yellowtail
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Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:41 am

With its 30 plane order and confirmed plans for expansion into Latin America and the Caribbean....where do they have on their radar?

Some possibilities: POS, BGI, SAP, SJO, BZE?

Despite what they say about not wanting to compete with American, you don't go into cities such as PAP without the plan to do so.

I think they will have success as AA has gouged us for long enough! Come to BZE pleeeeeeeseeeeeee!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:08 am

I don't see why you think that Spirit would bring any fare relief to Belize. They are not a low fare airline and their fares, outside of promotional, are not cheap on international flights. In addition Spirit service to Belize or any similar niche market would likely not be more than weekend service.

[Edited 2007-01-24 17:39:59]
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Thread starter):
With its 30 plane order and confirmed plans for expansion into Latin America and the Caribbean....where do they have on their radar?

Some possibilities: POS, BGI, SAP, SJO, BZE?

Despite what they say about not wanting to compete with American, you don't go into cities such as PAP without the plan to do so.

I think they will have success as AA has gouged us for long enough! Come to BZE pleeeeeeeseeeeeee!

I do know Spirit just hired, or is in the process of hiring, twenty-four new customer service representatives at Fort Lauderdale (I know this because I applied, and interviewed, unsuccessfully to be one of them). When I asked whether this was for growth or turnover reasons, they specifically said it was for growth, although short of adding another bank in each direction, I'm not sure where they can find the real estate, and I certainly wasn't going to follow up about that in a job interview to an HR employee who probably had no clue, being that all that would do was land me a rejection letter (which was exactly what I got anyway). Regardless, however, I have to admit that Spirit's side of that story didn't exactly check-out.
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rojo
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:44 am

NK should have started FLL-MEX last year according to their original plan and just before AM restarted operations. The MEX-South Florida market has been growing a lot in both business and leisure traffic. Today, NK could be a consolidated carrier in this market, but now thinks look tougher, since AM is running the FLL flight and MX has one more daily non-stop which gives us:

MEX-MIA/FLL
4x AM non-stop + 1 via MID
3x AA non-stop.
3x MX non-stop + 3 via CUN

2006 Real State figures were released today and Mexicans bought almost 16,000 properties (condos and houses) in Miami Dada and Broward Counties which is twice what Mexicans bought in 2005. I guess NK does not pay attention to this figures.

Last thing I heard in Mexico about NK was that TLC airport approached the airline and offered them incentives (cheap landing fees for the airline and cheap airport tax for its passengers) in order to start TLC-FLL. But I don't know if this will help land a deal with NK... the had their opportunity and they let it go...
 
PVD757
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:30 am

FPO seems like an obvious choice to me. I could see Cozumel (better than the AA AT7 service) in the future.

SJO, BZE, and GUA could work - I just not sure if NK sees those as priorities.

AUA comes to mind too.

I'd agree with many of the others already posted (POS, BGI, etc.).
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 4):
SJO, BZE, and GUA could work - I just not sure if NK sees those as priorities.

San Jose was announced today. 3x weekly at first, but will go daily in late May.

Two more destinations will be announced within a few weeks, though I am not sure if that includes Caracas, for which they still need Venezuelan approval. Spirit plans on adding 4-6 new destinations from Ft. Lauderdale in the November/December time period.
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viaggiare
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
I don't see why you think that Spirit would bring any fare relief to Belize. They are not a low fare airline

Really? No offense, but perhaps you're making up your own criteria. NK is clearly a low-cost/no-frills/discount carrier. And to further suggest that their hypothetical entry into markets lacking any significant competition (such as BZE and others in its vicinity) just wouldn't "bring any fare relief" from years of systematic gouging is preposterous.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
yellowtail
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 6):
Really? No offense, but perhaps you're making up your own criteria. NK is clearly a low-cost/no-frills/discount carrier. And to further suggest that their hypothetical entry into markets lacking any significant competition (such as BZE and others in its vicinity) just wouldn't "bring any fare relief" from years of systematic gouging is preposterous.

