rikkus67
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:39 pm

HELP! Why are we letting yet another historic aircraft type go down the tubes? Recently on eBay, the club that was trying to restore one of the last remaining Convair 880's put TWO of the planes up for auction with parts and type certificates. The auction ended yesterday (JAn.21st) with no bids... I imagine there was little notice that this auction was going to take happen in the first place (there was a thread previously showing this auction).....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...viewitem=&item=170069777365&rd=1,1

(copy and paste the link into your browser)

The aircraft are now due to be scrapped withih the next three weeks...

How the F%#$ can we watch this happen?! OK, call me a romantic, but this is a travesty to aviation history...

SOMEONE...ANYONE...STOP THIS!!!

broken hearted in Calgary, Alberta

Rik (rikkus67)
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5006
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Rikkus67 (Thread starter):

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Micke//  Sad
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
SEPilot
Posts: 4919
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:08 pm

It is sad, but the simple fact is that it costs money to restore & maintain old aircraft, and while the CV-880 was an interesting plane it did not significantly affect aviation; while it was faster than others it was not by a wide enough margin to be significant and it was never commercially successful. That being said it is not surprising that no one is willing to put up the money to preserve it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:12 pm

Its not like 'ya could just throw it on the back of the old pick-up truck and bring it home. AND even if you could there is always the local "code-enforcement" to contend with. (The neighbors may not be too enthusiastic.)

In any event, there has been a lot of time for these things to go to museums, etc.

Also, when it comes down to it, there are much more worthy causes in the world today:
Developing a cure for HIV/Aids
Feeding the starving children and people of the world.
Getting the poor and starving immunized.
Eradicate land mines.
Provide education in third-world countries.
Hospitals for the sick and infirm.
And the list goes on and on.

As much as we love them they are, after all, just machines.

 twocents 
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
KPDX
Posts: 2371
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:04 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:43 pm

Quote:
Starting bid: US $95,000.00

Alright thats it.

I announce to you!

The Airliners.Net CV-880 Purchase Fund  bigthumbsup   Wink

Quote:
Being offered in the sale:

Convair 880, msn 13, N807AJ jetliner (complete with engines, a beautiful airplane for a museum)

Convair 880, msn 23, N817TW jetliner (aircraft is complete but missing engines and two pylons)

Convair 880, msn 03, N801AJ cockpit (complete cockpit, with history of being a Convair Demonstrator)

All the above are 98% complete of all instrumentation.

There is also a small amount of parts for the CV-880 model

If I had the money Id definetly get it! Big grin

KPDX  Smile
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
 
UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:43 pm

It is indeed tragic to see that there are no buyers for these classic jets.

The only way these will be restored and saved is if someone John Travolta gets his cheque book out and donates one of them to a museum. Sadly, there are obviously no aviation fans wealthy enough (and fond enough of the Convair 880) to do this.

Mr Travolta - I appeal to you - please!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4413
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:50 am

General Dynamics could save these planes with the cash they sweep off the floor on Fridays, if they wanted to. I wonder if they have been approached.
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
General Dynamics could save these planes with the cash they sweep off the floor on Fridays, if they wanted to. I wonder if they have been approached.

General Dynamics sold the remnants of Convair to Martin Marietta and McDonnell-Douglas back in the early '90s. I don't see why they would have any interest in this.

IIRC the CV880/990 were built at Convair San Diego. I'm not sure of the history of that plant - does it still exist, and if so who owns it now? If there was any interest at all in preserving an 880, I'd expect to find it amongst the people who built the thing.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4413
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 7):
General Dynamics sold the remnants of Convair to Martin Marietta and McDonnell-Douglas back in the early '90s. I don't see why they would have any interest in this

GD, which DID after all build them, could get a lot of cheap publicity if they put one in the Smithsonian at Dulles where millions would see it.
 
jetjeanes
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:42 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:42 am

I had contacted them about purchaseing the cockpit since they had three items up for sale, but they would not break them apart until after the sale, so each item maybe sold sepratly now,, I have not checked since the bidding was going on

Odd no spell check on here as usual
i can see for 80 miles
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 8):
GD, which DID after all build them, could get a lot of cheap publicity if they put one in the Smithsonian at Dulles where millions would see it.

A company that GD used to own built them. GD no longer makes aircraft, so what good would the publicity do them?

