rwylie77
Posts: 322
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BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Why do BA staff insist on destroying a truly great airline?

BA staff have gone on strike so much in the last couple of years, I am not prepared to take the risk anymore when booking flights.

I travel a lot around Europe on business and the US for business and pleasure, and as a result I always fly now on EasyJet short haul and American Airlines from LHR to the US. EasyJet staff are always happy - and American Airlines staff just get on with it, knowing they need to do their best to save the airline and preserve their jobs.

Why don't BA staff recognise that striking is hurting the business on the day they strike in lost revenue, but also in permanantly pushing people away in the long run? Doing everything they can to improve profitability will enable the airline to provide job satisfaction and improve benefits. Stiking will hurt the airline, and they will complain even more when they are being made redundant as a result of their actions.

Thoughts?
 
kretek
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:07 pm

I decided this a long time ago. I just find BA and LHR unreliable, too prone to incidents whether they are strikes or threats. And you don't want to be stuck in a hell-hole like LHR. I have avoided BA and LHR as much as possible. I now fly from Bristol which is much more convenient and less hassles, either with Easyjet or KLM.
Furthermore, Amsterdam Schiphol is such a pleasure to transit at!
 
sam1987
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:14 pm

I think the acts of the Transport and General Workers' Union is quite frankly wrong. Striking is incredibly selfish.

They should sort it out sensibly - by negotiating round a table. If they are not happy with their working conditions (which aren't actually that bad) then they should go and work for a different airline. BA is a world class airline and the employees should be more grateful for the privileges they receive.

BA's reputation gets badly damaged by such acts so, in the long term, cabin crew may be shooting themselves in the foot.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
Stiking will hurt the airline, and they will complain even more when they are being made redundant as a result of their actions.

Couldn't agree with you more. Seen too many airlines go down, due to strikes etc. BA is no different.I would hate to see BA (BOAC, Better On A Camel, just using the old nickname) go down the tubes. I say to both sides end it now before disaster strikes you all down, they are airlines out there just waiting to snap up your routes
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
ANother
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:17 pm

Even at the 'best of times' LHR and BA are unreliable. We flew into LHR yesterday morning. Parked at a remote stand ... no-body to drive the stairs to the aircraft. Captain tried to joke it off, suggested we sit down because it could take 5 minutes, it took 10.

Oh, could you kindly wait for a couple more minutes please? The buses haven't arrived, another 10 mins.

On the buses, have to drive all the way to the end of T4 before we can turn around and drive half way back. But we get into a queue at the end. At least another 8 or 9 buses ahead of us. Another 15 mins.

Not much of a queue at immigration, but another 15 mins. Didn't check a bag, so didn't have to wait for that. Over an hour between landing and leaving the terminal.

And you know what, besides the Captain nobody seemed to care - this was just 'normal'.
 
EGBJ
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:33 pm

The costs in lost revenue from these strikes will be less that what it will cost BA in the long run if they give into the requests......
 
ARGinLON
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
I travel a lot around Europe on business and the US for business and pleasure, and as a result I always fly now on EasyJet short haul and American Airlines from LHR to the US. EasyJet staff are always happy - and American Airlines staff just get on with it, knowing they need to do their best to save the airline and preserve their jobs

Sure, it's annoying going through a strike as a passenger but the service on BA (at least in my opinion) is way better than AA and/or U2. They don't come even close to BA's standard.

I won't touch the strike issue because I agree with you but in terms of service/product I will stick with BA 100%

AA has tons of labour issues with its pilots. In fact, this was probably the reason why they dind't get the China rights two weeks ago.
 
cainanuk
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
Why do BA staff insist on destroying a truly great airline?

Why do BA insist on shitting on their staff and continually changing their conditions to be worse that they were? Why should the BA Cabin Crew and other staff continually put up with it?

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 2):
I think the acts of the Transport and General Workers' Union is quite frankly wrong. Striking is incredibly selfish.

And so is forcing sick workers to come and work. What is selfish about a group of employees, united as one standing up to fat cat management and saying "NO!! WE WON'T TAKE THAT ANYMORE!!" If it was one or a few individuals striking then yeah. In this case over 9000 staff were balloted and less that 50 people voted aginst strike action. Sounds to me like fundamental flaw in the way the business is being run.

