JRDC930
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Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:21 am

Just wondering why for a city of its size LAX has a relatively small number of NON-Stop European destinations? I know the hub system definitely has a role in this but what about international carriers. The only cities I can think of that get non stop service from LAX in Europe are:
AMS
PAR
LON
FRA
Ithink Munich
DUS, again I'm not sure
Dublin
Moscow
ZRH
I think thats it for nonstop service. is there no demand for non stop travel to from other parts of Europe from LAX?
Thanks for any info on this. I personally would like to see more service, simply because its my home airport.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
Avianca
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Thread starter):
AMS
PAR
LON
FRA
Ithink Munich
DUS, again I'm not sure
Dublin
Moscow
ZRH

some are even double-daily + all the conections.... I think it is not too bad
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:37 am

The list of European destinations look good for LAX, thats more destinations than most have. My beef is why dont US based airlines fly more to Asia? LAX is very underserved to China.
It is what it is...
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
The list of European destinations look good for LAX, thats more destinations than most have. My beef is why dont US based airlines fly more to Asia? LAX is very underserved to China.

China and the US only offer so many authorizations to fly to China. It's a restricted market with new openings only coming every so many years. This last one was for a UA IAD-PEK.

No one given US airline has a very strong presence in LAX.... perhaps if/when DL gets all moved in, they'll set up shop on transpacific routes.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
B742
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:47 am

Europe-LAX/SFO has been a very hard market for some airlines. It is a difficult market to capture. There has been miserable failures on some routes.

European Flights at LAX now include:
Aer Lingus - Dublin
Aeroflot - Moscow SVO
Air France - Paris CDG
Air India - Frankfurt
Air New Zealand - London Heathrow
Air Tahiti Nui - Paris CDG
American Airlines - London Heathrow
British Airways - London Heathrow
KLM - Amsterdam
LTU - Düsseldorf
Lufthansa - Munich and Frankfurt
Swiss - Zurich
United Airlines - London Heathrow
Virgin Atlantic - London Heathrow

As you can see from the above list, there are not many cities offered directly from LAX.

There are very few secondary markets such as MAN that do not support regular West Coast flights!

Rob!  wave 
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:59 am

Simple, no demand. LA is mostly a South American hub, and to a lesser extent an Asian hub. Frankfurt/London/Paris is covered anyways, that's all you need for Europe. However, we do need Alitalia. Italy and Southern Europe is very popular for LA, don't know why they haven't made a route already.
 
planesarecool
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:07 am

Also remember that LAX-Europe is a very long sector and takes at least two aircraft to operate a daily rotation. In most cases, the aircraft can be utilised on shorter routes which make just as much or more money.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:12 am

SK dumped CPH-LAX about 10 years ago, and AZ ditched MXP-LAX just a few years back. Not sure how viable a Scandinavian link would be, but an Italy link would be good (although AZ doesn't seem to be in a position to do anything right now)

There have been rumours of IB MAD-LAX now since before 9/11, and then again more recently - in addition to talk of Air Madrid on the same route (obviously that won't happen now!)

The big glaring hole in the European offering from LAX from my perspective is MAN - if Vegas can support BD from MAN, then so can LAX!

and looking at the list, I can't really think of additional EU destinations that would support service...?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
Simple, no demand. LA is mostly a South American hub, and to a lesser extent an Asian hub. Frankfurt/London/Paris is covered anyways, that's all you need for Europe.

Thats a joke right??? LAX is Americas primary gateway to Asia. On the other side of things, LAX has very little air traffic to South America. There is lots of demand from LAX-Europe. How else would be able to support secondary routes like SVO, DUB, and DUS??? Most flights from LAX-LHR/CDG/FRA are multiple flights daily. Out of curiosity, where did your assesment of LAX's position in reguards to South America and Asia come from???
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EI321
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:17 am

Im surpeised at this. I thought Iberia, Alitalia, SAS, Finnair, TAP, Austrian, etc would all fly to LAX!
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
No one given US airline has a very strong presence in LAX.... perhaps if/when DL gets all moved in, they'll set up shop on transpacific routes.

I disagree. UA has 220+ daily flights out of LAX... given that most of them are domestic. AA also has a pretty big presence there as well. International service though, you are correct.
 