Thanks for hitting my nail on its head!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 6):

Really? No offense, but perhaps you're making up your own criteria. NK is clearly a low-cost/no-frills/discount carrier. And to further suggest that their hypothetical entry into markets lacking any significant competition (such as BZE and others in its vicinity) just wouldn't "bring any fare relief" from years of systematic gouging is preposterous.

No, Spirit is not a low-fare airline. They are a low-cost airline with low operating costs. Learn the difference. They offer great promotional fares, and if you buy in advance enough you can get great deals, but otherwise nothing very special.

Also, there is no market for anything more than two, maybe three, flights a week on FLL-BZE. That would barely be a dent in the market.
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yellowtail
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Also, there is no market for anything more than two, maybe three, flights a week on FLL-BZE. That would barely be a dent in the mark

That is where I think you are wrong my friend....AA flies double daily to MIA....and MOST of it is BELIZEAN traffic going to family/shopping in the MIA, FLL and TPA area....

a well timed flight to FLL would definitely work..I know quite a few local businessmen who live in FLL and commute to Belize (in M out F)....they campaigned US hard to start it..even offering to part subsidize the flight to make their lives easier.......
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 9):
That is where I think you are wrong my friend....AA flies double daily to MIA....and MOST of it is BELIZEAN traffic going to family/shopping in the MIA, FLL and TPA area....

Most of AA's MIA-BZE traffic is American tourists. Of course, during off-peak periods the composition of Belizean/Americans changes more in favour of Belizeans, but it is not mainly Belize residents.

[Edited 2007-01-25 21:40:45]
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toltommy
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:31 am

It would be nice to see NK expand service to the caribbean from DTW. NWA hasn't shown much interest in the region. They have the infrastructure in place in a number of the outstations, adding a second daily flight would only increase the utilization of assets.
 
yellowtail
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Most of AA's MIA-BZE traffic is American tourists. Of course, during off-peak periods the composition of Belizean/Americans changes more in favour of Belizeans, but it is not mainly Belize residents.

NO it is not....just went outside, up to the viewing deck, in the drizzle and did a quick count getting on and off the second flight to prove my point....8 tourists coming in.....13 going out...in fact there were more european pax (who live in belize) getting on than tourists.

AA tries to route the tourist traffic these mostly through DFW and with US from CLT, CO from EWR and DL from ATL...all the tourist traffic from Northern/Eastern USA bleeds off before it reaches MIA......and a lot go through IAH.......
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 12):
NO it is not....just went outside, up to the viewing deck, in the drizzle and did a quick count getting on and off the second flight to prove my point....8 tourists coming in.....13 going out...in fact there were more european pax (who live in belize) getting on than tourists.

Yes, it is. You can observe it all you want, the fact is I've seen the data, and the flight is mainly US-originating. And give me a break, as if you can just look at people and say "oh, they are European, they are American, they are...". Sorry, doesn't work that way.
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RL757PVD
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 11):
It would be nice to see NK expand service to the caribbean from DTW

I always thought this routing would be good:

A/C 1 - LAX(redye)-DTW-PVD-SJU-FLL-PVD
A/C 2 - PVD-FLL-SJU-PVD-DTW-LAX

Gives PVD n/s SJU and DTW back, gives DTW direct SJU, all while providing excellent a/c utilization
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DTWAGENT
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:51 am

Well with the new aircraft on order, they could be planning on expanding to the west coast from DTW. They could go to year round on DTW/SFO and add flights to LAS, LAX and start new DTW/SAN flights. Also, DTW/DEN flights could be in the works as well as DTW/PHX. They could even add more flightst to CUN, Cozumel, Grand Cayman or even MBJ or St. Lucia. They would not be ordering more aircraft if they where not planning on expanding their route system.

Chuck
 
MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 15):
Well with the new aircraft on order, they could be planning on expanding to the west coast from DTW. They could go to year round on DTW/SFO and add flights to LAS, LAX and start new DTW/SAN flights. Also, DTW/DEN flights could be in the works as well as DTW/PHX. They could even add more flightst to CUN, Cozumel, Grand Cayman or even MBJ or St. Lucia. They would not be ordering more aircraft if they where not planning on expanding their route system.