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 2):
They should sort it out sensibly - by negotiating round a table. If they are not happy with their working conditions (which aren't actually that bad) then they should go and work for a different airline. BA is a world class airline and the employees should be more grateful for the privileges they receive.

Now no offense intended here but you have not a lot of life experience or work experience behind you. I am not a BA staff member. I in fact work for a competing airline, but, I too am a trade unionist and I know a lot of these folks and I can assure you they dont fancy walking a picket line. The vast majority of these staff have families to feed, mortgages to pay etc etc... BA continues to erode their compensation package by continually felching the pension fund that many staff have paid into for years and will see little if any return on. The BA staff are tired of trying to talk sensibly. What would you know about BA's working conditions? There is more to conditions than concessions and free or cheap flights. Furthermore, what other airline would you reccomend a 15-20 year senior crew member just drop trou and go work for? I think that Willie "The Chopper" Walsh has wrecked any goodwill the employees had. BA may have once been world class but hey, the PanAm staff all thought their company was world class too. Where did that get them?
Cainan Cornelius
 
rwylie77
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 6):
AA has tons of labour issues with its pilots. In fact, this was probably the reason why they dind't get the China rights two weeks ago.

I don't ever fly from the US to China, so not too upset about that. But more importantly, the AA pilots do not go on strike even, as you say, when they have "tons of labour issues" - they look for other ways to resolve the issue that won't damage the airline that feeds them.

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 6):
Sure, it's annoying going through a strike as a passenger but the service on BA (at least in my opinion) is way better than AA and/or U2. They don't come even close to BA's standard.

Yes the service is better on BA, but at the end of the day, I would rather be on a plane that gets where I want to go and on time, and just have average service. Yes I complain to my wife all the time when the AA cabin crew are unhelpful and make you feel in the way, but at least I know they will get me there and I won't have to hang around in a tent for two days at LHR due to a sudden strike.

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 5):
The costs in lost revenue from these strikes will be less that what it will cost BA in the long run if they give into the requests......

Yes, exactly why BA should not give in! But why should BA even consider giving into requests from staff? If they did, they would be getting requests every week from their staff demanding more money! And the staff do very well anyway! As for sick days, I have not taken a day off sick in five years, and BA staff are complaining about only being allowed 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The staff should just get on with working hard and not striking - if they had done this, there would not have been such a hole in their pension for example. If they had not gone on the wild cat strikes last year, all of a sudden there is another £100million that could have gone into the pension plan. Everybody at BA needs to recognise that if the business is successful, everybody will have a big pension, job security and the ability to see earnings grow. Damaging their business does the opposite.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
And so is forcing sick workers to come and work

Why should 12 days a year sick be acceptable? Its taking the piss.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:09 am

To add to my previous post -

CBI figures for 2006 show an average absenteeism rate in the private sector of about 6 days.

For 2004 it was 7.2 days.

Now tell me BA staff arent taking the piss?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5052160.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4045221.stm
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=722742006

[Edited 2007-01-25 16:10:37]
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
Why do BA insist on shitting on their staff and continually changing their conditions to be worse that they were? Why should the BA Cabin Crew and other staff continually put up with it?

As I read it the employees agreed to the new sickness terms, and were paid a one off £1000 in exchange for this.
Now they want certain ailments to be exempt from the 12 days; these including colds and ingrowing toenails.

Are they proposing to hand back the £1000 ?

Sickness is sickness, how can you make a distinction ?.

In my experience, there is usually no quibble from management regarding serious illness, as its usually fairly obvious that the employee has the condition, and that they are unfit for work.

The problem is normally with the quick illnesses (coughs, colds bit of back strain etc) for which staff take a few days off. With these the member of staff shows no symptoms prior to taking the time off, and shows no symptoms on returning.

Its a known fact that a proportion of employees in most organisations take advantage of this to secure extra leave, and management normally monitor this to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand.

It is interesting that its precisely these short illnesses that the union wants to exempt from the calculations.

