starstream707
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 pm

Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:32 pm

Does anybody have any info on when and where Air France flew their 707's to North America?

I would figure JFK, ATL, IAD, BOS, MIA would be a few of the airports that saw service from these birds.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Since it was their only longhaul gear before the seven four and Concorde, the answer is, everywhere in North America that Air France flew. So include Montreal, Detroit, Philly, Chicago, Los Angeles, Mexico City, all over the Carribean etc. Terrible way to find out more but Air France and Pan Am were probably tied in the 60s for the title of "most dangerous airline", so look em in Air Disaster.com and you'll find a few smoking craters in the Carribean for the more exotic destinations.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting Starstream707 (Thread starter):
I would figure JFK, ATL, IAD, BOS, MIA

Not ATL. ATL was added to AF's network in the late 90s, after DL partnership was signed.
LAX was served by AF's B707, with an en route stop at YUL, then nonstop.
ORD was also served by AF's B707.

Feb.3rd 1956 : AF orders 10 B707-300

Nov.11 1959 : AF receives its first B707, named "Château de Versailles"

Feb.16 1960 : First Intercontinental flight for an AF B707
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
Not ATL. ATL was added to AF's network in the late 90s

This one was going to Atlanta:
http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...6031962®=F-BHSM&airline=Air+France
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:53 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
This one was going to Atlanta:

The non-scheduled charter flight was going to Houston, with stops at New York and Atlanta.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19620603-0〈=en

Cheers
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 3):
This one was going to Atlanta

That was a charter flight.

In 1965, AF North American B707 Network was :

ORY-NYC
ORY-YUL-LAX
ORY-YUL-ORD
ORY-NYC-MEX

In 1969, AF had a fleet of 33 B707.

Air France has lost 4 B707 in accidents :

- Jun. 3rd 1962 F-BHSM crashed during take-off from Orly.

- Jun. 22nd 1962 F-BHST crashed during approach near PTP (Guadeloupe) operating AF117.

- Jun. Mar.5th 1968 F-BLCJ operating flight AF212 crashed suring approach near PTP.

- Dec.3rd 1969 F-BHSZ oparating also flight AF212 crashed in the Caribbean sea shortly after talke off from CCS.

A 5th B707, F-BHSH, was lost, destroyed by a terrorist bomb at AJA (Ajaccio airport) on Sept.7th 1976.

The last AF B707 flight was AF2707 TUN-CDG, on Oct.28th 1982.

[Edited 2007-01-27 14:16:33]
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3722
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:16 pm

Let's not forget H-Town. I seem to recall hearing from a few ex-PA and BN employees stating that AF started service to what is now HOU in the mid '60's or so (though I can not seem to locate any confirmation on web). From what I understand the service was from ORY, YUL, MEX, with of course the venerable ol' 707.

Thomas

[Edited 2007-01-27 14:18:40]
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
lijnden
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:34 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:50 am

Wasn't there also a flight from Marseille or Nice to NYC? (I even believe it was called the Grace Kelly or Jet Set flight)
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ORD-NRT-IAH-ORF
 
dennys
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:15 am

1969 : 707 AF : DAILY FLGHT NCE ORY JFK
LYS ORY JFK
2 x WEEKLY AF 161 TLV NCE // AF 060 NCE LIS JFK

707 AF : ALSO 5 x WEEK ORY LAX non stop !

i still hve just a question / where AF flew its -328B s specially ? LAX ? RIO ? BUE ?


Rgds

Dennys
 
starstream707
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:05 am

Wow. Thanks you all for the excellent info.
 
dennys
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:33 am

to Stastream707 / i can give you more info about the AF 707s routes between 1969 and 1975 , if you want ;
regards

dennys707@hotmail.com
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Dennys (Reply 8):
i still hve just a question / where AF flew its -328B s specially ? LAX ? RIO ? BUE ?

The B707 were used on all AF medium and long haul network until 1968.
Before 1968, AF only had a B707 and Caravelle fleet, along with the last few DC4, Breguet 763, Vickers Viscount and Super-Starliners.

Starting 1968, AF bagun to operate the B727 on its European network beside the Caravelle. The B727 was used on the bigest routes, and also to replace the B707 on the longest route the Caravelle couldn't handle because of their range limit.

In 1969, AF fleet consisted in :

45 Caravelle
33 B707
13 B727
4 Breguet 763.

The last DC3/DC4/F27 were used as freighters on the Postal service network only.
 
marcus380
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:15 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Dennys (Reply 8):
707 AF : ALSO 5 x WEEK ORY LAX non stop !

are you sure a b707 had such a range ??

marcus
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:53 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Dennys (Reply 8):
707 AF : ALSO 5 x WEEK ORY LAX non stop !



Quoting Marcus380 (Reply 12):
are you sure a b707 had such a range ??

ORY-LAX is 4934nm. The B707-300 had a max. fuel range (no reserves) of 5,350nm and for the B707-300B at max. payload (no reserves), range was 5,250nm while at max. fuel (no reserves) the range was 6,510nm.

Hope that helps.

Salut!
 
citationjet
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting Marcus380 (Reply 12):
are you sure a b707 had such a range ??

Yes, Air France flew Paris to LAX with the 707-320:

http://www.airfrancemusee.org/en/histoire.php?FechaInit=1960

.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
nateDAL
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 6):
Let's not forget H-Town. I seem to recall hearing from a few ex-PA and BN employees stating that AF started service to what is now HOU in the mid '60's or so (though I can not seem to locate any confirmation on web). From what I understand the service was from ORY, YUL, MEX, with of course the venerable ol' 707.

