PanAm747
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New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:15 pm

It seems to be great news for Lindbergh Field recently...WestJet is returning again with its seasonal service, Air Tran is coming May 24th, and now Express Jet will be starting up.

I am absolutely thrilled that there might actually be a non-stop flight from San Diego where I live to Bakersfield where my family is - Amtrak has been very hard to get tickets for recently, and driving through L.A. is, well...what we all know it to be. Even if it expensive, what a great option!!

My question is this - gate space at SAN can be at a premium. Where are these airlines going to find gates? Will they be sharing with other airlines? Maybe Express Jet will be operating from the Commuter terminal?
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Trvlr
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:35 pm

WestJet is coming back to SAN? First I've heard of it, but great news nonetheless. Where did you find this out?

Anyway, while it might seem logical for ExpressJet to try for the commuter terminal, I recall there being some sort of perimeter rule associated with the facility. Now, since I don't know the specifics--or, indeed, whether it is still in effect--I couldn't tell you how this might affect XJT's ops.

But, at any rate, apart from the Commuter Terminal I really don't see anywhere else ExpressJet can go. They're going to serve nine destinations from SAN, supposedly; that kind of schedule would easily take up an entire mainline gate at Lindbergh, and right now that's something the airport just doesn't have.

Aaron G.
 
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lindy field
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:56 pm

I just looked up Express Jet's schedule from SAN on the flight planner on the offical SAN site. They're planning on running two daily flights on each of their routes for a total of 18 daily departures spread throughout the day. I can't really think of anywhere they could get gate space other than the commuter terminal.

I'd also like to know the source of info about Westjet's return. I had a quick look at their website and did not see anything about their return to San Diego.

Cheers,

Edward
 
nicksair
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:07 pm

Hey guys.. not usual for me to chime in on the SAN threads.. even when i'm a local.  Smile Anyways, AirTran will be either in Terminal 1 or 2E according to my sources. While ExpressJet will most likely take the commuter terminal since they will be doing some intra-California flying. Although when i went out on AA Eagle last Saturday.. the place was a ZOO! So i dont know how they could possibly fit in there. If they cant.. they can take some space from Terminal 1 since Frontier and Midwest moved back over to T2. If Xjet decides to take some space in T1.. Gate 19 would be a perfect choice since Alaska uses it pretty much for their morning SFO flight and when it comes back in during the evening. About the WestJet service.. i havent heard a single thing on it.. so PanAm.. check your source. If its the real deal.. im glad that they are giving San Diego another try. Anyways.. time to crawl back into my hole.  Wink
Nick "NW"  Smile
Nicholas William Reed KSAN/KLAX/KSFO
 
Trvlr
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:29 am

The schedules are in OAG already--and they say XJT will indeed be using the Commuter Terminal.

Still...18 flights a day? That's gonna make the place one tight squeeze.

Aaron G.
 
san747
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:34 am

I hope the WestJet news is true... SAN is already on a roll for 2007 with Western, AirTran, and Expressjet...

...Who knows? Maybe PR will make the announcement of SAN service sometime in the near future?
Scotty doesn't know...
 
SANFan
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:22 am

I've brought up this SAN gate question in earlier posts (when these new services were announced) and didn't get any discussion. Just yesterday on the "XJET.com Up and Running" thread, I posted:

Quote:
Finally, I continue to wonder where XE will end up at Lindbergh. Gate 19 is my first thought but that will kind of depend on how many a/c at a time SAN might see. With 9 destinations (eventually) that could mean around 20-25 flights per day and I don't know how many 145s can be served in that limited (gate 19) area. I wonder what the possibility is that they might end up in the Commuter Terminal?

If the CT is correct, it will be crowded but I would assume XE's operation will be independent (no inter-lining or OA agreements?) so it makes sense. The ticketing lobby at the CT never seemed crowded to me (nor the gate area either for that matter) but I'm sure there are times... (like Nick said.)

