cltguy
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US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:50 am

Well now that the Delta merger is over we can focus on more fun things. Such as will US Airways replace their 737 fleet with Airbus A319/20?

On the earnings call yesterday USAirways management stated they would be announcing "very soon" an airplane order to replace their 737-300/400 fleet. They currently have 96 B737 in their fleet.

If they had merged with Delta then it was a foregone conclusion they would have ordered new 737s. Now that deal is off it looks like Airbus is back on top.

Looks to me like US Airways could be announcing an order for about 100 Airbus A320s soon.
 
KELPkid
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:52 am

Here's an interesting idea: HP had the A318 on order (with the P&W 6000 engine), but backed out of the deal post 9/11 after the P&W 6000 fiasco.

Now that that's been solved (P&W 6000A), any chance we might see the baby bus at HP/US?
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EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
Now that that's been solved (P&W 6000A), any chance we might see the baby bus at HP/US?

I highly doubt it. Embraer has the in now. USAirways started taking deliveries on the 190's. They will probably see how they integrate and then place an E190/195 order and a 319/320/321 order.
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CXA330300
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):


Now that that's been solved (P&W 6000A), any chance we might see the baby bus at HP/US?

Perhaps if they're replacing 737-500s, but I'm predicting more 319s and 320s.
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Danairbus
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 3):
Perhaps if they're replacing 737-500s

US only operates the 737-300/400 not the 500's
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:56 am

It would be nice to see US obtain a handful of 737NG's. But thats just me....
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ABQopsHP
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:02 am

I havent heard anything about us looking at the 318 again, but I schlepp bags for a living. Personally I like the 318. If I recall our 318s were to hold about 112 pax, but with the new ERJs coming online, who knows what the company will do.
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:04 am

With Boeing being one of the main creditors rebuffing US in the DL merger, Mr. Parker might just snub Boeing back.
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floridaflyboy
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see US obtain a handful of 737NG's. But thats just me....

Agreed. I think the 737 looks incredible in the new US scheme. But, I don't see it happening.
Good goes around!
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 7):
With Boeing being one of the main creditors rebuffing US in the DL merger, Mr. Parker might just snub Boeing back.

I can see your point. Just another reason that the whole idea was a bad one in the first place.
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AirframeAS
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 8):
But, I don't see it happening.

I agree. Its wishful thinking. US has a huge Airbus fleet and is very loyal to them. AND....the 737 line is backlogged for so many years now. So getting any 737NG frames for US isn't going to happen....UNLESS Parker looks at the 739LR.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
LAXintl
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:17 am

According to employee meetings, Parker has stated both the A32X and 737NG families are viable candidates.

Due to the potential large order and the economics of scale, a A32x order is far from a done deal according to him. With both US East and West having lots of 737 experience and with much of the needed infrastructure already existing the Boeing types are very viable candidates, with pricing terms being the single largest factor of a future order.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I agree. Its wishful thinking. US has a huge Airbus fleet and is very loyal to them. AND....the 737 line is backlogged for so many years now. So getting any 737NG frames for US isn't going to happen....UNLESS Parker looks at the 739LR.

As much as I like boeing and would prefer to see all US flag carriers go with them, I think Doug Parker has an axe to grind with them and will go for the Airbus A318/19/20 option. Any bets as to who gets the engine contract? RR? P&W?
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Lumberton
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
I think Doug Parker has an axe to grind with them and will go for the Airbus A318/19/20 option.

Are you referring to the fact that Boeing was on the DL creditors committee? If so, I think you may be on to something.
Edit: However, their current large fleet of A320s has got to count for something too!

[Edited 2007-01-31 22:32:22]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
KELPkid
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
Any bets as to who gets the engine contract? RR? P&W?

As I recall, GE and Airbus were the primary financiers of the "Save our bacon" HP/US merger deal, so I wouldn't be suprised to see all narrowbody Airbii CFM powered...
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LCFreeman49
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:03 am

US needs wide bodies as well as narrow bodies, if you ask me...
Thanks For Flying with Delta....
 
CXfirst
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:10 am

I forsee a happy airbus in the coming month or two.

Replacing 93 737, that will be a large order.

Don't think that US will get any 737NG, as they already have A320's.

-CXfirst
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
As I recall, GE and Airbus were the primary financiers of the "Save our bacon" HP/US merger deal, so I wouldn't be suprised to see all narrowbody Airbii CFM powered...

Actually when they announced the additional A321 order in 2006, neither CFM or IAE engines were specified. I could see engine choice going either way.
 
EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 18):
US needs wide bodies as well as narrow bodies, if you ask me...

Desperately. But what can they get soon? 1/2 dozen 767s?
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
CRJ900
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:17 am

Didn't US Airways order 15 x A321 some months ago? Maybe they will fly fewer flights with bigger airplanes? US Airways is the world's largest A321 operator already, aren't they? The A321 is a beauty... more of them, please  Smile
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Lumberton
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16):
I forsee a happy airbus in the coming month or two.