I'm looking for an answer to my question above, and if I read correctly it seems that Convair San Diego was purchased by none other than McDonnell-Douglas. That means that the CV880 lineage descends to Boeing, of all things. spin 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4413
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 10):
GD no longer makes aircraft, so what good would the publicity do them?

Make up for the generally bad news about their shipyards.  Smile
 
kbfispotter
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 10):
GD no longer makes aircraft, so what good would the publicity do them?

IIRC, GD bought Gulfstream a few years ago. So they are still in the aircraft manufacturing business...

Kris
Proud to be an A&P!!!
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 12):
GD bought Gulfstream a few years ago

Yep, I forgot about that. Even so, there isn't any link from Convair to Gulfstream other than that the same conglomerate owned the two at various times.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:52 am

The Convair plant in SAN where the 880 was born was thrown down in the 90's

As for museums taking the 880's I have talked to the owner in long emails and phone calls about this and he tell me he has gone to EVERY museum about saving the 880's and no one wants to put up the money to move them. It is typical with the whole 880 restore. Everytime they needed someone to help out with money or even going out and cleaning up the birds*%t off the airplane poeple turned away or just wanted to go out to Mojave and take pictures of all the airplanes out there and not work.

Yes I will be sad to see the 880's being scrapped, I wish I had more time and all the moeny needed to save the 880's myself, but without surpport from the outside there was no way Team Convair was going to be able to save a little piece of aviation history.

And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history, try telling that to Alaska Airlines, Delta Airlines, TWA and JAL airlines since the 880 was their first jet airplane.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history, try telling that to Alaska Airlines, Delta Airlines, TWA and JAL airlines since the 880 was their first jet airplane.

Not so sure about this...perhaps you mean it was the first jet they ordered? IIRC Delta launched both the DC-8 and the CV880, with the DC-8 coming into service first. Likewise I'm sure TWA was flying the B707 transatlantic before they received any CV880's. JAL certainly started with the DC-8. As for Alaska Airlines I have no idea what their first jet was.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
TheCheese
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:39 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:37 am

Alaska's first jet was indeed a Convair 880 that Charlie Willis got Convair to sell to him at a fire-sale price so that he could browbeat Boeing into selling him 727s.
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:41 am

I was afraid that this was going to happen  frown 
 
GHOSTRIDER
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:29 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 15):
Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history, try telling that to Alaska Airlines, Delta Airlines, TWA and JAL airlines since the 880 was their first jet airplane.

Not so sure about this...perhaps you mean it was the first jet they ordered? IIRC Delta launched both the DC-8 and the CV880, with the DC-8 coming into service first. Likewise I'm sure TWA was flying the B707 transatlantic before they received any CV880's. JAL certainly started with the DC-8. As for Alaska Airlines I have no idea what their first jet was.

TWA's first jet was in fact the 707, first placed into service for the airline on March 20, 1959 from San Francisco to New York....the 880's were placed into service for TWA in 1960.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting KPDX (Reply 4):

I'm in. Put me down for $100.00

Anyone else? With all the members on this site, $95,000 almost seems like an achieveable goal! I personally would kick in quite a bit more if I thought we all had a shot at it.

But then there's airport fees, and God only knows what it would take to get one of these flying...

Drew  wave 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
jetjeanes
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:42 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:48 pm

Could be an A netters Aircraft!!!! I had many questions for the man but i only
wanted the cockpit. These can be loaded on a step deck trailer and and 18 wheeler can pull it home. Now moveing the whole plane is another story, the wings and tail need removing and a stepdeck at most is 53 plus 2 ft hang would be about 55 feet long. This is really not a big aircraft. Elvis has a delta 880 someone pulled over here to his house one day and it was on a lowboy trailer but a man road on top of the plane from the airport and would push traffic lights up as it went down the road. Of course from the 70,s that thing is kind of gawdy looking inside. But i can remember that thing taking off and it smoked like it was on fire
i can see for 80 miles
 
jetjeanes
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:42 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:53 pm

according to this post they were haveing troubles in 2003...


Posted Wed Oct 1 2003 18:22:24 UTC+1 (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1091 times:

Looks like the Convair 880 restoration project may be in serious trouble.

According to their website, they need cash quick to pay the rent and tiedown fees.