Obviously BASSA wants them exempted because they feel that BA is accusing the staff of skiving, and BA wants them included because they think the staff are skiving. Thus it could be said that both BA and BASSA are in agreement !!!!
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:29 am

Got to agree, TGWU are taking the p*ss. Before this new absence regime (Which has been in place 18 months) the average amount of time off sick for a BA worker was 22 days! It's now down to 12, still way above the average. And TGWU want certain conditions 'exempted' from being classed as requiring taking sick leave, including ingrowing toenails and Conjunctivitis. Sorry, why should that be? I work on the railways, I come into contact with hundreds of people daily (More than cabin crew will), I have a safety critical role to perform, yet if I go sick I still expect to be subject to my company's sickness policy. I've no sympathy with them over this, nor the separate disgruntlement over pensions where they want to reture in their 50s still. Sorry, it's not an option anymore.

But hey, strike, damage your company's reputation yet again. Put people off booking with you. A few more of these three day strikes and wonder why loads - and yields - are down in the coming months as families don't want their holidays disrupted, as bussiness people don't want to risk missing that meeting or conferance.

I also can't help noticing it's TGWU involved again. They were involved in the Air Gourmet dispute, which spilled over into the wildcat strike by BA groundstaff in 'sympathy'.

If someone is legitimately ill, and they feel pressured into comoing to work, they should refuse. Get the Union involved at the Return to work stage if they feel they've a grievance, complain about individuals. If it's valid, tackle it that way. Don't shaft the people who pay your wages, because frankly there is little sympathy for you out there.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
sam1987
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
In this case over 9000 staff were balloted and less that 50 people voted aginst strike action.

What is the total number of cabin crew who work for BA?

I wonder how many of the 8,500 were pressured.

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
What would you know about BA's working conditions?

Not much. But I do know that striking is selfish in whatever circumstances.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
Why should 12 days a year sick be acceptable?



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 12):
It's now down to 12, still way above the average.



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 12):
the average amount of time off sick for a BA worker was 22 days! It's now down to 12, still way above the average.

Correct.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
rwylie77
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
BA may have once been world class but hey, the PanAm staff all thought their company was world class too. Where did that get them?

Exactly...bankrupt. And BA could easily join them if their staff constantly follow their unions advice. All unions do is destroy businesses who are feeding their members - unions should recognise that their members will get more from their company if their company is successful.
 
LGW
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:48 am

Please stop generalise by saying "BA staff" it is one section of the airline not all, judging by staff reaction to the strike action outside the cabin crew bubble they are as annoyed, frustrated and unhappy as the poor passengers who are inconvenienced by this action.
 
rwylie77
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting LGW (Reply 15):
Please stop generalise by saying "BA staff" it is one section of the airline not all, judging by staff reaction to the strike action outside the cabin crew bubble they are as annoyed, frustrated and unhappy as the poor passengers who are inconvenienced by this action.

Very valid point, I apologise for my generalisation earlier to all of those non-cabin crew staff.
 
cainanuk
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:58 am

I too apologize but I find it laughable that some teenager is on here preaching to me how I am a big bad trade unionist and that employees should just let their employers roll them. Come see me in a few years Junior when you have hungry mouths to feed and a mortgage to pay. I am not saying that every thing that the BASSA members are complaining about is righteous and the amount of sick days is possibly taking the piss, but, collective bargaining ensures that those who actually work for the profits at least have a fighting chance of getting their fair share!
Cainan Cornelius
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 17):
too apologize but I find it laughable that some teenager is on here preaching to me how I am a big bad trade unionist and that employees should just let their employers

Again Ithink that even though you might disagree with the teenager, he might have some valid points. Been in many union negotiations, have been in many strikes as management and had to listen to many union complaints, guess I am just old fashioned, if we can't reach an agreement that is satisfactory to all go on strike. I will be waiting when you come back if there is still a business open and you will be damn sure that I will follow the contract to the letter of the law, no time off to do anything, no leaving early even if there is nothing to do and I will find something so I can fire the person that cause the problem. There are two sides to every coin, but you have not seen my other side until you push my buttons. Just hope the Ba can stand the strike and will recover
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
cainanuk
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:39 am

Well, as I stated before, I do NOT work for BA. I just sympathize with them and can understand their points.
Cainan Cornelius
 
rwylie77
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 17):
I too apologize but I find it laughable that some teenager is on here preaching to me how I am a big bad trade unionist and that employees should just let their employers roll them. Come see me in a few years Junior when you have hungry mouths to feed and a mortgage to pay. I am not saying that every thing that the BASSA members are complaining about is righteous and the amount of sick days is possibly taking the piss, but, collective bargaining ensures that those who actually work for the profits at least have a fighting chance of getting their fair share!

