HeavyMX1
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Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:10 am

http://pressroom.airtran.com/phoenix...wsArticle&ID=953126&highlight=

AirTran Seeks Court Order to Compel Midwest to Release Shareholder List Following Midwest's Refusal to Comply with State Statute
- New York Supreme Court Orders Midwest to Show Cause for Why It Should Not Release Midwest Shareholder List to AirTran -

ORLANDO, Fla., Jan. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), the parent company of AirTran Airways, said today that the management of Midwest Air Group Inc. (Amex: MEH) is attempting to thwart AirTran from communicating directly with the Midwest shareholders about its offer to merge the two airlines by refusing to comply with a New York State Law (Section 1315 of the Business Corporation Law), which requires Midwest to release its shareholder list to AirTran. As a result, AirTran has asked that the New York State Supreme Court direct Midwest to show cause as to why it does not have to comply with the New York Law. The Court has set a hearing on the action for January 30, 2007, at 11:00 AM.

AirTran said it is disappointed that Midwest is attempting to block AirTran from communicating with Midwest shareholders. AirTran is concerned that this is consistent with a pattern of intransigence in which the Midwest management and board has failed to provide transparency about the benefits of the merger to its shareholders, employees and the communities it serves since AirTran first presented its offer to Midwest on October 20, 2006. Midwest management has also refused to meet directly with AirTran in order to explore the benefits that such a merger could bring to the Midwest stakeholders.

AirTran, having taken its proposal directly to the Midwest owners by initiating an exchange offer, is urging shareholders to question why Midwest's management continues to restrict the flow of information to its owners if it is so confident that its independent standalone plan would deliver more value to the Midwest shareholders than the AirTran proposal.

AirTran also noted that just this morning a well respected airline financial analyst from Calyon Securities commented, "We believe Midwest faces an uncertain future as a stand-alone carrier" noting its years of losses and its limited ability to modernize and expand and the serious threat posed by an "invigorated Northwest Airlines" refocusing its attention on Milwaukee. Midwest's shareholders have a right to demand more from the Company than defensive legal maneuvering to interfere with the free flow of critical information.

"As owners of the airline, Midwest shareholders have a right to full and complete information about AirTran's $13.25 exchange offer, which represents a premium of 61% over the thirty day average closing price of Midwest common stock at the time of AirTran's October 20, 2006, proposal and an approximately 46 percent premium over the closing price on the December 13, 2006, date that AirTran disclosed its October 20, 2006, offer. The offer also offers shareholders a stake in a combined airline that will be stronger and more competitive. The two airlines have complementary routes and fleets, with the potential to grow at an expedited rate and generate an estimated $60 million in annual revenue synergies. AirTran strongly believes this is a level of growth that far exceeds what Midwest can accomplish under its standalone plan and that Midwest's standalone plan leaves the company exceedingly vulnerable to competition to the detriment of its shareholders, employees and the Milwaukee community," AirTran said.

"While we believe it is unfortunate that AirTran has been forced to bring this matter to a court of law, we intend to pursue this matter expeditiously as it is imperative that the Midwest shareholders be given the right to review AirTran's offer and choose for themselves the best course of action for their company," the company concluded.

Shareholder questions regarding the exchange offer or requests for offering materials should be directed to Innisfree M&A Incorporated at (877) 456-3422. (Banks and Brokers may call collect at (212) 750-5833.) Offering materials are also available on the SEC's website at http://www.sec.gov. Midwest shareholders are urged to read the offering materials filed by AirTran, which contain important information about the exchange offer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I guess this is being pursued in NY because of the NYSE.

[Edited 2007-01-23 20:18:17]
I am better than you because I live on an Island
 
airtran737
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 am

This is going to get nasty, and it's going to get nasty fast.



filler
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
flyorski
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:20 am

Hate to say it, but Bye Midwest........

We will miss you.....
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 2):
Hate to say it, but Bye Midwest........

And what would make you say that?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
vivavegas
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:23 am

Amusing the "Adsense" ads on this page features one for -

"Keep Midwest My Midwest
Keep AirTran out of the Midwest cookie jar!
www.keepmidwestmymidwest.com"

Who would be funding these ads? Hmmm....

Craig
MKE
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:37 am

I wonder if going to court would be enough to trigger the poison pill. FL will only pay so much. Does anyone know if once the poison pill is triggered, if it can be reversed?
 
HeavyMX1
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
wonder if going to court would be enough to trigger the poison pill.

