LAXdude1023
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Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:53 am

I was just wondering what people think about the future of UA at NRT. Recently they announced that they are stopping NRT-HKG. Will we see more of the NRT hub dismantled? Or is this just a one time thing?
It is what it is...
 
roseflyer
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:58 am

I think NRT will be less of a hub and more of a destination point. Connecting traffic is lower yielding, especially when UA can fly everyone through SFO or ORD.

Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT. I don't deny the possibility that SEA has more O/D to Japan, but NW already flies the route. DEN is missing an international link and is the second largest hub for UA. United is just an O/D airport with only 2 other non US hub routes (ANC and HNL) in addition to the United Express flights. But with even less connections available in NRT, I guess the link to NRT from DEN is less vital. People can just stop in SFO.
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LAXintl
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:25 am

I dont believe you will see US-NRT routes dismantled however UA has for years not been trimming beyond Narita Asia routes.

It used to be China was served via NRT, now they are all nonstops from the US, while NRT-ICN has also seen a frequency reduction as SFO-ICN came on line.
Ultimately as mentioned UA will refocus the Narita operation more on local O&D demand and has been shifting to smaller equipment away from 747s on many NRT services.

Also according to recent UA investor conference, its not long before the carrier launches a deeper alliance with ANA much along the lines of the long established and quite successful Atlantic alliance with LH.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
IADLHR
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Also according to recent UA investor conference, its not long before the carrier launches a deeper alliance with ANA much along the lines of the long established and quite successful Atlantic alliance with LH.

That is something that I think is long overdue. However. for ANA and UA to cooperate much more or to be on the level of UA/LH wouldnt it require an openskies with Japan? That is soemthing that , so far, Japan has been unwilling to negotiate.
 
3201
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT.

They carry a lot of Boeing traffic out of SEA, and get nearly all the DEN-Asia traffic anyway without a nonstop.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:39 am

just to clarify...are these the routes United flies to from NRT to the U.S.?:

HNL
LAX
SFO
SEA
ORD
IAD

~B6FA4ever
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:53 am

UA would be foolish to quit flying the beyond NRT routes. Those routes - also held by NW- are the most valuable 5th freedom routes in the world. It doesn't matter if UA doesn't use NRT as a connecting hub. There is a local market and UA should figure out a way to capture the traffic - even if it is with 757s or A320s that are connecting with the US via a stop or two across the Pacific.
 
unitednrt
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:59 am

United executive management has a place for Narita as a focus hub, though equipment changes will come.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
flavio340
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:12 pm

I have asked this question before, is NRT any better than HKG? I think that HKG would be better than NRT for connecting and O&D traffic, why not sell NRT 5th freedom and focus on HKG where you do not have the domestic (NWA) competition, let someone else (AA) deal with NWA out of NRT.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:28 pm

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 8):
I have asked this question before, is NRT any better than HKG? I think that HKG would be better than NRT for connecting and O&D traffic, why not sell NRT 5th freedom and focus on HKG where you do not have the domestic (NWA) competition, let someone else (AA) deal with NWA out of NRT.

Whilst HKG would be seen by many to be a nicer airport than NRT, NRT's location makes it a far better connection point for North America - Asia traffic than HKG.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:13 pm

hmm.... I would think that UA would want to maintain the slots into NRT.... plus there is alot of traffic from the US to JP... close ties in the corporate world help that... plus doesn't UA have a crew base out there? I thought I remembered that they used NRT to originate the Asian crews to help mitigate cost...
Why do I fly???
 
centrair
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:18 pm

I think we will see UA trim more and maybe even see NW trim a little.

Japan as a stop off is no longer as important as it was even 10 years ago.

UA could turn NRT into a focus and use its Star partnership to feed onward passengers.