Not sure if you were referring to me, but I am not a teenager, I am 30 with a wife and children to feed, and a hefty mortgage associated with living in the south east of England. I pay by bills by ensuring I am working for a company I have confidence will be a success and will pay me fairly. If I was unsure of these factors, I would look for a job elsewhere with a company I felt secure with - going on strike is the last thing I would do. I also buy shares in the company I work for, further enhancing my ability to get a fair share of any profits generated through my and others hard work. Accept that capitalism works, and work with the system, and you will be rewarded.
 
sam1987
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:22 am

Interesting point raised on the BBC News website (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5392&start=0&&&edition=1&ttl=20070125192015)

"I am a BA crew member. I and the majority of my colleagues would prefer a negotiated settlement to this dispute".
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
christopherwoo
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
EasyJet staff are always happy

Thanks! we do our best!

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
no-body to drive the stairs to the aircraft. Captain tried to joke it off, suggested we sit down because it could take 5 minutes, it took 10.

Oh, could you kindly wait for a couple more minutes please? The buses haven't arrived, another 10 mins.

On the buses, have to drive all the way to the end of T4 before we can turn around and drive half way back. But we get into a queue at the end. At least another 8 or 9 buses ahead of us. Another 15 mins.

Not much of a queue at immigration, but another 15 mins. Didn't check a bag, so didn't have to wait for that. Over an hour between landing and leaving the terminal.

And you know what, besides the Captain nobody seemed to care - this was just 'normal'.

But that happens with any airline! It very much depends what airport you're at. Easyjet use serviceair and they do their best but sometimes delays happen where there has been a breakdown in communication or just another problem! it has nothing to do with the airline! Its just part of air travel. It happens. Especially at places like Heathrow and Gatwick!  Smile believe me i know!

Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 8):
I have not taken a day off sick in five years, and BA staff are complaining about only being allowed 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
Why should 12 days a year sick be acceptable? Its taking the piss.

You have to remember that operating as Cabincrew, is a very different job from any others on the ground. If you have a cold, you will still come into work if you work on the ground. When you work in the air, blocked ears can end your career and can put you in agony! Any effect of illness that you have is multiplied in effect several times when at 39,000 ft! Thats why Cabincrew sick days are more than many.
 
bastew
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 8):
Quoting EGBJ (Reply 5):
The costs in lost revenue from these strikes will be less that what it will cost BA in the long run if they give into the requests......

Yes, exactly why BA should not give in! But why should BA even consider giving into requests from staff? If they did, they would be getting requests every week from their staff demanding more money! And the staff do very well anyway! As for sick days, I have not taken a day off sick in five years, and BA staff are complaining about only being allowed 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The costing that was made by an independent accountancy firm for the BASSA union in regards to their demand was £10m p.a.
 
ANother
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 22):
But that happens with any airline! It very much depends what airport you're at. Easyjet use serviceair and they do their best but sometimes delays happen where there has been a breakdown in communication or just another problem! it has nothing to do with the airline! Its just part of air travel. It happens. Especially at places like Heathrow and Gatwick!   believe me i know!

No, I don't think so. It was the whole attitude. The 'stair driver' didn't hustle, he sorta wandered over from somewhere. As I say it was the attitude, nobody cared less, nobody wanted to take responsibility, to take ownership and get the problems sorted out.

No, I'm going to try other hubs - off to Singapore week after next and have booked AF. Will try star as well before deciding who to give my business to.
 
christopherwoo
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:14 am

RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 24):
The 'stair driver' didn't hustle

He's a ground service man, Nothing to do with BA!! Im easyjet, i'm not defending them without reason! but it annoys me when people come on and complain about the baggage belt breaking down or it being very slow through security as though its the airlines fault.
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting LGW (Reply 15):
Please stop generalise by saying "BA staff" it is one section of the airline not all, judging by staff reaction to the strike action outside the cabin crew bubble they are as annoyed, frustrated and unhappy as the poor passengers who are inconvenienced by this action.