The poison pill would not go into effect until FL obtained a certain amount of YX shares. The court action should not have any bearing on it.
I am better than you because I live on an Island
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:46 am

Just speculation here, but if FL needs a shareholder list, they must not feel confident about having a controling number of YX shares yet.
 
rumorboy
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:54 am

I just don't get it. If YX is so confident that their business plan is superior to Airtran's why not release the info. Let the shareholders decide. Sounds like some ego's are starting to get in the way. Not good for either side. Besides all Airtran is asking is to talk to the shareholders. Nothing more.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
This is going to get nasty, and it's going to get nasty fast.

It's not already?

It's certainly one thing to question another's plan, but it's entirely another to accuse another of deliberate withholding of information of said plan for people to make prudent decisions.

Yikes!
-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
HeavyMX1
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 9):
It's certainly one thing to question another's plan, but it's entirely another to accuse another of deliberate withholding of information of said plan for people to make prudent decisions.

If YX is obligated to disclose this info and havent, they are deliberatly withholding information. If thats they case I dont see any "nastiness" on FL behalf, rather I see it coming from YX. But we shall not know until it goes to court so all this is just speculation for now.
I am better than you because I live on an Island
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:15 am

To me, if AirTran really wanted to prove that they were going to sacrafice MKE, they would have already started adding flights to MKE.. to some of those destiantions that they stated they would start.. but they have done nothing.. and this just seems like a sort of temper tantrum because Midwest hasn't just bowed to them and sold out.

I'm not saying if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but the best way to prove to someone that you mean what you say.. is to go ahead and do what it is that you say.. so far, AirTran is a bunch of talk and not much action..

But that's just my opinion and take it with a grain of salt if you want..
Aiming High and going far..
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:24 am

ERJ170, not to get off topic, but one of those cities on your "now seeking" list will be in the schedules during the first week of February.  Wink
 
HeavyMX1
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
I'm not saying if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but the best way to prove to someone that you mean what you say.. is to go ahead and do what it is that you say.. so far, AirTran is a bunch of talk and not much action..

Why would FL take on the added expense of doing that, Thats why they want YX because they are already establised there.
I am better than you because I live on an Island
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting HeavyMx1 (Reply 13):
Why would FL take on the added expense of doing that,

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought that was one of their selling points.. that they were going to add service. I think they need to be proactive to convince the Board that they actually mean what they say..

But maybe I'm just a bit off and don't understand things.. could be the case.. no smart @ss comments, please..  Smile
Aiming High and going far..
 
Corsair2
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:36 am

1. There is no need for an additional 60 737s to be flying out of either MKE or MCI. If there were demand, they (YX) would have done it years ago since they know these markets best. Midwest has a much more realistic 10% per annum growth plan. YX is not a low fare airline that wants to be everything to everyone.
2. AirTran's stock has been steadily falling over the last year below the S&P 500 average and that of the entire airline industry. Their profit on the east coast in being eroded by competition from Southwest and JetBlue and FL is in trouble - the stockholder's know this and would prefer YX stock over FL stock.
3. What does a New York Law have to do with Midwest or AirTran given that both of these businesses are not incorporated in the State of New York?
"We have clearance Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector Victor?"
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:39 am

Take the planes, and run to Stl
i can see for 80 miles
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 15):
YX is not a low fare airline that wants to be everything to everyone.

I disagree. That is, this statement used to be true. The level of service was a first class seat with a hot meal served with china. Of course, I understand that market forces have religated the diminishing of this service, but my point is the inconsistency that now exists:

* first class seats (Signature Service)
* 328 RJ service (current Midwest Connect RJ operation)
* 1900 prop service (current Midwest Connect prop operation)
* coach class seats (Saver Service)
* CRJ service (new SkyWest RJ operation)

Not all things to all people? Again, I disagree. And it's diluting what's made YX special.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
Mainland
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 15):
3. What does a New York Law have to do with Midwest or AirTran given that both of these businesses are not incorporated in the State of New York?

I'd imagine they're exploiting the law on the basis that there are shareholders in New York....but I'm no lawyer.
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
steeler83
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 17):
The level of service was a first class seat with a hot meal served with china. Of course, I understand that market forces have religated the diminishing of this service, but my point is the inconsistency that now exists:

* first class seats (Signature Service)
* 328 RJ service (current Midwest Connect RJ operation)
* 1900 prop service (current Midwest Connect prop operation)
* coach class seats (Saver Service)
* CRJ service (new SkyWest RJ operation)

Not all things to all people? Again, I disagree. And it's diluting what's made YX special.

Yeah, all of that will vanish as we know it. If this diabolical disgraceful thing goes through, this will be another airline I vow never to fly...  no  no  no 

Long live Midwest Airlines!  yes  yes  yes 

If it goes through, remind me to buy a PIT-MCI-PIT routing very quickly so that I can experience my one and only experience on signature service before it's gone for good!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:19 am

328 RJ service (current Midwest Connect RJ operation)
* 1900 prop service (current Midwest Connect prop operation

These will more than likely be tossed out,as this doesnt fit Fl,s mold
i can see for 80 miles
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
Yeah, all of that will vanish as we know it

You're right. It will be replaced with a consistent, albeit arguably lower, level of service. Except the cookies will apparently stay and be served to all post-merged-airline passengers. Consistently.

