Flying-Tiger
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Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:36 pm

Quote:
EADS unit Airbus said it has won a firm order from US carrier Spirit Airlines for 30 A319 planes, to be delivered between 2009 and 2013.

The catalogue price for the order totals 1.8 bln usd, but discounts are usually applied.

In 2004, Airbus sold 15 planes to Spirit, which had options to purchase an additional 50 planes within the A320 family of single-aisle jets.

http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/23200710270.htm

Seems that the A319 fits their business model quite well. More routes to the Caribbean coming it seems...

[Edited 2007-01-23 15:37:45]
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RichardPrice
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RE: Spirit Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:38 pm

 
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scbriml
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Finalised in 2006

Interesting, because it doesn't show up in Airbus's O&D spreadsheet for 2006. scratchchin 

However, I think this order takes the A32x family to 5,000 sales. champagne 
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:49 pm

Hopefully some of the flights to the Caribbean will be out of DTW.
 
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 2):
Interesting, because it doesn't show up in Airbus's O&D spreadsheet for 2006.

Indeed, there were only a few A319s listed as undisclosed orders. Here's the list of undisclosed orders for december 2006. The 30 A319s fit nowhere.

Undisclosed 5x A320
Undisclosed 3x A319, 7x A320, 5x A332
Undisclosed 9x A319, 18x A320
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WINGS
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Finalised in 2006, IAE V2500 engines.

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/...leases/20070123_airbus_spirit.html

Hi RichardPrice, I have serious doubts about this order being placed last year. If one is to take a look at the order spread sheet, it does not show any order for 30 x A319's.

Currently Airbus lists 3 undisclosed orders, with none matching with what was announced today.

29/12/2006 3x A319, 7x A320, 5x A332

28/12/2006 9x A319, 18x A320

07/12/2006 5x A320


It is for this reason that I suspect that this is indeed a new order. It may have been finalised late last year, but only signed now.

Regards,
Wings
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:56 pm

Per my understanding and German press reports it has been finalized in late 2006 but for accounting reasons it will be booked in 2007 only.

Now, before our American friends start dancing the one-legged limbo: so far we don´t know if this step was taken because Airbus wanted it this way, or because Spirit wanted it this way. It may well be the latter as they might only have to show this in the 2007 figures and not their 2006´s.
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RichardPrice
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):

Hi RichardPrice, I have serious doubts about this order being placed last year. If one is to take a look at the order spread sheet, it does not show any order for 30 x A319's.

The Airbus press release I linked to says it was finalised in 2006, its not my wording  Smile

Quote:

Spirit Airlines has placed a firm order for 30 A319s, bringing its total Airbus order to 44 (37 A319s and seven A321s). The deal was finalized in late 2006.
 
quickmover
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:56 pm

Good for them, but I thought their cash was tight right now. Those $9 fares must be a good loss leader.
 
EI321
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:36 am

So this goes into 2006 or 2007 orders? Speaking of which, where is the new 2007 orders thread?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
So this goes into 2006 or 2007 orders?

2006 orders have been announced and the Spirit order isn't included. My guess is we're talking 2007 here. wink 
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WINGS
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:59 am

AIRBUS ORDER/COMMITMENTS 2007.

Air Asia 50 x A320
Spirit Airlines 30 x A320
Guggenheim 6 x A332F
Intrepid 20 x A332F
Flyington 6 x A332F

Total: 112 frames


Watch out Boeing, Airbus is coming back strong.

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Wings
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RL757PVD
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:03 am

Id love to see them bring back PVD-DTW, and then perhaps do something like
DTW-PVD-SJU/Carib
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RichardPrice
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 11):
AIRBUS ORDER/COMMITMENTS 2007.

Air Asia 50 x A320
Spirit Airlines 30 x A320
Guggenheim 6 x A332F
Intrepid 20 x A332F
Flyington 6 x A332F

Total: 112 frames

Watch out Boeing, Airbus is coming back strong.

Heh famous last words, we may not see another Airbus order for 9 months  Wink
 
EvilForce
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:22 am

I think the AirAsia folks are finalizing a 20 to 25 A330 order and should be announcing it in the next week or two.

In any event, Airbus is off to a roaring start for 2007. Congrats!
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osiris30
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 6):
Now, before our American friends start dancing the one-legged limbo: so far we don´t know if this step was taken because Airbus wanted it this way, or because Spirit wanted it this way.