A very valid point. My colleagues and I are as frustrated as our passengers and are trying everything we can to help them out.
I just hope the crew realise that they could be shooting themselves in the foot! If BA go bankrupt because of 'their' actions then who's going to pay their mortagages and what are they going to do when theyl have work for an airline who's working conditions aren't as good as BA's

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
PilotRecruit
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 26):
I just hope the crew realise that they could be shooting themselves in the foot! If BA go bankrupt because of 'their' actions then who's going to pay their mortagages and what are they going to do when theyl have work for an airline who's working conditions aren't as good as BA's

I find it amazing that they are willing to gamble their jobs on a few things which will make their jobs marginally better. I've never seen so many people willing to play a game which will no longer have a desirable outcome...

Based on the messages that have been posted, BA customers are fed up with the unreliability and I fear that the damage has already been done. The flights have been cancelled, therefore the effects will be felt. With the competitiveness of the airline industry, the bottom line must be very watched very carefully, i know i don't have to tell this to the people who frequent this site, but my point is that the revenue is already lost and guess how you turn the red into black? Cut the excess. I can only forsee majors layoffs as BA tries to recover.

You guys don't want 4 pursers on your 747's? Looks like you might get that regardless...

My  twocents 
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
jacobin777
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting PilotRecruit (Reply 27):
Based on the messages that have been posted, BA customers are fed up with the unreliability and I fear that the damage has already been done.

It already has for me at least..I stopped flying BA for many years and just started a few weeks ago..but I'm just about sure my next J-class ticket isn't going to BA..its going to back to EK..
"Up the Irons!"
 
gh123
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
Why don't BA staff recognise that striking is hurting the business on the day they strike in lost revenue, but also in permanantly pushing people away in the long run? Doing everything they can to improve profitability will enable the airline to provide job satisfaction and improve benefits. Stiking will hurt the airline, and they will complain even more when they are being made redundant as a result of their actions.

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Rwylie77 (Thread starter):
Why do BA staff insist on destroying a truly great airline?

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
Why do BA insist on shitting on their staff and continually changing their conditions to be worse that they were?

Well I think that an average of 22 days of sick leave is the staff shitting on British Airways. It is pathetic. BA isn't a charity, it is a company.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
Why should 12 days a year sick be acceptable? Its taking the piss.


 checkmark   checkmark 
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 pm

Interesting article in yesterdays Financial Times where an analyist said BA Cabin Crew should do a simple test. Ask themselves if they can spell "PanAm", "Swissair", "Sabena", and if they get them right add "P45". Basically was a way of saying with US Carriers always seeming to have the option to drop into Chapter 11, Other European carriers forging ahead with alliances and hubs unconstrained like LHR, the emergence of the longhaul hubs in the Middle East, and the generally well run nature of Far Eastern carriers, BA is a miracle of survival. But if Cabin Crew, or other sections of BA who've striked in the past, want to see BA in the past tense, carry on striking.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:15 pm

Gee, I wish I'd get a £1000 ($2300 CAD) bonus for "only" calling in sick 12 days or less per year  Yeah sure


Kris
 
albird87
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:42 pm

Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 8):
But more importantly, the AA pilots do not go on strike even, as you say, when they have "tons of labour issues"

Hah tell that to me when i had to re-book completely to get from EDI-GCM when my origional routeing of AA was (BA, EDI-LHR, AA LHR-MIA-GCM) and to get on anyflight in such short notice i had to go to LGW and then get the direct flight on BCAL (in those days she operated the route along with flying colours) so it was LGW-NAS-GCM and in NAS the plane needed servicing!!

Now i know it was been a while since AA have gone on strike but Bill Clinton sorted them out to get them back to work!!
 
BCAL
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:56 pm

The whole episode of BA cabin crews’ strike action, and union intervention, takes me back to the pre-Thatcher days when unions ruled the country. After Thatcher, the unions were temporarily replaced by “health and safety” rules and regulations but unionism and militants are again popping up quicker than the daffodils.

BA has to get its house in order, trim costs and build up sufficient reserves in order to survive and remain strong, competitive and have funds available to fund future expansion, fleet renewal etc.

