LAXintl
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Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:17 am

Not much of a surprise to many, but Frontier seemingly remains hopeful.


Frontier CEO says California route has been slow

Seven months into an attempt to expand further beyond Denver with Los Angeles-San Francisco flights, Frontier Airlines chief executive Jeff Potter admits that the route is currently slow.

The Los Angeles-San Francisco route "is slow," but the company expected it to be, Potter said during the company's earnings conference call this morning following its report yesterday of a record $14.4 million loss in the quarter ended in December.

Frontier is going up against tough competition on the California route, including United and American Airlines out of San Francisco and Southwest Airlines out of Oakland.

"I think it's been a place that I still believe is going to be successful in the long term," Potter said, calling the route "a strategic investment" that is different from the Los Angeles "focus city" effort.


http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_5094305


For the record the LAX-SFO route gets downgraded from 5 A319s to 1 A319 and 3 EMB170s when the Republic Airways flying commences late spring and mentioned in the following other thread. Republics F9 Routes Posted On Flyfrontier.com (by ExpressJet_ERJ Jan 22 2007 in Civil Aviation)
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copaair737
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:21 am

I think they'll stick with it. Eventually, if it doesn't pan out for them, like if the reduced capacity on it still isn't helping anything, I think you'll see it get chefcanned.
How is SFO-LAS doing for them?

-Copa
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:21 am

I think this could have been foreseen. They were tapping a market that was already quite strong. Especially with so many flights between the two cities. Just doesn't seem like it is a money maker for them.

We'll see what happens in the future.

Aeroflot777
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:38 am

Normally, Frontier commands passengers with its service premium (in Economy class) over other airlines. However, its LAX-SFO route competes with jetBlue's LGB-OAK route. This means that jetBlue has the best service (in economy) between Los Angeles and San Francisco (city pairs, not airport pairs). So I'm guessing that a lot of potential Frontier customers wind up on jetBlue instead.
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BigGSFO
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Sl

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 3):
So I'm guessing that a lot of potential Frontier customers wind up on jetBlue instead.

Maybe, maybe not. Most passengers betwen Norcal and Socal want frequency, segments/miles and price. IFE, service etc. doesn't carry the same weight on a one hour flight than it does for longer haul. I think the loyalists who prefer OAK over SFO will choose WN (or B6) since they are most likely to be Rapid Rewards/True Blue(?) members. At SFO, they are most likely UA/AA members. If price and schedule are somewhat equal on such a short flight, the majority will use their preferred carriers.

I am hopeful F9 can make it work although downgrading to EMB's might not be a good sign.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:55 am

They ran a whopping 31% load factor in October 06...down from their peak load factor of 44% in their first month of operation, June 06.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:05 am

Just curious why someone would say Jetblue has a better service that Frontier? What is better about it, exactly?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Not much of a surprise to many, but Frontier seemingly remains hopeful.

As I said before, throw whatever you want at it, but they're still flying the route.

 Smile

mariner
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as739x
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:23 am

How is JetBlue any better Alex? Also, many more people fly from LAX then LGB. The competition is with AA,UA,and WN.

As for F9 service. I non-reved on them today and once again, fantastic! CAK-DEN-LAX

ASLAX
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LAXintl
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 2):
Especially with so many flights between the two cities.

 checkmark The LA basin to Bay Area is one of the most competitive markets in the US which F9 is going up against.

There are about 200 daily flights (SWA alone is about 110) between the various airports by the likes of United, Southwest and American in addition to Alaska and Jetblue whom all enjoy strong name recognition and frequent flyer loyalty.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
As I said before, throw whatever you want at it, but they're still flying the route.

True, but obviously loosing at it. At least moving down to the E170s should provide some improvement by better matching pax loads to cost.

After 7 months in the market, F9 still is selling its $59 introductory fares being unable to move to its planned $79 / $99 fare levels. In addition the carrier in November rolled out a buy 3 get 1 free offer on the market which seems to get extended month after month and is now good thru the end of February.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
After 7 months in the market, F9 still is selling its $59 introductory fares being unable to move to its planned $79 / $99 fare levels. In addition the carrier in November rolled out a buy 3 get 1 free offer on the market which seems to get extended month after month and is now good thru the end of February.

Um - yes, you have said much of this before, in other threads. More than once.

