LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:16 pm

Top 30 Brazilian Airports
-----------------------

1- Congonhas/CGH.......18.459.191
2- Guarulhos/GRU.........15.689.302
3- Brasilia/BSB..............9.699.911
4- Galeão/GIG...............8.741.225
5- Salvador/SSA............5.411.395
6- Recife/REC................3.953.845
7- Porto Alegre/POA.......3.846.508
8- Confins/CNF..............3.727.501
9- Santos Dumont/SDU..3.553.177
10- Curitiba/CWB..........3.532.234
11- Fortaleza/FOR.........3.282.689
12- Belem/BEL..............1.776.008
13- Manaus/MAO...........1.689.817
14- Vitoria/VIX..............1.661.192
15- Florianopolis/FLN......1.630.141
16- Natal/NAT...............1.391.956
17- Goiânia/GYN...........1.376.383
18- Cuiaba/CGB..............931.431
19- Campinas/VCP..........826.246
19- Pampulha/PLU...........800.940
20- Sao Luis/SLZ.............740.916
21- Foz do Iguacu/IGU.... 731.312
22- Campo Grande/CGR..718.215
23- Aracaju/AJU..............589.719
24- Londrina/LDB............518.396
25- Uberlandia/UDI.........483.978
26- Macapa/MCP.............480.377
27- Navegantes/NVT........466.772
28- Joao Pessoa/JPA........415.648
29- Teresina/THE.............380.440
30- Macaé/MEA................366.778

Notes:
-------

Strong growing on SSA, FOR and CNF (this one because of the flight reallocation from PLU during 2004) over 2005 numbers.

Major airports face little growing during 2005 (CGH +7%, BSB +2%, GIG +2%) or even a little loss of pax (GRU -2%)

SSA become one of the major South American Airports, probably one of the top 10 airports. It's also shows how strong is the demand for the Northeast of Brazil (SSA, FOR, REC, NAT, AJU, MCZ, SLZ, THE, JPA and some others)

Cargo:
------

1- GRU................ 517,000t (-1%)
2- VCP................ 177,000t (-1%)
3- MAO............... 157,000t (+ 10%)
4- GIG................ 127,800t (+1%)
5- SSA................ 89,300t (+1%)
6- REC................ 72,000t (+5%)
7- BSB................ 57,100t (-55%)
8- FOR.................43,200t (+4%)
9- POA.................41,800t (-14%)
10- CGH..............39,485t (-11%)

Cargo faces a year of little growing on mostly airports. MAO probably because of the high demand of Plasma TV and other electronics during the World Cup (Brazilians use to buy new Televisions on the World Cup Year) faces a major growing.

With important projects to begin during 2007, we can expect a better year for cargo in Brazil.

Problems during 2006:
---------------------

RG crisis and ATC problems during 2006 produced some reduction on the demand for domestic flights (ATC) and by mid-2006 a strong reduction on international flights offer (mainly to the US and Europe) which also could explain GRU drop and GIG slow growing during the past year. RG use to run their int'l hub from GRU and domestic hub at GIG.

2007:
-----

The biggest improvement on Airports will be the newly and renovated SDU (i have to say, i don't like the new airport... SDU is nice in the way it's always was.. walking to the plane looking for ALL sides, i'm confident and sure, it's very nice, probably one OR the top view in an airport). SDU will add 5,0 million pax capacity to the system (don't ask me why... i really don't know...IMO, better to do a major improvement on GIG TPS1!)

GYN and VIX will also receive brand new terminals with more comfort.

GRU TPS3: Considering the terms of the law (bid, RIMA license), probably we will see the beginning of the new terminal by September/07.

CGH: Runway to be closed running april/may for improvements.


Enjoy!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:13 pm

That is amazing that both Rio airports don't even add up to just one of Sao Paulo's airports!
Delete this User
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:04 pm

Lipe: tks for bringing the numbers.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Major airports face little growing during 2005 (CGH +7%, BSB +2%, GIG +2%) or even a little loss of pax (GRU -2%)

GRU decreased -2% because of RG's demise. It could be said that numbers are surprising giving that RG removed more than 1.2million seats from GRU airport alone - of course, we could see that other airlines have gradually seized the market.

In the other hand, BSB is an airport which has plenty of potential, especially because of the new runaway. BSB's growth of only +2% was because of bottleneck created by the single runway.

I am very disapointed with GIG numbers considering that many had hopes that the relocation SDU-GIG would boost demand and connection for GIG. But growth has been slower than expected, even considering the demise of RG, the final numbers should have been a stronger growth.

CGH keeps king in Brazil. Amazing numbers for such an small airport.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
GRU TPS3: Considering the terms of the law (bid, RIMA license), probably we will see the beginning of the new terminal by September/07.

T3 will not be completed before 2010.

As I stated many times, Sao Paulo needs a completely new airport in addition to CGH and GRU. INFRAERO finally came out this week and stated that indeed Sao Paulo needs a new airport to support traffic. There is no other way out. INFRAERO needs to make a massive investment in a state-of-the-art airport in Sao Paulo


Quoting Stirling (Reply 1):
That is amazing that both Rio airports don't even add up to just one of Sao Paulo's airports!

This is why I will always advocate for a NEW aiport in Sao Paulo.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
SDU will add 5,0 million pax capacity to the system (don't ask me why... i really don't know...IMO, better to do a major improvement on GIG TPS1!)

Agree 100%. INFRAERO shows how crazy they are by making this investment in SDU. Why? Nobody knows. As if other airports in Brazil were in perfect shape. Look accross the city at GIG: T1 is falling apart, and it is a shame for tourist to arrive at such depleated airport. I myself find it horrible to connect in GIG because of the old T1. Many avoid connecting in GIG only because of T1. GIG T1 needs URGENT investment and revamp. It has become a shame for Rio that GIG T1 is in such a state...

Rgs,
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:26 pm

WOW!!!! If GVA was in Brazil it would arrive 3rd...hard to believe !

By the way what major airline apart from TAM and GOL does Teresina recieve ?

[Edited 2007-01-26 10:27:31]
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:05 pm

Wow Lipe! Thanks a lot for the report. Very nicely done and very informative. Thank you.


It is amazing how the impact that RG had in Brazil. I am actually kind of shocked to see MAO down at number 13. I would have thought deffinatly in the top 10 on this one.

Question, How many flights a day is GOL vs TAM turning out of CGH?

Thanks Felipe!
Don't Tread On Me!
 
Rainmaker
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:34 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
SDU will add 5,0 million pax capacity to the system (don't ask me why... i really don't know...IMO, better to do a major improvement on GIG TPS1!)

Hint: There were simply too many years since Infraero last invested in RIO. This SDU refurbishing is the largest (the only?) construction work currently under way by a federal government agency in the city. And Rio houses a lot of voters.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 3):
By the way what major airline apart from TAM and GOL does Teresina recieve ?

Apart from GOL and TAM, TAF http://www.voetaf.com.br/empresa/site/default.asp also operates in THE, Teresina airport. TAF operates two daily flights: THE-SLZ-BEL and THE-FOR.

OceanAir is also lanning to start operations there.