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 20):
These will more than likely be tossed out,as this doesnt fit Fl,s mold

They have commented publicly that some semblance of Midwest Connect will remain. However, I personally interpret that as a removal of those planes and the service therein (not to mention the SkyWest CRJs) and a reinvention of a connection service with new planes, i.e. "70 seat aircraft". [quoting Joe]

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
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JBo
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 17):
* first class seats (Signature Service)
* 328 RJ service (current Midwest Connect RJ operation)
* 1900 prop service (current Midwest Connect prop operation)
* coach class seats (Saver Service)
* CRJ service (new SkyWest RJ operation)

1900 prop service has been in place feeding Midwest operations since 1989 ... 5 years into the company's existence.

How does that dilute the product?

328JET service began in 1999.

How does that dilute the product?

You speak as though YX used to be nothing more than first class seats throughout the cabin and nothing else beyond that, and that all the points you list were recent changes within the past few years. The regional operation has always been an integral part of Midwest, ever since Mesa began operating the first 1900Cs under the Skyway name.

The ONLY "recent" change was the introduction of Saver service. Furthermore, the only differences between all of the above is the cabin atmosphere. The level of cabin service on all YX aircraft is at the same high standard across the board (at least on the jets, the 1900 of course lacks any form of cabin service). Just because two airlines operate the CRJ on a regional route does not make them equal. It's the people taking care of you in the air and on the ground that make the difference.

What makes YX special is NOT just the big cushy seats, it's also the customer service both in the air and on the ground - hence "The Best Care in the Air." Granted every airline has their bad apples, but nearly everyone I've encountered whose flown Midwest has never said our service was any worse than any other airline.

That altogether is what makes YX special, my friend.

Now, off the tangent...

I too am confused about the whole New York thing ... I too assume it's because of AirTran being listed on the NYSE and YX on the AMEX.

Can anyone confirm that?
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 21):
Except the cookies will apparently stay and be served to all post-merged-airline passengers.

Not on the 737's.
 
gigneil
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 15):
3. What does a New York Law have to do with Midwest or AirTran given that both of these businesses are not incorporated in the State of New York?

As a public company, you have to comply with the state laws of every state where you do business.

NS
 
Mainland
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:59 am

Pardon the length of this post -- quoting directly from NY State Business Corporation Law Section 1315:

"S 1315. Record of shareholders.
(a) Any resident of this state who shall have been a shareholder of
record of a foreign corporation doing business in this state upon at
least five days' written demand may require such foreign corporation to
produce a record of its shareholders setting forth the names and
addresses of all shareholders, the number and class of shares held by
each and the dates when they respectively became the owners of record
thereof and shall have the right to examine in person or by agent or
attorney at the office of the foreign corporation in this state or at
the office of its transfer agent or registrar in this state or at such
other place in the county in this state in which the foreign corporation
is doing business as may be designated by the foreign corporation,
during the usual business hours, the record of shareholders or an exact
copy thereof certified as correct by the corporate officer or agent
responsible for keeping or producing such record and to make extracts
therefrom....

....(b) An examination authorized by paragraph (a) may be denied to such
shareholder or other person upon his refusal to furnish to the foreign
corporation or its transfer agent or registrar an affidavit that such
inspection is not desired for a purpose which is in the interest of a
business or object other than the business of the foreign corporation
and that such shareholder or other person has not within five years sold
or offered for sale any list of shareholders of any corporation of any
type or kind, whether or not formed under the laws of this state, or
aided or abetted any person in procuring any such record of shareholders
for any such purpose.

(c) Upon refusal by the foreign corporation or by an officer or agent
of the foreign corporation to produce for examination or to permit an
examination of the record of shareholders as herein provided, the person
making the demand for production and examination may apply to the
supreme court in the judicial district where the office of the foreign
corporation within this state is located, upon such notice as the court
may direct, for an order directing the foreign corporation, its officer
or agent, to show cause why an order should not be granted directing
such production and permitting such examination by the applicant. Upon
the return day of the order to show cause, the court shall hear the
parties summarily, by affidavit or otherwise, and if it appears that the
applicant is qualified and entitled to such examination, the court shall
grant an order compelling such production for examination and awarding
such further relief as to the court may seem just and proper.

(d) Nothing herein contained shall impair the power of courts to
compel the production for examination of the books of a foreign
corporation. The record of shareholders specified in paragraph (a) shall
be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated in favor of the
plaintiff in any action or special proceeding against such foreign
corporation or any of its officers, directors or shareholders."


