cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:52 am

I've noticed when looking online for flights, that CO does not seem to list any KL, DL or AF flights in its system for code-share purposes, which is somewhat surprising. For example, when looking for IAH-CDG, the AF flights don't show up, only the CO flights. Same thing when looking on the Air France flight. Similar KLM flights don't even show up, and neither do DL flights, however NW's flights are loaded into the system.

If these airlines are all in Skyteam together, shouldn't the flights show up for codeshare in the reservations system?
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Cba (Thread starter):
CO does not seem to list any KL, DL or AF flights in its system for code-share purposes, which is somewhat surprising. For example, when looking for IAH-CDG, the AF flights don't show up, only the CO flights. Same thing when looking on the Air France flight. Similar KLM flights don't even show up, and neither do DL flights, however NW's flights are loaded into the system.

Due to the anti-trust and government regulartory issues, CO does not codeshare with KL, DL, AF on trans-atlantic nor it doesn't need any codeshares because basically CO flies to everywhere.

Problem with European codeshare is that with the 2006 expansion by DL and CO, plus NW, AF, KL, AZ, they're pretty much dominating the trans-atlantic route across Europe, unlike Star's penetration on hub-to-hub flights. And these airlines won't pretty much just get settled on codeshare only, they want revenue sharing as well.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
goldorak
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
Due to the anti-trust and government regulartory issues, CO does not codeshare with KL, DL, AF on trans-atlantic nor it doesn't need any codeshares because basically CO flies to everywhere.

Problem with European codeshare is that with the 2006 expansion by DL and CO, plus NW, AF, KL, AZ, they're pretty much dominating the trans-atlantic route across Europe, unlike Star's penetration on hub-to-hub flights. And these airlines won't pretty much just get settled on codeshare only, they want revenue sharing as well.

This is not entirely true. CO & AF (and KL/DL) doesn't code-share on tansatlantic flights for the reason you gave (anti trust issues). However, they do code-share on flights beyond their respective hubs. By example, you will find AF code on CO domestic flights from IAH (e.g. Albuquerque) and CO code on AF domestic & european flights from CDG.
CO (or any US airlines) doesn't fly everywhere and they will always need code-share agreements to serve all the "secondary cities" they will never serve with their own metal
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4442
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:26 am

CO codeshares on trans-Pacific flights with BR and KE, but that is because CO lacks non-stops to those countries.

They also codeshare (or is it still a block sale of seats?) with VS on LHR flights.

There may be other examples; but, as Goldorak said, they mostly limit codesharing to beyond hub flights. Why not? They don't usually (VS is the exception) make any money when the passenger is on the other fellow's plane.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:28 am

Copa Joining SkyTeam (by TACAA320 Feb 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5040
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:01 am

NW and CO have been partners for a long long time now.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:44 am

CO does have a ton of code-shares with Delta...seems like nearly every DL flight I'm on through ATL has a CO code on it (normally these flights carry a CO, AM and KE code in addition to the DL one).
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 2):
CO & AF (and KL/DL) doesn't code-share on tansatlantic flights for the reason you gave (anti trust issues). However, they do code-share on flights beyond their respective hubs

That's because there wasn't any green light given to CO to codeshare with AF, DL, KL on trans-atlantic flight. Perhaps they already aware with the size of CO and DL Trans-atlantic coverage, an attempt to codeshare on Trans-atlantic flight will be shot down easily.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:17 pm

It's my understanding that continental.com is pretty tough about pointing the user only to CO-operated flights, or else multi-segment itineraries with at least part of the trip on CO metal.

For example, the website won't sell you ATL-EWR-ATL on DL metal (even though there's a codeshare). But, if you search for, say, ATL-CDG, it will allow you to purchase itineraries with ATL-EWR on a DL-operated, CO-coded flight and then the CO metal to CDG.

I suppose this revenue protection is one of many smart, if slightly annoying, steps CO has taken to keep afloat.

[Edited 2007-02-03 04:25:52]
 
st530
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:22 am

I don't understand why they don't codeshare with NW out of NRT to places in East Asia where CO doesn't fly, such as BKK and PVG.
 
bnatraveler
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:44 am

CO codeshares with NW on a number of ex-NRT flights.

For example:

CO*(NW)5027 NRT-BKK
CO*(NW)5875 NRT-SIN

I don't see any codeshares to PVG, perhaps that's to make sure that they don't run afoul of their own argument about why UA and NW shouldn't be awarded any more flights to China and to support their own case for EWR-PVG.

[Edited 2007-02-03 21:54:08]
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:16 pm

Ahh, I did not realize that anti-trust was an issue. However, DL and AF still code share on all of the CDG-US flights.

The CO web site must be pretty good at pointing to only CO flights. I tried to book a LHR-LYS trip through CO to make earning mileage easier (either on KL via AMS or AF via CDG), but the CO web site gave me some ridiculous itinerary connecting in Newark and THEN Amsterdam: LGW-EWR-AMS-LYS! Needless to say, I booked the trip on KLM.com.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting Cba (Reply 11):
Ahh, I did not realize that anti-trust was an issue. However, DL and AF still code share on all of the CDG-US flights

AF/DL and KL/NW have both antitrust immunity (and it was the case already before AF/KL merger), so they can code-share but also coordinates schedules and fares and I think even share revenues (for KL/NW). But anti trust issues appeared when KL, CO and NW joined skyteam when AF wanted to code-share with CO and NW in addition to DL, and when KL wanted to code-share with CO and DL. Until these issues are resolved, the previous agreements (AF/DL + KL/NW) remain in force and AF & CO are only allowed to code-share beyond their respective hubs, but not on routes between hubs. It's the same for KL and DL. A solution seemed to have been found with the US authorities for AF & NW as they are now code-sharing between CDG and DTW
 
atnight
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:06 am

RE: Continental & Skyteam: Why So Few Codeshares?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:35 am

CO does codeshare with KL in almost all their routes from AMS to Africa, also with AZ and AF they codeshare a lot to the smaller cities in Europe that go beyond the hubs or destinatiosn CO flies... Honestly, CO codeshares enough with its partners IMHO.... I think CO is happier now with Skyteam than when first joined....
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