I'm puzzled that this Frontier route concerns you so much, but for whatever reasons, be they financial or strategic, as Mr. Potter says (and I have tried to indicate to you), the bottom line remains - they are still flying the route.

 Smile

mariner
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AirWillie6475
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:46 am

Frontier is out of place that is why they are struggling. First of all Southwest will dilute what ever traffic there is between LAX and SFO and vice versa. Most Southwest flyers of LA will try to avoid LAX. 1st choice will be BUR, ONT, SNA, then LAX for travel to the bay area. That leaves the UA/AA/JB members, they will of course go with their respective airlines. That leaves a small confused group for Frontier.
 
Superfly
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:50 am

I flew Frontier last weekend SFO-LAX and back.
I was impressed with there flight and there service. Best of all, there was only 14 people on the flight.  Smile

OK I know that's not good for the airline but great if you're a passenger.
Bring back the Concorde
 
rocANDtpa
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:57 am

Service Differences B6 and F9

B6 has the better seat pitch with 34/36 for B6 and 33 for F9

B6 has the better in-flight entertainment with free direct tv, free xm music and movies for a fee. F9 has direct tv for a $5 fee

F9 has the better food with wraps and other "real" food on some flights. B6 has only unhealthy snacks

F9 has better seat width at 18" B6 is 17.8"

Looks pretty equal depending on what is most important to the flyer
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:00 am

F9 has smaller planes, which means I get on and off faster Big grin
 
LAXintl
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
I'm puzzled that this Frontier route concerns you so much

I just strongly feel F9 is out their league and simply in the wrong market.

There a countless markets that F9 could likely do well as part of becoming less Denver centric, however entering the LAX-SFO race was suicidal.

With such thinking F9 should also have considered entering some other markets such has Chicago-NYC or the Northeast Shuttle corridor for good measure.

F9 should do wonderfully playing a low key card going after many less frequently served markets, just as they have done with Mexico over the years. Entering one of the top city pairs in the US not only brings them undue attention in the eyes of the Big Boys, it also clearly costing them loads of money.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
andessmf
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:41 am

First of all, the drive between parts of the LA Basin and N. California can be made rather quickly, if you drive fast. For the people that live in SFO, it can easily be a 1 hour drive to get to OAK, negating some of the effects of lower prices. Same with LGB. There is not many attractions close to the area. When you do interstate flying in Cali you will usually get to the closest airport to your destination, not go an hour out of the way. I don't see F9 competing with B6, they are competing with UA and AA.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
The LA basin to Bay Area is one of the most competitive markets in the US which F9 is going up against.

Many have tried, and few winners have been declared.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
however entering the LAX-SFO race was suicidal.

They could have picked an underserved market, and LAX/SFO in its many routes its NOT.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
I just strongly feel F9 is out their league and simply in the wrong market.

That's an opinion. Clearly, Frontier, like Air New Zealand on their money losing trans-Tasman routes, sees a strategic, that is intangible, value.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
With such thinking F9 should also have considered entering some other markets such has Chicago-NYC or the Northeast Shuttle corridor for good measure.

JetBlue did that. And copped a deal of flak for it. But Frontier perceives itself as a western airline, they have avoided he east coast blood bath. But they can't avoid them all - unless they just stick to Nebraska.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
. Entering one of the top city pairs in the US not only brings them undue attention in the eyes of the Big Boys,

Many think they should not take on Southwest and many think they shouldn't take on the big boys. Several here expect AA to retailate over DFW-MZT, for example. Difficult, if not impossible, to avoid them all.

So - Frontier should stick to Nebraska, perhaps?

But if SFO-LAX was such a mistake, why is SFO-LAS not?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
it also clearly costing them loads of money.

I doubt it is as much as you think and I doubt anyone here could put a figure on it, nor can anyone here quantify intangible value.

