QXatFAT
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New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:31 pm

On the news just a few min ago (ABC 30), they said that the City of Fresno is going to offer thousands of dollars in discounts to airlines that come to FAT bringing new destinations within the United States. They are wanting lower fares to more places. Currently FAT has service to 9 US destinations:

SFO - United Airlines Express (SkyWest)
LAX - United Airlines Express (SkyWest), American Eagle
SEA - Horizon Airlines
PDX - Horizon Airlines
LAS - Ameria West, America West Express (Mesa), Allegiant Air, United Airlines Express (SkyWest)
PHX - America West Express (Mesa)
DEN - United Airlines Express (SkyWest), (Soon Frontier w/o Horizon)
SLC - Delta Airlines Express (SkyWest)
DFW - American Airlines

So what do you think FAT could use next? I would say we could possibly see WN interested a bit more in FAT now. Maybe service to SAN, LAX, PHX, LAS, MDW?

Also, I think that UA could come in and use mainline to ORD.
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copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm

ORD is most likely. Or SAN. one of those two.

-Copa
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QXatFAT
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:50 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 1):
Or SAN. one of those two.

Who would operate this though? WN will not come in and just operate one city. As well, AE did this for awhile and was a bust. So hard for me to see them come do it again.
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copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 2):

Who would operate this though? WN will not come in and just operate one city. As well, AE did this for awhile and was a bust. So hard for me to see them come do it again.

If SAN were to be operated...IMO, it woudl be an extension from Aloha. Much like SMF started as an extension of SoCal routes from AQ.

and as far as ORD...I could see either AA or UA operating it.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
SANFan
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:04 pm

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see QX start a couple of daily SAN-FAT-XXX flights this year; that seems the most likely SAN candidate for now. There is thinking that QX may expand in SAN this year. If SFO is ok with the a/c to be used, I would think SAN-FAT-SFO likely.

How about SAN-FAT-SMF or SAN-FAT-RNO; it doesn't appear there is currently any service between FAT and either SMF or RNO and I would think there would be a market for those routes.

I'm curious if WN has ever started service to a new city because of financial incentives? Could anyone verify if this is rumored or known to be the case?

Money does talk, so good luck with the effort Fresno.

bb
 
QXatFAT
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:17 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
and as far as ORD...I could see either AA or UA operating it.

Thinking about it, AA might be the better choice to ORD. Many people here in the valley use the mainline flight to DFW a lot and with AA offering a trip to ORD would make people loyal to AA IMO.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
If SAN were to be operated...IMO, it woudl be an extension from Aloha. Much like SMF started as an extension of SoCal routes from AQ.

I could see this as well. FAT deffinatly needs a way to Hawaii.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 4):
QX start a couple of daily SAN-FAT-XXX

Possibly PDX-FAT-SAN-FAT-PDX on a new Q400. It has been done before on the Q400 from FAT-PDX.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 4):
SAN-FAT-SMF

Very unlikly. SMF IMO is just to close for a market to stop at SMF. SFO works out because of connections and the constant travel to the Bay Area.
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:22 pm

IAH on CO-EX with an ERJ-145XR - after all, they already fly into BFL with one, why on earth not to FAT (= bigger market with loads of potential Mexico transfers)

JFK on JetBlue - once daily as a red-eye like ONT just for a/c utilization
 
copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):

Thinking about it, AA might be the better choice to ORD. Many people here in the valley use the mainline flight to DFW a lot and with AA offering a trip to ORD would make people loyal to AA IMO.

Bingo. And with AA already sending mainline aircraft...its pretty easy.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):

I could see this as well. FAT deffinatly needs a way to Hawaii.

If the FAT-SAN-HNL/OGG route were successful, then a N/S could be in order.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
SANFan
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:54 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 7):
If the FAT-SAN-HNL/OGG route were successful, then a N/S could be in order.

Yes, this idea has been discussed in previous threads. It seems logical that AQ will (re) enter the SAN-HNL market as soon as they have some new a/c. They could extend the flight somewhere (as they did with the SAN-RNO tag-on during the first few months of OGG service) and the type of a/c just screams SAN-FAT.

The key will be the timing. With RNO it was a pre-destined failure (dep'd SAN 8:25pm, arr'd Reno 10pm where it RONd, with an early morning s/b return.) If this is what they do with SAN-FAT, the local traffic would be non-existent. I'm sure HNL-SAN and HNL-FAT would do fine but very few local pax, which is fine I suppose. (Of course they could tag FAT onto any of their Hawaii-West Coast flights and not really worry about any local California traffic.)

I've heard nothing about AQ growing their fleet anytime soon so I still hold out for Horizon to fly FAT to SAN.

bb
 
copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:10 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 8):
I've heard nothing about AQ growing their fleet anytime soon so I still hold out for Horizon to fly FAT to SAN.

This sounds like the best option...as I've heard QX wants to expand California. And AQ doesn't look like they are going to expand their fleet anytime soon.