From the website:
Help Us Pay the Rent!
The East Kern Airport in Mojave has been generous and patient with us as we've tried to generate funds to support the restoration of the Convair 880. However, they are not in the charity business and have started putting greater pressure on us to pay for our tie-down fees, and to pay on time. If we are not able to pay these fees, we will be forced to scrap the aircraft. We have put so much into getting this project off the ground that the thought of losing the plane is devastating to all of us, and I'm sure to all of you who have so many fond memories and personal experiences with this plane.

If they can't pay the rent, how can they expect to get that bird flying? Damn shame if you ask me; I'd have loved to see it fly. Not sure if they can get the donations to make it go...
i can see for 80 miles
 
UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
I'm in. Put me down for $100.00

Me too - if this is an option.
 
KPDX
Posts: 2371
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:04 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
I'm in. Put me down for $100.00

Me to! Two down, 948 people to go! (If they donate 100 dollars each that is!  )

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
But then there's airport fees, and God only knows what it would take to get one of these flying...

Put the Convair 880 in front of the Airliners.net server room building for static display!   

KPDX  

[Edited 2007-01-24 05:57:31]
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
 
IFlyTWA
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:29 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:18 pm

I'd be in for $1000 if this was really going to help save ship 13. Unfortunetly I doubt there is anything that anyone can do about it now. I believe these are the last two TW Convairs around now. Does anyone know how many 880s are in existence and where they are located?

[Edited 2007-01-24 07:20:31]

[Edited 2007-01-24 07:21:26]

[Edited 2007-01-24 07:21:54]
"To express the excitement of travel" - Eero Saarinen
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:18 pm

I could put down the whole amount for these two.
The problem is, this amount is just the begining.

If you were to think about flying this, the figure leaps into the millions.
Mohave would probably have more spares than anywhere else, meaning if it cannot be fixed here, it cannot be fixed anywhere.

Moving them will cost more than buying them.

Having the type certificates and full set of manuals makes it possible.

I suspect this is why they are now for sale.
Reality is you will need something along the lines of $2-3million just for one of them.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
SEPilot
Posts: 4919
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history,

I didn't say they played no part, I said they only played a small part. Historical preservation can be taken too far; every structure and machine ever built is in a sense historical. I got a very jaded view of historical preservation when our local slum which had come into existence as temporary WWII housing was declared "historical" in the 1990's. It should have had a match set to it in 1946. While the CV-880 was a very interesting aircraft, and those of us who love aircraft would like to see it preserved (I certainly am among those) I am certain that 99% of the population have never heard of it and would not care if they never did. Life moves on, as does history and technology.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
rikkus67
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:17 am

Knowing the cost of the Convair restoration would be $$$$, it is a shame that if nothing else, a cosmetic refinishing of the exterior could not be completed. Yes, if I had the money, I would definitely be interested in restoring the damn thing. There is a history of the CV-990 in Canada (Nordair operated the type), but sadly the 880 did not operate here in Canada.

My pipe dream would be to have enough $$$ to bring the 880 to Canada, and have it at least partially restored.

What a waste of yet another beautiful old bird....
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
As for museums taking the 880's I have talked to the owner in long emails and phone calls about this and he tell me he has gone to EVERY museum about saving the 880's and no one wants to put up the money to move them.

Moving them has got to be a huge expense. It is not like you can just fly them somewhere. Moving a CV-880 isn't like moving a DC-3 or and F-86 or something. Just taking it apart would be a huge job I bet.

A friend of mine is in the process of getting a free railroad caboose. The caboose may be free, but the moving it to his farm isn't. Talk about $$$. It can't be moved on a railroad because it is wood and its systems are non functional. Kind of like the CVs.

Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
Everytime they needed someone to help out with money or even going out and cleaning up the birds*%t off the airplane people turned away or just wanted to go out to Mojave and take pictures of all the airplanes out there and not work.

I used to be involved in a railroad museum in the 1990s and that was the case there too. My dad has been a volunteer at that museum for 17 years now and it is still the same case. Lots of people talk about working or donating money, but few do. Most just want to take pictures of trains.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 25):
If you were to think about flying this, the figure leaps into the millions.