I do not know all the disputed issues but two are very much at the forefront – pensions and sick leave. As for the pension issues, BA cabin crew are not alone. Apart from civil servants and fat cats, the majority of people are asking, “Where has my pension gone?” I have saved for years hoping to enjoy a retirement without financial worries when I reach 65, and thought when I was in my 20/30s that saving for my pension was more important than annual holidays. My pension is now almost worthless and, as far as I can see, I cannot afford to retire until I am 75 or older. It is simply due to bad management on the part of the pension company, and repeated attacks by the present government to ransack private pensions with extra tax charges. Whilst I am worrying, the directors of the pension company are being awarded with severance pay packets worth millions, and the government ministers do not have to worry about their pensions.

12 days sick leave? Assuming a 5-day working week, that is almost 2.5 weeks every year. I would love to stay at home when I simply have a cold/flu, but I have bills to pay so unless I am really, really ill, I must go into work and suffer. To be able to take a week off work due to a minor ailment like athlete’s foot is laughable.

I have heard many stories about labour issues at LHR, some that are unbelievable. Their work practices and perks must be the envy of many people and, if they do not get their own way, they can simply strike and let the pax suffer. They seem to forget that the pax pay their wages.

I am, however, on the cabin crew’s side on one issue. If the management are genuine and feel that the pension issues etc are serious, why do they not take the initiative and similarly cut their own pensions and perks? How can they justify to thousands of BA staff that there is no money to put into their pensions deficit when the present CEO and ex-CEOs are pocketing millions for their own pensions? Unless they too “suffer,” they cannot expect those under them to be willing to make sacrifices.

That the present situation has got this far clearly demonstrates that relations between BA management and staff are bad. Have BA managers always stayed in touch with staff and kept them fully in the picture regarding the airline and the future? I remember from the days of British Caledonian, an independent and then the second-largest UK carrier that merged with BA in the 1980s, that during the entire life of the airline not a single day was lost through labour disputes because the management always involved the staff in decisions, and kept them fully up-to-date on all issues.

VS are being very quiet. Given that they always like to treat BA with the utmost contempt, they should be laughing at BA’s predicament and rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of BA pax deflecting to them during strike days. Strange this. Could it be something because VS does not want it known that they do not recognise unions?
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 33):
I am, however, on the cabin crew’s side on one issue. If the management are genuine and feel that the pension issues etc are serious, why do they not take the initiative and similarly cut their own pensions and perks? How can they justify to thousands of BA staff that there is no money to put into their pensions deficit when the present CEO and ex-CEOs are pocketing millions for their own pensions? Unless they too “suffer,” they cannot expect those under them to be willing to make sacrifices

I understand from a recent newspaper article that all new BA staff (including Willie Walsh) are part of the latest money purchase pension scheme, which has less favourable terms than the disputed one
 
challiday
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:54 pm

Kind of a mixed post for the topic but I'm going to post it anyway - just because I can... :P

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 2):
I think the acts of the Transport and General Workers' Union is quite frankly wrong.

I kind of agree, however, I don't know the complete ins and outs. The media machines are all telling the general public that it's over pay and sick days (so I'll just post about that as it's not my place to talk about anything more). Now, from my point of view as an office employee taking 22 sick days a year would frankly get me sacked. I can completely understand why BA has a problem with this, and yes I know it's an average. With the new rules in place BA has managed to just about half that average down to 12, which again, from my point of view is high but not unmanageable. All that being said, ones work place has to be taken into account. If you have a cold, flu, etc by going to work you're inevitably going to be passing that on to passengers. So I believe some discretion has to be taken.

With regards to pay, I again can understand why a "starting" salary of around £10,000 would get some peoples backs up. That's a pretty low starting wage but I don't see what right that gives for strike action. When the a job is offered to you your told what your salary will be - you choose to accept that salary or not. What right do you have to accept that salary and then proceed to complain and strike about it? What about the other perks of the job, discounted travel, seeing parts of the world that others only dream about. I know it's not an easy job, dealing with the public never is and before some one posts it I know that turn around times mean that you don't have long stays, however that's missing my point.

By calling 48 hours of strike action with a company that is holding its head above water in an industry where even the dullest of needles could pop the balloon is causing more problems then good. BA has enough to deal with at the moment between Fog problems in December, Baggage staff shortages cause major problems, pension problems, and a move to a new terminal - they don't need this on top of everything else. It's a delicate balance on top of a very slippery slop, and it's a steep fall.