Rgs,
 
teixeim
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:49 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:11 pm

I remember GIG TPS1 new when I was just a kid in the late 70s. I was so impressed with the building style and use of materials: stainless steel, terrazzo, rubber, concrete, etc. It was like nothing here in the U.S. and I'm sorry to hear its in disrepair now.

Later on, in the 80s and early 90s when all international flights shifted to São Paulo-GRU, I never really liked that terminal the same. It did not have the same arc-shaped building style, external observation deck and shopping that GIG had.

I find it fascinating how in such a short time all flights shifted from GIG to GRU. Its been discussed time and time again on this forum the reasons, but it seems that the airlines may have to take the initiative to transfer traffic to other airports as it seems to be happening in Brasilia. BSB seems to have potential as a connecting hub considering its more or less central location.

As for the continued popularity of SDU, CGH and if allowed, PLU - its simple: those airports are to d*mn convenient - just like DCA, LGA, MDW and Dallas Love Field here in the U.S. Infraero built that beautiful white elephant airport for Belo Horizonte at Confins- (do mundo) and when the airlines didn't shift traffic there themselves, Infraero forced them to do it. Good news for CNF spotters at any rate. Good news for taxi drivers and gas stations as CNF is truly an inconvenient drive from Centro Belo Horizonte.

With apologies for the rant and thanks for the updated airport info!
MitchellT / teixeim
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
GYN and VIX will also receive brand new terminals with more comfort.

VIX will receive also a new runway but this together with the terminal will only be ready in late 2008, perhaps even 2009.

Rgs,

Neo
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
I am very disapointed with GIG numbers considering that many had hopes that the relocation SDU-GIG would boost demand and connection for GIG. But growth has been slower than expected, even considering the demise of RG, the final numbers should have been a stronger growth.

Hardi, you have to consider RG problems because up to this, GIG faces a major growing of 14% (jan/may over 2005 levels), including 2 months ahead of BSB. RG was GIG largest operator with 7x daily to BSB, 2x daily to EZE, 4x daily to POA, 6x daily to SSA, 4x daily to VIX, 2x daily to BEL, 2x daily to NAT, 3x daily to REC, 3x daily to CWB, some of this flights were not returned even on JJ or G3 (GIG use to be an option for CWB/POA-Northeast on RG, but JJ/G3 use to do this thru CGH). I'm pretty sure that with RG, GIG should shows at least 15% of growing last year, reaching closer to 10 million pax.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
As I stated many times, Sao Paulo needs a completely new airport in addition to CGH and GRU

Main problem... lack of space... the closer area is about 70 miles far from Paulista / Berrini / Faria Lima areas (the top business areas in São Paulo). IMO Hardi, there's space to focus on O&D just in CGH, using more airports like GIG for South-Northeast connections.
With only 5 daily flights to CWB and 7 to POA (note that most of them are WebJet GIG based flights) against close to 25x daily CWB-CGH (75% of all CWB-north flights) and 24x daily CGH-POA (65% of all POA-north flights), it's impossible.

I use to say, we can count the number of flights that fly over São Paulo state! The only flights are from BSB and GIG which can show us how concentrated are the flights in Brazil (also produces major delays because of congested ATC). There are no South-Northeast flights, South-North flights.

Pair of cities like GYN-GIG, POA-CNF, CWB-SSA, POA-SSA do not keep non-stop service, even become all major cities (all over 1,0 million people) because the system use to run short legs (GYN for example Hardi, has nowadays 65% of flights to CGH and only 30% to BSB).

And why pax choose CGH ? Is there any options ? Yes, but only a few options, and also if you look for a POA-GIG flight, it's more expensive than a POA-CGH-GIG because it's not interesting to sell and improve POA-GIG flights to most airlines. Also, thru CGH nowadays you get flights at every hour, and more flights to your final destinations (except for BEL, VIX, MEA and a few destinations where the business focus is higher from Rio than São Paulo, like oil and mining).

Who get more money with this ? Airlines ! They run a single hub (despite the old system with more non-stop services) flights.

São Paulo is the biggest business center, no doubt, but if you look for flight loads between 0600 and 0645 (where they are just only O&D pax) you will see flights with A320 departing with 30 to 70 pax every day.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 4):
It is amazing how the impact that RG had in Brazil. I am actually kind of shocked to see MAO down at number 13. I would have thought deffinatly in the top 10 on this one

QXat, i believe MAO will never return as a top 10 because all the top 10 are still growing, and are mainly business or touristic destinations and keep some connections. To see MAO as a top 10, we need to see BVB, RBR, PVH and other cities around growing more as well as if MAO really become an international regional hub (to CCS, BOG, LIM, UIO, PTY, MIA and some others) attracting some connections from BSB and Northeast.

Quoting Teixeim (Reply 7):
BSB seems to have potential as a connecting hub considering its more or less central location.

BSB will receive during this year one daily service to LIS (TP), so we will see some increasing on pax numbers there, but it needs a new satellite/terminal !

Quoting Teixeim (Reply 7):
Infraero built that beautiful white elephant airport for Belo Horizonte at Confins- (do mundo) and when the airlines didn't shift traffic there themselves, Infraero forced them to do it. Good news for CNF spotters at any rate. Good news for taxi drivers and gas stations as CNF is truly an inconvenient drive from Centro Belo Horizonte

Belo Horizonte is not Sao Paulo or Rio (The state economy is diversified and it's located in many places, not concentrated on Metro Area) and CNF was designed to be the "state" airport, focusing on more flights to other state cities and expecting easy access to downtown Belo Horizonte (something just now provided). It's an airport that in three years will be running with 100% of the capacity as it could be an alternative to South-North flights also.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:58 am

do any U.S. carriers serve Brasilia - if not, I wonder why...
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
QXat, i believe MAO will never return as a top 10 because all the top 10 are still growing, and are mainly business or touristic destinations and keep some connections. To see MAO as a top 10, we need to see BVB, RBR, PVH and other cities around growing more as well as if MAO really become an international regional hub (to CCS, BOG, LIM, UIO, PTY, MIA and some others) attracting some connections from BSB and Northeast.

Thanks Felipe for the repsonse. I understand what you are saying about MAO. The problem is that BVB and these others really wont grow. Boa Vistas growth rate stopped after the boom. And please, help me to understand what you wrote about the international regional hub. Do you think they need to fly to these areas? Because I believe that they have service to PTY and MIA already.

Thanks Lipe
Don't Tread On Me!
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 10):
do any U.S. carriers serve Brasilia - if not, I wonder why...

No one PVD757, because it's very comfortable for all airlines to run flights to one or two destinations, where they know the market is big enough and even bigger because of connections. If no one Brazilian Airline fly BSB-United States, imagine why AA, DL, UA or CO will !

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 11):
And please, help me to understand what you wrote about the international regional hub. Do you think they need to fly to these areas? Because I believe that they have service to PTY and MIA already.

I try to comment that if an international hub (yes, PTY and MIA are already served by CM and JJ respectively) is established at MAO, probably we will see a huge improvement on the number of passengers there, as it could handle flights to FOR (non-stop), REC, SSA, GIG and even more services to places like BSB and BEL.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
I try to comment that if an international hub (yes, PTY and MIA are already served by CM and JJ respectively) is established at MAO, probably we will see a huge improvement on the number of passengers there, as it could handle flights to FOR (non-stop), REC, SSA, GIG and even more services to places like BSB and BEL.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Lipe!