WN230
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
LAX is Americas primary gateway to Asia.

I thought SFO was America's primary gateway to Asia, no?

WN230
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LAXintl
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
LA is mostly a South American hub

Have you gotten LA and Miami confused?

There is almost no South America flying from LAX. Outside of daily LAN flights, the only other South America flying is a mere 3x per week Avianca service.


As far as service to Europe, as general rule US West Coast - Europe services are simply hard to operate profitably due to the distance involved in relation to fares offered. While LA is a huge market (for instance LAX-LHR is 10x daily in the summer), outside of European hubs its hard to sustain service.

LAX on the other hand is by far the largest US gateway to Asia both passenger wise and in cargo.
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SJCRRPAX
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
Simple, no demand. LA is mostly a South American hub, and to a lesser extent an Asian hub. Frankfurt/London/Paris is covered anyways, that's all you need for Europe.

Thats a joke right??? LAX is Americas primary gateway to Asia. On the other side of things, LAX has very little air traffic to South America. There is lots of demand from LAX-Europe. How else would be able to support secondary routes like SVO, DUB, and DUS??? Most flights from LAX-LHR/CDG/FRA are multiple flights daily. Out of curiosity, where did your assesment of LAX's position in reguards to South America and Asia come from???

Well, if you consider Mexico as South America (well that's a stretch, maybe he meant Latin America), than I think he is correct. THe top two international carriers at LAX according to the LAX website are Mexicana and Alaska with about 1.2 million pax's each. There is no Asian Carrier in the top 10 list, and the American Carriers for the most part are domestic in the top 10 list.
 
SKY1
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
LAX is Americas primary gateway to Asia.

I agree with you, LAXdude, ...and I'm very surprised some people can ignore this platitude.

From Europe to LAX I think there are enough services, also including bargains or at least non-expensives offers to fly US West Coast.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 13):
Well, if you consider Mexico as South America

Sorry, but Mexico is not South America.
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AirWillie6475
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 13):
well that's a stretch, maybe he meant Latin America)

Ok, lets' just say it MEXICO!
 
kl662
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
LA is mostly a South American hub...

Really? AFAIK, there's not too much that goes south of Central America. LAN to Peru... Is there anything to Brazil these days?

I was amazed at how hard it was to get down to Argentina from LAX after DL cancelled the LAX-ATL portion of my journey a couple of years ago. Ultimately had to take CM down through PTY -- best I could do short of waiting 24 hours.

(Heh -- sorry. My reply was a little late.)

[Edited 2007-02-02 02:03:21]
 
PanAm747
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:26 am

Quote:
Also remember that LAX-Europe is a very long sector and takes at least two aircraft to operate a daily rotation. In most cases, the aircraft can be utilised on shorter routes which make just as much or more money.

 checkmark 

And to add to that, one must consider the value of "alliances". Austrian, for example, finds it uneconomical at this time to fly to LAX; however, with an alliance those same passengers can continue to earn miles with Austrian, United, Lufthansa, or whatever partner airline they connect with. Not a non-stop, but the rewards are there for the hassle of connecting.

The big three in Europe right now are BA, LH, and AF. All three are well connected to LAX, and a large list of connections is possible via London, Paris, and Frankfurt/Munich. All airlines have to focus on what routes earn them money, and for smaller carriers, the long-distance routes of the past just don't make as much economic sense as they might have.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting WN230 (Reply 11):
I thought SFO was America's primary gateway to Asia, no?

For total flights and passenger to Asia, LAX is way above SFO. However as far as the most transpacific traffic by one carrier, the SFO is the clear winner (with UA). But LAX has the most Asian airlines of any airport in the country, has the most flights to Asia of any airport in the country, and carries the most passengers to Asia of any airport in the country. Also I believe LAX has the most Asian O&D of any airport in the country.
It is what it is...
 
JRDC930
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:11 am

Thanks For the info, i guess LAX does have a fairly decent amount of destinations. I just feel as some say,that areas like Spain, and Italy could also support some flights. As an airplane spotter it would be cool to see more European liveries, but from a business sense i guess more non stops to LAX just doesn't make sense. I for one hate connections (especialy at ATL or LHR) for the most part, but thats life i suppose. Never really though about the distance factor... thought that was more of an issue for other areas. I ll keep dreaming though... may be one day we'll pick up another european carrier.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
brightcedars
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:59 pm

I also believe it has to do with these two factors:

1. It ties up more than 24 hours for a rotation.
2. Until 10 years ago most aircraft capable of covering the distance nonstop were oversized for secondary markets.