I have noticed and been puzzled that SAN.org has not yet acknowledged FLs arrival at Lindbergh (nor have they Western's but that might be more understandable.) Therefore there has been no disclosure as to where their location will be. My guess is T2-East, out at the end maybe; that seems to be the only "available" gate real estate.

WestJet is a real surprise -- welcomed but surprising. I anxiously await some official announcement on that. Same frequency? Maybe permanent this time? (You can't tell me YYC-SAN shouldn't be a year-round market!)

BTW, where does Western do their Lindbergh thing? Anybody know where they sneak in twice a week?

As we've all been saying for a while now  Wink the gate crunch at SAN is getting very serious. I bet the Authority folks are having lots of nightmares lately when thinking about VX, PR, and maybe MX and NK and ???? announcing their formal intentions here soon! And with the 787 flying next year, who knows what exciting new service might be proposed. Sure wish we had those 10 new gates ready to go this Summer...

Gonna' be an exciting (and crowded) Summer at the airport in America's Finest this year!

bb
 
PanAm747
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:47 am

http://www.san.org/airport/flights/airlines.asp

WestJet is listed here as "seasonal". Now whether it's coming back or not, I don't know. It is not inconceivable to think that the official government website might not be the most up-to-date source of information...

Western was the other airline I failed to mention. But is it really flying? And for how long?

My line of thinking was the Commuter Terminal for ExpressJet as well...but I guess time will tell!
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hawaiian717
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
BTW, where does Western do their Lindbergh thing? Anybody know where they sneak in twice a week?

If I heard them correctly on the ground frequency last weekend, they went into gate 22. They're not on the signs on Harbor Dr.

I think there's room in the Commuter Terminal for ExpressJet. Remember that Delta Connection (SkyWest) and US Airways Express (Trans States) also used to go in there back when they both had LAX hubs. There's not a lot of room though, so I think it will work best if things are pretty evenly spread throughout the day. If everyone is trying to come or go at the same time, it could get messy.
 
SANFan
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
WestJet is listed here as "seasonal". Now whether it's coming back or not, I don't know.

Ahhh. If that's your source, PanAm', I'm not very optimistic. I know that last summer, WS still showed on the Airport's Air Traffic Reports, with all "0"s of course, even though they didn't serve Lindbergh after October of '05. Maybe wishful thinking on their part? (And of course, you're right about "up to date source"...) As I said in my previous post, SAN.org has not even added FL's SAN announcement to their news page yet!

(I have asked for any news on the WS subject on the "WestJet New Routes..." thread. Maybe we'll hear something there.)

bb
 
Bicoastal
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Nicksair (Reply 3):
they can take some space from Terminal 1 since Frontier and Midwest moved back over to T2. If Xjet decides to take some space in T1.. Gate 19 would be a perfect choice since Alaska uses it pretty much for their morning SFO flight and when it comes back in during the evening. About the WestJet service.

Frontier/Midwest moved out of Gate 18 because Alaska has the rights to it and wanted it back. Alaska's use of Gate 19 was only temporarily allowed by the airport and the TSA. The two agencies do not want passenger boarding from anything but jetways....except at the Commuter Terminal....and Alaska needed special permission for the temporary use of 19. Now that Alaska has 18 back, they don't want/need 19. Don't expect to see 19 used for anything but overnight parking.
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COEWRNJ
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
Western was the other airline I failed to mention.

Who or what is Western Airlines? I've never heard of them. Where do they fly to from SAN?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting COEWRNJ (Reply 11):
Who or what is Western Airlines? I've never heard of them. Where do they fly to from SAN?

There have been several threads about Western in the last few months.

It is a scheduled charter carrier out of BLI operating to IWA, SAN and ONT.

http://www.iflywestern.com
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EIPremier
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
Frontier/Midwest moved out of Gate 18 because Alaska has the rights to it and wanted it back. Alaska's use of Gate 19 was only temporarily allowed by the airport and the TSA. The two agencies do not want passenger boarding from anything but jetways....except at the Commuter Terminal....and Alaska needed special permission for the temporary use of 19. Now that Alaska has 18 back, they don't want/need 19. Don't expect to see 19 used for anything but overnight parking.

