and they're loaded on Travelocity, and have been for a week.

DEN-BIL goes to 2 x daily on April 15 and goes to 3 x daily on May 4.

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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:28 am

Are all of the QX CR7s (12?) being replaced with the Republic E170s? If so, it will be sad to see the CR7s go- they look great in the F9 livery. What does QX plan on doing with all of the new capacity coming back into the system?
 
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 16):
Are all of the QX CR7s (12?) being replaced with the Republic E170s?

Yes. Horizon and F9 mutually agreed to end the agreement. The CR7's will be gone before year end, and replaced with the E70's from Republic as well as the DH4's of F9's new wholly owned subsidiary.
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QXatFAT
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:42 am

Who is operating the FAT-DEN flight then? I thought QX is no longer servicing this flight. Is F9 doing this now in mainline and I have just been blind?
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S5FA170
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:43 am

Also keep in mind there will be 5 extra -170s in the fleet(compared to the CR7s). Any word on new service besides SDF running through the ranks yet?
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 18):
Who is operating the FAT-DEN flight then? I thought QX is no longer servicing this flight. Is F9 doing this now in mainline and I have just been blind?

Yeah, FAT is mainline now. So far, BIL is the only one not accounted for under the new system.
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ytib
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 18):
Who is operating the FAT-DEN flight then? I thought QX is no longer servicing this flight. Is F9 doing this now in mainline and I have just been blind?

This is now a mainline once a day route. It is usually served with the A319 arriving in the evening to FAT, and out in the morning to DEN.
 
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 20):
BIL is the only one not accounted for under the new system.

Hmmm? BIL is accounted for. See post #15.

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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:55 am

i was excited there for a moment, i mistook OMA for AMA  Wink
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):

Hmmm? BIL is accounted for. See post #15.

mariner

Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear on that one. It's loaded into the system, but it is all still listed as CR7's, which it will be through the summer, but after QX stops flying for F9, I'm wondering if BIL will get dumped, or if it will go to E70, or DH4.
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 18):
Who is operating the FAT-DEN flight then? I thought QX is no longer servicing this flight. Is F9 doing this now in mainline and I have just been blind?

Somehow you've haven't noticed.

Frontier flight 299 depart FAT at 6:00 AM, operated with an A319.
The return is Frontier flight 298 arriving in Fresno at 9:45 PM.
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 24):
I'm wondering if BIL will get dumped, or if it will go to E70, or DH4.

You're still not clear.

(i) Why would BIL be dumped? If it was in danger, why would they triple service?

(ii) Yes, it is CR7's because some CR7's are staying in the system until next December.

(iii) Fontier has not posted any schedule beyond the summer, apart from some flights to Mexico.

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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
(iii) Fontier has not posted any schedule beyond the summer, apart from some flights to Mexico

That's what I was wondering. Thank you.
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
(i) Why would BIL be dumped?

The reason I asked this was because I talked to a DEN-based QX pilot who flies the JetExpress routes who said that BIL was only served by JetExpress by Horizon's reccomendation, and that after they were gone, BIL would be dumped.

[Edited 2007-01-30 02:46:25]
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
(ii) Yes, it is CR7's because some CR7's are staying in the system until next December

Oh, and as for this one, I definitely realize this. I am just wondering if anyone in the company might know if we will be seeing the E70 or DH4. I understand that the schedules don't go past the end of the QX service, but I assume a decision has been made internally one way or the other.
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mariner
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 28):
who said that BIL was only served by JetExpress by Horizon's reccomendation, and that after they were gone, BIL would be dumped.

Te only source that I can find for any future information is Wikipedia, who say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billings_Logan_International_Airport

"Frontier Airlines
Frontier JetExpress operated by Horizon Air (Denver) [ends December 2007]
Frontier JetExpress operated by Republic Airlines (Denver) [begins December 2007]"


Meanigng Republic will take over BIL with the E170 when Horizon leaves. Best I can do.

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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
"Frontier Airlines
Frontier JetExpress operated by Horizon Air (Denver) [ends December 2007]
Frontier JetExpress operated by Republic Airlines (Denver) [begins December 2007]"

Meanigng Republic will take over BIL with the E170 when Horizon leaves. Best I can do.

Awesome. Hey man, thanks for looking into that for me. I really appreciate it.
Good goes around!