Although today's offer on the LA-Europe market clearly points to A380, smaller efficient jets such as the 787-8 and the A350-800 may help split the offering into point-to-point services where MXP-LAX, VIE-LAX, BRU-LAX, CPH-LAX, MAD-LAX and others at 3/week or more become sustainable.

It all points to either Airbus' strategy (hub) or Boeing's (point-to-point). What is happening today with the 757 accross the Atlantic could be an indication of what will happen with other aircraft and other markets at one point.
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Kevin777
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
some are even double-daily + all the conections.... I think it is not too bad

I don't think it's too bad either - also, given that LAX-Europe is such a long distance, you also have to use the big birds; hence no eg. CO-757 flights etc., that often makes a European route viable even if to a less important city. As someone else noted, you also have to dedicate more capacity to LAX than to, say, NYC, because of the distance, and in order not to have too thin frequencies you have to fly from bigger markets that can support the whole thing.

I think another reason is that LAX is (apart from SAN and Hawaii!) at the corner furthest away from Europe; hence, flights to/from Europe have to heavily rely on LAX as the final destination/origin. Without much transfer at LAX, this of course reduces the amount of pax you can fill in a plane bound for LAX, and hence it reduces viability of Europe-LAX routes to Europe.

Kevin777  Smile
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Getdonnie
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:44 am

If you consider LAX the gateway to Asia and JFK the gateway to Europe, comparatively speaking, you may have more destinations served in Europe from LAX than Asian destinations served from JFK. In terms of Southern Europe how about LAX - BCN or LAX-Nice?

Alitalia did have Rome-LAX with the MD 11 at one time I guess no more unless they have plans to resume with their B777.

What about El Al? I thought there was a Tel Aviv service if we are including the ME as part of that region.

Thanks

ps If anyone can provide pics of the private jets that will be in Miami this w/e that would be much appreciated.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 13):
Well, if you consider Mexico as South America (well that's a stretch, maybe he meant Latin America), than I think he is correct.

MIA would still have it beat. The sheer amount of flights between there and Latin America, along with the Caribbean, makes MIA the gateway to Latin America.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting Getdonnie (Reply 22):
If you consider LAX the gateway to Asia and JFK the gateway to Europe, comparatively speaking, you may have more destinations served in Europe from LAX than Asian destinations served from JFK. In terms of Southern Europe how about LAX - BCN or LAX-Nice?

This is what im saying. I think LAX has lots of service to Europe. We have more service to Europe than the other West Coast Airports. The only airports I can think of that have more service to Europe are: NYC airports, ORD, ATL, MIA, and maybe BOS. We have non stops to lots of cities that some of those dont have. Our market can support nonstop flights to smaller markets like: TLV, DUB, and SVO. Considering our geographic location, we do damn well!!!
It is what it is...
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):
Considering our geographic location, we do damn well!!!



Amazing how the second largest metropolitan area in the USA has many flights to Europe and Asia. Dodgers suck though, and maybe if you get lucky you'll get an expansion football team.
 tongue 

Go Giants!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 25):
Dodgers suck though, and maybe if you get lucky you'll get an expansion football team.

HAHA, we wont get a football team. I cant thing of one team that would be willing to play at the crappy Coliseum downtown. Its downtown, theres no place to park, the neighborhood isnt the safest, traffic is horrible down there, and the coliseum is in horrible shape. Who would want to play there?

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 25):
Amazing how the second largest metropolitan area in the USA has many flights to Europe and Asia.

Kind of funny how that works out.  Silly
It is what it is...
 
jfk777
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:48 am

LAX has very high levels of service to Europe for the city farthest west and south in the country with such service. LHR alone has 3 BA, 2 AA, 2 UA, 1 ANZ and 2 Virgins Atlantic's daily. JFK has more to LHR, so does ORD, but LAX has more then Miami, Atlanta, IAD, Boston, Detroit, SEA and SFO. Considering KLm and SWISS fly to LAX, that makes a statement. LAX is SWISS'S only airport in the USA west of ORD. Lufthansa has 3 flights daily to Germany, so there is a huge market.