Yep, Alaska is now using 16-18 in Terminal 1 as of Jan 1, and that's three gates for 16 departures on weekdays. Otherwise it's just United in 11-15 and the Air Canada ERJ-190 to YYZ and CRJ-900 to YVR (btw I think it's awesome that they using a ERJ-190, although it does seem like san-yvz is stretching the range a bit for a non-LR version). Anyway, the UA/AS gates are still not all that heavily utilized during the midday and afternoon hours, but they are pretty much full through about 10 AM and also late evening, especially with the new 8 Pm Horizon SAN-PDX flight. So, I could see Air Tran fitting into Terminal 1 West, although Expressjet clearly wouldn't. The Commuter Terminal doesn't sound like a great fit either, given the limited ticket counter space and boarding area space, but there really isn't room anywhere else.

About gate 19, I deplaned through there once a few weeks ago. The nice thing is it's right next to the AS ticket counter, but otherwise it's undesirable because parking at the gate requires some awkward manuvering by the crew, and I'm sure TSA doesn't like staffing a checkpoint for just one flight.

[Edited 2007-02-05 02:57:41]
 
Coronado990
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
My line of thinking was the Commuter Terminal for ExpressJet as well...but I guess time will tell!

This could perhaps explain the low O&D routes from San Diego; SAN-BFL, SAN-FAT and SAN-MRY. I have a feeling the airport authority said XE could use the Commuter Terminal...despite the perimeter rule...as long as they provide non-stops to under served intra-state California markets from SAN.

I have read somewhere that the low O&D numbers between towns such as SAN and BFL, FAT or MRY in the DOT Domestic Fares tables can be explained by the fact that only AA Eagle flights show up, neglecting UA Express flights altogether, which carry the bulk of passengers through their LAX hub. I have always wondered if this is true and if it is, why UA Express does not submit their O&D numbers.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
PanAm747
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:29 am

Quote:
I have read somewhere that the low O&D numbers between towns such as SAN and BFL, FAT or MRY in the DOT Domestic Fares tables can be explained by the fact that only AA Eagle flights show up, neglecting UA Express flights altogether, which carry the bulk of passengers through their LAX hub. I have always wondered if this is true and if it is, why UA Express does not submit their O&D numbers.

UA Express would have to be submitting their numbers - American Eagle hasn't flown into BFL in nearly a decade.

btw, what is the perimeter rule for the Commuter Terminal? If it's only intra-California routes allowed, ExpressJet is going to have a tough time with that one - they have a lot of out of state routes showing.
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FATFlyer
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 14):
I have read somewhere that the low O&D numbers between towns such as SAN and BFL, FAT or MRY in the DOT Domestic Fares tables can be explained by the fact that only AA Eagle flights show up, neglecting UA Express flights altogether, which carry the bulk of passengers through their LAX hub. I have always wondered if this is true and if it is, why UA Express does not submit their O&D numbers.

That used to be true. I think it was a couple of years ago that all airlines were required to start submitting their info.

Current info is up to date but it would make it hard to compare historical data.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Bicoastal
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 13):
Anyway, the UA/AS gates are still not all that heavily utilized during the midday and afternoon hours, but they are pretty much full through about 10 AM and also late evening

United's gates are heavily utilized, including its ground handling of Air Canada, through 1:30 pm. There might be a 3 or 4 hour window before the last westbound flights from IAD, Chicago and Denver start arriving after 5 pm for the overnights and tows off their gates. No airline as large as United is at SAN is going to want have their gates used even for one or two flights by another airline, should they need them for irregular operations, ground delays (frequent for flights to United's hubs in SFO and ORD). I've personally experienced waiting at United's gates in SAN waiting for ATC delays to be lifted elsewhere. Meanwhile United flights came and went at other gates. From what I've observed, Alaska's gates have down time but they want to build their schedule over the next few years.