Both Mr. Potter and Mr. Happ have laid out their thinking in the article you linked. If you disagree, fine, but you are then disagreeing with an overall strategy and not just a route.

mariner
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jetBlueNYFL
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting RocANDtpa (Reply 13):
F9 has the better food with wraps and other "real" food on some flights. B6 has only unhealthy snacks

The other "real" food on F9 is NOT free. You can bring any food you wish on jetBlue flights and enjoy the free unlimited variety of name brand snacks as a supplement...in addition to hot soup and Dunkin Donuts coffee. Small snack boxes are offered on longer flights and often free alcohol for jetBlue AMEX cardholders.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
F9 has smaller planes, which means I get on and off faster

jetBlue offers front AND rear boarding/deplaning in many markets!
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Bicoastal
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:16 am

Mariner...with all due respect because I think you're very knowledgeable and reasonable but you need to get some perspective on Frontier. It seems to be an airline in search of an identity and a reason for existence. United and now Southwest are hurting them in Denver. Can't they find a better route to use an E170 rather than a money losing route in California? Isn't there somewhere else they can expand? I still think they are a good takeover target. Someone can come in, take their planes and dump their routes.

Just my armchair opinion.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 18):
The other "real" food on F9 is NOT free.

What is "NOT free"?:

http://www.frontierairlines.com:80/f...r/flight-info/inflight-catering.do

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
A330300
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Sl

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 18):
jetBlue offers front AND rear boarding/deplaning in many markets!

Frontier also uses rear deplaning where available - CUN and SJC come into mind.

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 18):
The other "real" food on F9 is NOT free.



Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 18):
Small snack boxes are offered on longer flights and often free alcohol for jetBlue AMEX cardholders.

Frontier offers a complimentary snack basket on longer hauls from Denver to the east, wraps on most Cancun flights, warm cookies on redeyes, warm breakfast sandwiches from Anchorage, and a light snack on medium hauls - all complimentary.

In addition, Frontier provides complimentary alcoholic beverages to Summit level EarlyReturns members.

[Edited 2007-01-30 02:32:14]
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 19):
but you need to get some perspective on Frontier.

Thank you for your condescending advice. Another Frontier should stick to Nebraska theorist, perhaps?

Frontier lost money this last quarter in DEN - because of the storms. Prior to that the FY was profitable for them.

But gee - United lost $40 million last quarter - because of those same storms.

???

mariner
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AirMike2
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 19):
but you need to get some perspective on Frontier.

Thank you for your condescending advice. Another Frontier should stick to Nebraska theorist, perhaps?

No, Mariner -- YOU are condescending -- to anyone who has a different opinion on Frontier. You talk "down" to most everyone. Just look at the
way you write your posts and get a grip.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting Airmike2 (Reply 23):
No, Mariner -- YOU are condescending -- to anyone who has a different opinion on Frontier. You talk "down" to most everyone. Just look at the
way you write your posts and get a grip.

Thank you for your advice, too. Or was it just a statement.

Anyone can have a "different oipinion" on Frontier than I. But it's nice when they back it up with facts.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AirMike2
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 24):
Thank you for your advice, too. Or was it just a statement.

Anyone can have a "different oipinion" on Frontier than I. But it's nice when they back it up with facts.

mariner

You really have a high opinion of yourself don't you?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 25):
You really have a high opinion of yourself don't you?

Not much anyone can say to that, is there?

I have no idea what has brought on this little attack from you, but - present me with facts that disprove anything I have said, and I will immediately apologize.

mariner
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AirMike2
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
I have no idea what has brought on this little attack from you, but - present me with facts that disprove anything I have said, and I will immediately apologize.

It's not a matter of facts or trying to disprove anything. I'm sure you're very knowledgable. However, the way you talk to people is less than, well, shall I say Christian? (Or whatever)

Quote:
"Thank you for your condesending advice"
"Um - yes, you have said much of this before, in other threads. More than once."

The bottom line is - your responses are sometimes condescending. You can make a point without being rude.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 27):
However, the way you talk to people is less than, well, shall I say Christian? (Or whatever)

Once again, there seems little I can say. I'm not about to change and this writing style that you object to has gven me a great career.

But if saying all this makes you feel better, go for it.

mariner
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rw717
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 17):
But if SFO-LAX was such a mistake, why is SFO-LAS not?

By the way, how is the SFO-LAS route doing? I noticed that they are going to 2x daily soon.
Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
 
AirMike2
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
I'm not about to change and this writing style that you object to has gven me a great career.

That statement says alot about you.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:27 am

Quoting RW717 (Reply 29):
By the way, how is the SFO-LAS route doing? I noticed that they are going to 2x daily soon.