Tokyo by comaprison has 1 NW, 1 UA, 1 AA, 1 ANA, 1 Korean and 2 JAL. HKG has only the 3 Cathay744's. TPE gets 2 EVA and 2 China Air's. LHR is LAX bigest international destination outside the Americas. Qantas does have 6 daily flights to Australia so that a huge market too for LAX.
 
parisien
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:49 am

Did Alitalia really have Rome LAX non stop or did you mean Rome LAX with a stopover? I thought it was only MXP LAX non stop (indeed originated in Rome but with a stop in MXP). I took that flight once on the MD11. Too bad it was discontinued.
 
jfk777
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:51 am

LAX has very high levels of service to Europe for the city farthest west and south in the country with such service. LHR alone has 3 BA, 2 AA, 2 UA, 1 ANZ and 2 Virgins Atlantic's daily. JFK has more to LHR, so does ORD, but LAX has more then Miami, Atlanta, IAD, Boston, Detroit, SEA and SFO. Considering KLm and SWISS fly to LAX, that makes a statement. LAX is SWISS'S only airport in the USA west of ORD. Lufthansa has 3 flights daily to Germany, so there is a huge market.

Tokyo by comaprison has 1 NW, 1 UA, 1 AA, 1 ANA, 1 Korean and 2 JAL. HKG has only the 3 Cathay744's. TPE gets 2 EVA and 2 China Air's. LHR is LAX bigest international destination outside the Americas. Qantas does have 6 daily flights to Australia so that a huge market too for LAX.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 27):
TPE gets 2 EVA and 2 China Air's.

Plus Malaysian and daily Singapore Airlines flights.
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uclax
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:07 am

Back from my days working for DL at LAX during college (Go Bruins!) in the early 90s and other memories from the latter part of the 90s, here are some additional prior trans-Atlantic services from LAX, as well as a few that predated my DL and UCLA days:

BA to MAN on 763
TP to LIS via Azores on L15
AY to HEL (stopped somewhere) on DC10
DL to FRA on M11 (may have been an L15 at first)
TW to CDG on 747
TW and PA's LHR flights on 747s (sold to AA and UA, respectively)
Lauda to VIE on 763
IB to MAD on 747 (was stopped after IB started codesharing arrangement with Carnival via MIA)
LTU to DUS, mostly L15 but I think M11 and 330s were used as well
Martinair to AMS on 747
AA to CDG on 763
LO ran charters in summers to WAW (I think with stop at ORD) with IL6
JU to Belgrade (I think also with stop at ORD) with DC10
B-Cal to LGW on DC10 and at times 747s (acquired by BA, which continued to operate to LGW for several years after merger)
Transaero to Moscow, DC10s
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baw716
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:20 am

Ah, one question:
This list (plus the airline listing above) hits pretty much all the major European points, except Italy...which was there until AZ pulled out. Where else do you think carriers can afford to put their aircraft (from LAX...which requires a two aircraft operation, BTW)? There is more service ex LAX to Europe than there is from SFO at the moment...so where's the beef?

From what I can tell, LAX is being pretty well served right now. Add too much more and it will dilute the traffic on the existing routes.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:24 am

As far as Europe goes from LAX, the only markets I would say that we are missing to make it a full house are MAN, MAD, and one of the Italian airpots (probably MXP).
It is what it is...
 
LAXintl
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
AY to HEL (stopped somewhere) on DC10

Via SEA, however operated nonstop last few years it ran

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
TW to CDG on 747

And 763

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
Lauda to VIE on 763

via MUC (LH codeshare)

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
LTU to DUS, mostly L15 but I think M11 and 330s were used as well

LT also provided nonstops to MUC via LTU Sud 763s, and also way back provided nonstops to HAM with L15s.

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
Martinair to AMS on 747

Plus 763 and MD-11s

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
LO ran charters in summers to WAW (I think with stop at ORD) with IL6

Last couple summers was 762s nonstop from WAW

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
JU to Belgrade (I think also with stop at ORD) with DC10

Also Zagreb via ORD

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
Transaero to Moscow, DC10s

And 762s.

