Topic Author
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am


Fri Feb 26, 1999 5:31 am

According to Todays Los Angeles Times, in business section, Boeing is planning to get rid of the 717 due to little orders. Boeing is also planning to cut ailing projects.

Boeing is scared of being bought by another company like GE who has more sales than Boeing. They have a sales of totaling 100 billion dollars. Conditt is scared that a take over is in hand.

Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am


Fri Feb 26, 1999 5:52 am

I would like to know why Boeing have buy MD?
The strategy went wrong and they (Boeing) are paying for that now.

Mirage, Faro, Portugal
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

RE: Boeing

Fri Feb 26, 1999 6:37 am

Mirage, no offense intended, but the McDonell Douglas buy for Boeing was one of the smartest things they have ever done. Specifically, the military aircraft unit for McD/Boeing is what propped up the profits this past year. Check out some of the stories through CNNfn on the web or other sites which discuss financials. The F-18, F-15, C-17 are in fact quite profitable and Boeing is nicely positioned with Lockheed as one of the worlds 2 largest defense suppliers. This is why you see Europe racing to merge just to keep pace. Airliners were a fraction of the McDonnell Douglas business.
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RE: Navion

Fri Feb 26, 1999 7:07 am

OK Navion, we can separate this into the military side and the commercial side.
The military aircraft unit did make good revenues to Boeing and it was a smart move by Boeing to buy McDonell Douglas and all the military knowledge.
But looking to the commercial planes side, this move have created maybe some conflicts with Boeing product line. The MD-11 is over :( and now this 717 warning...
I think Boeing didn't need the commercial planes knowledge of McDonell Douglas, so my opinion about a not so smart move by Boeing.

Mirage, Faro, Portugal
Posts: 422
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:55 am

RE: 717

Fri Feb 26, 1999 7:32 am

It's only the newspaper's speculation that Boeing MIGHT discontinue the 717 program. No decision has been made regarding the fate of the 717.

The part that Boeing is afraid to be bought by GE is far fetched. I worked for GE before and it would never want to take on such a burden.

You can read the article yourself at www.latimes.com/HOME/BUSINESS.

RE: 717

Fri Feb 26, 1999 8:14 am

Aside from a very smart military pickup I think all Boeing did by purchasing MD was elimate a competitor whos jetliners made Boeings line of jets look better. Now without MDs Some of Boeings jets have lost their luster with the airlines it seems most recently every one has been beating up on the 737 especially. Now that there's just Boeing and Airbus Either Airbuses are looking Much better or Boeings are not looking at as good. Perhaps Boeing may try to sell the 717 to an RJ Manufacturer. Maybe one reason for the 717s slow sales is because it looks like an MD as opposed to a Boeing design. Remember TWA said the only reason they ordered them was because of the fast delivery time.
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RE: 717

Fri Feb 26, 1999 8:18 am

Boeing is by far the largest aircraft manufacturer in the whole world.
Boeing is Boeing.

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RE: 717200 and 717300 ???

Fri Feb 26, 1999 8:43 am

Well this is a topic ! I thinkTWA is wrong about
ordering just because they wanted to get
the aircraft soon. As a struggeling airline you don't just
go out at order 50 aircraft just to get them soon. That
is rediculous ! You just don't laid down the cash that
you don't have just to get new ac's soon. You would
have to be a mule that doesn't have anyknowledge about
the airline business.

About the LATIMES article (thanks for the link JZ!) I
think this is just speculation! Belive me I don't think
Boeing is stupid enough to spend all this time and
money just for some orders and then scrap it. I have
heard (December) That Boeing was looking into
a B717300. Boeing was pissed after coming back
from South America a few weeks ago with no orders
for the B717. But there is still hope! American,Alaska
and some others I can't remebe,r are very interested in
it. Before this B717 project ever took shape many airlines
were interested in it, I wonder what happend to them?
Bad Boeing PR? Probably! B757300 that's a diffrent topic!
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Alaska is not interested

Fri Feb 26, 1999 9:06 am

Alaska may have sent reps. down there to look at it but they want to go to an all 737 fleet. They have a problem with the MD-80's that they already have. Anytime they go north of Seattle they have to be washed down with deicing fluid because of that aircraft tendecy to build ice on the ground. I don't know if the 717 inherited this but Alaska will eventually phase out all of their MD-80's.
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RE: 717200 and 717300 ???