Kyle
Don't Tread On Me!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
BSB will receive during this year one daily service to LIS (TP), so we will see some increasing on pax numbers there, but it needs a new satellite/terminal !

Lipe, there is no guarantee that TAP will operate LIS-BSB. This is pure wish by Brazilian public servants. I know Brazilian Minister of Tourism came back from Lisbon with this rumours.

So far, nothing came officially or semi-officially from TAP. We know TAP is examining many potential routes in Brazil, among them BSB, MAO, BEL, SLZ, and even CNF, in addition to adding extra frequencies in GRU and GIG, for which TAP would certainly extra higher yields.

I have a source at TAP which stated that ailrine is even trying some agreement to operate LIS-CCS-MAO with 5th freedom rights.

Is BSB a good market for TAP? I guess so, however, we have to take into account that TAP is an airline mainly focused on the leisure market (with very thin/small C cabin, and no F service). TAP is not considered a high yielding airline, and sell a lot of its seats for holiday package agent/tours. This is why I still think that TAP will add another Northeast Brazilian destination instead of BSB. More than 70% of TAP's seat to Brazil are sold to foreigners. This would need to reverse if TAP ever serves BSB.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Hardi, you have to consider RG problems because up to this, GIG

Yes, RG withdrew from GIG, as it did from many airports in Brazil. What about GRU? At least 50% of international operations and domestic flights came close to 70%. The problem is that GIG got a massive boost with SDU-GIG relocation and therefore - even taking into account RG's demise - should have shown stronger numbers. The promise that GIG would generate connectivity and attract more flight did happen, but with a scale much smaller than foreseen.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Main problem... lack of space... the closer area is about 70 miles far from Paulista / Berrini / Faria Lima areas (the top business areas in São Paulo). IMO Hardi, there's space to focus on O&D just in CGH, using more airports like GIG for South-Northeast connections.

This is no excuse for not building another NEW airport in SAO. Everybody wants an airport in a prime area, but in any metropolis this is impossible. Of do you think JFK is in Manhattan? Even GIG is far outside the prime areas of Rio.

INFRAERO has to build a NEW and state-of-the-art airport in Sao Paulo. INFRAERO knows GRU and CGH will not handle demand after 2010, and finally agreed to the plan for a new airport. The new airport could be build in remote location but linked with speed rail - as any good airport in the world.

Rgs,
 
AF086
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
This is no excuse for not building another NEW airport in SAO. Everybody wants an airport in a prime area, but in any metropolis this is impossible. Of do you think JFK is in Manhattan? Even GIG is far outside the prime areas of Rio.

Not far like GRU. GRU is not even located at São Paulo itself! GIG is about 20kms from downtown AND is located at the city of Rio. GRU is MUCH farther and this new airport would be even more distant from downtown so what's the point?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):

INFRAERO has to build a NEW and state-of-the-art airport in Sao Paulo. INFRAERO knows GRU and CGH will not handle demand after 2010, and finally agreed to the plan for a new airport. The new airport could be build in remote location but linked with speed rail - as any good airport in the world.

No they don't. It will make things worse for the already busy São Paulo airspace. What they need to do is rearrange connections and by doing that freeing up capacity at SAO (CGH/GRU). It's absurd that very few flights fly above SAO and don't land there. It's ridiculous to spend a huge amount of tax payers' money to build another airfield where it's NOT necessary before doing some renovation/expansion at airports that need more:

BSB needs a new terminal satellite
GIG/GRU need ASAP revamping of the taxiways and GIG needs renovation of T1.
CGH needs runway reconstruction
POA/CWB need runway expansion
FLN needs more taxiways
GYN needs renovation and expansion of the terminal
and so on.

Building a 3rd airport at SAO won't help, it will just make things worse.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:06 am

With the new runway in plans and T3, GRU still has space to expand. And they can always completely redo T1 and T2 into something better. The massive parking lots can be made into a parking deck that uses less space and with more capacity.

They can even build a third runway to replace 09R/27L further so that the parallel runways can support simultaneous ops.

In with the new, out with the old.

From Google Earth, the total land area of GRU seems larger than ATL (world's busiest airport), or maybe about the same, but including the area used by the airforce and the area invade by poor housing that belongs to GRU.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
GRU is MUCH farther and this new airport would be even more distant from downtown so what's the point?

Sao Paulo is one of the biggest cities in the world. As so far as there is a speed rail connection this would not be a problem. For exempla, NRT is 75km from downtown, while ORD is 40km and MXP 50km.

Perhaps they could just build a speed train interlinking CPQ to downtown Sao Paulo.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
No they don't. It will make things worse for the already busy São Paulo airspace.

Sao Paulo has a busy airspace and it will continue growing. It is just like saying: Sao Paulo city is too busy so now we have to transfer multinationals and companies out of Sao Paulo to Rio and elsewhere. It wont happen.
As long as airlines make more money and profits in Sao Paulo they will keep flying there. You cannot force airlines to move to GIG.

I hate this idea of interfering with the market. The market is GRU, so lets enable airlines to fly even more there.


Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
No they don't

Yes, they will. INFRAERO President stated this at a press conference: a NEW airport for Sao Paulo, which is a project in tandem with the expansion of CGH and GRU T3.

Everybody knows that the expansion of CGH and GRU T3 is not enough to cope with future demand. GRU T3 will already be operating at full capacity before it is ready in 2010. GRU Summer 07 - Busiest Ever (by Neo Jan 10 2007 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=3192898&s=gru#ID3192898

Rgs,
 
Brasuca
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
Is BSB a good market for TAP? I guess so, however, we have to take into account that TAP is an airline mainly focused on the leisure market (with very thin/small C cabin, and no F service). TAP is not considered a high yielding airline, and sell a lot of its seats for holiday package agent/tours. This is why I still think that TAP will add another Northeast Brazilian destination instead of BSB. More than 70% of TAP's seat to Brazil are sold to foreigners. This would need to reverse if TAP ever serves BSB.

So you consider BSB underpins too much F and C pax along with few Y demand? Quite controversial.
If correct, one could infer therefore this is a market for the likes of BA, LH and AF - they die for the much sought after First and Business passengers that crowd Brasília, as you explained. Why not TAP then?
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:24 am

To further enrich Lipe's list above, I have compiled the list of Brazilian with the greatest movement of aircraft (Jan/06-Dez/06):

1. CGH 230995
2. GRU 154940
3. BSB 126427
4. GIG 100895
5. SSA 91414
6. MARTE 85159
7. SDU 64603
8. POA 59463
9. REC 57812
10. CWB 56934
11. MEA 55131
12. PLU 47602
13. FOR 46567
14. CNF 45437
15. GYN 42610
16. BEL 36850
17. CGB 34793
18. MAO 33785
19. VIX 33098
20. FLN 30277
21. CPQ 25109
22. CGR 21629
23. SLZ 21201
24. LDB 21109
25. NAT 18755
26. UDI 18424
27. MCZ 18370
28. STM 17961
29. AJU 17659
30. PMW 13320
31. MCP 12944
32. PVH 11887
33. THE 11757
34. RBR 10648
35. IGU 10059
36. NVT 9245
37. BVB 8830
38. UBA 8163
39. JOI 7618
40. JPA 6318