There's definately downtime at SAN gates after 1:30, but that's the worst time for departures to anything east of the Mississippi because the flights arrive too late for connections. Airlines all want gates during the prime hours.
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Coronado990
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
btw, what is the perimeter rule for the Commuter Terminal?

I believe it is 500 miles.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
Current info is up to date but it would make it hard to compare historical data.

Thank you.
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nicksair
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
Frontier/Midwest moved out of Gate 18 because Alaska has the rights to it and wanted it back. Alaska's use of Gate 19 was only temporarily allowed by the airport and the TSA. The two agencies do not want passenger boarding from anything but jetways....except at the Commuter Terminal....and Alaska needed special permission for the temporary use of 19. Now that Alaska has 18 back, they don't want/need 19. Don't expect to see 19 used for anything but overnight parking.

Thats pretty much what i was saying.. the inbound flight from SFO RON's then goes back up there the next morning.  Smile
Nick
Nicholas William Reed KSAN/KLAX/KSFO
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
Frontier/Midwest moved out of Gate 18 because Alaska has the rights to it and wanted it back. Alaska's use of Gate 19 was only temporarily allowed by the airport and the TSA. The two agencies do not want passenger boarding from anything but jetways....except at the Commuter Terminal....and Alaska needed special permission for the temporary use of 19. Now that Alaska has 18 back, they don't want/need 19. Don't expect to see 19 used for anything but overnight parking.



Quoting Nicksair (Reply 19):

Oh really? It was cool that F9 and YX used 18 because the same company that does ramp for AS does F9 and YX. (I think they still do).

"Gate" 19 isn't the first choice I would pick to park. When I worked at SAN in 05 before the US/HP merge we would park our RON US a/c at 19. Or if there were no wheelchair/special needs pax we could have the pax de-plane at 19 with air-stairs. Let me tell you it sucks to marshal an A321 into 19. Good God. Then we had to avoid UA (they were using 18 back then) when we towed the US plane from 19 to 15 or vice-versa.

I need to get my SAN info updated. Crap.

The commuter terminal is nice. Especially all of the Administrative offices upstairs. Great views of SAN. Anyway ExpressJet will have to share the bagroom if they operate from the commuter terminal with UA and AA express.

Great to see new Airlines coming to SAN. And good to talk to you SAN interested A.net folks as well 

Dave

[Edited 2007-02-05 07:55:10]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
SANFan
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 20):
"Gate" 19 isn't the first choice I would pick to park.

How ya doin' Dave? Always good to hear from you.

And besides, WHEN Int'l Heavy's (like PR's?) start visiting SAN regularly, and using gate 20/21, it will be virtually impossible to get anything in or out of 19! Big grin

I have finally begun to accept the fact that some valuable real estate on the tarmac (e.g. gate 19) is just wasted concrete now and is essentially expensive storage.

bb
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
How ya doin' Dave? Always good to hear from you.

Hey Bob, thank you my friend, good to hear from you as well. Things are going pretty well down here. Today was tough with the Superbowl and the Chargers not being in it, wahhh. haha. How are things up in SEA? Hope all is well Big grin. Anytime you're heading for SAN let me know.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
And besides, WHEN Int'l Heavy's (like PR's?) start visiting SAN regularly, and using gate 20/21, it will be virtually impossible to get anything in or out of 19!

 laughing , very true.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
I have finally begun to accept the fact that some valuable real estate on the tarmac (e.g. gate 19) is just wasted concrete now and is essentially expensive storage.

 checkmark  Really too bad. Hopefully that will change with the upgrades to SAN. Is that still happening? Maybe some NIMBY's heard about it and complained, haha.

All the best,

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
Bicoastal
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Nicksair (Reply 19):
Thats pretty much what i was saying.. the inbound flight from SFO RON's then goes back up there the next morning

But they don't deplane or board from 19. The plane is towed to 16, 17, or 18 for boarding.
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COERJ145
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting Nicksair (Reply 3):
Although when i went out on AA Eagle last Saturday.. the place was a ZOO! So i dont know how they could possibly fit in there

UA only uses one gate at a time, AA uses up to two, there are 4 gates at the commuter terminal. I'd assume one gate would be an All ExpressJet or one shared with UA.
 
nicksair
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 23):
But they don't deplane or board from 19. The plane is towed to 16, 17, or 18 for boarding.