They wouldn't, but I'd be willing to bet Detroit will not play a major role in expansion.
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viaggiare
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
No, Spirit is not a low-fare airline. They are a low-cost airline with low operating costs. Learn the difference.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
You can observe it all you want, the fact is I've seen the data, and the flight is mainly US-originating. And give me a break, as if you can just look at people and say "oh, they are European, they are American, they are...".

Apart from the dismissive and arrogantly presumptuous tone of these replies, you seem to be hung up on that meaningless and inconsequential LCC vs. LFC terminological discussion.

Bottom line is LCCs typically have lower fares than their legacy counterparts, especially in terms of last-minute and walk-up fares. Whatever the case may be, however, expecting any carrier to consistently come up with the least (or the most) expensive fares is somewhat naive.

NK's new service to SJO will unquestionably result in more choices and competitive fares for us. And the same would be true for Belizeans if/when BZE eventually shows up on their route map. Experience has shown that, absent the mere presence of an LCC in a particular market, low fares simply don't exist, or only exist in very limited numbers for advance purchase travelers.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
yellowtail
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Yes, it is. You can observe it all you want, the fact is I've seen the data, and the flight is mainly US-originating. And give me a break, as if you can just look at people and say "oh, they are European, they are American, they are...". Sorry, doesn't work that way.

US originating...but they are ALL Belizeans living there.......

Trust me I have been in the tourist business all long time..I can tell the difference between a belizean, tourist, transplant and BelAm (Belizean American).
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 11):
It would be nice to see NK expand service to the caribbean from DTW. NWA hasn't shown much interest in the region.

I agree with you here. If there's a gaping hole in DTW's service, it's to the Caribbean. I wonder if they've wanted to do that in the past but couldn't because of lack of facilities at DTW. They would have to deplane at the Berry Terminal and then tow the plane back over to the Smith terminal to reload. I wouldn't be surprised to see them maybe dedicate one or two aircraft a day to do some DTW Caribbean destinations maybe a few times a week to multiple destinations once the new terminal is completed.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
They wouldn't, but I'd be willing to bet Detroit will not play a major role in expansion.

I agree also. Their last expansion flights out of DTW have appeared to fail in BOS and PVD. I think we're seeing them define themselves as a choice for leisure destinations in the Caribbean as opposed to trying to pick off some apples in the business markets out of DTW.

I'm not sure how profitable it would be, but it would be nice to see them run some midsized cities flights to FLL to connect to their International destinations when they get some more gate space.
 
md90fan
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:16 am

Hopefully we will see NK in FPO,KIN,POP,MGA and maybe STX  Smile
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yellowtail
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:08 am

Don't Nk already serve KIN? or was that MBJ?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
No, Spirit is not a low-fare airline. They are a low-cost airline with low operating costs. Learn the difference. They offer great promotional fares, and if you buy in advance enough you can get great deals, but otherwise nothing very special.

= I have to agree on this one. In fact, outside their pennies promotion that are severly direction restricted, I do not NK fares to be anything significant than what the majors offer. True, when a new destination is launched, initial fares are low (basic marketing theory), but they are quick to rise to industry level. Do a search on ppular destinations and you will see what I mean.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 12):
8 tourists coming in.....13 going out...in fact there were more european pax (who live in belize) getting on than tourists.

= Fascinating.

Wasn't there rumor of the next NK destination being LIM via PTY or something like that?

Cheers,
A.
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MAH4546
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RE: Where Will Spirit Go Next?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):

Wasn't there rumor of the next NK destination being LIM via PTY or something like that?

Lima is planned non-stop. An A319 can do FLL-LIM easily.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):

= I have to agree on this one. In fact, outside their pennies promotion that are severly direction restricted, I do not NK fares to be anything significant than what the majors offer. True, when a new destination is launched, initial fares are low (basic marketing theory), but they are quick to rise to industry level. Do a search on ppular destinations and you will see what I mean.

Exactly, and many people fail to realize this. The fact is that one daily A319 flight is going to do very little to bring any fare relief. And Spirit does not cap their fares, either. If it is the holidays, they will charge you $600-$800 round-trip. No $299 cap like many others.
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