PS: MARTE means Campo de Marte ANOTHER AIRPORT IN SAO PAULO: a small airport in Sao Paulo for business flight operations only. This is a very convenient airport, located near Anhembi Convention Center in the North of Sao Paulo city. I must say a very busy airport for busienss traffic.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
At least 50% of international operations and domestic flights came close to 70%. The problem is that GIG got a massive boost with SDU-GIG relocation and therefore - even taking into account RG's demise - should have shown stronger numbers. The promise that GIG would generate connectivity and attract more flight did happen, but with a scale much smaller than foreseen

Hardi, we know GIG grow 100% over two years because of that, and SDU lost only 33% of their pax, Rio system grows from 8 mm to 12 mm but with the concentration of flights at CGH/GRU how do you imagine to develop a new hub ? You can imagine a NVT-GIG and how about GYN, CGB, CGR, RAO, UDI, MGF, JOI... there are lots of airports with restricted service to one city, lots also with 90% of services to a single city.
How we can imagine an airline choosing GIG instead of GRU if the city itself is stronger for business and also, ALL markets can be reached from Sao Paulo, and not from Rio. Infraero has the intention to do, but someone has to advise them, they need to give incentives like they offer to fly ALSO to GRU in 90's (but the market do not grow so much and many airlines enjoy the incentive to move from Rio to Sao Paulo).
And yes, GRU is nowadays 70% of all international traffic... and it's not fair that BSB, CNF, CWB does not keep services to US and Europe!

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
This is no excuse for not building another NEW airport in SAO. Everybody wants an airport in a prime area, but in any metropolis this is impossible. Of do you think JFK is in Manhattan? Even GIG is far outside the prime areas of Rio.

As you know i live in Manhattan. Hardi, JFK is far, but it's easily reached, and it's very convenient to Queens and also, it's in NY Metro Transit System thru AirTrain. JFK is even closer than GRU (and also in a better place, at sea level and without terrain restrictions). No way to compare NY with Sao Paulo because you really do not keep an area available to an international airport closer than 70 miles, and if you find, will be on areas subject to fog, or severe restrictions due to terrain. New York Port Authority just lease a new area, even far than GRU to develop NYC 3rd airport, but it's an area larger than EWR but they have plans for only 3.0 million pax/year.
To add, Brazil is really not a rich country to build a new airport (US$ 800 million at least), while there are other huge demands, and we can see a kind of no-more slots at GRU policy.

If we build a new SAO airport, probably we will see in the future, 75% of Brazilians going to somewhere thru one of the three airports of Sao Paulo, huge delays due to ATC problems, and the chance to develop other cities, very restricted due to the fact that one city will be so big that no one could avoid invest on. We want a country like England or France (where LON and PAR accounts for a huge stake of GNP) ? Okay, so build a new airport in Sao Paulo. We want a diversified economy with several strong cities, we have to thing about.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 16):
From Google Earth, the total land area of GRU seems larger than ATL (world's busiest airport), or maybe about the same, but including the area used by the airforce and the area invade by poor housing that belongs to GRU.

GRU project was a mistake. The terminals it self should be built in the middle of the area, and not in one of the sides. It should allow to keep 2 runways that could run simultaneous operations. Also, it's capacity should be even closer to 55 million (almost 100% higher than the 29 million it could reach with future TPS3).
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
GRU project was a mistake.

Another reason to build a new airport.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
And yes, GRU is nowadays 70% of all international traffic... and it's not fair that BSB, CNF, CWB does not keep services to US and Europe!

It is not a question of fair or not fair, but market rules.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
Hardi, we know GIG grow 100% over two years because of that, and SDU lost only 33% of their pax, Rio system grows from 8 mm to 12 mm but with the concentration of flights at CGH/GRU how do you imagine to develop a new hub ? You can imagine a NVT-GIG and how about GYN, CGB, CGR, RAO, UDI, MGF, JOI... there are lots of airports with restricted service to one city, lots also with 90% of services to a single city.

You already know my views on this subject, as expressed above. There is no NVT-GIG because there is no market. There is NVT-CGH-GIG because there is market.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
To add, Brazil is really not a rich country to build a new airport (US$ 800 million at least), while there are other huge demands, and we can see a kind of no-more slots at GRU policy.

Agree 100%. There are other infra-structure projects with higher priority in Brazil. Totally correct. The way out? Privatisation, an idea currently being examined by the Government. Private companies should operate Brazilian airports.


Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
Hardi, JFK is far, but it's easily reached, and it's very convenient to Queens and also, it's in NY Metro Transit System thru AirTrain.

This is why I stated, as above, there need of a speed rail. The speed rail connection is in the Government plan under the PAC programme.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Perhaps they could just build a speed train interlinking CPQ to downtown Sao Paulo.

They had a plan to build it on Bandeirantes Highway middle section. Two years ago the State of Sao Paulo authorized the AutoBan Road Company to build an additional lane of traffic, which used the cheapest train area. Now, a projection made by the Government says it will cost at least US$ 8 billion because of the high cost of land. Even considering a private company, it's too much as the expected revenue is not so high. Also, the use of the current railway is not possible because of huge cargo demand (and you need to convert to a high speed train capacity).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
I hate this idea of interfering with the market. The market is GRU, so lets enable airlines to fly even more there.

I do not refuse the idea of GRU as "the market", but with 70% of the pax, i'm sorry Hardi, just say "GRU has no more slots". Every new flight to SSA, BSB, CNF, GIG or any other will also create more room to the strong Sao Paulo O&D market on the current flights.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
Lipe, there is no guarantee that TAP will operate LIS-BSB. This is pure wish by Brazilian public servants. I know Brazilian Minister of Tourism came back from Lisbon with this rumours.

I can say to you that ANAC is working on this flight as well as Cernai. And yes, we probably will see BSB-LIS. This is a bargain to authorize more flights to the markets of Rio and Sao Paulo. It's not a new rumor, it's even older, from the end of 2006. Now thing become stronger with a Minister telling TP that the government of Brazil could grant to them the frequencies they need.

Brasilia is a strong market, BSB is the 3rd biggest country airport, and for sure it keep demand for a single daily flight to Europe, and if we only consider government and diplomatic traffic to Europe (plus people from BSB) as well as it will be the easy way to connect MAO-Europe, i'm sure it's a strong market.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AF086
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Sao Paulo is one of the biggest cities in the world. As so far as there is a speed rail connection this would not be a problem. For exempla, NRT is 75km from downtown, while ORD is 40km and MXP 50km.

Perhaps they could just build a speed train interlinking CPQ to downtown Sao Paulo.

So is Rio but that's not the point. It's not up to Infraero to build links to the airports. CNF needs a connection to the city more than VCP does and that's one of the reasons CNF's growth is reduced it's just too hard for the pax to get there.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Sao Paulo has a busy airspace and it will continue growing. It is just like saying: Sao Paulo city is too busy so now we have to transfer multinationals and companies out of Sao Paulo to Rio and elsewhere. It wont happen.
As long as airlines make more money and profits in Sao Paulo they will keep flying there. You cannot force airlines to move to GIG.