Fingers crossed it all gets worked out before the action is taken.

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
Even at the 'best of times' LHR and BA are unreliable.

I believe you'll see the vast majority of these problems corrected with our move to terminal 5. In fact, it's these problems that prompted BA to want it's own terminal.

Just my two cents - nothing more.

Col
 
AJMIA
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 7):
And so is forcing sick workers to come and work.

How many sick days do they currently get a year?

I accrue five sick days per year at AA.
If I do not use them, I bank them.
I had spine surgery in 2004 but since I hardly had used any sick days in the past, I had plenty of sick time to be paid for the three months that I was out of work. Since my surgery in Jan-Mar '04 I have not taken a single sick day. I want to build up my sick bank in the event I really need it.

What are the other issues in contention?

I have heard the number of pursers on a 747...
Getting paid travel time to/from hotels...
Meal allowance money...

But everything I have heard has been colored with labor or management opions. It would be nice to have the facts laid flat out.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 21):
"I am a BA crew member. I and the majority of my colleagues would prefer a negotiated settlement to this dispute".

Then why did the majority vote in favour of a strike? confused 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Challiday (Reply 35):
I know it's not an easy job, dealing with the public never is and before some one posts it I know that turn around times mean that you don't have long stays, however that's missing

I managed Hotels for 35 years and we didn't have the people with us for 10-15 hours, we usually had them for 14 to 21 days and I know what dealing with the public is like, but that is no excuse for causing problems. When you do that kind of job you know what you are in for, if you don't like it leave, but don't strike. The pay scale is low I agree
but look at the perks, but at the same time, they knew that when they were hired, so why bitch now, it seems to me crying over spilt milk
I have never liked Unions as I see they only take the members money and then go on strike, who are the losers in this?
In the 35 years I worked I never took a day off work, had a injured back and couldn't walk, so I used a wheelchair to get around, I know that FA'S can't do that but that is an extreme case. Had pneumonia and worked with 104 temp.
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777STL
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
Even at the 'best of times' LHR and BA are unreliable. We flew into LHR yesterday morning. Parked at a remote stand ... no-body to drive the stairs to the aircraft. Captain tried to joke it off, suggested we sit down because it could take 5 minutes, it took 10.

Oh, could you kindly wait for a couple more minutes please? The buses haven't arrived, another 10 mins.

On the buses, have to drive all the way to the end of T4 before we can turn around and drive half way back. But we get into a queue at the end. At least another 8 or 9 buses ahead of us. Another 15 mins.

In all fairness, I've had an identical experience with Easyjet at LGW...
PHX based
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 22):
You have to remember that operating as Cabincrew, is a very different job from any others on the ground. If you have a cold, you will still come into work if you work on the ground. When you work in the air, blocked ears can end your career and can put you in agony! Any effect of illness that you have is multiplied in effect several times when at 39,000 ft! Thats why Cabincrew sick days are more than many.

I think that's quite a good point, unfortunately it hasn't been adressed by any of the other posters.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 37):
Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 21):
"I am a BA crew member. I and the majority of my colleagues would prefer a negotiated settlement to this dispute".

Then why did the majority vote in favour of a strike?

My thoughts exactly.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
BCAL
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 37):
Then why did the majority vote in favour of a strike?

Maybe a very quick history lesson on union power might help?

In a nutshell, some union bosses, or employees who are in favour of strike action, can resort to bullying and intimidation. If they tell their members to strike, or vote for a strike, it takes a brave person who disagrees to stand up for himself or herself. When the strike is over, they will be working with the bullies and consequently the work atmosphere might be unpleasant. A.net members in the UK might have come across the name Scargill and "scabs" in their history. US members will recall the teamsters led by Hoffa.

Of course, the BA cabin crew are more professional than coal miners and teamsters so bullying should be nothing like it was in the past. However, observing the gang leaders in the room when the results of the ballot were announced, as shown on the TV news channels, showed that there could still be a handful of modern-day Hoffas and Scargills around.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
gkirk
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:00 am

Stop calling them BA! Their real name is LA (London Airways)  Wink  duck 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 41):
Maybe a very quick history lesson on union power might help?