When I worked around that museum I was involved with people who ran a large steam locomotive, the Frisco 1522. That things costs Hundreds of thousands of dollars and man hours to keep running. Eventually money ran out and it is parked. I would think it would be an even bigger expense to keep a CV-880 running and flyable.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see one at a museum. But getting one to a museum would be tricky.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 28):
I would think it would be an even bigger expense to keep a CV-880 running and flyable.

for a comparision.. The Australian Governement put up $5m US to buy Qantas's first Boeing 707 from Southend, UK, restored it for to fly worthy condition, for a dozen or so flights and flew it to Australia.

So given the availability of 707 Skills and parts.. $5mn did it, for the CV880.. highly skilled, and shortage or parts.. it's got to cost a lot more.

I believe there is a CV880/990 preserved in Switzerland, Luzern, as a restaurant on a Spanish Island, Gracetown at Elvis's place and isnt their one preserved at MHV as well ?

Ive seen the one in Luzern and the MHV examples. Whilst it's possible to buy the plane, making the dream happen is going to take a whole lot more.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
for a comparision.. The Australian Governement put up $5m US to buy Qantas's first Boeing 707 from Southend, UK, restored it for to fly worthy condition, for a dozen or so flights and flew it to Australia.

Oh really, then why did the Government press release say they they had donated $1m Australian?

Hmm?

However, they did say it took 50,000 man hours, fuel donations from Shell, contractors donating the labour time (but not the parts of course), plus volunteers to get the plane into the air... and this aircraft hadn't flown for 6 years, unlike the Convairs.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
I believe there is a CV880/990 preserved in Switzerland, Luzern, as a restaurant on a Spanish Island, Gracetown at Elvis's place and isnt their one preserved at MHV as well ?

Yes, a Swissair one in Switzerland. It would be nice to have that TWA one preserved though, because the interior is still intact. A crying shame if you ask me - I bet if TWA were around they would have donated the cash!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:07 am

Why the need to restore and celebrate a failure?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
rikkus67
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping..PLEASE!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:22 am

Ok everybody...

I am playing the national (thrice weekly) lottery tonight, with a $14M CDN jackpot tonight.... wish me luck... rotfl 

Wouldn't it be interesting if we actually SERIOUSLY started a fund to purchase these aircraft? Question is...how would we collect the $$$? Do a paypal type site (via eBay??)?

With a week left (or so) until the scrapping.... this is critical. Maybe she will never fly again, but wouldn't it be great to at least have a PROPER static display??
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
Why the need to restore and celebrate a failure?

Would you propose to scrap the last remaining de Havilland
Comet 1? Not exactly a success...but it's historic nonetheless.



Preservation does not imply celebration. Museums are full of artifacts that are quite mundane yet notable for educational or historical value. As another poster noted above, the CV880 was the first jet type operated by several carriers, Alaska Airlines and Northeast Airlines being notable. It was the airplane that ended Convair's participation in the commerical market, and was at the core of the business misadventure that separated Howard Hughes from TWA. It has historical value.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1471
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 30):
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
I believe there is a CV880/990 preserved in Switzerland, Luzern, as a restaurant on a Spanish Island, Gracetown at Elvis's place and isnt their one preserved at MHV as well ?

Yes, a Swissair one in Switzerland. It would be nice to have that TWA one preserved though, because the interior is still intact. A crying shame if you ask me - I bet if TWA were around they would have donated the cash!

The SR aircraft, the MHV aircraft, and the Spanish restaurant are all 990s. Only the Elvis aircraft is an 880.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 33):
Would you propose to scrap the last remaining de Havilland
Comet 1? Not exactly a success...but it's historic nonetheless

The Comet 1 was the first commercial jet-powered aircraft.

The Convair 880 isn't anything special. The 990 was faster. It was introduced after the 707 and DC-8. It only sold 65.

The historic value of the 880 is minimal. There are at least 50 other aircraft which should be higher up on the list of aircraft that should be preserved.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:52 am

why doesnt the the guy who owns it, scrap the 990 andthe cockpit and use the money to keep the 880 ?

If he's selling because he cannot afford to keep them where they are, this would breathe longer life into it.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):
The historic value of the 880 is minimal. There are at least 50 other aircraft which should be higher up on the list of aircraft that should be preserved.

I agree with you, except that I would never discourage anyone from making the effort. There is no harm done by saving a CV880.

Care to name those 50 other aircraft that you would place higher? One caveat: name those that could be saved, not those you wish had been saved.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):
The Convair 880 isn't anything special. The 990 was faster. It was introduced after the 707 and DC-8. It only sold 65.