Personal opinion only, the NB order for US will go to Airbus. Yes, Airbus will be happy, but no where near as happy had US and DL merged! How many MD80s are coming up for replacement at DL? IMO (and this is an opinion--no links or sources) US would have been more willing than DL to consider moving to Airbus for the MD80 replacement.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
gigneil
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting Cltguy (Thread starter):
If they had merged with Delta then it was a foregone conclusion they would have ordered new 737s. Now that deal is off it looks like Airbus is back on top.

I don't think it was a foregone conclusion. The Airbus fleet would have still been larger.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
AND....the 737 line is backlogged for so many years now.

The A320 backlog is longer, however Airbus is planning to increase their rate.

My guess, however, is that US Airways has options that can be converted, and they will get favorable slots.

NS
 
EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 20):
Didn't US Airways order 15 x A321 some months ago?

Yes. They have 28 now I believe.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
AA737-823
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Airbii CFM powered

Particularly since neither Rolls NOR Pratt even offer engines for the A320...
 
LCFreeman49
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 19):
Desperately. But what can they get soon? 1/2 dozen 767s?

I was doingsome research there are some 767's parked in the desert as well as some 777's, I am unsure if they could get them but they would be a solution in the short term.

I see US having to fight for their very survival now even with making a profit because they are so behind on the International wave.

Just my two cents.
Thanks For Flying with Delta....
 
EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 25):
I see US having to fight for their very survival now even with making a profit because they are so behind on the International wave.

Keep in mind US is the dominant airline in the Caribbean. Narrowbody CASM with international RASM. Not bad at all.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
KELPkid
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 24):
Particularly since neither Rolls NOR Pratt even offer engines for the A320...

Not entirely true...isn't the IAE V2500 a 50/50 joint venture between Pratt and Rolls?  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:33 am

From 2008 to 2010 US will already take deliveries of 37 320 family aircraft.

15 - A321
9 - A320
13 - A319
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 26):
Keep in mind US is the dominant airline in the Caribbean.

I am reasonably confident AA would disagree with you on that, and they would be right.

NS
 
LCFreeman49
Posts: 100
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 26):
Keep in mind US is the dominant airline in the Caribbean. Narrowbody CASM with international RASM. Not bad at all

Isn't American the dominant carrier in the Carribean?
Thanks For Flying with Delta....
 
ca2ohHP
Posts: 657
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 25):
I see US having to fight for their very survival now even with making a profit because they are so behind on the International wave.

They'll pick up DL's 737-800's in liquidation, install 190 seats at 28" pitch and expand to Japan via Hawaii and Guam.  Yeah sure
Seriously come on man...Like I told you in past posts, because the 350XWB is now 3+ years delayed into service, US is in an excellent position to cut a deal for some interim Airbus widebodies.
 
LCFreeman49
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:51 am

US owns the rights to Japan from HP, correct?
Thanks For Flying with Delta....
 
EvilForce
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:51 am

Sorry I should have said "a dominant carrier" not "the".

Two lashes for me.  Big grin
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 34):
US owns the rights to Japan from HP, correct?

No, HP actually sold the rights to NW many years ago. CO now operates the route...not sure if NW does anymore.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
socalfive
Posts: 474
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
Due to the potential large order and the economics of scale, a A32x order is far from a done deal according to him. With both US East and West having lots of 737 experience and with much of the needed infrastructure already existing the Boeing types are very viable candidates, with pricing terms being the single largest factor of a future order.

...Which is EXACTLY why Both A & B are being considered. My money is on the Airbus for the most obvious of all possible reasons.

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 7):
With Boeing being one of the main creditors rebuffing US in the DL merger, Mr. Parker might just snub Boeing back.

Yeah, except this isn't Jr High School.
 
timboflier215
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 27):
.isn't the IAE V2500 a 50/50 joint venture between Pratt and Rolls? Wink

It's about 1/3 RR, 1/3 P&W and the rest is a couple of Japanese companies. But yeah, GE, P&W and RR don't offer enignes for the A320 series on their own. RR/P&W is IAE and GE and a French company is CFM. What are US/HP's current narrow bodies powered by?
 
COERJ145
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:44 pm

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 38):
What are US/HP's current narrow bodies powered by?

US's Airbus's are CFM powered, while HP's Airbus's are IAE.

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 17):
Actually when they announced the additional A321 order in 2006, neither CFM or IAE engines were specified. I could see engine choice going either way.

My bet is CFM, as more than half of US's Airbus fleet is CFM(102 CFM and 95 IAE).
 
necigrad
Posts: 173
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 39):

My bet is CFM, as more than half of US's Airbus fleet is CFM(102 CFM and 95 IAE).

That's not much of a difference, like maybe 5-7%. And isn't the IAE more fuel efficient?

The Airbus or Boeing is wide open. There are good reasons for both decisions. With more Airbusses there is the advantage of similar cockpits and parts. The crews aren't 100% interchangeable, but the differences training is less. Boeing is a substantial part of both fleets. One isnt' necessarily better then the other, and this will likely come down to the best deal. And THAT may simply be whichever of the two wants the business more.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 39):
My bet is CFM, as more than half of US's Airbus fleet is CFM(102 CFM and 95 IAE).