Japan is one of those countries where the 787's effect could change the face of long-haul travel. It would allow more carriers to do long-thin over flying Japan. It could also create increased demand for non-stop from Japannese airports other than NRT.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
CaptainTim
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:19 pm

United Airlines UA Cuts All HKG-NRT -April 28, 07 (by CaptainTim Jan 31 2007 in Civil Aviation)

BAw716 an airline analyst has a very good response on what he thinks of UA's future at NRT.. check it out

tim

i personally think that NRT will continue to be a hub for United just not as significant and major as before...
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:14 pm

My personal thought on the issue is that NRT-SIN/BKK will be untouched. These are routes that cannot be served nonstop from the US with UA's fleet. I would also like to see HKG-SGN moved to NRT-SGN, so that LAX, IAD, and SEA dont have to stop in SFO or ORD to make the connection in HKG. I think that we can see 320, 757, or 767 for the routes to TPE and ICN. I also think they should have HKG with a 757 or 767 (I know they are canceling it, but I think that would be a good move).
It is what it is...
 
United777atGU
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 8):
I have asked this question before, is NRT any better than HKG? I think that HKG would be better than NRT for connecting and O&D traffic, why not sell NRT 5th freedom and focus on HKG where you do not have the domestic (NWA) competition, let someone else (AA) deal with NWA out of NRT.



Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 9):
Whilst HKG would be seen by many to be a nicer airport than NRT, NRT's location makes it a far better connection point for North America - Asia traffic than HKG.

In addition, UA has NH at NRT whereas they have no one at HKG. In fact, they would be facing CX there--that's a no-no. It's not Star territory. AA would be smart to take advantage of HKG/CX. If UA did move Asian connections to HKG, CX would tell AA to get their butts over there stat. UA uses NRT well, and we love Asia, so NRT will be going nowhere anytime soon. What I think UA is doing is just trying to get the maximum utilization out of its fleet by pulling on some of its aircraft at NRT, trying to make more non-stop options for US Citizens/international travelers, and also open new routes to increase revenue and profitability. It's not a bad thing at all.

Maybe when we get some new planes they'll throw some 763s over the Pacific? Either way, the market share they have at NRT will keep UA there for some time to come.

I'd like to think that if they found more new/profitable routes that they would fly them and then maybe lease just a couple of the slots at NRT to make more money?? (provided that, in this scenario, they still do not have enough aircraft). So for example, if they started IAD-DXB and found it a beauty in terms of profitability, they get some planes from NRT, lease the 2 slots to somebody for a time until they get the new planes, and make them pay a pretty penny for them...

What do I know.

[Edited 2007-02-05 06:22:38]
Speechless
 
jimyvr
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:40 pm

UNITED says Tokyo will always be its primary hub despite some routes are bypassing Tokyo. This was mentione din November

ANA is offering 1-stop 2ndary cities to China on same day basis, and few other cities where other hubs, particularly Beijing and Shanghai are not possbie
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:06 pm

NRT will remain a major focus city for UA for years to come, as will LHR when open skies is agreed sometime in the next 10 years!!!
 
gemini573
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I think that we can see 320, 757, or 767 for the routes to TPE and ICN. I also think they should have HKG with a 757 or 767 (I know they are canceling it, but I think that would be a good move).

I highly doubt that will happen for UA. You would have to have a whole new set of crew who are trained to work or fly those birds.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering what people think about the future of UA at NRT.

I expect NRT will remain UA's Asian hub, but increasing non-stop service from the SFO, ORD and IAD hubs will reduce the number of intra-Asia cities served by NRT and/or the number of frequencies.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT. I

Because it's quite easy for DEN customers to fly to SEA to grab UA875 and to head to DEN after taking UA876 to SEA. Also, SEA-NRT does very well during baseball season thanks to charters and while loads are much lighter off-season, paid Business and First Class ticket sales are decent (even with Microsoft using NW) so the route is a good revenue generator for UA.
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I would also like to see HKG-SGN moved to NRT-SGN, so that LAX, IAD, and SEA dont have to stop in SFO or ORD to make the connection in HKG.

The U.S.-Vietnam bilateral agreement signed in 2003 does not allow U.S. carriers to carry local traffic between Japan and Vietnam. That is why they do it from Hong Kong.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/35898.pdf
 
SFORunner
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I would also like to see HKG-SGN moved to NRT-SGN, so that LAX, IAD, and SEA dont have to stop in SFO or ORD to make the connection in HKG.

Star Alliance partner NH flies NRT - SGN four days a week on a 763. With a 6pm-ish departure, the flight is well timed to meet in-bound UA flights from the USA.