Edited out non-relevant parts, for full text go to the source:
http://www.garygauthier.com/corporationlaw13.htm

If I'm to understand this correctly, AirTran is utilizing part C to compel Midwest to open up the shareholder books. However, it would seem part B could give Midwest an out/a footing to argue that they don't need to disclose to AirTran. Anybody with more of a legal background, feel free to comment.
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
rumorboy
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 23):
Except the cookies will apparently stay and be served to all post-merged-airline passengers.

Not on the 737's.

Cookies will be served on ALL aircraft. Ovens will be fitted on the ones that do not have one.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 26):
Ovens will be fitted on the ones that do not have one.

Well that's good news. I thought they weren't going to install the ovens on the 73's. You learn something new everyday.
 
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knope2001
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 26):
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 23):
Except the cookies will apparently stay and be served to all post-merged-airline passengers.

Not on the 737's.

Cookies will be served on ALL aircraft. Ovens will be fitted on the ones that do not have one.

Where did you hear that?

How many million will that cost considering all their 737's and many of their 717's don't have ovens?

Do the 737's need bigger galley areas to do this?
 
sideflare75
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Mainland (Reply 25):
Pardon the length of this post -- quoting directly from NY State Business Corporation Law Section 1315:

It seems this only applies to a foreign corporation unless I am not reading it correctly. I know Wisconsin is not New York but it isn't foreign. Or is it???????
 
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knope2001
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 22):
You speak as though YX used to be nothing more than first class seats throughout the cabin and nothing else beyond that, and that all the points you list were recent changes within the past few years. The regional operation has always been an integral part of Midwest, ever since Mesa began operating the first 1900Cs under the Skyway name.

Very well-said JBo. The CRJ's are an almost freakish fixation by some that Midwest's level of service is going down the tubes. Of course none of us have yet to see how Midwest's CRJ service level exactly be, but they'll have the buy-onboard Best Care Cuisine and the cookies.

If Midwest's only real draw was the traditional Signature Service, then Midwest should have seen poor results for years with the Beechcraft and the FRJ's, and similarly the Saver markets should have suffered. None of that has happened.

There is a somewhat intangible higher level of overall service with Midwest, though any airline (including Midwest) can have service faults and bad experiences. Midwest tends to do a lot of little things better more often than competitors. For example, the flight attendents tend to make more passes through the cabin than competitors. Often (including just the other day) I've seen a drink pass, a food pass, a second drink pass, a cookie pass, and a coffee-or-water pass on a nearly full 717 on a flight under 2 hours. I flew this same market with a competitor not too long ago and we got a single pass with a drink (a cuplet, not the can) and that was it. Midwest holds for connections more than most airlines do, and a lot of airlines don't even seem to try to make sure close connections are watched for. I was stuck in a hub city overnight last fall because "sorry, the door is closed" six minutes prior to departure time because my inbound was delayed and arrived many gates away only 11 minutes before. My luggage made the connection too so I was totally SOL. I will never say that Midwest never has a service breakdown, but Midwest's reputation for good service goes beyond the nice seats on the 717.

For years Midwest used Skyway planes in markets right along side the DC9 and 717. Heck, before the RJ, several cities had some Beech 1900 flying mixed in with the DC9's (CMH, OMA, MSN, ATW, CLE, DSM, GRR, YYZ). And FRJ has at times flown certain daily trips from Milwaukee to Newark, Washington National and Philadelphia. In the past year or two they've also sent a mix of Saver and Signature on MKE-MCO, MKE-DEN and MKE-MCI. Over the past 15+ years, and especially the last five, there have been many iinstances when a single market saw differing aircraft and seating configurations.

Of course if Midwest flew 100% Signature-Service flights they'd probably have an even better reputation. And I'm not saying there will be zero unhappiness if your 740pm to Philadelphia is no longer a 717 but is instead a CRJ. But it's been almost 18 years since all of Midwest was 2x2 seating.

The changes coming in the next months actually include some improvements:

--Reduced and eliminated BE1 flying, so few and soon no Midwest passengers will ever be on an aircraft without a lavatory or flight attendent. Those BE1 are not limited to just backwater towns either, currently or recently seen in places like Louisville, Des Moines, Columbus, Indianapolis, Dayton and St Louis. Going to jets on those flights is huge.

--Better service on the CRJ versus the FRJ for longer routes. The cabin comfort might arguably be better on the FRJ (can't compare until the YX* planes come online, but they are both RJ's) but the FRJ doesn't have any food other than the cookies or morning kringle. The CRJ's will have meals, and it will be nice to have that option to places like Baltimore and Harftord. It will also be nice to never have a fuel stop coming back to MKE from those places when the winter headwinds are strong and the plane is full. Bring on the CRJ!

