trent1000
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The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:28 am

"Fly, Jet-Lag Free
Want to avoid jet-lag? New 787 is designed to make you feel more refreshed."
...so the headline read for the short US news video available at
http://video.news.com.au/ Search for 787.

I'm not disputing the 'more refereshed' claim, but I thought that travelling across time zones was the cause of jetlag. How can any jetlag be avoided by aircraft type? Even if we could travel from London to Sydney in a few hours, our bodies would still feel the effects of time zone change.

The effects of jetlag could perhaps be decreased with LCD ligting and increased humidity and cabin pressure. But it looks like the media doing a good job to keep most people confused between jetlag and feeling tired from a long haul flight across few, if any time zones.

I wonder if Boeing will refund our money if we fly the 787 and get jetlag...
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting Trent1000 (Thread starter):
The effects of jetlag could perhaps be decreased with LCD ligting and increased humidity and cabin pressure. But it looks like the media doing a good job to keep most people confused between jetlag and feeling tired from a long haul flight across few, if any time zones.

Right...it could be decreased but not jet-lag free.
Seems like the media doesn't understand jet-lag to begin with.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
utapao
Posts: 546
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting Trent1000 (Thread starter):
But it looks like the media doing a good job to keep most people confused between jetlag and feeling tired from a long haul flight across few, if any time zones.

So... media is doing a good job, but you ask if...

Quoting Trent1000 (Thread starter):
I wonder if Boeing will refund our money if we fly the 787 and get jetlag...

No.
Sawasdee khrab!
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:47 pm

The best you can do is get rest when your body is telling you to, drink water or juice (keep hydrated), eat good food. But the big help to lower jet-lag would be to get a higher pressure vessel to reduce the cabin altitude, as most airliners are pressurized to 8000 ft, so sucking the thinner air doesn't help.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:26 pm

Boeing would be best advised to shut-up about this, since they cannot actually reduce the effect for all people. Maybe some can be temporarily fooled by twinkling LCDs and so forth, but once that cabin door opens at the destination.....all bets are off. It's not good to float bogus claims in this business, is it?
 
Danny
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:10 pm

Soon they are going to claim that "flying dreamliner improves your sexual life"  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure
 
kevin752
Posts: 684
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 7):
Soon they are going to claim that "flying dreamliner improves your sexual life"

LOL, that was a good one.
"Keep Climbing"
 
manu
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:22 am

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 7):
"flying dreamliner improves your sexual life"

Someone once told me if you see it in print it must be fact... Does this mean the dreamliner will have bigger, cleaner washrooms for that mile high "club"?

PS: JK.
 
Aleksandar
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Well, airliner commercials can sometimes sound ridiculous. I understand the wish of manufacturers to promote their new product as good as they possibly can, but sometimes they are just ridiculous. If you take a look at some old commercials, you will see similar things. For example, 747 was advertised as a "flying hotel". I think that A340 for advertised as a widebody capable of profitably flying anywhere you want to, and so on. So, it is just another commercial. If that can make impact on future sales, it is fine by me, but such commercials usually target potential passengers more and so far, not a single airline anywhere in the world would ask them what to buy.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
Bobski
Posts: 80
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Manu (Reply 9):
Someone once told me if you see it in print it must be fact... Does this mean the dreamliner will have bigger, cleaner washrooms for that mile high "club"?

They'd better, the current ones are too damned cramped to do anything properly!
Who is Benjamin Breeg?
 
georgiaame
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:52 pm

"Jet Lag" is a form of sleep deprivation. The physical act of crossing time zones has nothing to do with the resulting physical and mental discomfort. If it did, astronauts would be flying zombies within 24 hours, after all, each of them crosses 24 time zones every 90 minutes, and somehow they seem to function quite well. The closest you would get to lessening the discomfort is to fly Concorde, but ultimately, you internal clocks will catch up with the environment you find yourself in. In other words, leave JFK at 8AM, arrive in London at Noon, you brain's time, which is 6PM as far as the Londoner's go. You feel great (other than being out $12,000 cash), and your brain still has a good 10 hours of fuel to run on until you get tired. By then, it is 6AM local, you need some sleep, after all, its been a long day, but you have a business meeting to go to in 2 hours. Jet Lag. The same applies on today's aircraft. Leave for Europe at 5PM Eastern time, tense after rushing the entire day so you won't be late, get stuck in traffic, sit on your rear for 2 hours because of security, then fly for 8 hours, and you arrive at 1AM, late, after every spare molecule of water has been sucked out of your system, you've drunk more alcohol than you normally would, eaten either plastic in the back, or too much up front, both of which are sitting like lead in your stomach which is not emptying the way it would on the ground where you walk around and have a normal partial pressure of oxygen environment, and you don't exactly look or feel to well when the aircraft and crew spits you out. Jet Lag.