It's hard to see UA succeeding with a potentially larger aircraft (777) and daily frequency if NH can't make it "work" - assuming aircraft availability is the primary factor restricting service to 4x weekly.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
DEN is missing an international link and is the second largest hub for UA.

Actually, DEN is 4th, behind ORD, SFO and IAD.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT.

As others have said, it is very easy for DEN passengers to fly to SEA, LAX, SFO or HNL to catch a flight to NRT. If UA were to operate a long international route out of DEN, it would be when they have 787s. FRA would probably be the first.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 19):
The U.S.-Vietnam bilateral agreement signed in 2003 does not allow U.S. carriers to carry local traffic between Japan and Vietnam. That is why they do it from Hong Kong.

Ok, cool. I didnt know that.

I do think if UA could codeshare with NH to the point where people can get 100% milage accural instead of 70% they could shut down NRT and let NH handle all of it if they wanted to.
It is what it is...
 
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Stitch
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
I do think if UA could codeshare with NH to the point where people can get 100% milage accural instead of 70% they could shut down NRT and let NH handle all of it if they wanted to.

Until UA SWUs and MUAs work on NH, that's not going to happen.  Smile

The Star Alliance Upgrade Awards are a start, but they're far inferior to UA Mileage Plus upgrades on UA metal.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 19):
The U.S.-Vietnam bilateral agreement signed in 2003 does not allow U.S. carriers to carry local traffic between Japan and Vietnam. That is why they do it from Hong Kong.

Ok, cool. I didnt know that.

I do think if UA could codeshare with NH to the point where people can get 100% milage accural instead of 70% they could shut down NRT and let NH handle all of it if they wanted to.
It is what it is...
 
Venezuela747
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT.
As others have said, it is very easy for DEN passengers to fly to SEA, LAX, SFO or HNL to catch a flight to NRT. If UA were to operate a long international route out of DEN, it would be when they have 787s. FRA would probably be the first.

It also seems that UA wants to keep DEN as a domestic only hub...or at least North America only
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hiflyer
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:49 am

Folks..a lot of this is due to there are only so many frames at UA right now....and the drumbeat is max utilization. However...take notice of the refi of the exit financing at UA announced today. They are setting up something...aircraft or airline...but something is cooking. Let alone 101 aircraft just became unencumbered but some of the restrictions in the orig refi package were removed as well....don't you just want to guess that one may be the no new aircraft order they have been hamstrung with?
 
gigneil
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
Actually, DEN is 4th, behind ORD, SFO and IAD.

What? No. Not even sort of man. DEN is UA's second largest hub by a very very wide margin.

You might be thinking of per passenger revenue, which is higher at those international gateways.

NS
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
You might be thinking of per passenger revenue, which is higher at those international gateways

Yes, I was thinking in terms of passenger revenue. My bad

[Edited 2007-02-06 02:34:01]
 
gigneil
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:13 am

I think United could do more to increase per pax revenue at DEN, but selfishly I am enjoying the buildup of service at Dulles.

NS
 
United777atGU
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 29):
I think United could do more to increase per pax revenue at DEN, but selfishly I am enjoying the buildup of service at Dulles.

NS

Don't you love it!!?? More to come, I hope...

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
Folks..a lot of this is due to there are only so many frames at UA right now....and the drumbeat is max utilization. However...take notice of the refi of the exit financing at UA announced today. They are setting up something...aircraft or airline...but something is cooking. Let alone 101 aircraft just became unencumbered but some of the restrictions in the orig refi package were removed as well....don't you just want to guess that one may be the no new aircraft order they have been hamstrung with?

Someone's putting the puzzle together...
Speechless
 
United767
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 29):
I think United could do more to increase per pax revenue at DEN, but selfishly I am enjoying the buildup of service at Dulles



Quoting United777atGU (Reply 30):
Don't you love it!!?? More to come, I hope...

 yes  I can't wait to see what UA does next at IAD!
I wish UA flew mainline to MYR, that way you wouldn't be stuck in a smelly Saturn for 12 hours.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Future Of UA At NRT

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
don't you just want to guess that one may be the no new aircraft order they have been hamstrung with?

I hope your right, they need to order some new metal to stay competitive and expand Internationally.....bring on the 787 and 747-8i

Quoting United767 (Reply 31):
I can't wait to see what UA does next at IAD!

India....when they get new metal??

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