By that logic, there should be no VC10s preserved either - and there are several preserved. I for one would hate to not be able to go and see a VC10 in a museum.

Get my drift? I'd also one day like to get on board an 880 with an original TWA interior rather than an exec jet for Elvis.

Quoting Stargoldlhr (Reply 36):
why doesnt the the guy who owns it, scrap the 990 andthe cockpit and use the money to keep the 880 ?

He can keep the 880 - he just can't afford the parking fees that are being charged month by month by month. It's a shame the airport won't give the guy a break and waive the fees in the hopes that someone, someday, will be able to preserve the aircraft.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
DH106
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:32 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 34):
and the Spanish restaurant are all 990s

There's a derelict but complete 990 still at Palma, and 2x 990 forward fuselages used for cabin training on the Spanish mainland, but I wasn't aware of a Spanish 990 restaurant. Where is this, and which 990 ?
...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6409
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
believe there is a CV880/990 preserved in Switzerland, Luzern,

Yes, a Swissair CV990 is on display in beautiful and complete condition at the Verkehrsmuseum (traffic museum) in Luzern. I have seen it there.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
and God only knows what it would take to get one of these flying

Forget flying it! Just having a couple preserved would be great.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 30):
It would be nice to have that TWA one preserved though, because the interior is still intact.

As is the Swissair 990 in Lucern.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
Why the need to restore and celebrate a failure?

I think you're confusing this site with http://www.grumpy-airline-accountants.com.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):
The historic value of the 880 is minimal. There are at least 50 other aircraft which should be higher up on the list of aircraft that should be preserved.

No-one suggested the 880 should be the only aircraft preserved.  sarcastic 

It's being discussed here and now because of the E-bay episode. There are dozens of aircraft that are fondly remembered that didn't have a monumental impact on aviation as a whole, such as...

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 38):
I for one would hate to not be able to go and see a VC10 in a museum.

Good example.  Smile
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):
The Convair 880 isn't anything special. The 990 was faster. It was introduced after the 707 and DC-8. It only sold 65

There as only about 37 CV-990's built of the remainers there is only 5 airframes intact SN 2,29 in MHV 24 in ELP, 30 in PMI and 12 in Switzerland( interesting thing is sn#12 is not the real #12,that airframe was used for testing and was scrapped by Convair, the one in Switzerland is a late airframe reissued SN#12) The rest of the 990's are pieces.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 34):
The SR aircraft, the MHV aircraft, and the Spanish restaurant are all 990s

There used to be a restaurant of a 990 in Denver but the airframe was scrapped.

Of the 880's the only remainers are SN#1 a cockpit in ATL painted in Delta, the airframe never flew Delta colors only Convair house colors N801TW and TWA as N871TW, SN#23 and 35 in Mojave, 23 flew in Northeast and TWA, #3 and #13 in ACY #3 flew in Convair house colors and TWA, #38 in MEM flew Delta and Elvis #21 which flew as Delta and now is a Titty Bar(best use a 880 I can see) and there is a 880 in South Africa as a house and there is rumour that #17 is in PAP as a freighter.

Just a bit of useless information.

Maybe if Team Convair had the money we wouldn't be having this debate about saving or not saving the 880's and there value in History. Hell the HK-1 only flew one mile and it was saved even after Disney gave up the lease on it, Some of you may not think the 880 is worth saving and that is your opinion some of us think it is worth saving.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
SEPilot
Posts: 4919
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 42):
Hell the HK-1 only flew one mile and it was saved even after Disney gave up the lease on it

I would consider the HK-1 (which I have seen-quite impressive) historical in the same sense as the world's largest ball of twine. That said, the fact that someone came up with the money to preserve it is fine, but I wouldn't shed a tear if they didn't. Pretty much the same feelings about the 880, although I will concede that it beats the ball of twine.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:49 am

Hell they saved a Dassault Mercure for display well almost everyone that flew(only 12 made) and they where nothing more than a french built 737 and they where a failure to some like the 880/990

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
bennett123
Posts: 7426
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:21 pm

Suppose we get $100 x 950, what then.

David
 
bagoldex
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

RE: Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please

Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 45):
Suppose we get $100 x 950, what then.

You then have a completely useless old plane that you are going to have to pay to store, transport and restore, so that 95k is just a tiny deposit. I would give that money to a cause that actually benefits people in need.

Who is online