This might be a clue: http://oldterminals.topcities.com/maps.html

AF is not shown on the 1968 map of HOU, but is on the 1975 IAH map.
Set Love Free
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:42 pm

On a side note

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimyvrr...map/sets/72157594293704915/detail/

Air France route maps, including the 70s, which should give you some idea.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
dennys
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:57 am

to Starstram707:

I found some more AF 707 routes for you /

a/ dating from 1969

DAILY AF 077 LYS ORY JFK MEX

some more /

ORY BOS
ORY BOS WAS
ORY BOS NYC
ORY BOS PHL
ORY PHL WAS

curious .... I discovered a DAILY flight /

AF 047 ORY SHANNON JFK !!! ( why spng in SNN ? EI operated flights also ? srange ? ? ! )

and another routing touching the USA :

ORY ANC TYO

.... But once a week / ORY HAM ANC TYO - why a stop in HAM for AF ? I have been asking this Q. for more than 20 years .... still NO answer; For your info , when AF introduced the 747 on this route , the 747 still made a stop in HAM once a week .... Why ? )

b) have look on this flight during Summer 1973 /

AF 077 LYS ORY NYC GUADALAJARA PUERTOVALLARTA :

LYS ORY / CVL
ORY NYC / 747
NYC GUADALAJARA PUERTOVALLARTA / 707 !!!! creasy ?

NO ?

REGARDS

dennys
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting Dennys (Reply 17):
AF 047 ORY SHANNON JFK !!! ( why spng in SNN ? EI operated flights also ? srange ? ? ! )

Cargo flight, I assume


Also routing through Hamburg before heading to ANC and HND, is probably because the cooperation with LH and JL

[Edited 2007-01-31 21:14:30]
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:24 am

Guadalajara is still served today by Air France Cargo B744ERF


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Victor Garciamontes - AeroImagenes de Mexico

 
starstream707
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:17 am

This is all great stuff guys! I figured most of the east coast cities saw service from these birds.
 
dennys
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:15 pm

To Starstream707 /
If you want some more routings :

1971 . FAR EAST ALL OPERATED B-707.

ORY ROM TLV THR DEL BKK SGN HKG TYO
ORY ROM TLV THR BOM BKK HKG OSA TYO
ORY NICE THR BKK SGN
ORY NICE BEY THR BKK SGN MNL
ORY ATH CAI KHI RANGOON SHANGAI
ORY ATH DHA KHI BOM BKK PNOM PEHN SHANGAI
ORY TLV THR DEL BKK PNOM PEHN HKG TYO .

1971. SOUTH AMERICA ROUTES VIA DKR OR RIO ALL OPERATED B-707.

ORY NICE DKR BUE SCL
ORY MAD RIO SAO MVD
ORY MAD RIO SAO
ORY DKR BUE SCL
ORY RIO SAO
ORY MAD RIO SAO BUE MVD .


to Jymyvr / sorry but all pax flight I talked about ; i know about the AF LH JL Kargo coop .

Best regards to all

dennys
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8642
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Dennys (Reply 17):

.... But once a week / ORY HAM ANC TYO - why a stop in HAM for AF ? I have been asking this Q. for more than 20 years .... still NO answer; For your info , when AF introduced the 747 on this route , the 747 still made a stop in HAM once a week .... Why ? )

I am not sure if that was a cooperation with LH as they had served the route as well FRA/HAM/ANC/FYO/OSA alternating with DUS - same for JAL, there was definately a JAL service with DC8s and 747 via HAM.

Back to AF - LH had traffic rights via Paris to LAX and the traffic rights for AF had probably been in exchange for that. AF did have good loads ex HAM, inclduing cargo. It bwas one of their top stations in Germany which reflected also on the career of the local cargo manager.

AF lost a B707 in HAM in the mid 60s BTW,skidded off the runway and was a complete loss, but no injuries or death.
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FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
AF lost a B707 in HAM in the mid 60s BTW,skidded off the runway and was a complete loss, but no injuries or death

This is the 6th B707 lost by AF (5th in an accident).

F-BHSA "Château de Versailles", the first B707 delivered to AF was involved in this accident on July 27th 1961.
It was operating AF272 PAR-HAM-ANC-TYO.
While taking-off for Anchorage, the pilot had difficulty holding the aircraft on a straight heading along the runway and decided to abandon the take-off. Despite his efforts, the aircraft veered to the left, ran off the runway and finally came to rest 2 840 m from the starting point in a depression 140 m from the runway. It was severely damaged and withdrawn from use.
Four crew and six passengers were seriously injured.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Dennys (Reply 21):
ORY ROM TLV THR DEL BKK SGN HKG TYO
ORY ROM TLV THR BOM BKK HKG OSA TYO
ORY NICE THR BKK SGN
ORY NICE BEY THR BKK SGN MNL
ORY ATH CAI KHI RANGOON SHANGAI

What I wouldn't give to fly on one of those aircraft on one of those routes today. THAT was flying!
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8642
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Air France 707 North American Routes

Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 23):
Four crew and six passengers were seriously injured

I didn't have the time to check the details, I knew there was nobofy killed in that accident. I have seen pictures of the damaged 707, guess they were luckyy after all.
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