-Copa
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InTheSky74
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 pm

I'd love to see a B6 red-eye from FAT-JFK!
 
copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:19 pm

What about F9 expanding a little? Maybe offer some service south of the border?
That'd be cool.

-Copa
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QXatFAT
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:23 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 9):
This sounds like the best option...as I've heard QX wants to expand California. And AQ doesn't look like they are going to expand their fleet anytime soon.

Yes they have talked about this. What would be great but would never happen is make FAT a focus city kind of. Maybe do runs such as LAX-FAT-SLC-FAT-LAX, LAX-FAT-BOI, LAX-FAT-RNO or something like this. Way to far fetched I know but like said about the people of FAT being loyal to AA, they are also loyal to QX and the amazing service to SEA and PDX.

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 6):
IAH on CO-EX with an ERJ-145XR - after all, they already fly into BFL with one, why on earth not to FAT (= bigger market with loads of potential Mexico transfers)

I deffinatly think that CO needs to move into the FAT market.
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QXatFAT
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 11):
What about F9 expanding a little? Maybe offer some service south of the border?
That'd be cool.

There were talks about this as well but remember, the City of Fresno is only offering the discount to new US cities and not International destinations. International is a whole nother thing FAT is lacking.
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copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:26 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 12):
I deffinatly think that CO needs to move into the FAT market.



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 6):
IAH on CO-EX with an ERJ-145XR - after all, they already fly into BFL with one, why on earth not to FAT (= bigger market with loads of potential Mexico transfers)

The BFL-IAH flight is there for the Oil Industry. Lots of corporate traffic between the two places. An expansion to FAT could happen soon, its been long rumored.

-Copa
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copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):

There were talks about this as well but remember, the City of Fresno is only offering the discount to new US cities and not International destinations. International is a whole nother thing FAT is lacking.

MX seems to be doing great...so maybe they will expand.

I guess for domestic service, I'd say
AA/UA to ORD
QX/AQ to SAN
COEX to IAH
Those are the top 3 IMO.

-Copa
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MSYtristar
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:25 pm

I'd expect ExpressJet to announce new FAT service within the next two weeks. Be on the lookout.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 16):
I'd expect ExpressJet to announce new FAT service within the next two weeks. Be on the lookout.

Source or is this just your opinion? Would be great if it happend!

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 15):
I guess for domestic service, I'd say
AA/UA to ORD
QX/AQ to SAN
COEX to IAH
Those are the top 3 IMO.

Those are good ones Copa. Id agree and heres mine:

AA/UA to ORD
WN to LAS, PHX, LAX, PDX, MDW


QXatFAT
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FATFlyer
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 17):
Source or is this just your opinion? Would be great if it happend!

ExpressJet is advertising for employees and managers for FAT.
http://expressjet.recruitmax.com/mai...tal/Job_Profile.cfm?szOrderID=1054
http://expressjet.recruitmax.com/mai...rtal/Job_Profile.cfm?szOrderID=989

I'm in a meeting for another hour (just took a break) but I'll post more in a few hours.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
copaair737
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:53 am

It would make sense for an Expressjet flight to FAT, as there are a lot of people in the Valley a lot of relatives in the Texas/Oklahoma areas.

-Copa

[Edited 2007-01-24 19:55:55]
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MSYtristar
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 17):
Source or is this just your opinion?

A source that cannot be named, I'm sorry. But you'll find out the hard facts in the not too distant future.  Wink
 
stirling
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:27 am

Burbank.
Orange County.
Oakland.
San Jose.
San Diego.
Chicago.
Houston.
Albuqwirkee.
San Jose del Cabo.
Mazatlan.
Puerto Vallarta.
Atlanta.
Honolulu.
Maui.

Nothing scientific....just looking at the needs.
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EXAAUADL
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:36 am

The most obvious I think is CO to IAH
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:42 am

I saw this last night on the news also but was hoping for more info in today's paper.
http://www.fresnobee.com/170/story/25881.html

In this article the airport director says his top 2 goals are flights to ORD and SAN.

Although this is domestic routes, the airport already has a financial plan for new international service, part of attempts to grow the use of the new FIS.

Quoting QXatFAT (Thread starter):
I would say we could possibly see WN interested a bit more in FAT now.

WN will add FAT when it makes sense for them compared to other opportunities. This program will be nice but they get these kind of offers from lots of airports. But Southwest seems to avoid routes that only make sense with financial help. I do think FAT is probably on their list but there are probably now a few larger cities ahead of it.

A few of my thoughts on routes/airlines:
ORD has been on many people's wish list for a while. Either AA or UA will probably pick it up in the next year or 2. My guess would be AA for northeast connections to complement the southern cities through DFW.

SAN is one that I've also said for a while probably has some potential.

RNO - Well I've heard that the Reno/Tahoe area casinos for years have wanted a Fresno connection back. DL was the last to operate it. I can see this as part of something but probably a little lower in airline interest right now.

One airline that has not been discussed yet is Allegiant. They are rumored to be looking at several new focus cities including SJD and PVR. I would not be surprised to see FAT get one of those.