Thanks, but it's not necessary.  wave 

I worked at BA though the worst union-dominated times in the mid 70s. Yes, in the old days it took a brave person to not put their hand up when your shop floor steward and colleagues were standing right next to you.

Are not strike ballots now done by paper votes to avoid exactly this type of intimidation?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
rb211-524h
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:11 pm

There goes my chance of getting a not-overcrowded flight on Tuesday - BA now has to scramble to pay up big to QF, CX and probably VS to rebook all the stranded BA passengers onto rival carriers (starting off with oneworld members first then moving on) for the busy SYD-LHR flights. I was looking forward to a half empty A346 on VS201, now I will have to put up with the BA crowd who were formerly thumbing their noses at me for being a virgin flyer. :P
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 44):
BA now has to scramble to pay up big to QF, CX and probably VS to rebook all the stranded BA passengers onto rival carriers (starting off with oneworld members first then moving on) for the busy SYD-LHR flights. I was looking forward to a half empty A346 on VS201, now I will have to put up with the BA crowd who were formerly thumbing their noses at me for being a virgin flyer. :P

BA are rebooking passengers who's flights have been cancelled on 30/31 January onto a lot of different airlines.
Of course the One World carriers are the first to be booked on but carriers such as UA/VS/SQ/BD/LH/EK/EY/AF/MS/JL

Basically a lot of BA's high value customers are getting to sample the quality cabins of some other airline, mostly Star alliance carriers
There's flying and then there's flying
 
LHR777
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 25):
He's a ground service man, Nothing to do with BA!! Im easyjet, i'm not defending them without reason! but it annoys me when people come on and complain about the baggage belt breaking down or it being very slow through security as though its the airlines fault.

Actually, everything to do with BA. The so-called "ground service man" is a BA employee, in a BA uniform. Just because EasyJet don't do their own ground-handling, doesn't mean other airlines don't as well! The "steps" guy has to drive a Land Rover from stand to stand, putting steps on and off aircraft.

Unfortunately, BA has cut-back on this role, and where there used to be maybe 4-5 steps crews on per shift, there are now only 1 or 2. Some of the distances covered between LHR Terminal 4 stands are huge, like stand 441 to 432, which involves crossing 3 active taxi-ways and can take anything from 3 minutes to maybe 15, depending on aircraft movements.

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
On the buses, have to drive all the way to the end of T4 before we can turn around and drive half way back. But we get into a queue at the end.

Sorry, but LHR does not run like a well-oiled swiss timepiece. It's not a ZRH or GVA, but an airfield with some 60+ years of history and infrastructure and obviously has it's failings. It has a long way to go to get 'back up there' with the best of them, in terms of overall service levels, but as an airport, it really is trying hard to be better.

Driving a bus to the end of T4 and back to the coaching arrival gate (nowhere near 'half-way back') isn't BA's fault. They didn't design the terminal, or indeed the one-way airside roadway system.
 
varig_dc10
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:49 pm

On Tuesday I'm flying back to the NCL from JNB. It will be the eigth return trip I will have done on that route in the last eighteen months. Four of which have been via LHR.

The last time I came through LHR was in October when I flew with Virgin between JNB and LHR, then BA from LHR to NCL. Unfortunatley the LHR to NCL flight was cancelled and I ended up getting to NCL via ABZ. To add insult to injury, BA took three days to get my checked baggage back to me.

After all the problems that BA have had with strikes and fog, then all the security problems at Heathrow, I made the decision to avoid LHR if possible.

Normally I really like the service you get on BA and VS. I don't mind LHR as an airport either. In fact I much prefer it to CDG and find it more interesting than AMS. If it hadn't been for all these problems with BA and LHR, I could quite easily have been flying via LHR on Tuesday.

Thankfully I'm flying LH via FRA and DUS instead.

varig_dc10
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:07 pm

BA Cabin Crew strikes called off!!!!!

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
RichardPrice
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RE: BA Strike Again - Why I Fly AA And EasyJet

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 41):
A.net members in the UK might have come across the name Scargill and "scabs" in their history

If its the miners strike you are referring to - not a good advert for unions here, since it was 100% illegal (no vote was called by the miners union, it was just declared that a strike would take effect which was against the law at the time).

It was a disgusting show of force by the National Union of Miners that ultimately failed.