More cabin pressure and a tad extra humidity will help, but there is no one who is going to look or feel great after a 787 ride, no matter how pretty the cabin may be. The secret to lessening the discomfort is hydration, and as much sleep as you can get, before, during, and after the flight. Personally, I've figured out how to eliminate all Jet Lag GOING to Europe, but it always catches up with me on my return to the East Coast, and I drag my tail for upwards of a week, as my brain takes its revenge on my body for putting it through such torture.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
bucchinij
Posts: 74
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:00 pm

The only way I can see an airplane to be jetlag free is if it flies within the same timezone!
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 12):
I've figured out how to eliminate all Jet Lag GOING to Europe

Please explain this! Do you mean taking the daylight eastbound? This works best for me, just because each night, even if it's shorter than usual, is spent in a bed.
 
swissy
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting Bucchinij (Reply 13):
The only way I can see an airplane to be jetlag free is if it flies within the same timezone!

Exactly my understanding..... how come if I fly from YYZ to Barbados 5-6hr. flight and I have no real issues with sleeping..... but if I fly from YYZ to AMS about 6 hr flight my clock is off....
 scratchchin  no 787/350 will be able to change your inner clock if you travel to different time zones, but hey nice try...  bigthumbsup 

Cheers,
 
kalvado
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 15):
Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 12):
I've figured out how to eliminate all Jet Lag GOING to Europe

Please explain this!

let me think.. How about flying to Europe - spend a few nights in night clubs and sleep till late afternoon, then flying back to US.. No jetlag whatsoever!  Smile
 
Eagle11
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:43 am

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:30 am

The day we are able to eliminate jet lag will be the same day the earth stops rotating on its axis.  Yeah sure


In other words, it's not going to happen any time soon.
"The Eagle has landed"
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Trent1000 (Thread starter):
Trent1000

Your post is correct and balanced, in my view.

I understand that jet lag is from a number of factors:

-High Altitude air pressure for an extended period of time
-dry air environment
-lack of sleep, and aches and pains related to sitting up in a cramped seat all night.
-crossing time zones.
-Imobility
-Some passengers exacerbate these effects by drinking alcohol in large amounts

It seems to me that the 787 can can help aleviate the effects of the first two, however it can do little about the rest, especially the crossing of the time zones.

I have heard that it takes the human body one day per hour of time zone change to adjust, due to our internal clock which manages our awake and sleep cycles, which has to slowly reboot. In other words, if you cross ten time zones, according to that claim, it takes fully 10 days for your body to be adjusted to your new time zone. Whatever the ratio actually is, a trip on the the 787 can do nothing about arriving at your destination and needing to be awake when you are sleepy, or wanting to sleep at night, but you can't, for several days.

One wonders to what extent Boeing PR encourages this distortion of the truth by the press, because whereas higher humidity and cabin air pressure will have a positive effect, and that makes for good PR; to suggest that jetlag would be beaten by the 787 is not correct.

I recall old A/C and airline advertisements regarding the first B and possibly MD passenger jets (707, DC-8), about how we would "fly twice as high, "above the weather...," and that is certainly not the case. I'm frequently in jet A/C which have to fly around cumulo-stratus clouds or make course or alititude corrections in an attempt to escape relentless chop...
I come in peace
 
georgiaame
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Bucchinij (Reply 13):
The only way I can see an airplane to be jet lag free is if it flies within the same timezone!

Not quite, but sort of... Leave early on a long flight going due north or south, you will be tired and numb on arrival, but since the local time there is the same as your departure, it will just be a long DAY. Do an 11PM departure, stay up all night after a long day, drink plenty of alcohol, and first get to bed at 10AM, you will be zonked. Same jet lag. Recovery period might be shorter, though because your natural brain rhythms are unchanged.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 12):
I've figured out how to eliminate all Jet Lag GOING to Europe

My personal secret is a very short acting sleeping pill (Sonata) taken 2 hours after takeoff, usually around the Gulf of Maine when I am flying to Europe from Atlanta. Plus my noise cancelling headphones (I've tried em all, they are all good, but unfortunately the Bose are superb). I am usually out cold for 5 hours of good, uninterrupted sleep, and can still be very easily awakened (2 medical emergencies in flight on my last trip...), but I arrive human. It works the same in economy or in business. Also, the faster you get into a shower on arrival, the better you feel. It probably won't work for everyone, but it does work, consistently, for me. And sleep on the plane/headsets do nothing for me on the return flight.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
It's not good to float bogus claims in this business, is it?

