MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:24 am

Delta Connection will be pulling the plug on three more Orlando regional routes. Service to Austin and Dallas will end on 16 April 2007, while service to Asheville, North Carolina, which was recently cut to Saturday only, will terminate 27 April 2007.
a.
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:02 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:29 am

Is this seasonal or permanent?
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Delta Connection will be pulling the plug on three more Orlando regional routes. Service to Austin and Dallas will end on 16 April 2007, while service to Asheville, North Carolina, which was recently cut to Saturday only, will terminate 27 April 2007.

CRJ service to such domestic routes is going to have a very limited yield if any, especially with WN doing so many routes into MCO. I think DL should look at the following strategy from MCO to really get back what they once had at that airport:
1. Have good mainline flights 2x-3x per day on 752s or greater to all of the major DL hubs; ATL, JFK, CVG, SLC and perhaps LAX.
2. Additionally offer mainline flights on 738s or greater to their significant focus cities: DCA, LGA, BOS & FLL (TPA is too close for such to be profitable).
3. If more capacity is needed beyond ATL and/or NYC-JFK, offer some seasonal service to a few Caribbean destinations on CRJ-7/9s or EMB-170/175s for starters such as NAS, STX, STT and maybe SXM.
Yes, DL is going to have to step out of the box to offer something at MCO, but CRJ flights to the above locations can no longer carry them.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
S5FA170
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
CRJ service to such domestic routes is going to have a very limited yield if any,

Flights to/from AUS and DFW were recently being operated on the Embraer 170. I worked them for a full-month, straight, and we always averaged about 45-55 passengers with first class wide open.
Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting S5FA170 (Reply 3):
with first class wide open.

That usually drops the yield pretty quickly. Then the gate agents have to have a $50-$75 fire sale. I love them, but they don't help things out on the financial bottom line. 45-55 is enough people though to make some money on the flight in an EMB-170.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
S5FA170
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 4):
45-55 is enough people though to make some money on the flight in an EMB-170.

When Shuttle America first started flying for Delta, I'd heard that it takes at least 39 people for Delta to make money on a -170 flight. I have no idea what the breakdown is of First Class/Coach seats in that 39. I also know that that number is highly dependent on the average fare being charged per flight, but it does give an idea somewhat of the kind of money they make/lose per segment.
Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting S5FA170 (Reply 5):
When Shuttle America first started flying for Delta, I'd heard that it takes at least 39 people for Delta to make money on a -170 flight. I have no idea what the breakdown is of First Class/Coach seats in that 39. I also know that that number is highly dependent on the average fare being charged per flight, but it does give an idea somewhat of the kind of money they make/lose per segment.

It's roughly 51% of capacity is what the Embraer site says. But then again it all depends on what fare they are charging and what they are able to attract. As I pointed out, the real profit is what they can get a 1st class passenger to pay.
http://www.embraercommercialjets.com...t/ejets/default.asp?tela=economics
There are 6 1st Class seats in a Shuttle America EMB-170 on delta Connection: http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...raft_types_layout/erj170/index.jsp
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:21 am

Well, DL is stuck in the glory days in terms of service at MCO. The kind of thinking that flying a morbidly expensive CRJ on a route with competing FL 717s and WN 737s and make a profit isn't taking them anywhere.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
EMB-170/175s for starters such as NAS

Umm, Freedom runs between 2-5 daily ERJs on the route already.

Cheers
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:48 am

A CRJ flying a point to point route from Florida can generate more revenue than a CRJ assigned to fly connecting traffic via a hub. The revenue is divided by every flight a passenger gets on with the same fare so a nonstop flight even to a leisure destination can generate more revenue than a connection with moderate level business class fares.

DL is rationalizing its RJ fleet during bankruptcy so some of that excess capacity is coming out. DL is also building up LAX and JFK RJ flying to support international flights. And Comair is not producing as much capacity as DL would like while the other operators for DL are tapped out.

DL knows this summer is very important in getting a solid base for itself after bankruptcy so their tolerance for money-losing routes is very low.

Statistics do show that Delta's regional jet program generates revenues at or above industry averages so DL is doing the right thing - and they obviously know what to do to make it even better. Delta still will be a significant player in all of these O&Ds by virtue of its strong ATL hub.
 
OOer
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:29 pm

Should DL perhaps go on the offensive at MCO? WN keeps adding flights left and right, while everyone else keeps cutting flights left and right. Time to put in some of those 738 in the shuttle livery on some point to point routes out of MCO? Perhaps the legacys should work together and help each other out against some of these LCCs?

Any thoughts?
 
akjetBlue
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:59 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
Time to put in some of those 738 in the shuttle livery on some point to point routes out of MCO?

I have always thought that either with the B733s (now gone) or the B738s to places like CMH PVD IAD BNA MSY BHM would ahve worked... many of the routes flown by Delta Express or Connection would work great. It seems though DL would rather have multiple freq with small aircraft rather than single or double freq with mainline equipment.

Does anyone know where these aircraft from these cxld routes will be relocated towards?
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 10):
many of the routes flown by Delta Express or Connection would work great. It seems though DL would rather have multiple freq with small aircraft rather than single or double freq with mainline equipment.

 checkmark  The lack of mainline equipment for the next couple of years will limit DL to just using OO or other network connection carriers.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
OOer
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:07 am

Doesnt DL have a bunch of 737s on order with boeing. When are they planning to take delivery of these aircrafts?

[Edited 2007-02-05 20:09:48]
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
Doesnt DL have a bunch of 737s on order with boeing. When are they planning to take delivery of these aircrafts?

50 738s, 48 of which will be sold upon delivery to a third party, with the last two coming in late 2009, and 10 73Gs, delivery starting from next year on. This year, DL will be starting to get their ex-TWA/AA 757s, 11 this year and 2 next year, IIRC, though they could well end up with the 6 other ones as well. That said, none of those planes is earmarked to fill the domestic gap, but rather to either replace 767s needed for international flying (e.g. 757s on SLC-OGG among others), or needed for international flying themselves (73Gs for routes too thin for 738s but where RJs lack cargo).
 
akjetBlue
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:59 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
The lack of mainline equipment for the next couple of years will limit DL to just using OO or other network connection carriers.

Didn't DL excersize options on some extra B738s and B772s?
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5272
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:07 am

It's more than just an airplane availability issue. Even if DL had the mainline planes to use in MCO, I wouldn't count on them actually using them there. DL's business model is changing and the days of focusing on the low-yield tourist trade are over. I wouldn't be surprised to see DL make additional cuts at MCO and give up additional marketshare to WN, B6 and FL. MCO just isn't as critical a part of DL anymore.
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:48 am

DL is just a shadow of its former self at MCO. During spring break and parts of summer, they'd fill up the majority of airside 4. Now, they hardly even fill up one wing of gates there...
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Ending MCO-DFW/AUS/AVL

Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 14):
Didn't DL excersize options on some extra B738s and B772s?

You won't start to see any new mainline aircraft until next year at the earliest for DL. All that will come this year are some used P&W powered 752s that were part of TWA's fleet once upon a time. DL will use these to serve SLC-Hawaii (OGG & KOA), as well as a few NYC-JFK to/from Europe flights where the 763ERs are over-kill.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A330NZ, alphonze, atypical, Bing [Bot], coolian2, Google [Bot], intotheair, lightsaber, mk2, Qatara340, SEQU, sirtoby, ThePointblank, thomasphoto60 and 257 guests