Wow.. are you really that out of touch.. Accounting is not based on whether someone 'wants it that way'. Account clearly defines when an order is an order and therefore should be booked.

Having said that if the paperwork wasn't signed until this year but the deal was agreed to in late 06, then it's a 2007 order. It's all about when pen met paper.
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WINGS
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):

Heh famous last words, we may not see another Airbus order for 9 months

Ohh yes we will.  Wink Don't worry the waiting won't be long. Wink

Regards,
Wings
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EvilForce
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:28 am

At the end of the day, DELIVERIES are what matters most to accounting folks.

Order books are volatile beasts if a recession hits, or a large customer defers aircraft for whatever reason.
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 15):
Having said that if the paperwork wasn't signed until this year but the deal was agreed to in late 06, then it's a 2007 order. It's all about when pen met paper.

What I said but in other words...
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 11):
Watch out Boeing, Airbus is coming back strong.

The more important part is there is a solid A330 (widebody) booking independent of the A380 situation..this is something which I like to see....lets hope Airbus could keep it up this year...
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
The more important part is there is a solid A330 (widebody) booking independent of the A380 situation..this is something which I like to see....lets hope Airbus could keep it up this year...

 checkmark  and in small orders too, so the margin is good... these big 20+ plane orders usually carry a pretty significant discount and at the end of the day, given the problems Airbus is having with the Euro, probably hurt as much as they help Airbus.
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EvilForce
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 20):
and in small orders too, so the margin is good... these big 20+ plane orders usually carry a pretty significant discount and at the end of the day,
But usually aren't these 5, 6, or 8 aircraft orders usually an airline exercising a portion of their options? Those options already have pricing set based on the original order no?

[Edited 2007-01-23 17:44:32]
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 21):
But usually aren't these 5, 6, or 8 aircraft orders usually an airline exercising a portion of their options?

Not in the case of these A330F orders.
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 20):
these big 20+ plane orders usually carry a pretty significant discount and at the end of the day

OTOH these large unit orders allow the OEMs - be it Boeing, be it Airbus - to produce their planes in large quantities and drive down the amount of fixed costs which need to be attached to each frame produced. With only small orders you can only produce a small series - expensive. So you basically need some large orders to bring down production costs, but you want to have several smaller orders, which bring in the profit.
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osiris30
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 21):
But usually aren't these 5, 6, or 8 aircraft orders usually an airline exercising a portion of their options? Those options already have pricing set based on the original order no?

No and not always. These 330F orders would be a good example. Additionally there are lots of 5-6-8 plane orders on both books that are not options. (748F and 380 for example).

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 23):
With only small orders you can only produce a small series - expensive.

?? 5 orders at 6 planes each is 30 planes.. 1 order at 30 planes is 30 planes..

The former has MUCH higher margins, even if you include the extra sales and legal costs. With the exception of the 380 most aircraft have a set number of options you can chose as a purchaser so extra costs are pretty much irrelevant.
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flyCMH
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:10 am

I would love to know where Spirit plans on placing all these new airframes. I think it's safe to say more Caribbean expansion is on the way, but I was under the impression that space in FLL is already tight as it is. How much more can they expand in FLL without seriously impacting their, and other airlines', operational integrity?

Besides FLL, their route map is a hodgepodge. I'm surprised their ATL-Florida runs have lasted this long, and their ATL-LAS nonstop took me by surprise as well. I guess we could see growth in their DTW operation, especially with a brand new terminal on the way with extra gate space. They seem to be doing well in the ACY and MYR markets, maybe they could see some new routing as well.
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 20):
these big 20+ plane orders usually carry a pretty significant discount and at the end of the day, given the problems Airbus is having with the Euro, probably hurt as much as they help Airbus.

I guess Airbus wouldn't prefer not getting such an order.


PH
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NADC10Fan
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:28 am

Grats all around on the Spirit Airbuses! I've taken some of those flights, and they're not bad, quite comfortable. Spirit Plus on a 'Bus was quite nice!

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 25):
I would love to know where Spirit plans on placing all these new airframes. I think it's safe to say more Caribbean expansion is on the way, but I was under the impression that space in FLL is already tight as it is. How much more can they expand in FLL without seriously impacting their, and other airlines', operational integrity?