Oh but they do.. i got off at 19 on January 27th on Alaska 360 from SFO. While back in November 11th i boarded from 19 on Alaska 599. But you are right.. looks like theyve moved out of 19.. who knows.. for one.. i liked it since i could just walk off.. and out to my mom waiting on the other side and i can get home fast.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 24):
UA only uses one gate at a time, AA uses up to two, there are 4 gates at the commuter terminal. I'd assume one gate would be an All ExpressJet or one shared with UA.

Exactly.. but im talking about how crowded it was past security.. mind you my flight was 2 hrs late.. and most of the OO/UA flights were overbooked.. they had to bus people to LA. Thats not the first time i've seen that.. but its been a long time since i saw it..

Nick "NW"  Smile
Nicholas William Reed KSAN/KLAX/KSFO
 
SANFan
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Nicksair (Reply 25):
Oh but they do.. i got off at 19 on January 27th on Alaska 360 from SFO.

As back-up to your statement Nick, the flight arr/dep status display on the SAN.org website almost always shows AS flight 360 (~9:30PM arrival) using gate 19. (I usually don't see the early morning departures listed so I can't verify those flights' gates.) I realize it is not the most reliable source of information but it seems pretty up-to-date for other AS data...

bb
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
The two agencies do not want passenger boarding from anything but jetways...

Patently false. 19 blocks 20, this is the only reason. The TSA has zero input on which gates will and will not be used. They do not regulate use of a facility. Have no idea whose butt you pulled that out of. Do the world a favor, don't make up things. You look foolish.

Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter):
My question is this - gate space at SAN can be at a premium. Where are these airlines going to find gates? Will they be sharing with other airlines? Maybe Express Jet will be operating from the Commuter terminal?

Need a real source? I made a phone call:

Horizon is already opping at 18 to PDX, but 19 is available as overflow for delays etc.

19 is an RON for Aloha.

Express Jet will be at the commuter on three spots north of SkyWest.

Western doesn't have an official home yet.

AirTran is unknown right now.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
btw, what is the perimeter rule for the Commuter Terminal? If it's only intra-California routes allowed, ExpressJet is going to have a tough time with that one - they have a lot of out of state routes showing.

There isn't a preimeter rule for the commuter. Its a simple agreement to get the commuters out of the main gates as much as possible between the Airport, Eagle and SkyWest. Mesa and Horizon do not participate.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 17):
United's gates are heavily utilized, including its ground handling of Air Canada, through 1:30 pm. There might be a 3 or 4 hour window before the last westbound flights from IAD, Chicago and Denver start arriving after 5 pm for the overnights and tows off their gates. No airline as large as United is at SAN is going to want have their gates used even for one or two flights by another airline, should they need them for irregular operations, ground delays (frequent for flights to United's hubs in SFO and ORD). I've personally experienced waiting at United's gates in SAN waiting for ATC delays to be lifted elsewhere.

Just an observation...United rarely uses gate 11, if at all, throughout the day. Seems it is only used for a RON right now.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
I have finally begun to accept the fact that some valuable real estate on the tarmac (e.g. gate 19) is just wasted concrete now and is essentially expensive storage.

Well, don't give up just yet...WN will bring gate 3 out of "retirement" and start using it for a few flights in the middle of the day starting in March.  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting Nicksair (Reply 25):
Oh but they do.. i got off at 19 on January 27th on Alaska 360 from SFO. While back in November 11th i boarded from 19 on Alaska 599.