They already respecified all the new orders and deferrals as part of the new company to be delivered as CFM.

NS
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
AND....the 737 line is backlogged for so many years now. So getting any 737NG frames for US isn't going to happen....UNLESS Parker looks at the 739LR.

Just curious - why would they be able to get slots for a 739ER if there aren't slots for another subtype? Or do you think they would wait for them?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
I think Doug Parker has an axe to grind with them and will go for the Airbus A318/19/20 option.

US having a problem with Boeing over flt 427 was understandable. DP blowing a good deal on 737NG's over the failed Delta bid seems a bit of a stretch. Certainly from the perspective of fleet composition, it is Airbus' order to lose.

And I know your feelings about Parker, but do you really think either he or Boeing are going to walk away from a good deal?

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 19):
Desperately. But what can they get soon? 1/2 dozen 767s?

Why not? Maybe they can get some -300ER's on the cheap, and it's not a bad aircraft if the purchase price is right. Certainly we've seen a few sold in recent times. However, the A330 would seem to make a lot more sense for the longterm.

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 25):
I see US having to fight for their very survival now even with making a profit because they are so behind on the International wave.

Ya, they're on the verge of going under.  Yeah sure

-Dave
-Dave
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 41):
why would they be able to get slots for a 739ER if there aren't slots for another subtype?

I never suggested nor said that. There is a difference between LOOKING at the 739ER and GETTING slots for the 739ER....a HUGE difference.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Charliejag1
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:48 am

RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see US obtain a handful of 737NG's. But thats just me....

Crossing my fingers that we don't go with Airbus just because 'we owe them'.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
As I recall, GE and Airbus were the primary financiers of the "Save our bacon" HP/US merger deal, so I wouldn't be suprised to see all narrowbody Airbii CFM powered...

I sure hope not, we would be better off with 73NG's and 787s (in the future).
 
Adam T.
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 15):
US needs wide bodies as well as narrow bodies, if you ask me...

I agree as well....one question though, isn't US supposed to start receiving some A330-200s in the next year or two? I'm guessing those are coming in to replace the 762s. It would seem logical for US to go ahead with some more A330s to increase their widebody fleet if they want to continue their international expansion.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
Its wishful thinking. US has a huge Airbus fleet and is very loyal to them. AND....the 737 line is backlogged for so many years now. So getting any 737NG frames for US isn't going to happen....UNLESS Parker looks at the 739LR.

True, demand is far greater than the supply now, especially the rate at which the demand is satiated by supply (rate of production). They can only produce a certain amount of aircraft within a given time frame, and airlines, WN in particular, are asking for more aircraft than what Boeing can dish out in that given time frame. How far back is this backlog, 2010 or '12, about as far back as the 787?

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 15):
US needs wide bodies as well as narrow bodies, if you ask me...

Also very true; they only have what, 18 widebodies with I think 10 A330-200s on order(I believe delivery is some time next year or in 2009)? I can't remember the exact number of widebody 767 and A330 fleet they have to be exact. I think they have 8 or 9 A330-300s and I think roughly the same for the 767. At the rate that US is growing their international gateway at PHL, those planes are surely quite exhausted, no pun intended... I posted on another thread that the A330s courtesy of Austrian Airways would suit them fine, but I don't know if that will happen or not, or if those aircraft are even available still...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 36):
Yeah, except this isn't Jr High School.

You'd be surprised; I've often said that international diplomacy is carried on at the level of 3-year olds in a sandbox and unfortunately sometimes business is too. I see it as more likely for Airbus, just because of the fact that they are keeping the A32x's and that would lead to more commonality. But if Boeing gives them a better deal they might just go with it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
mah584jr
Posts: 422
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Adam T. (Reply 44):
I agree as well....one question though, isn't US supposed to start receiving some A330-200s in the next year or two? I'm guessing those are coming in to replace the 762s. It would seem logical for US to go ahead with some more A330s to increase their widebody fleet if they want to continue their international expansion.

No A330's are currently on order from US. This rumor continues to pop up. They had some on order but they were dropped a few years back.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 47):
No A330's are currently on order from US. This rumor continues to pop up. They had some on order but they were dropped a few years back.

Crap!!

Well that was just foolish on US' part, and mine for not realizing that those were rumors  banghead 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
D L X
Posts: 11655
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 47):
No A330's are currently on order from US. This rumor continues to pop up. They had some on order but they were dropped a few years back.

I didn't think these were rumors. US initially ordered 30 A330s (firm plus options). Can you tell us how you know? I'm looking for a definitive answer if you know it. TIA
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 47):
No A330's are currently on order from US. This rumor continues to pop up. They had some on order but they were dropped a few years back.

No, its not a rumor. We've repeatedly showed the purchase agreement reached for delivery of the planes as part of the exit from bankruptcy, which restructured not only the A320 series planes but reconfirmed them, as well as the A330s and A350s.

There are still A330-200s on order.

NS
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
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RE: US Replacement Order For 737

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 47):
No A330's are currently on order from US. This rumor continues to pop up. They had some on order but they were dropped a few years back.

No, there are still 10 A330-200s scheduled to be delivered over the next few years.

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