I hate this idea of interfering with the market. The market is GRU, so lets enable airlines to fly even more there.

Never said that multinationals should flee SP and move elsewhere. I'm just saying that more than 50% of SAO's traffic is made of connections and pax can connect at GIG, CNF, GYN no matter where. So why make them in a saturated system? Rearranging connections will be GOOD for SAO because you'll have more room for SAO's O&D traffic.

And, again, it's VERY easy to say that "São Paulo is the best market" when you force 80% of the traffic to go through a city. It's ridiculous!

And I repeat: BEFORE even thinking of building a 3rd airport at the São Paulo metro area (70 miles away from downtown!) Infraero must renovate the existing ones (most of them needing URGENTLY taxiway/runway repais which mean: efficiency and above all: SAFETY).

A country with the size and with Brazil's economy cannot have a air network so concentrated that a bad weather situation in one city causes huge delays (and because of that money loss) in the rest of the country. And SP hasn't got the most stable weather, CGH cannot handle the traffic they do and GRU is cursed with fogs, specially during the winter. (as you might know "Cumbica" -which is the name of the region the airport was built- means "low cloud" according to the native language spoken there, so it means something, right?).

You should not force airlines to move away from SAO but you must have INCENTIVES to make airlines go elsewhere such as airport tax reducions, government tax reduction, fuel prices, show airlines that can operate elsewhere with the same (or better) profit but with a better and more efficient airport structure (meaning less delays, cheaper operation and more confort to the pax) and so on.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
Brasilia is a strong market, BSB is the 3rd biggest country airport, and for sure it keep demand for a single daily flight to Europe, and if we only consider government and diplomatic traffic to Europe (plus people from BSB) as well as it will be the easy way to connect MAO-Europe, i'm sure it's a strong market.

Lipe, BSB-LIS would not be operated by TAP if they could decide according to their market startegy. As I stated above, TAP's profile is low yileindg (small C, no F, holiday packages, 70% foreigners), which explains TAP's sucess in Northeast Brazil. BSB will be a complete different market profile.

Now, if TP's BSB-LIS is part of a "bargain", as you stated above, possibly involving further slots in GIG and GRU, then it is a complete new information.

So, why doesnt the Brazilian Government also "bargain" AA so that they could open new flights to Brazil? I really dont like this type of Goverment interventions.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
Brasilia is a strong market, BSB is the 3rd biggest country airport, and for sure it keep demand for a single daily flight to Europe, and if we only consider government and diplomatic traffic to Europe (plus people from BSB) as well as it will be the easy way to connect MAO-Europe, i'm sure it's a strong market.

Not so sure. BSB currently does not even have MIA-BSB nonstop. BSB has strong domestic traffic, full stop. Even BSB-EZE needs a sop-over in POA. TAM sells only around 40% of the EZE flight in BSB (many being connections), the balance being POA tickets.

Again, public service and diplomatic is thin market. I have serious questions about the sucess of BSB-LIS, and TP would need to get a very interesting carrot to operate this route...

Rgs,
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 23):
I'm just saying that more than 50% of SAO's traffic is made of connections and pax can connect at GIG, CNF, GYN no matter where. So why make them in a saturated system?

This is not true. Please provide link with reliable information. GRU is around 70% of the traffic, certainly far more than 50%.

Rgs,
 
AF086
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
This is not true. Please provide link with reliable information. GRU is around 70% of the traffic, certainly far more than 50%.

What's your source then? Mine is people from inside airlines (such as TAM, Gol, Air France and others) who provide me numbers.

In the end it will be your words against mine. You won't believe me and vice versa so what's the point in having this "where did you get that info" discussion? Right?

I'm not being anti-SAO on the contrary. The city which would most have the benefits of this reorganization of brazilian air traffic is SAO that wouldn't need to handle traffic to other destinations and would be more focused in their own O&D traffic which is big enough to sustain plenty of domestic and international services.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 24):
Not so sure. BSB currently does not even have MIA-BSB nonstop. BSB has strong domestic traffic, full stop. Even BSB-EZE needs a sop-over in POA. TAM sells only around 40% of the EZE flight in BSB (many being connections), the balance being POA tickets

How ? Most international flights come out of GRU ! Even you while flying to Rio or Santa Catarina use to fly thru GRU. Even people to EZE use to fly thru GRU sometimes.

EZE: please consider it's a single flight with a single departure. Some travellers need to fly at night after a day of work, some need early flights and in this case they need to go to other airports. EZE is Argentina, LIS will be Europe which means France, UK, Spain, Italy, Germany, at least 20x bigger, at least 10x more diplomatic staff. EZE-BSB probably is a market only for BSB and some politic/government traffic from Bs Aires.
A flight LIS-BSB will take care of a much bigger demand. If we consider just the countries bigger than Argentina (France, UK, Spain, Italy, Germany, ....) at the base of 40 daily pax (EZE was 40% of 156 = 60) plus some to others... a A332 will depart full every day.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
This is not true. Please provide link with reliable information. GRU is around 70% of the traffic, certainly far more than 50%.

Incorrect Hardi. If GRU alone is 66% of all passengers, how you can consider a number around 70% ? Are you saying that ALL Pax to GRU are Sao Paulo O&D ?

And please remember the Tags to GIG which represents at least 400,000 pax/year. And people from Int'l flights to Domestic (like you, myself sometimes...), people that connect from one flight to other (AA DFW-GRU GRU-GIG, CO EWR-GRU GRU-GIG), and not to forget POA, CWB, CNF, BSB, CWB, NVT, JOI...

I'm confident Sao Paulo it self is nothing more than 40 to 45% of the traffic.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
SSA become one of the major South American Airports, probably one of the top 10 airports

Not yet among Top 10, but in Top 15.
Here the actual list of Latin American airports with more traffic (MM pax 2006)

1. MEX.....24,7
2. CGH.....18,4
3. GRU.....15,6
4. SJU.....10,6
5. CUN.....9,7
6. BSB.....9,7
7. GIG.....8,7
8. BOG.....8,5
9. CCS.....7,1
10. SCL....6,6
11. GDL.....6,3
12. LIM.....5,7
13. SSA.....5,4
14. MTY.....5,2
15. REC....3,9

Ezeiza and Aeroparque are missing from the list due to unavailable data sin 2004. The latest report was EZE 5,5M and AEP 5,2M
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
GRU project was a mistake. The terminals it self should be built in the middle of the area, and not in one of the sides.

I agree

But it can be fixed. At a high cost, for sure, but there are not many options and honestly IMO, no better ones. We can deal with the fog.

[Edited 2007-01-27 21:56:04]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 29):
But it can be fixed. At a high cost, for sure, but there are not many options and honestly IMO, no better ones. We can deal with the fog.

You're right! And probably at a lower cost than build a new one airport, very far from the city.

Moving the cargo facilities to the other side (closer to Caesar Hotel), creating there a new parking area you can use the nowadays parking area to develop a new terminal, probably able to handle 10 million pax. Or even a longer runway.

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 28):

Thanks for the correction, so it seems SSA will be ranked 14th as EZE and AEP probably comes even higher than 2004 levels. Thanks for updating the LatAm ranking and share with us.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 24):
So, why doesnt the Brazilian Government also "bargain" AA so that they could open new flights to Brazil? I really dont like this type of Goverment interventions

AA flight SSA-MIA should be also announced very soon.