Fri Feb 26, 1999 9:08 am

I agree that it was a smart move for Boeing to pick up the MD defense lines. It would have saved MD some hardship if they had remained independent. Their commerical lines really would have withered by now if they hadn't been bought out: the MD-80 series is outdated, the MD-90s were sales failures, and the MD-11 was doomed by the 777. I thought the 717 was a smart move to make, because there are a lot of DC-9s in the world that need replacing and (after Fokker west bust) the 717 is the only plane in the world capable of replacing them. True, sales are slow, but remember the first plane hasn't even been delivered yet. I think sales will pick up in time.
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RE: 717 expected orders

Fri Feb 26, 1999 9:17 am

Here are all the airlines rumored to be interested in ordering MD-95s (71*s) sometime soon:

Alitalia - 15
Air Canada - ?
Aserca - 13 to 15
Midwest Express - 10
Royal Brunei - ?
Sahara Indian Airlines - 10
GATX Leasing - 15

RE: 717 expected orders

Fri Feb 26, 1999 10:12 am

Just curious... What happened to AirTran? Didn't they have a substantial order for MD95's prior to the Boeing/M-D merger? As I understood it they were to be the launch customer for this type... I know that they might have had second thoughts about purchasing new aircraft after the accident but I thought they had already committed.
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RE: Navion

Fri Feb 26, 1999 10:43 am

I understand your point Mirage. Boeing at the time of the McDonnell buy wanted the space division (including the Delta rocket family), missiles, as well as the military aircraft but I recall at the time Boeing knew the MD80, MD90, and probably the MD11 wouldn't survive. They did try to market the MD11F but the orders weren't large enough to tie up that much capital. As far as your point on the airliner division, you are absolutely right. I think the only difference is I believe (being a Boeing stock shareholder then and now) they never felt there would be much of a future for the Douglas lines. The key to this whole Airbus/Boeing rivalry, it's making them both build much better airplanes. I appreciate your comments.
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RE: Tony

Fri Feb 26, 1999 10:47 am

Yes Air Tran is still the launch customer for the B717
set for 2000, 50 were ordered with 50 more as an option.

Perhaps not only dumping the 717

Fri Feb 26, 1999 12:37 pm

I just read a story on Cnnfn from the St. Louis Post that Phil Condit did in FACT tell industry analysts at a meating in Orlando that Boeing IS considering dropping its 717 program. It is said to be one several unites at Boeing which is draining $3.3Billion from the company annually and net little return. Phil Condit said every program will be scrutinized and "there are no sacred cows". Condit also said the company is looking for new businesses to expand into including airplane servicing, Which for some reason I thought they must have already been involved in to some degree.


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Fri Feb 26, 1999 12:54 pm

The AirTran 717 order (placed by ValuJet for the MD-95) is alive and well. The first 717 for AirTran, in AirTran colors, made it's first flight from Long Beach yesterday (Feb 24). The aircraft will be participating in the 717 flight test program, and is expected to be delivered to AirTran by the end of the summer. The order 50 orders and 50 options.
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717 Doomed Not Likely.

Sat Feb 27, 1999 6:30 am

What news. Great Anti-Boeing propaganda from a Calfifornia based Newspaper. Didn't there used to be a big aerospace company in CA?:) Anyway, I doubt that the 717 is doomed. Let us remember a little aircraft that started off the same with with an order for I believe 10 from Lufthansa. A yes, the 737 the plane that was almost cancelled twice. My how it has grown. And as for the 737 getting beat lately? The 737NGs are the FASTEST SELLING AIRCRAFT OF ALL TIME. No ifs and or buts.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:00 am

RE: 717 Doomed Not Likely.

Sat Feb 27, 1999 8:26 am

The 717, like the DC-9 and MD-80, is ugly. It'd better be killed. Why the hell did Boeing waste time and money in that stupid airplane? They didn't have to !
I hate the DC-9.
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:02 am

RE: 717 Doomed Not Likely.

Sat Feb 27, 1999 8:55 am

If I remember right, the 757 was also very slow to take off. Eastern had the first ones, then Delta had a few, and that was it for a while. Then they started selling like wildfire. Maybe Boeing will remember this before they kill the 717.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B

AA727 has some issues

Sat Feb 27, 1999 10:05 am

the DC9/MD80/MD90/B717 is an unusual looking plane, to be sure. To call it ugly and stupid is a bit imature if you ask me.

The 717 family has the advantage to being the one arliner able to fly into airports with the most stringent sound limits. For this reason it will be important to some airlines for some routes. It probably won't outsell some of its competitors, but it is flying and will soon be put into service where some of its competitors, in the short haul low noise market, are still on the drawing board.

It also can replace ageing DC9's with a familiar yet advanced plane.

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