AQ? as I discussed before in other threads, the Fresno area is one of the largest current markets for tourists to Hawaii that does not have current flights. Fresno MSA ranks as the 27th largest source, Stockton MSA is 28, Bakersfield 42nd and Modesto 44th. So FAT might provide a central alternative for people from those areas with a few RTs a week.

I heard a rumor this week that I have not confirmed yet that Allegiant has been considering a Hawaii focus city with a new aircraft type. A poster at flyertalk.com says they got asked about it in a marketing questionaire. If true I'd love to see FAT on the short list and it would be a domestic city qualifying for this program.  Wink

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 19):
It would make sense for an Expressjet flight to FAT, as there are a lot of people in the Valley a lot of relatives in the Texas/Oklahoma areas.

I suspect it is also part of the new point to point operation. So it is possible they might start flights like FAT-ONT or FAT-SAN.
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FATFlyer
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 20):
But you'll find out the hard facts in the not too distant future.

A week from tomorrow, right?  Wink
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:46 am

Forgot to mention one other airline we have not discussed.

Frontier has been expanding in California at its other stations. It would not be too surprising to see them add a route or routes out of FAT in the next couple of years.

Maybe something to Mexico or something to say LAX or SFO.
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PVD757
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 22):
The most obvious I think is CO to IAH

I agree...
 
SANFan
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 16):
I'd expect ExpressJet to announce new FAT service within the next two weeks. Be on the lookout.

SAN is also on ExpressJet's radar so...  scratchchin 

Does anyone know if ExpressJet is looking at hub-and-spoke or simply connecting O&D-healthy markets? If the latter, then they might well be the first ones to do some FAT-IntraCA flying (as well as FAT-TX or ???)

It's beginning to look like 2007 will be a very good year for expansion, at least domestically, despite a lot of the legacies supposedly "going int'l".

bb
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 27):
Does anyone know if ExpressJet is looking at hub-and-spoke or simply connecting O&D-healthy markets?

The press release about XJT earnings today said ExpressJet currently plans to use 44 aircraft to launch branded service in markets that are sized appropriately for these aircraft and typically do not have direct flight options today. Service to 24 cities in the West, Midwest and Southeast United States will begin in April and May 2007.

How to interpret that we'll see next week. But my guess has been a mix of connections and P2P.
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PVD757
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:28 am

based upon those regions, it sounds like they will have some sort of connecting point in the southern tier of the US.

I also agree that FAT-ORD might make sense and I'd through in FAT-MSP on NW as well...
 
QXatFAT
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 23):
SAN is one that I've also said for a while probably has some potential.

Well when AE operated this flight, how was the loads? I thought they stopped this flight because of loads not being there. So why start it back up?

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 25):
Maybe something to Mexico or something to say LAX or SFO.

I would like to see more compotition to SFO besides just UAX but it would have to be an airline with code shares to the Orient and other parts of Ocieanic. A lot of factories are looking at opening in the Madera/Chowchilla area so this would be for the Japaniese and Chinese travels for parts and such to go into these factories, as well as raw matierials, plus the high population of the asian community in the FAT area.

Mexico is huge for flights out of FAT. Right now with MX there I can see them jumping to the gun before anyone else to try to get to MEX. I can deffinatly see F9 getting from FAT-PVR but would be nice IMO if AS/QX took a flight from FAT-PVR (non-stop or threw SAN). I see 4 destinations in FAT's future to Mexico but nothing more then just that. Nothing ever to Canada and nothing ever to the Carribian.
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FATFlyer
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 30):
Well when AE operated this flight, how was the loads? I thought they stopped this flight because of loads not being there. So why start it back up?

I actually remember when USAir Express and DLConn were flying it. I used it a number of times to see clients in the SAN area. I think the first time was back in 1988 or so. It used to see good numbers and I believe the market is even better.

If I remember the info correctly from some stuff I looked at 2 years ago, Fresno's largest mainland markets not flown non-stop ranked by passenger count are (in descending order starting with the largest):
Chicago, IL
New York, NY
Minneapolis, MN
Atlanta, GA
Washington, DC
San Diego, CA
Orlando, FL
Houston, TX
St. Louis, MO
Detroit, MI

I'd say ORD, MSP, SAN, and IAH are the ones that make the most sense to me to see new flights in the next couple of years. The others would be too long distance for the number of passengers.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 30):
Nothing ever to Canada and nothing ever to the Carribian.

I agree, at least in my lifetime. SMF has been trying to get Canada flights for years and it hasn't happened there yet.
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stirling
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 30):
Well when AE operated this flight, how was the loads?

I never priced the route, but I can only imagine it was a bank-buster...over $250 r/t. Or more.
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as739x
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RE: New Destinations For FAT?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:46 am

I don't think you will see Horizon flying to San Francisco from Fresno. First, the build up of FAT will be with Q400's, which do not operate into SFO. Fresno I personally think will loose what SMF will gain as a potential QX focus city. Seems the talk is leaning more towards SMF.

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