The CEO was asked about this specific route on the conference call last week and he said it is doing "quite well" - which is why is why they are adding the 2nd daily.

I'm sure it is slow this month, but I don't have specific figures. The new frequency doesn't happen until April.

mariner
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dia77
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 27):
It's not a matter of facts or trying to disprove anything. I'm sure you're very knowledgable. However, the way you talk to people is less than, well, shall I say Christian? (Or whatever)

You are obviously very new to airliners.net (based on the fact that you joined in December). I have followed Mariner's posts for the last several years, and I have found his insight to be very rational (is that Christian?). I think it's pretty bold of you to attack members of this forum and pass judgement before you even know who you are talking to. Mariner has consistently backed his theories with substance.

[Edited 2007-01-30 03:38:03]
 
Airportguy1971
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 30):
That statement says alot about you.

An unprovoked attack on a respected user such as Mariner says a lot about you...

Mariner isn't afraid or unwilling to to point out when F9 blunders.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:12 pm

Why is everyone talking about Frontier's food service? LAX-SFO is not long enough for food, so it's beverage only. I'm not sure if B6 gives out snacks on LGB-OAK. My main points are that B6 is better in this case because TV service is free and seat pitch is greater. 0.2" in width is a minimal difference.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 8):
Also, many more people fly from LAX then LGB.

Hmm, could this have anything to do with how UA has a big hub there, that's where international flights go, and that's where the frequency is and so forth? For someone who is O&D between Los Angeles and the Bay Area, LGB and LAX don't make that much of a difference except in frequency. My point is that the O&D economy pax don't care whether they fly out of LAX or LGB. They are only 20 miles from each other, which isn't much considering how big the LA metro is. Besides, LAX technically is on the very western end of the LA metro due to the ocean, while LGB is slighty more central. So distance to the airport won't be an issue for most people either.
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DL777LAX
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 34):
My point is that the O&D economy pax don't care whether they fly out of LAX or LGB. They are only 20 miles from each other, which isn't much considering how big the LA metro is. Besides, LAX technically is on the very western end of the LA metro due to the ocean, while LGB is slighty more central. So distance to the airport won't be an issue for most people either.

Have you ever BEEN to LA? do you know what the traffic is like between LAX and LGB on the 405? It can take at least an hour at any given moment during the day. Plus, for someone north of LAX, which is only 20 minutes from my house, what sense would I have to drive an hour or so more then I have to to save a few bucks. (which would probably be swallowed by gas money anyway).

And no, LAX is not on the western end of the urban area. Technically, the palisades and Malibu are more due west. So is the San Fernando Valley (shortened to "the valley" if your from LA).

LGB is not more central to a majority of westsiders. If anything, they would use BUR over LGB, but, most would use LAX anyway.

And, to close off, every mile takes at least 5 minutes to drive on the freeway during traffic. And, we never have traffic in LA. (sarcasm)

Of course, the unsuspecting tourist doesn't know this.

Anyway, on topic, it doesn't surprise me that F9 is choosing to right-size equipment. less capacity means less seats to fill, which means lower break-even point.
Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:35 pm

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 30):


Quote:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
I'm not about to change and this writing style that you object to has gven me a great career.

That statement says alot about you.

Knowing mariner's real world identity his statement is very true. I wish my writing had given me a quarter of his professional career.

What I like about mariner is he tells you what he thinks and is not afraid to shoot straight. Anything less would just create a mess.

Frontier itself also thinks a lot about his comments, N937FR was unofficially nicknamed "mariner".
http://flyfrontier.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=678
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as739x
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:42 pm

DL777LAX. Thank you for clearing this up for Alex. And I dont know what the UA hub had anything to do with the point I made to him.

Alex your completly missing my point. LGB is restricted (slots), less frequency and the majority of F9 competition is not with B6 on passengers. I would doubt many passengers are lost to B6. And personally, on a 55 minute flight I could care less on who's economy class is better. I want the cheapest fare, best frequency, and best mileage program, etc.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
airplaneboy
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 34):
My main points are that B6 is better in this case because TV service is free and seat pitch is greater. 0.2" in width is a minimal difference.

Greetings AlexPorter!  

Just a clarification...the DirecTV service is complimentary on all F9 flights between LAX and SFO.