--More nonstop flights to more destinations. Milwaukee-Newark just can't support four 717's much of the year, but with the CRJ it's likely they'll have 4 and perhaps eventually 5 flights every weekday. Milwaukee-Raleigh and Kansas City-Austin can't support 717's and nobody flies those markets nonstop now. That will change with the CRJ.

--CRJ's are a viable replacement for 717's in some thinner markets in a way that the FRJ is not. This allows Midwest to free up some 717 flying to increase service on existing routes (like Denver and Atlanta) and add new flying (like Seattle).

--2x2 seating available again on Saver markets. That means those willing to pay more for the better seating have that option. It also means the chance of upgrades (complementary or paid with miles) for frequent flyer members, a missing perk that undoubtedly sent some frequent flyers to Northwest on MKE-LAX. That will change soon.

Again, I'm not saying that the CRJ's wll have no downside. They are not as comfortable as the 717's are. They will probably have ground-level boarding in Milwaukee. But it's not like all the CRJ are going to do is replace 717 flying and those 717's are leaving. Much of the expansion fostered by the CRJ program will mean improved service in some existing markets (better equipment or more flights) and new markets being added. And those 717's will still be used 11 hours/day out of both Milwaukee and Kansas City.

Midwest's loyal following is not only about the seats. It is about the generally better level of service. It is about lots of nonstop flights to lots of destinations. It is about the cookies. It is about being able to concentrate one's frequent flyer miles on a single carrier. It is about being a local company that stands out which Milwaukee can be proud of. It is about having an easier time redeeming miles on Midwest than many other carriers. It is about a competitive fare. It is about better seat pitch than many competitors. It is about holding for connections. It is about offering reliable service and schedules without constant schedule changes or lots of on-again-off-again seasonal markets. It's about having a vested interest in the success of the communities they serve.

Sure, if my MKE-EWR flight is downgraded from a 717 to a CRJ I might be a little disappointed, although the compeition is an RJ too and without meal service. And if going to the RJ lets them put 4 or even 5 flights in, that's more flexibility for me. Not having to ride the BE1 to St Louis is a wonderful trade-off in my eyes. Being able to fly nonstop to Raleigh will be a great benefit. Being able to earn credits towards my Midwest Executive level status when flying to Seattle will be nice too. And if it helps them stay in business, I'm all for it. Flying in Milwaukee before Midwest meant lots of connections, lots of diffeernt airlines, and lots of give-up-and-drive-to-O'Hare trips.
 
Mainland
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:33 am

I believe for the sake of the document a "foreign corporation" is any business/corporation incorporated in any state other than New York.
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
max999
Posts: 947
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Mainland (Reply 18):
I'd imagine they're exploiting the law on the basis that there are shareholders in New York....but I'm no lawyer.



Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 15):
3. What does a New York Law have to do with Midwest or AirTran given that both of these businesses are not incorporated in the State of New York?

Since both airlines has operations in the State of New York, they must abide by all laws of the state.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
sideflare75
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Mainland (Reply 31):
I believe for the sake of the document a "foreign corporation" is any business/corporation incorporated in any state other than New York.

Ok thanks. Who wrote that a laywer?
 
B757capt
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
To me, if AirTran really wanted to prove that they were going to sacrafice MKE, they would have already started adding flights to MKE.. to some of those destiantions that they stated they would start.. but they have done nothing.. and this just seems like a sort of temper tantrum because Midwest hasn't just bowed to them and sold out.

See you guys aren't getting it. I understand that if you work for, or would miss midwest you might be worried. So your worring turns into a nasty talk and fight. AIRTRAN HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT THEY WILL KEEP MIDWEST JOBS, PEOPLE AND ADD TO THEIR FLEET. AIRTRAN DOESN'T WANT TO GO INTO MKE AND START ALL THIS EXPANISON STUFF AND RUN THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!!! Airtran has witnessed that Midwest has a great product. IF YOU CAN"T BEAT EM JOIN EM''''. I think Joe Leonard has always thought that midwest has a great product and I look forwarding to seeing the 2 products intigrate.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
sideflare75
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting B757capt (Reply 34):
AIRTRAN HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT THEY WILL KEEP MIDWEST JOBS, PEOPLE AND ADD TO THEIR FLEET

Sure they say that but how can it be? Why would they? They would be duplicating jobs they already have. Joe also said in one of his interviews when asked that very question, "we will keep the people and jobs....for now". I think alot of the employees should be worried.
 
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JBo
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 30):
Midwest holds for connections more than most airlines do, and a lot of airlines don't even seem to try to make sure close connections are watched for.