Quoting UCLAX (Reply 31):
AA to CDG on 763

Started at ORY initially.

Other airlines off your list

CityBird.
763s and MD-11s to BRU both nonstop and via OAK
Royal Jordanian
742s and L15s mostly via ORD to either AMS/VIE
VG Airlines
A330s from BRU
SAS
1st Europe-West Coast service via Polar Route. Ran for ages from DC-7, -8s, -10s, B747s and finally 763s.
AOM
DC-10s and A340 from ORY enroute to PPT
Corsair
B747s from ORY enroute to PPT

Plus host of seasonal charters including TransAmerica, World, Express One, Condor, Minerve, ATA, British Airtours, Excalibur, Soberlair, Balair etc..
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JRDC930
Topic Author
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:52 pm

Ok Lax does have a fair amount of destinations, but what about southern and eastern europe any slight posibility that maybe one more carrier from each or one of those regions could support a rout? i guess i just like european carriers...lol.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting Getdonnie (Reply 22):
What about El Al? I thought there was a Tel Aviv service if we are including the ME as part of that region.

I was going to reply that the service was a one-stop through YYZ, but I see on the website they've turned it into a thrice-weekly nonstop with the 777. When did this happen?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:54 pm

There is also just much less of a European connection in California than there is on the East Coast and Northern USA. LA is a very large metropolis, but the bulk of that population is hispanic, asian (including Ukraine), middle eastern, and random americans who moved west. That means there aren't the large communities of Western European descent like in other areas. There aren't big Irish or Italian neighborhoods, relatively speaking. There weren't a lot of German settlers in California like there were in many other parts of the country.

Tourism from Europe tends to want to fly on European carriers. USA carriers have tried nonstops to CDG and FRA and others, but they never seem to work. And since European carriers are hub centric, they are only going to fly from those biggest of cities.

Living out here, I see Californians as VERY provincial. They consider "loving to travel" to be Mexico, Hawaii and Las Vegas. Going all the way to Europe is a hassle for them. And the Hispanic people here have no interest in traveling to anywhere but their home countries from what I can see. The ones who are here legally and are free to travel tend to visit their home countries for 4 weeks at a time, and the rest of the year, they work 6 days a week. European travel is not of interest. Same holds true for Asians, who go back to Korea or Thailand, etc., for 3-4 weeks a year, and otherwise don't travel at all...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
rootsair
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:31 pm

A couple of years ago, we even had GVA-LAX-GVA with SR MD11
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
longhaul67
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):
Living out here, I see Californians as VERY provincial.

I don't blame them. Who would want to fly thousands of miles and spend thousands of $$ to go lie on a sunny beach somewhere when you practically live on one 365 days a year...
 
nzrich
Posts: 1095
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 29):
Qantas does have 6 daily flights to Australia so that a huge market too for LAX.

And add in the 2/3 daily flights to New Zealand also on NZ

..Lax is the Main hub to the South Pacific from America
"Pride of the pacific"
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):
There is also just much less of a European connection in California than there is on the East Coast and Northern USA.

This is very true. Our main ties are to Asia and central America (mainly Mexico)

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):
That means there aren't the large communities of Western European descent like in other areas.

The one group of Western European people we do have a lot of (relatively) are the French. Im not exactly sure why, but there are alot of French people here (especially around Santa Monica). This is a little evident by the fact that Air France has a realatively large operation here. We also have a fair number of Russians living here (although I know thats not Western European).

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 37):
LA is a very large metropolis, but the bulk of that population is hispanic, asian (including Ukraine), middle eastern, and random americans who moved west.

Indeed this is true. About half of our population is Latino (hell we even have a radio station called Latino 96.3). We are also home to the largest populaition of Asians anywhere in North America (this is based on sheer number not percentage). From what I can gather, the majority of them are Korean, Thai, and Fillipino.

http://www.asian-nation.org/population.shtml

The link above shows how many Asians live in which particular metropolitan areas in the US.

I know also we have a very large number of Australians living in the Los Angeles area.