A recurring topic between F9 and B6 is the issue of B6 offering complimentary DirecTV service on all flights, while F9 charges $5 per segment for all flights (with the exception of international flights, ANC, and LAX-SFO).

LiveTV is owned by the same holdings company that owns jetBlue Airways. Frontier, however, must pay a fee (based on load factor) to LiveTV regardless of whether or not anyone purchased the LiveTV service. The $5 charge serves to offset this additional cost to Frontier, while still allowing Frontier Airlines to offer some form of inflight entertainment at an affordable price. Wild Blue Yonder, Frontier's own channel (as well as the map) are always complimentary. Pay-per-view movies are also available on 3 separate channels, with one of them dedicated to Disney movies and shorts for younger audiences.

A bit off topic: All Frontier EarlyReturns Summit and Ascent members receive complimentary DirecTV service. Summit members also receive complimentary alcoholic beverages.

Mariner (whom I've had the pleasure of "getting to know" over the past three years) - You are and continue to be one of the most respected members in this forum. Please keep your insightful posts coming. Your insight and sharing of sources are greatly welcomed and invaluable. 

I agree that jetBlue Airways and Frontier Airlines both have great products.

Regards,
AB

[Edited 2007-01-30 08:26:15]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting RocANDtpa (Reply 13):
B6 has the better seat pitch with 34/36 for B6 and 33 for F9

Not yet. But they will. Right now it averages out to be the same on most aircraft. 32/34 averages to 33. They were advertising the greater seat pitch on LA radio before they implemented it, which is false advertising, and the ads seem to have vanished...

Quoting RocANDtpa (Reply 13):
B6 has the better in-flight entertainment with free direct tv, free xm music and movies for a fee. F9 has direct tv for a $5 fee

F9 has the better food with wraps and other "real" food on some flights. B6 has only unhealthy snacks

This trip is too short for either to matter, and on the short trim F9 gives tv for free.

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 34):
Hmm, could this have anything to do with how UA has a big hub there

No, it has everything to do with nobody wanting to go to LGB. LGB is only convenient for people near LGB. If you live even 1/2 way between LGB and LAX, LAX is a far better option. If you live even 1/2 way between LGB and SNA, SNA is the better airport. People north of LAX or to the east are going to prefer LAX, ONT or BUR.

Live in LA for a while, you'll know how limited an option LGB really is.

F9 is having trouble because they don't advertise right, their flights are not timed that well, and AA and UA are undercutting them on the weekends and in the mornings on price, from what I can tell. Whenever I look to book F9 is not the lowest price when I want to fly, and the timing of their frequencies aren't spaced correctly. I think this is really hurting F9, because it's not building a reputation among LA citizens or Bay citizens, since they don't come in as the lowest price.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AlexPorter
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:04 pm

 flamed 

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 38):
Greetings AlexPorter!  smile 

Thanks for the smile! I needed that.

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 38):
Just a clarification...the DirecTV service is complimentary on all F9 flights between LAX and SFO.

Why is this? Because the flights are less than an hour? I know I get charged on PHX-DEN which is only about a half an hour longer, so I thought they charged on all the domestic runs.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 39):
No, it has everything to do with nobody wanting to go to LGB. LGB is only convenient for people near LGB. If you live even 1/2 way between LGB and LAX, LAX is a far better option. If you live even 1/2 way between LGB and SNA, SNA is the better airport. People north of LAX or to the east are going to prefer LAX, ONT or BUR.

So who does use LGB then? And why does B6 use it instead of, say, BUR (or LAX)? I would think that they would go for an airport with wide appeal. (Yes I know they use BUR but only to JFK - I meant as a focus city like they have at LGB).

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 35):
Have you ever BEEN to LA?

Despite the angry/sarcastic tone of this question, I'll go ahead and answer it anyway. I have been to the LA area on a bus trip from Phoenix. We used I-10 to Cal-57 to I-210 into Pasadena. The freeways were moving well so I thought that the real heavy stuff we hear about was more in the city of LA. Also, I was previously thinking that LGB might be an alternative to LAX, mainly because the Google Earth image of LAX shows cars backed up for drop-off for a long distance on the LAX access roads. So these two experiences combined made me assume that the suburban freeways didn't back up too much, and that even if they did people would be able to make up for the time they'd be waiting in the dropoff line. Sorry for my misunderstanding. Next time I want to be fried to a crisp I'll just go lay on my Arizona sidewalk in July (my point is, if you want to disassemble my poorly-constructed arguments, be a little nicer about it).
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 40):
Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 38):
Just a clarification...the DirecTV service is complimentary on all F9 flights between LAX and SFO.