I stand corrected on the late arrival deplaning. It's the only one during the day. November 11th was during the time Alaska had special airport and TSA permission to board at 19. Once Frontier moved out of 18, Alaska can no longer use 19 for boarding.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 28):
Just an observation...United rarely uses gate 11, if at all, throughout the day. Seems it is only used for a RON right now

At least 3 flights during the day 11 is used by United....during the 6:00 to 2:00 pm busy period. As I said earlier, any airline as large as United at SAN and as subject to ATC delays as they are to SFO and ORD, they need the flexibility for irregular operations. Recently United borrowed gates 16 and 18 from Alaska for an hour or two because all of UA's gates were occupied for whatever reason. Lucky it was during a lull in Alaska's schedule. After American's bad PR recently for holding passengers hostage on a tarmac, United isn't going to take the chance of making its customers wait for ever on a plane at remote parking waiting for fog to lift at SFO, snow and wind to stop in Chicago or a blizzard to abate in Denver.

And strictly for competitive reasons, why should United let another airline use one of its gates on a scheduled basis?

[Edited 2007-02-06 00:17:39]
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SANFan
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:01 am

As I just posted on another thread (XJET.com Up and Running) it's impressive to see the full 18-flight turn schedule for XE after June 4 with 3 RON. It does look like 3 gates at the CT will handle the load nicely. Thanx for verifying that fact '7E7.

Silver', I had discovered that in fact my suspicion of gate 3 sitting empty just about all the time (except for overflow, delays and the one RON) was correct (and still very disturbing); I am thrilled to hear you say that it will finally be used more regularly. I know (from my turn schedule and gate use research) that WN using, in reality, 9 gates was putting some gates' usage at an amazing 11 flights per day! As WN edges closer to the magic 100 (95 flights starting 3/11 with the new RNO service and a 5th MDW flight) I couldn't picture them ignoring gate 3 much longer. It is nice to think that they could go to maybe 115 flights? without needing any more gates 'cause I don't know where they will get any more in the near future... Thanx for your input.

bb
 
SANFan
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RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:46 am

In fact, Silver', it looks like as we speak, gate 3 is getting a workout!

From SAN.org's "Flight Information" page: (gate # follows city)

WN 1933 Departure Las Vegas 3 8:15:00 PM 8:15:00 PM On Time
WN 1604 Departure Albuquerque 3 7:20:00 PM 7:20:00 PM On Time
WN 1604 Arrival Sacramento 3 6:55:00 PM 6:48:00 PM
WN 1975 Arrival Sacramento 3 7:50:00 PM 7:38:00 PM
WN 1999 Arrival San Jose/Reno 3 10:50:00 PM 10:50:00 PM On Time
WN 2860 Arrival Las Vegas 3 8:50:00 PM 9:10:00 PM Delayed
WN 2411 Departure Las Vegas 3 9:10:00 PM 9:30:00 PM Delayed

(Guess they want to make sure the jetway still works.  Wink )

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Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 29):
At least 3 flights during the day 11 is used by United....

First of all, I stated that it was just an observation. I have no actual numbers. All I know is, I work at gate 10 three times a week (actually yesterday I worked a full 16-hour double at gate 10) and I have noticed the problem of getting jet blasted out there as a United aircraft pulls into 11 hasn't been happening much lately. I finally took notice the other day and realized use of 11 has decreased.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 29):
And strictly for competitive reasons, why should United let another airline use one of its gates on a scheduled basis?

I don't know, I was just throwing it out there that maybe something was up with gate 11 because United has decreased the number of flights at that gate recently.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
In fact, Silver', it looks like as we speak, gate 3 is getting a workout!

Yeah, when it is slow like it is right now, gates 1 and 2 are shut down and the flights are moved to 3.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
PanAm747
Topic Author
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:16 pm

Well, ExpressJet has its website up and running complete with prices...roundtrip SAN-BFL is running $149...I'm impressed!! And I will be flying it a lot considering the cost of gas and the amount of time it takes to drive up and back - especially if L.A. has unavoidable traffic!!

I called ExpressJet and found out their start date (scheduled) out of SAN is May 16th...but no one had any idea of what gate(s) they will be using. I mentioned airliners.net and how we were thinking it might probably be the commuter terminal. The woman I spoke to seemed to think that was what they wanted.