Something I'm all too familiar with ... both being stuck here at work late at night because the flight is being held for inbound connects, and also on the other end, taking it upon ourselves to keep an eye on pax connections when things run late and calling CSA to see if any connections are being held, etc.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 30):
Reduced and eliminated BE1 flying, so few and soon no Midwest passengers will ever be on an aircraft without a lavatory or flight attendent. Those BE1 are not limited to just backwater towns either, currently or recently seen in places like Louisville, Des Moines, Columbus, Indianapolis, Dayton and St Louis. Going to jets on those flights is huge.

There's been talk that the Beeches might be around a little longer ... but nevertheless, they will - eventually - be gone. I think the EAS routes is a big factor in that decision-making.

Quoting B757capt (Reply 34):

AIRTRAN HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT THEY WILL KEEP MIDWEST JOBS, PEOPLE AND ADD TO THEIR FLEET. AIRTRAN DOESN'T WANT TO GO INTO MKE AND START ALL THIS EXPANISON STUFF AND RUN THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!!! Airtran has witnessed that Midwest has a great product. IF YOU CAN"T BEAT EM JOIN EM''''. I think Joe Leonard has always thought that midwest has a great product and I look forwarding to seeing the 2 products intigrate.

So because they say it, it means it's true? All due respect, I"m not sure you get it either. Just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it's true. AirTran, like any other company trying to take over another, will say anything to get the Midwest people on their side. There is absolutely no reason to take AirTran's current word as the gospel and run with it.

Our good friend Knope has provided a more-than-healthy analysis of what could happen to MKE post-merger based on AirTran's past expansion efforts. Granted, he could very well be wrong, but it's still much more compelling than just saying "we're keeping jobs." When you start crunching numbers and basing your analysis on facts like Knope has, you have a more solid case.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting B757capt (Reply 34):
AIRTRAN DOESN'T WANT TO GO INTO MKE AND START ALL THIS EXPANISON STUFF AND RUN THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!!!

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  Thank you AirTran for being so kind!!! What a joke of a comment.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 26):
Cookies will be served on ALL aircraft. Ovens will be fitted on the ones that do not have one.

Prove it.

Ref Reno Air:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 34):
AIRTRAN HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT THEY WILL KEEP MIDWEST JOBS, PEOPLE AND ADD TO THEIR FLEET. AIRTRAN DOESN'T WANT TO GO INTO MKE AND START ALL THIS EXPANISON STUFF AND RUN THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!!! Airtran has witnessed that Midwest has a great product. IF YOU CAN"T BEAT EM JOIN EM''''.

Signed,

American Airlines
 
n917me
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 26):
Cookies will be served on ALL aircraft. Ovens will be fitted on the ones that do not have one.

LOL, do you realize how much that will cost???!!!!

Quoting B757capt (Reply 34):
See you guys aren't getting it. I understand that if you work for, or would miss midwest you might be worried. So your worring turns into a nasty talk and fight. AIRTRAN HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT THEY WILL KEEP MIDWEST JOBS, PEOPLE AND ADD TO THEIR FLEET. AIRTRAN DOESN'T WANT TO GO INTO MKE AND START ALL THIS EXPANISON STUFF AND RUN THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!!! Airtran has witnessed that Midwest has a great product. IF YOU CAN"T BEAT EM JOIN EM''''. I think Joe Leonard has always thought that midwest has a great product and I look forwarding to seeing the 2 products intigrate.

HA!!! I see you have been drinking the FL Kool-Aid. What make you think that FL will keep Midwest Jobs?? Sure the execs will be out, FL needs the YX agents at MKE, however, Field Stations....thats another story. CLE? I do not see FL going to CLE, when they are established in CAK, and staffed. Are they going to add another 8-9 positions to the operation in CAK. PHL, FL is established, competition is fierce and FL really has not expanded in PHL recently, there really is not much room to expand, will FL add 8-10 (FT/PT) jobs into their PHL operation? The list goes on. By the way, the jobs Joe states Midwest employees will have, will they be at the same level they are now (PT/FT. leads, Supervisor, Manager)?? I can't see that happening, so whats in it for YX field employees?????? not much, besides maybe a part time ramp position, when the person was a senior FT CSR/counter/gate. I have seen absolutley nothing even a tad bit convincing that YX field employees will have a job. I see it turning out to be a TWA/AA merger, 6 months after the merger, the TWA people were being shown the door.

Now, on to the topic, I believe FL is getting nervous, their own shareholders are questioning why they are going after YX (check out AOL money, under AAI quotes) when the AAI stock is falling:
YOU SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT OIL REACHED $78.00 A BARREL AND TODAYS CNBC BROADCAST INDICATES THAT THERE FEARS THAT AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT MIGHT GO BELOW $55.00 A BARREL.
IF YOU READ MY POST A FEW DAYS AGO (UNDER MY LOGO AT HOME) IN RESPONSE TO THE ACQUISTION OF MIDWEST YOU WILL SEE WHAT I THINK ARE OUR CHANCES OT THE STOCK PRICE GOING UP UNTIL THE REST OF THE PLANES ARE DELIVERED AND ARE ON POFITABLE ROUTES.