And just to let you know about TP CEO comments:

"O presidente da Tap, Fernando Pinto, disse que as operações da companhia portuguesa em Brasília só depende dos esforços do Brasil. No entanto, ele disse que o ministro Mares Guia está empenhado em conseguir o quanto antes a autorização para essa rota.

"Tive uma reunião durante a BTL com o ministro Mares Guia e acredito que até o final do ano estajamos voando para Brasília", disse, lembrando que após receber a permissão irá providenciar aviões para fazer essa rota.

Depois de Brasília, segundo Pinto, as operações estarão voltadas para Belo Horizonte. Já no mercado internacional, a Tap planeja aumentar a frequência para Angola (de cinco para sete vôos semanais) e Moçambique. "

For those who don't understand portuguese ... " TAP CEO says that the portuguese company operations to BSB depends only on Brazilian Government and he expect fly to BSB up to the end of the year, and the next destination in Brazil will be CNF (Belo Horizonte)."

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 3):
WOW!!!! If GVA was in Brazil it would arrive 3rd...hard to believe !

And ZRH first  Wink
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
EZE: please consider it's a single flight with a single departure. Some travellers need to fly at night after a day of work, some need early flights and in this case they need to go to other airports

So you agree that BSB cannot sustain EZE nonstop. This is the main argument why hubs such as GRU exist. If an airport can sustain nonstop traffic, such as GIG-EZE, links will be created.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
LIS will be Europe which means France, UK, Spain, Italy, Germany, at least 20x bigger, at least 10x more diplomatic staff

Diplomatic staff will use other means. I know that many senior public servants as well as diplomats and staff of international organisation have certain freedom for selecting the airlines/routes and most will prefer a "proper" business class service with airlines such as AF, LH, BA. i.e. via GRU.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
I'm confident Sao Paulo it self is nothing more than 40 to 45% of the traffic.

My numbers give GRU about 60-70% in Y and 80-90% in C and F. I am very confident as well. Anyway, I respect your diverging views.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 31):
TAP CEO says that the portuguese company operations to BSB depends only on Brazilian Government and he expect fly to BSB up to the end of the year, and the next destination in Brazil will be CNF (Belo Horizonte)."

Fernando Pinto is a great manager and he knows what he is doing. However, I still have doubts regarding BSB-LIS. But he must have the numbers right. I myself think that CNF or a North/Northesast Brazil destination would work better (such as MCZ or BEL or MAO).

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 33):
So you agree that BSB cannot sustain EZE nonstop

No Hardi, my point is that with only one daily departure it's not so convenient for travellers (considering EZE as the destination). We could only see a right demand with 2 or 3 daily (morning, noon & night flights). I believe FLN, POA, BSB and SSA can support 2 or 3 daily flights to EZE each. POA is the only one already served, the others for me are markets just waiting for an airline.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 33):
Diplomatic staff will use other means. I know that many senior public servants as well as diplomats and staff of international organisation have certain freedom for selecting the airlines/routes and most will prefer a "proper" business class service with airlines such as AF, LH, BA. i.e. via GRU.

Agree with your point, but remember that if TP offers a non-stop to LIS it will save at least 4 hours of trip to some destinations. I'm sure many people will decide to avoid connections in Brazil in order to take a early night (brazilian summer) departure from BSB itself. TP is not a kind of Top Class Airline, but looking for their results at FOR, NAT, REC and SSA (and even on C Class), i believe BSB-LIS will be a strong route for them.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):
my point is that with only one daily departure it's not so convenient for travellers (considering EZE as the destination).

And this single departure is not even nonstop, needs a stop-over in POA to boost loads/demand. It shows there is no market for nonstop service yet. And dont forget the a/c is a A320!!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):
I'm sure many people will decide to avoid connections in Brazil in order to take a early night (brazilian summer) departure from BSB itself.

You have a point, sometimes people look for time-saving rather than comfort. The flight would save 4h and the hassle of connecting in crowded GRU/GIG.
It could work, especially because BSB is extremely well connected to an area under-served with international flights (Mid-West region plus North region). BSB also captures the GYN area traffic. I wish all the best for TP, and hopefully it could open the eyes of other airlines which, as you said, only think of GRU and GIG in Brazil.

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 28):

1. MEX.....24,7
2. CGH.....18,4
3. GRU.....15,6

Or, the three biggest in terms of city traffic:

Sao Paulo area = 34 million (GRU + CGH)
Mexico area = 24,7 million (MEX)
Rio de Janeiro area = 12,4 million (GIG + SDU)
Buenos Aires area = 10,7 million (EZE + AEP)

Rgs,
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
Brasilia is a strong market, BSB is the 3rd biggest country airport, and for sure it keep demand for a single daily flight to Europe, and if we only consider government and diplomatic traffic to Europe (plus people from BSB) as well as it will be the easy way to connect MAO-Europe, i'm sure it's a strong market.

If you were to consider the government/diplomatic traffic between BSB and Northern Latinamerica / U.S.A then a BSB-PTY could make sense. BSB-PTY doesn't require a widebody aircraft like BSB-LIS and for Brazilians CM in MAO is very attractive for BEL, SLZ maybe FOR and REC but not SSA, BSB, CNF.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 35):
It could work, especially because BSB is extremely well connected to an area under-served with international flights (Mid-West region plus North region). BSB also captures the GYN area traffic. I wish all the best for TP, and hopefully it could open the eyes of other airlines which, as you said, only think of GRU and GIG in Brazil.

IMHO BSB could also capture the PLU/CNF market, the same way GIG does for international connections.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 36):
IMHO BSB could also capture the PLU/CNF market, the same way GIG does for international connections.

I think CNF is under GIG coverage area and not BSB. There are far more options in GIG than BSB.

If you consider Lipe's list provided in the starting post, BSB could catch the following airports (among the top 30):

12- Belem/BEL..............1.776.008
13- Manaus/MAO...........1.689.817
17- Goiânia/GYN...........1.376.383
18- Cuiaba/CGB..............931.431
22- Campo Grande/CGR..718.215
25- Uberlandia/UDI.........483.978
26- Macapa/MCP.............480.377
29- Teresina/THE.............380.440

All could present better connection via BSB rather than GRU or GIG (or PT's NE Brazil flights), which means BSB total traffic would get a coverage area with estimated pax traffic of 16-17 million or about the size of GRU!

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 36):
If you were to consider the government/diplomatic traffic between BSB and Northern Latinamerica / U.S.A then a BSB-PTY could make sense

Agree. Probably BSB could be CM's future destination in Brazil after GRU, GIG and MAO. As you said, it also improves changes since PTY-BSB could be operated with narrow body.

Rgs,
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 37):
I think CNF is under GIG coverage area and not BSB. There are far more options in GIG than BSB.

I meant if CM is to fly to BSB, passengers from CNF could connect overthere too instead of GIG/GRU.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 37):
Probably BSB could be CM's future destination in Brazil after GRU, GIG and MAO. As you said, it also improves changes since PTY-BSB could be operated with narrow body.