Why is this? Because the flights are less than an hour? I know I get charged on PHX-DEN which is only about a half an hour longer, so I thought they charged on all the domestic runs.

I'm sorry. I forgot to add that they are complimentary on the LAX-SFO corridor for promotional purposes.  Smile

Cheers!
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 32):
Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 27):
It's not a matter of facts or trying to disprove anything. I'm sure you're very knowledgable. However, the way you talk to people is less than, well, shall I say Christian? (Or whatever)

You are obviously very new to airliners.net (based on the fact that you joined in December). I have followed Mariner's posts for the last several years, and I have found his insight to be very rational (is that Christian?). I think it's pretty bold of you to attack members of this forum and pass judgement before you even know who you are talking to. Mariner has consistently backed his theories with substance.

Not to mention, he has one of the longest "Respected User" lists I've ever seen. That would be out of genuine respect, as opposed to political or nationalistic bandwagoning that qualifies some for "respect". I personally enjoy Mariner's writing style, a change of pace for some of the ill-edited text posted here.

-Rampart
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:56 pm

Why does F9 make no partnership to improve the results on California routes?

AQ could be a good code-share partner for F9 flights between DEN and SAN, SNA and OAK.
 
rdwelch
Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 38):
Mariner (whom I've had the pleasure of "getting to know" over the past three years) - You are and continue to be one of the most respected members in this forum. Please keep your insightful posts coming. Your insight and sharing of sources are greatly welcomed and invaluable.

I agree that jetBlue Airways and Frontier Airlines both have great products.

Regards,
AB

AirMike2 might want to reconsider what his idea of a debate would be as opposed to a personal attack.

Gus
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
shane
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 16):
They could have picked an underserved market, and LAX/SFO in its many routes its NOT.

Why not SFO-SAN instead? We all know Southwest does this in a big way from the East Bay, but isn't UA the only one doing it from SFO and often with ridiculous fares?

Oh, and to you two whiners, go stand in the corner and zip it!  Wink
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Shane (Reply 45):
Why not SFO-SAN instead? We all know Southwest does this in a big way from the East Bay, but isn't UA the only one doing it from SFO and often with ridiculous fares?

Alaska does SFO-SAN. 4 flight per day.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
shane
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 46):
Alaska does SFO-SAN. 4 flight per day.

I stand corrected. Do any of you think there's still room for another carrier on this route?
 
quickmover
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:14 am

I see F9's dilema as being very similar to Airtran's. Both have a big presence in their home hubs (ATL, DEN). Neither have been entirely successful at point to point beyond their main hubs. Both need to diversify away from a single primary hub to grow profitably. I believe this is why FL is trying to buy another hub in MKE. The theory that it is easier to compete from a strong market share position rather than adding select flights into heavily established routes.

Too bad the fleets don't match up. A F9/FL merger would be great for both.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3655
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Frontier CEO Says California Route Has Been Slow

Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 38):
A bit off topic: All Frontier EarlyReturns Summit and Ascent members receive complimentary DirecTV service. Summit members also receive complimentary alcoholic beverages.

Mariner (whom I've had the pleasure of "getting to know" over the past three years) - You are and continue to be one of the most respected members in this forum. Please keep your insightful posts coming. Your insight and sharing of sources are greatly welcomed and invaluable.

I agree that jetBlue Airways and Frontier Airlines both have great products.

Regards,
AB

You know Airplaneboy, you are a darned good at your sales! LOL! Where did you learn to push the Early Returns? Your a heck of a worker, and I have no doubts that your 110% successful up at 35,000 feet. F9 should be honored to have such an awesome worker like yourself! How are you by the way? IM me if you get a chance.

Anyways, Mariner is a very respected chap, and he knows this airline well.

I have said it a gazillion times, it takes time. Just like Potter said, it will take time and patience. There is no doubt that things will pick up in the market. First you need trust, then comes loyalty.
I Am A Different Animal!!

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