AAI IS NOT POFITABLE ENOUGH, THAT IS AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT DOES'T GENERATE ENOUGH CASH,TO SET ASIDE MONIES FOR ITS OWN PURPOSES MUCH LESS TO BUY ANOTHER COMPANY.

AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT DOES PROVIDE ENOUGH OPTIONS FOR THE OFFICERS, ESPECIALLY OUR PRESIDENT BOB FORNARO, TO BE A PROLIFIC STOCK TRADER.

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, I AM LOOKING FOR AAI TO GO FOR ANOTHER STOCK ISSUE SOMETIME THIS YEAR BECAUSE WITH AT LEAST 20 PLANES TO BE DELIVERED THIS YEAR THERE WILL HAVE BE CASH GENERATED WETHER TO LEASE OR BUY THESE PLANES. THIS SITUATION WILL REPEAT ITSELF AGAIN FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

I HOPE THAT YOU PLAN ON ATTENDING THESTOCK HOLDERS MEETING THIS YEAR AS I PLAN TO BE (AGAINST MY DOCTORS ORDERS) AS I HAVE A LOTOF UNANSWERED QUSTIONS.

And,
Appreciated your well- reasoned response the other day, and like you, I can't fathom an airline that is unable to generate a profit in a particular quarter having the grit to make a buy-out offer to another mediocre airline. C'mon, Mr Leonard, reward loyal shareholders for a change instead of granting additional stock options to Officers and Directors.

YX will respond to the offer on the 25th, the same day MEH will announce earnings. (my prediction, 4Q profit, 2006 full year profit.)
Taking YX to court seems like yet another desperate attempt from FL. I am sure after YX gives FL their answer, there will be PLENTY of accurate and clear reasonings as to why they said NO! I guess FL never learned, NO means NO.

[Edited 2007-01-24 03:30:12]
 
deltadude8
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:38 am

Which logo do you like more?

Big version: Width: 588 Height: 221 File size: 27kb
version 2


or

Big version: Width: 588 Height: 264 File size: 24kb



I'm going to make bumper stickers...if you want one let me know...
 
Mainland
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 26):
Cookies will be served on ALL aircraft. Ovens will be fitted on the ones that do not have one.

Amazing how, seemingly, a post on the Yahoo! message board of all places suddenly becomes the end all word. A Yahoo! board where, on the whole, things are to be taken with less than a grain of salt. Until I see AirTran actually say they'll have ovens, they won't. A "best practices" approach to Midwest integration does not mean cookies and ovens -- it's just a buzzword.

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 33):
Ok thanks. Who wrote that a laywer?

Nah, just me.

This court order seems pretty desperate, it'll be interesting to see who the court sides with.
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:05 pm

We are talking billions of dollars here and Airtran is not concerned about a bag of cookies on an airplane. Joe Leonard could care less about a silly cookie.. Where else can Joe get 717,s... Long beach is fresh out. I would not look for Mke to be a Hub. The northern hub will be in Stl. Yes Mke will have flights but not what they are anticipating. it will just be an out station.

Kiss the RJs,and commuters good bye unless they are used from StL,to Mke,and i serious doubt they will do that.

Just be realistic. Biz is Biz.. Cookies are thoughtful things but within 6 months
they too shall be gone. Midwest is not First class on British Airways.
i can see for 80 miles
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:10 pm

FL is very aware of who the controlling stockholders of YX are. If they do not, then they do not have very capable financial people. That in itself would make me wonder about their long term business sense and abilities.

Yo, Joe! Here's a good start: Heartland Investors and Northwestern Mutual Life. Get them to go along and the rest will fall like dominoes. Can't get them? No list is going to help you.

The court filing is just another pee-rrr stunt. They know who they have to convince. And who they have to convince already knows their plan.

this is not nasty. It's silly.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:13 pm

I like Knopes analysis on the things that make Midwest different. Some of it seems arguable, but in the end, I believe that is why they have been successful.

AirTran may or may not make this all work out, but one thing I doubt is that they are only doing this for the planes. There are much cheaper ways of growing than buying an airline then ditching most of it.

St Louis? Let's let them actually fly there for a while before we give it hub status. In the end, they can go into MKE with a large presence from the get-go, and by now many people have heard of them in the news. If he deal goes through, there will be plenty of marketing that will bring out a lot of people who otherwise may have chosen another carrier (or airport) but are lured by the introductory, post-merger low fares. Will they be enough? Will the business folks stay?