Well, remember, plans are underway to expand the terminal facilities at FLL, and especially the facilities Spirit currently operates from. Not sure how that ties into the woes getting the runway upgraded present, but hopefully they will move forward at least with the terminal upgrades.

Quote:
Besides FLL, their route map is a hodgepodge. I'm surprised their ATL-Florida runs have lasted this long, and their ATL-LAS nonstop took me by surprise as well. I guess we could see growth in their DTW operation, especially with a brand new terminal on the way with extra gate space. They seem to be doing well in the ACY and MYR markets, maybe they could see some new routing as well.

You're correct, of course ... but what I'd like to see is the addition of some markets from FLL, in the central part of the 'States - like CMH and IND in particular. I'd like to hope that FLL could support travel to those markets.
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osiris30
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 26):
I guess Airbus wouldn't prefer not getting such an order.

Save the sarcasm PH and add some value. I never said Airbus would prefer to not get such an order. I was merely stating these big orders are closer to net neutral from a good news/bad news perspective.. especially on a narrow body product.

Some of us enjoy discusing BUSINESS here rather than rampant pom-pom waiving.. if you can't accept the fact that this order likely has sub-optimal margins, and increases risk of EU exposure for a relatively weak return that's not my problem.
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scbriml
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 28):
if you can't accept the fact that this order likely has sub-optimal margins

In another thread Astuteman (I think) produced an in-depth analysis of both Airbus and Boeing's sales and profits and concluded that the margins on narrowbody sales are a whole lot better than many people here believe.

I'll have a search and see if I can find it...
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osiris30
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
In another thread Astuteman (I think) produced an in-depth analysis of both Airbus and Boeing's sales and profits and concluded that the margins on narrowbody sales are a whole lot better than many people here believe.

Saw that thread. Narrowbody margins are likely better than most here think. The problem is, again, like I said, the margins on these LARGER orders are sub-optimal. Customer's get a volume discount, but in reality there are no economies of scale to be had for the manufacturer. The same exact thing is the case for Boeing. Both manufacturers are already at the peak of the economies of scale for their narrowbody product lines with respect to the variable costs. Both should have fully covered and accounted for the R&D on these projects LONG ago.

Airbus (or Boeing) would make substantially more money on 6 orders for 5 planes each than 1 order for 30 planes. And don't even get me started on the 150 aircraft order for China that everyone must know what sold for peanuts (compared to the normal margin on such aircraft).
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 28):
I never said Airbus would prefer to not get such an order. I was merely stating these big orders are closer to net neutral from a good news/bad news perspective.. especially on a narrow body product.

The suggestion was "big orders probably hurt as much as they help"...

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 20):
these big 20+ plane orders usually carry a pretty significant discount and at the end of the day, given the problems Airbus is having with the Euro, probably hurt as much as they help Airbus.

...which is an exaggerated statement. It's very likely Airbus makes a profit with that order - or are there any indications that they easyJet-ly granted an abnormal discount ? The demand for A32X aircraft is enormous, there's no need to give them away. It's very likely Airbus prefers getting a 20+ order over getting none.

I guess there's always a way to find a negative aspect about an order, no matter if an airline orders a single frame, 20 or 200...  Wink

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 28):

Some of us enjoy discusing BUSINESS here rather than rampant pom-pom waiving.. if you can't accept the fact that this order likely has sub-optimal margins, and increases risk of EU exposure for a relatively weak return that's not my problem.

 Yeah sure


PH
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MAH4546
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 25):
I would love to know where Spirit plans on placing all these new airframes. I think it's safe to say more Caribbean expansion is on the way, but I was under the impression that space in FLL is already tight as it is. How much more can they expand in FLL without seriously impacting their, and other airlines', operational integrity?

They are working with FLL to expand and redesign Terminal 4, of which they will be the primary occupant. The T4 redesign is being designed for Spirit's needs.

As for where they are going...more domestic markets, obviously, but Spirit also plans on going even more south. The A319s have the range to make ti to Lima.

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 25):
I'm surprised their ATL-Florida runs have lasted this long, and their ATL-LAS nonstop took me by surprise as well.

Atlanta has performed exceptionally well for them. I would not have given the Atlanta routes much of a chance, but they've done very well in the market. And remember, the Atlanta flights use planes that would otherwise be sitting on the ground.
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osiris30
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 31):
The suggestion was "big orders probably hurt as much as they help"...