I personally believe LAX does very well for itself. We are the primary gateway to both Asia and the South Pacific (Australia and NZ). We also have more alot of Eurropean service. We have one of the largest O&D markets in the world (Particularly to Asia, which is eveident by the large number of Asian Carriers here). It might be the largest, but im not sure.
It is what it is...
 
ZRH
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 38):
A couple of years ago, we even had GVA-LAX-GVA with SR MD11

You are really sure with this? Was it the flight coming from Zurich (ZRH-GVA-LAX?)? I don't think that SR had two flights to LAX. Actually LAX was a relatively new destination for Swissair only opened in the 90ies (or probably late 80ies).
 
bmacleod
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Thread starter):
Just wondering why for a city of its size LAX has a relatively small number of NON-Stop European destinations? I know the hub system definitely has a role in this but what about international carriers. The only cities I can think of that get non stop service from LAX in Europe are:
AMS
PAR
LON
FRA
Ithink Munich
DUS, again I'm not sure
Dublin
Moscow
ZRH

Few?  confused 

I didn't realize LAX had that many European destinations. YVR and YUL would love to get even half that number.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
flyguy1
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:19 am

KLM will also be adding a second daily AMS flight this summer.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting LongHaul67 (Reply 39):
Who would want to fly thousands of miles and spend thousands of $$ to go lie on a sunny beach somewhere when you practically live on one 365 days a year...

Well, if all you care about is beaches, then that is true. And if you want "variety" you can fly to Hawaii, Mexico, Costa Rica, etc. in only a few hours. You can even go to the South Pacific in less time, and without a time zone change (or at most a couple hours).

But if you care about seeing other cultures, Europe is great. Sadly, I see many hispanics here in LA who have a near hatred of Europe as it stands for oppression, so celebrating it by traveling there is not high on their list.

When I visited Germany in summer 2005, the most common question I got was "why?" as if traveling to Europe was some sort of punishment. Oh well, I had a good time!

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
Im not exactly sure why, but there are alot of French people here (especially around Santa Monica).

Yes, but French especially prefer to fly their domestic carrier, AF vs. another brand. AA tried a daily CDG and pulled out. French are very nationalistic, and that's fine. And tourism to France, by Americans, from Los Angeles is really not that strong.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
We also have a fair number of Russians living here (although I know thats not Western European).

Yep, mostly Ukrainian from what I can tell. I live on the border of two areas here, one is one of the "little Russia" areas (there are multiple places where there are large Russian populations), and the other region is "little Vietnam" though of course, like anywhere around here, I am still surrounded predominantly by people from Mexico.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
From what I can gather, the majority of them are Korean, Thai, and Fillipino.

This is what I have noticed, too. China and Japan are represented, but Korean, Thai and Fillipino are even moreso.

I think the Korean ties are so strong in the inland empire that KE could actually run a 772 to ONT and fill it daily...  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:23 am

Not only Air NZ to London but Virgin do London double daily, and British Airways do it TRIPLE DAILY, all flights with 747-400. That's a lot of seats (and btw, they always get filled).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
JRDC930
Topic Author
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:39 am

Ok i guess I'm just greedy...lol. I'm probably one of those few Californians that hate California (no offense) and would like to visit as much of Europe (a continent unlike the US that has culture) as often and directly as possibler. but as i said before what about something to southern Europe or Spain. I'm surprised a Madrid flight cant be supported. although i realize from these post all the geographical and logistical problems involved. thanks every one for the info.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
nzrich
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
We are the primary gateway to both Asia and the South Pacific (Australia and NZ).

Also for the south pacific you have to add Samoa Tahiti Tonga Cook Islands and Fiji all with links to LAX as well as NZ and Aussie
"Pride of the pacific"
 
airbazar
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RE: Why So Few European Destinations From LAX?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:03 am

I think it's combination of factors. The LA area does not have as many ties to Europe as the East coast does. Additionaly, 2 aircraft are needed to operate a European route making it far more cost effective for airlines to use an East Coast city as their Euro-US gateway city. Also, the smaller aircraft that most airlines have in their international long haul fleets that's capable of making the route non-stop is a 772/A330 which may be too large an aircraft to serve secondary cities in Europe. You will find that NYC is in the same position regarding Asia flights as LAX is with respect to Europe, for the exact same reasons.