I guess it's wait and see!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
SANFan
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:27 pm

Hey '747, gate usage was confirmed earlier by Boeing7E7:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 27):
Express Jet will be at the commuter on three spots north of SkyWest.

Start dates in SAN, according to the link below to the XE website, are progressive starting with 2 routes on May 7:
http://www.xjet.com/why_xjet/destinations.htm
(Seems to be verified with the booking engine.)

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the full 18-flight schedule will be operating starting June 4 (with 2x daily on each SAN route.)

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SANFan
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:24 pm

After completing and studying SAN turn schedules (for the 4 start dates) I noticed a few things which I (but probably nobody else will) find mildly interesting. (But hey it's 3 AM and "African Queen" is ending!) As of the June 4 (final start-up) schedule, with 18 flights in and out (2x in each market):

> All SAN flight numbers are in the 400s. (I haven't studied all other markets but I noticed OKC flights are in the 20s, 100s, 200s, 300s.)
> Average SAN ground (turn) time seems to be about 35 minutes [:26 to :42] except for one mid-day GEG turn-around of 1:19. (Seems slightly long when compared to WN and their average 25 minutes in SAN with almost 3x the passengers and baggage to deal with.)
>There are 3 RON.
>All flights originate/terminate in SAN, i.e., there are no thru flights. Nor do any SAN flights continue beyond the n/s segment. (This could happen later when some of the TBA stations, e.g., RDU, MSY, SDF, come on line.)
>There do seem to be direct, 1-stop flights in some markets such as CRP-ONT, ONT-TUL.
>Minor point but for a purist like myself... there is no odd/even convention or directionality to flight numbering, e.g. one SAN-OKC flight is #409, the other is 414.
>Flights do not yet appear in Amadeus.

Sorry if this seems way off-topic but I thought this thread (as opposed to the other 17 re: XE) would have more SAN-ophiles who MIGHT find some of this interesting. I apologize if I'm wrong.

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Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:58 am

This post is factualy inaccurate:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 29):
Alaska had special airport and TSA permission to board at 19. Once Frontier moved out of 18, Alaska can no longer use 19 for boarding.

As is this post:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 29):
Recently United borrowed gates 16 and 18 from Alaska for an hour or two because all of UA's gates were occupied for whatever reason.
 
Coronado990
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 35):
All flights originate/terminate in SAN, i.e., there are no thru flights. Nor do any SAN flights continue beyond the n/s segment

Hey SANFan,

When I tore up the schedule, I noticed that one aircraft does this...

SAN....6:25a
COS....9:36a

COS...10:10a
SAN...11:33a
SAN...12:00n
BFL....1:00p

BFL....1:45p
SAN...2:44p
SAN...3:10p
COS...6:21p

COS....6:55p
SMF....8:28p

So it looks like BFL has direct COS service both ways but I do not see it listed as a thru flight. Hmmmm. Thats maybe 2 people a day right there that could help fill the BFL flight.  eek 
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:55 am

Damm, I must have been in the navy too long. I honestly thought the topic was sentence was wrong. I thought it should have been, "New Carriers to SAN --- What Piers?"  rotfl 
 
SANFan
Posts: 3688
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: New Carriers To SAN - What Gates?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 37):
So it looks like BFL has direct COS service both ways but I do not see it listed as a thru flight.

Yes, Coronado. I saw connecting opportunities as well and I don't understand why XE wouldn't run at least some as thru-flights. Their booking engine doesn't seem to be programmed for connections (yet?) but the examples you mentioned probably wouldn't appear as connections anyway -- too short a ground time. But of course the flights are the same a/c so a mis-connect would be impossible... (Natural solution: just make it a thru flight.)

As I mentioned, XE does have some direct, 1-stop flights showing in certain markets. I kind of expect they will leave the sked's alone for a few months (thru the summer?) before they get to serious tweaking of which I'm sure there will be plenty!

By the way Coronado, have you found a timetable anywhere for XE? It's sure tedious having to tease all this info out of the booking engine isn't it? Sounds like you're about ready to publish a timetable yourself!

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