Ya.. they do.. I stand by what I said.. bearing in my that what you read is a common 'saying' in this part of the world. If you want to take it literally and debate it to death go ahead.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 31):
It's very likely Airbus makes a profit with that order - or are there any indications that they easyJet-ly granted an abnormal discount ?

Where did I ever say Airbus didn't make a profit on those order PH. You are being difficult for the sake of being difficult and really aren't contributing butt-kiss here. Observe:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 30):
The problem is, again, like I said, the margins on these LARGER orders are sub-optimal.



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 28):
you can't accept the fact that this order likely has sub-optimal margins, and increases risk of EU exposure for a relatively weak return that's not my problem.



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 24):
?? 5 orders at 6 planes each is 30 planes.. 1 order at 30 planes is 30 planes..

The former has MUCH higher margins, even if you include the extra sales and legal costs. With the exception of the 380 most aircraft have a set number of options you can chose as a purchaser so extra costs are pretty much irrelevant.

How many times do I need to talk about profit margins being sub-optimal before you clue in and realize that by saying there I'm inferring there are infact profit margins there!!!

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 31):
It's very likely Airbus prefers getting a 20+ order over getting none.

Again, as I said in my last reply to you... I never said they didn't.

Stop arguing with me that I'm arguing something I'm not.
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F9Animal
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:17 am

This is great news. This is a good sign that Spirit has confidence in its future. I have no doubt that they will be successful. I am glad to see them grow, and I wish them the best of luck!  Smile
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atct
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:19 am

Any idea if they'll serve IAH/HOU? With the cruise market growing out of the Ports of Houston and Galveston, we could use some more service to the east. Not to mention a city fo 4 million people, alot of them would be goin to the caribbean on vacation.


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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 33):
bearing in my that what you read is a common 'saying' in this part of the world.

In Barbados? Ah, I see...in other parts of the world it would probably be translated "if anything hurts as much as it helps, better keep your hands off..."


PH
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Corsair1107
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:25 am

wish they'd give US some competition on the DCA-MYR route. loads are probably nowhere near worth using an A319 though...
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 33):
How many times do I need to talk about profit margins being sub-optimal before you clue in and realize that by saying there I'm inferring there are infact profit margins there!!!

Gelt ist gelt. A buck is a buck.

Even if you are correct, that the profit margins are "sub-optimal", they're still a profit.

???

mariner
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ScottB
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Atlanta has performed exceptionally well for them. I would not have given the Atlanta routes much of a chance, but they've done very well in the market.

From DoT's numbers, the loads have been running in the 60-75% range on NK's ATL-FLL. I'm not sure if I'd call that performing "exceptionally well," but it's also hard to know what sort of yields they're getting, since they're under the 10% market share needed for them to show up in the Consumer Air Fare Report.

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 25):
They seem to be doing well in the ACY and MYR markets

ACY is seeing better yields on Florida flights than PHL is these days, thanks to WN being at PHL.

I have to wonder if they're finding the A321 a bit too large for most of their routes, since they chose not to add any of that type in this order.
 
osiris30
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
Gelt ist gelt. A buck is a buck.

Even if you are correct, that the profit margins are "sub-optimal", they're still a profit.

Yes, but they are now slots on the line taken away from potential more lucrative orders. I'm not debating Airbus made money on them.. all I said.. ALL I SAID to start this was that it was nice to see the smaller 330 orders because the larger 320 orders likely carry a lower profit margin and given Airbus's issues with the Euro and their exposure to it, they carry a higher risk.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
???

Sorry I missed the question there. Usually people put those funny little squiggly marks AFTER some words  Wink
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
Even if you are correct, that the profit margins are "sub-optimal", they're still a profit.

 checkmark 


PH
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leelaw
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 40):
Yes, but they are now slots on the line taken away from potential more lucrative orders. I'm not debating Airbus made money on them.. all I said.. ALL I SAID to start this was that it was nice to see the smaller 330 orders because the larger 320 orders likely carry a lower profit margin and given Airbus's issues with the Euro and their exposure to it, they carry a higher risk.

If the profit's from this and other narrowbody sales transactions are indeed "sub-optimal," it amplifies rather than mitigates the larger looming problem of declining earnings contribution from widebody sales:

Quote:
"...No doubt, the Ebit contribution from twin-aisles will start to diminish from 2010," says Olivier Andries, head of strategy at Airbus...