One thing is for sure - I think AirTran would be a hell of a lot more successful if they did indeed adopt some of the comfort features of Midwest (i.e. cookies, buy on board, etc.). Send a message that you are not taking a step down if you choose AirTran.

Doubt it will happen, so we'll see where it get's them.

-Dave
-Dave
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:37 pm

First Class on Airtran is not bad. Plenty of legroom ,Xm radio,and they do throw snacks out. Domestically I prefer then to Dal F/c just because of xm,vs that canned music.

Yes there will be a big hoopla in the begining in Mke,but it will slowly disapate over a short time.

Joe was so hung up on the 717,that he even asked boeing to even stretch the 717, which would be like going through another series of Dc-9. When they told him no! his only option was the 737. Where else can he get a fleet of 717,s in this country??If Mx still has the Mad dogs, they will probably be sold to keep unity of his fleet. Anything that has value and does not conform to Fl,standards their going to be sold. How many millions a year can be saved just on cookies alone.. Im not trying to be an arse, but its the cold hard facts of business
i can see for 80 miles
 
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JBo
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 40):
Which logo do you like more?

No slam against your design skills, but neither.

How about this:
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:18 pm

My reading of the statute is that FL doesn't have standing to sue here. They aren't a NY corporation, so they aren't a resident of NY. If that's the case this is, like much of the rhetoric surrounding the merger from both sides, just a publicity stunt.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
wjcandee
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:28 pm

Sometimes, you just need a lawyer...

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 29):
It seems this only applies to a foreign corporation unless I am not reading it correctly. I know Wisconsin is not New York but it isn't foreign. Or is it???????

"Foreign Corporation" means one that is incorporated somewhere other than New York. Midwest Airlines, Inc. is incorporated in Wisconsin. So it is a foreign corporation. It is registered to do business in New York, as a foreign business corporation. http://appsext8.dos.state.ny.us/corp...%47%49%4E%53&p_srch_results_page=1

Airtran Airways, Inc. is incorporated in Delaware, and is registered to do business in New York as a foreign business corporation. http://appsext8.dos.state.ny.us/corp...%47%49%4E%53&p_srch_results_page=0

Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 15):
3. What does a New York Law have to do with Midwest or AirTran given that both of these businesses are not incorporated in the State of New York?



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 47):
My reading of the statute is that FL doesn't have standing to sue here. They aren't a NY corporation,

Aaaaaah...but you are both missing something. First, whether a corporation is a New York "resident" has to do with more than just the state in which a corporation is incorporated. Where the chief office is, for example, may enter into it. You can be a Delaware corporation that is a New York resident. If I had to guess, I would guess that Airtran is a Florida resident, even though it is a Delaware corporation. So, you are right that Airtran Airways, Inc. isn't a New York resident and thus probably can't avail itself of the quoted section of the BCL.

HOWEVER...THE PLAINTIFF IN THE LAWSUIT ISN'T AIRTRAN AIRWAYS, INC. It's "Airtran New York, LLC", an LLC that was established in New York on January 9, 2007, and uses LGA as its business address. http://appsext8.dos.state.ny.us/corp...%47%49%4E%53&p_srch_results_page=0
Presumably, it owns a couple of share of Midwest stock, and so qualifies under the section of the BCL. I assume that the lawyers set that company up in early January, bought some shares of Midwest, and then demanded the shareholder list on a 5-day time fuse. Either they were told to pound sand, or simply ignored. So now they have a hearing in front of Judge Freedman in the Commercial Division at the end of January. She is a very smart judge who can see straight through BS, so I am confident that she'll follow whatever the law actually is on this issue.

[Edited 2007-01-24 08:32:27]
 
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knope2001
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RE: Airtran To Take YX To Court

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 36):
There's been talk that the Beeches might be around a little longer ... but nevertheless, they will - eventually - be gone. I think the EAS routes is a big factor in that decision-making.

Something that may or may not be meainingful regarding the Beech 1900's and the EAS markets.

When you go to Midwest's web site and try to book a ticket to Seattle, you can do that now for all the Milwaukee feeder cities, all of which qould require a double connections. Madison-Seattle, Marquette-Seattle, Muskegon-Seattle, etc. That's true for all their Milwaukee feeder cities except for the four EAS cities. If you try to book a trip between Manistee, Escanaba, Iron Mountain or Ironwood and Seattle, you get an error message that no flights are found.

Those four cities are still available for sale to all other Midwest destinations including Duluth through the rest of the year. So it's not like they have pulled those cities from their schedule. Heck, they can't pull them until someone else is awarded those markets and starts service there. But with these four cities specifically missing from the new Seattle fares loaded, does that signal they are not planning on being there much longer?