As for CM next Brazilian destination, BSB could be a strong candidate, but I know the SSA tourist sector wants CM and CNF may be attractive too. POA and/or REC seem to be less attractive for CM at this point.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
incitatus
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:07 am

If the US-Brasil bilateral opens opportunities for flights into secondary Brazilian cities, Copa will not be able to serve any of them profitably. A big part of Copa's success in Brazil is due to artificial constraints placed in the US-Brazil market.
Stop pop up ads
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 38):
I meant if CM is to fly to BSB, passengers from CNF could connect overthere too instead of GIG/GRU.

The number of flights CNF-BSB (7x daily, 2 operators) is very little, not as strong as CNF-GIG as well as PLU-GIG (14x daily, 4 operators) or CNF-GRU (5x daily, 2 operators). Of Course considering CNF-CGH you have more 20x daily flights available. CM departures are not so good for connections as it demands a previous day flight.

But with the lack of flights BSB-BOG, BSB-LIM, BSB-CCS, BSB-United States West Coast, BSB-MEX, no doubt a BSB-PTY will also be an interesting and profitable flight.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 33):
So you agree that BSB cannot sustain EZE nonstop. This is the main argument why hubs such as GRU exist. If an airport can sustain nonstop traffic, such as GIG-EZE, links will be created.

I'm sorry but that is just a lousy statement. Just because there is no non-stop flight between 2 cities it doesn't mean there is no traffic to support it. You have to consider that routes are created not only based on traffic, but also on convinience on airlines schedules, fleet operation. Flying through hubs eventually prevents creation of non-stop routes between non-hub cities, in favor of more flights through hubs. DL is a great example...

In the case of BSB, it is clear there is enough traffic for non-stop flights.. now wether it would be convient for either JJ or G3 to operate it non-stop that is another story. CNF is a similar example.. it is another potential airport for non-stop EZE flights (although BSB has advantadge due to more number of connections), but it is just so much easier and simple for JJ to operate it via GRU or GIG.

Connections served by JJ8020: MAO, BEL, SLZ, IMP, THE, PVH, RBR, FOR, CGB, GYN, PMW

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 35):
And this single departure is not even nonstop, needs a stop-over in POA to boost loads/demand. It shows there is no market for nonstop service yet. And dont forget the a/c is a A320!!

I wonder how are loads on this flight...

}Rgs,

Neo
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 39):
If the US-Brasil bilateral opens opportunities for flights into secondary Brazilian cities, Copa will not be able to serve any of them profitably. A big part of Copa's success in Brazil is due to artificial constraints placed in the US-Brazil market.

So there's no traffic between HAV, México, Dominican Republic, Haïti, Colombia, Venezuela, Centralamerica... and Brazil??
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Pu752
Posts: 421
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting Neo (Reply 41):
In the case of BSB, it is clear there is enough traffic for non-stop flights.. now wether it would be convient for either JJ or G3 to operate it non-stop that is another story. CNF is a similar example.. it is another potential airport for non-stop EZE flights (although BSB has advantadge due to more number of connections), but it is just so much easier and simple for JJ to operate it via GRU or GIG.

Im very sure BSB would not support an EZE service, i recall in late 90s PU flight EZE-MVD-CNF , it did work for 1 yr but no idea why they discontinued it.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting PU752 (Reply 43):
Im very sure BSB would not support an EZE service, i recall in late 90s PU flight EZE-MVD-CNF , it did work for 1 yr but no idea why they discontinued it.

This is what I said in my previous statement. BSB does not yet support EZE nonstop. TAM knows this and introduced instead BSB-POA-EZE. BSB (inlcuding connections) provides loads of no more than 40% to EZE, with the balance being filled by POA. Note: the flights is a narrow body A320.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
The number of flights CNF-BSB (7x daily, 2 operators) is very little, not as strong as CNF-GIG as well as PLU-GIG (14x daily, 4 operators) or CNF-GRU (5x daily, 2 operators). Of Course considering CNF-CGH you have more 20x daily flights available. CM departures are not so good for connections as it demands a previous day flight.

Correct. For CNF pax connecting in GIG is more attractive than BSB and even GRU.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 44):
This is what I said in my previous statement. BSB does not yet support EZE nonstop. TAM knows this and introduced instead BSB-POA-EZE. BSB (including connections) provides loads of no more than 40% to EZE, with the balance being filled by POA. Note: the flights is a narrow body A320.

I have to admit that after looking for some numbers (and again realize how strong BSB is in terms of connections) the size of BSB market is only closer to 50% of the airport pax it handles and probably EZE-BSB is not so strong!

I took a sample for TAM in a specific date:

AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3181 0 1/12/2006 05:40 GRU A320 PR-MAW 91 A 20 1
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3719 0 1/12/2006 06:05 CGH A320 PT-MZI 148 78 6
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3849 0 1/12/2006 07:00 CNF A320 PR-MHD 87 30 13
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3879 0 1/12/2006 07:15 GYN A320 PT-MZZ 41 B 36 B 11
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3543 0 1/12/2006 07:31 CGH A320 PR-MAC 157 B 94 B 12
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3599 0 1/12/2006 08:30 GIG A320 PT-MZM 125 B 34 B 10
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3813 0 1/12/2006 08:40 GYN F100 PT-MQP 84 B 62 B 8
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3701 0 1/12/2006 09:20 CGH A320 PR-MBG 143 A 58 9
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3449 0 1/12/2006 09:45 GIG A320 PT-MZY 119 35 13
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3744 0 1/12/2006 10:00 MAO A320 PT-MZS 130 87 8
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3896 0 1/12/2006 10:11 BEL A320 PT-MZI 137 C 107 C 10
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3840 0 1/12/2006 10:14 THE A320 PR-MHD 138 A 97 9
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3899 0 1/12/2006 10:16 CGB A320 PT-MZX 81 65 25
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3575 0 1/12/2006 10:18 CGH A320 PT-MZH 149 A 125 A 5
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3566 0 1/12/2006 10:23 SSA A320 PT-MZP 154 A 94 A 23
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3870 0 1/12/2006 10:25 MAB A320 PT-MZZ 92 79 22
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3576 0 1/12/2006 10:28 MCZ F100 PT-MRG 66 31 7
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3547 0 1/12/2006 10:33 SJP F100 PT-MQE 60 A 43 A 44
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 1457 0 1/12/2006 10:35 RAO EM2 PP-PSB 12 4 61
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3562 0 1/12/2006 10:39 REC A320 PT-MZL 155 127 3
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3540 0 1/12/2006 10:40 PVH A320 PR-MAS 69 63 26
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3588 0 1/12/2006 10:47 PMW F100 PT-MQD 100 B 84 B 24
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 5588 0 1/12/2006 10:50 AUX ATR42 PR-TTJ 5 5 41
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3887 0 1/12/2006 10:52 CWB A319 PR-MAN 112 D 56 A 27
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3593 0 1/12/2006 10:56 CGR F100 PT-MRX 59 A 30 A 28
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3464 0 1/12/2006 11:00 GYN A320 PR-MBE 126 107 9
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3554 0 1/12/2006 11:03 JPA A319 PR-MAL 87 A 46 8
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3722 0 1/12/2006 11:08 SLZ A320 PR-MBB 94 52 10
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3703 0 1/12/2006 11:14 CGH A320 PR-MAF 116 A 5 11
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 8020 0 1/12/2006 11:30 POA A320 PR-MAG 89 A 31 A 12
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3370 0 1/12/2006 11:50 NAT A320 PR-MAE 155 B 108 B 2
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3470 0 1/12/2006 11:50 FOR A320 PR-MHA 124 89 9
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3835 0 1/12/2006 12:14 GIG A319 PT-MZB 128 63 10
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3875 0 1/12/2006 13:05 VCP A320 PT-MZM 134 A 29 13
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3705 0 1/12/2006 13:30 CGH A319 PT-MZF 107 A 0
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3822 0 1/12/2006 14:15 REC A320 PT-MZY 171 47
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3148 0 1/12/2006 14:30 CNF F100 PT-MRH 105 7
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3709 0 1/12/2006 14:30 CGH A320 PR-MAZ 128 1
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3823 0 1/12/2006 15:45 GIG A320 PT-MZK 168 A 16
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3863 0 1/12/2006 16:01 CNF A320 PT-MZG 134 A 6
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3805 0 1/12/2006 16:05 CGB F100 PT-MQO 85 13
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3833 0 1/12/2006 16:55 GIG A319 PT-MZB 125 1
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3723 0 1/12/2006 17:00 CGH A320 PR-MBB 157 B 51 B
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3827 0 1/12/2006 17:30 GIG A320 PR-MAS 126 B 27 B
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3555 0 1/12/2006 17:48 GYN A319 PR-MAL 94 A 59 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3371 0 1/12/2006 17:52 CNF A320 PR-MAE 100 58
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3471 0 1/12/2006 17:52 CGH A320 PR-MHA 136 A 90 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3871 0 1/12/2006 18:15 GYN A320 PT-MZZ 43 23
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3897 0 1/12/2006 18:18 CGH A320 PT-MZI 128 91
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3845 0 1/12/2006 18:35 CNF A320 PR-MHD 133 B 68 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3721 0 1/12/2006 18:40 CGH F100 PT-MRB 41 2
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3519 0 1/12/2006 19:10 VIX F100 PT-MRA 80 15
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 5589 0 1/12/2006 19:20 UDI ATR42 PR-TTI 10 4
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3071 0 1/12/2006 19:36 POA A320 PR-MAZ 135 A 44
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3465 0 1/12/2006 19:40 GRU A320 PR-MAD 97 A 35
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3715 0 1/12/2006 19:42 CGH A319 PR-MAI 78 26
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3881 0 1/12/2006 19:44 CWB A320 PR-MAK 106 A 31 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3885 0 1/12/2006 19:46 VCP A320 PT-MZP 135 A 83 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3745 0 1/12/2006 20:02 GIG A320 PT-MZS 102 D 74 C
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3882 0 1/12/2006 20:06 THE A320 PT-MZG 118 54
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3563 0 1/12/2006 20:14 CGH A320 PT-MZL 76 47
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3574 0 1/12/2006 20:15 REC A320 PR-MBE 168 86
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3591 0 1/12/2006 20:18 GYN F100 PT-MQD 96 A 69 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3818 0 1/12/2006 20:20 PMW F100 PT-MQP 90 A 66 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3572 0 1/12/2006 20:22 IMP A320 PT-MZM 152 B 92 B
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3448 0 1/12/2006 20:25 BEL A320 PT-MZK 135 A 83 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3073 0 1/12/2006 20:28 FLN F100 PT-MRX 70 A 34
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 1455 0 1/12/2006 20:35 RAO EM2 PP-PSB 11:00 AM 7:00 AM
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3564 0 1/12/2006 20:40 SSA A320 PT-MZX 154 71
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3546 0 1/12/2006 20:45 PVH F100 PT-MRE 106 B 85 B
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3878 0 1/12/2006 20:45 RBR A320 PT-MZZ 77 A 51 A
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3542 0 1/12/2006 21:42 MAO A320 PR-MBB 113 81
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3598 0 1/12/2006 22:00 CGB A320 PR-MAS 122 85
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3854 0 1/12/2006 22:00 FOR A320 PR-MHD 155 E 60 B
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3714 0 1/12/2006 23:00 BEL A320 PT-MZI 110 77
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ 0 3180 0 1/12/2006 23:59 SLZ A320 PR-MAW 95 59

Sorry if it's long.

AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ -> Operator: Tam
0 -> Regular Flight
3180 -> Flight Number
0 -> No function
1/12/2006 -> Date
23:59 -> Time of departure
SLZ -> Destination
A320 -> Aircraft
PR-MAW -> Registration
95 -> Pax Number
59 -> Connections, means pax not checked-in at BSB.

See JJ8020 departed to POA with 89 pax (with 31 connections). All can see how strong are connections at BSB. The only markets with strong O&D are GIG and CGH !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:57 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 45):
See JJ8020 departed to POA with 89 pax (with 31 connections). All can see how strong are connections at BSB. The only markets with strong O&D are GIG and CGH !



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 45):
I have to admit that after looking for some numbers (and again realize how strong BSB is in terms of connections) the size of BSB market is only closer to 50% of the airport pax it handles and probably EZE-BSB is not so strong!

Correct, Lipe. As I said, BSB-EZE cannot sustain nonstop service. Only destinations in Brazil which can sustain EZE nonstop are: GRU, GIG, POA, FLN (Summer) and CWB. Also, in future we could expect CNF-EZE. CNF is certainly stronger market than BSB for EZE service.

This is why I am very cautious about TP flight BSB-LIS. I know it is very different market, but I am only cautious.

Rgs,
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
As I said, BSB-EZE cannot sustain nonstop service. Only destinations in Brazil which can sustain EZE nonstop are: GRU, GIG, POA, FLN (Summer) and CWB. Also, in future we could expect CNF-EZE. CNF is certainly stronger market than BSB for EZE service.

I would expect SSA-EZE to aslo support non-stop service, most likely not daily, but at least 1-2 per week, specially in the Summer.
As for other Brazilian destinations like MAO, FOR and REC; I can only see them as stops for EZE flights to U.S./Caribbean and Europe.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Brasuca
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:57 pm

The fact that BSB is strong in connections does justify, conversely, a non-stop to EZE.
You've said so far "BRASILIA ITSELF", but what about all the northern market + BSB itself through Brasilia?
GRU for sure couldn't either handle ITSELF all the current flights if it were to focus only in their O&D.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006

Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 48):
The fact that BSB is strong in connections does justify, conversely, a non-stop to EZE.
You've said so far "BRASILIA ITSELF", but what about all the northern market + BSB itself through Brasilia?
GRU for sure couldn't either handle ITSELF all the current flights if it were to focus only in their O&D

Agree.. GRU is like 40-50% of what it is without its connections. BSB itselft cannot sustain daily flights to EZE, but with connections it could. A non-stop flight leaving BSB around 11:30-12:00 is a perfect fit for connections and enables JJ to advertise this 2nd option for the Centro-Oeste/North/Northeast Market..to get to EZE, avoiding the hassle of going through GRU/CGH.

Anac should promote moves like this, creating secondary hubs in Brazil, shifting some connection traffic out of SAO.

Rgs,

Neo

Who is online