...Airbus executives say they still see ways to mitigate the looming profit slump. For one, rising deliveries of smaller planes will boost income...


See: "Airbus Wide-Body Slump Portends New Headaches"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116827800448070351.html
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B6WNQX
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:29 am

Not to be rude but isn't this thread about Spirit ordering more planes and not how profitable Airbus is on selling narrowbodies?

Back to the topic:

Congrats to Spirit for the order, and as ScottB pointed out, it is very interesting that they didn't order any more A321's. Could they be just too large or are they focusing on the A319's because of the range capabilities to fly further south as MAH4546 noted.  scratchchin 
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:49 am

It would be ncie if they could split the banks at FLL

1st bank = carib
2nd Bank = Evening/redeye latin AM


This would allow for an entire latin am expansion without needing any new facilities at FLL.
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gbfra
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 15):
It's all about when pen met paper.

It's all about the date you find on top of the contract. An outsider will never know if pen met paper before that date.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 20):
and in small orders too, so the margin is good... these big 20+ plane orders usually carry a pretty significant discount and at the end of the day, given the problems Airbus is having with the Euro, probably hurt as much as they help Airbus.



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 30):
And don't even get me started on the 150 aircraft order for China that everyone must know what sold for peanuts (compared to the normal margin on such aircraft).

I bet you haven't seen any of these contracts.

As for the currency risk: Have a look at wiki and you might find an entry called "hedging".

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 42):
If the profit's from this and other narrowbody sales transactions are indeed "sub-optimal," it amplifies rather than mitigates the larger looming problem of declining earnings contribution from widebody sales:

Aha. A profit from narrowbodies (be it "sub-optimal", as long as it is a profit) amplifies the problem from declining earnings from widebodies? Why don't you take a refresher course in math?
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
leelaw
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 45):
A profit from narrowbodies (be it "sub-optimal", as long as it is a profit) amplifies the problem from declining earnings from widebodies?

It's doubtful you'll make-up for the earnings decline from higher margin widebody sales, by posting "sub-optimal" profits from much lower margin narrowbody sales. Wouldn't that amplify rather than mitigate the underlying problem?
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EvilForce
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:22 am

Only on A.net can an order worth $ 1 billion be considered possible bad news for a manufacturer. Unbelievable.
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 46):
It's doubtful you'll make-up for the earnings decline from higher margin widebody sales, by posting "sub-optimal" profits from much lower margin narrowbody sales.

I'm confused - are you saying that Airbus should have walked away from the sale?

If you are not saying that, then I can only agree with B6WNQX in post #43.

mariner
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flyCMH
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RE: Spirit Airlines Takes 30 A319

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 39):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Atlanta has performed exceptionally well for them. I would not have given the Atlanta routes much of a chance, but they've done very well in the market.

From DoT's numbers, the loads have been running in the 60-75% range on NK's ATL-FLL. I'm not sure if I'd call that performing "exceptionally well," but it's also hard to know what sort of yields they're getting, since they're under the 10% market share needed for them to show up in the Consumer Air Fare Report.

Interesting information. Granted, 60-75% load factors aren't incredible, and with Delta, AirTran, and America West/USAirways being the dominant carriers on the routes from ATL, I'd imagine their yields can't be that great, being the bottom-feeder in the market. However, as MAH4546 pointed out, if the aircraft used in ATL would otherwise be sitting idle, it might be enough for Spirit to find the routes profitable.

Also, it sounds like the terminal facilities will be able to cope with a significant Spirit expansion, which is good. Hopefully a solution can be found and executed in regards to the actual airfield constraints that could slow future growth.

Quoting NADC10Fan (Reply 27):
You're correct, of course ... but what I'd like to see is the addition of some markets from FLL, in the central part of the 'States - like CMH and IND in particular. I'd like to hope that FLL could support travel to those markets.

You and me both. I was hoping Spirit's arrival in PVD would signal an attempt at serving more medium-sized cities from Florida and other warm weather destinations. I would love to see them here in Columbus. With as much traffic that travels between Central Ohio and Southeastern Florida, American Eagle's 44-seat ERD to MIA and Delta Connection's 50-seat ER4 to FLL seem just a little lacking.
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