Is it really going to make a huge difference? I dont think so. Sure the airlines look at cool features for pax, but this is not what would make or break a deal. The planes performance, range, capacity and fuel consumption are the dealbreakers....... so all this about LCD lights and bigger windows... its just extra. If boeing retracted their statements about reduction of jetlag.... i highly doubt anyone would cancel their order.  Smile

-AA777
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:12 am

Order counts probably will not be affected, but saying things like "jetlag-free" does impact Boeing PR's credibility a little. What can I expect next from them, that the 787 will feature tires that will last the life of the airframe....without wear?

I'll stick to my previous statement, that Boeing should shut their pieholes unless they have something real and substantive to say.
 
osiris30
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 7):
Soon they are going to claim that "flying dreamliner improves your sexual life"

Actually due to the lower cabin pressure the mile high club is likely to be less exciting (the lower atmosphere in most plains is why the mile high club is so 'good').
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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Francoflier
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

What makes me Jet-lagged, or tired, whatever, after a flight is the fact that I can't sleep.
I can't find a comfy position, my knees are incrusted into a fellow passenger's back in front of me, my a$$ feels like it's made of wood after a few hours, the seat is hard and hardly reclines...

I don't care if they end up sprinkling water in the cabin or try all the existing forms of lighting known to man, unless they make bigger seats, nothing is going to change for me. And of course, the manufacturer has nothing to do with that...

Well I guess the REAL problem is that I can't afford business class, really...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Corsair1107
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:29 pm

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 24):
What makes me Jet-lagged, or tired, whatever, after a flight is the fact that I can't sleep.
I can't find a comfy position, my knees are incrusted into a fellow passenger's back in front of me, my a$$ feels like it's made of wood after a few hours, the seat is hard and hardly reclines...

I don't care if they end up sprinkling water in the cabin or try all the existing forms of lighting known to man, unless they make bigger seats, nothing is going to change for me. And of course, the manufacturer has nothing to do with that...

that about sums up my thoughs on the matter as well.
Flown on: DHC-6/8, F100, B1900C, 717, 727, 737, 757, 767, 777, 319, 320, C152/172, E135/145, DC-9, MD-83/88 CL600
 
AirbusA6
Posts: 1484
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:43 am

Trying to sleep when your body isn't interested doesn't help either. I don't go to sleep at 9pm in my comfy bed, so I certainly won't in a cramped aircraft, irrespective of the fact that it's 'nighttime' on board according to the arrival timezone...

The best sleep I've ever had was a middle seat between 2 large men (I'm big as well) on a CO 757, as the plane didn't take off until 12.30am, then immediately gave us a (surprisingly large) meal...1am...full stomach...zzzzzz
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
antskip
Posts: 829
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RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Bucchinij (Reply 13):
The only way I can see an airplane to be jetlag free is if it flies within the same timezone!

Would there really be no jetlag if we all shared the same "time", wherever we are on earth? Yet that is what we do - no-one actually lives at a different time - everything alive lives in the same moment - so real time has no time zones. Our time zones are constructs, not naturally real, and can be varied from how they are now to just one only or thousands of them.
 
trent1000
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:55 pm

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:14 am

This thread was a reaction to a combination of Boeing spin and media spin resulting in a weak leak in 'cause and effect'.

To be fair, it was the reporter and not the Boeing representative, who at the beginning of the video stated "... But preventing the effects of jetlag may soon be a matter of simply the plane you take off in. This new Boeing 787 Dreamliner is designed to..."

"simply". If only it were that simple.

Thanks for all the positive comments and advice.
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:08 pm

I think the advantages offered by the CFRP fuselage of the 787 could become an industrial matter.

As pointed out already, the dry air and low cabin pressure of conventional aircraft contribute signifigantly to the feeling people call jetlag. In particular the dry air causes many people to develop respiratory problems. You know the cold & chest infection which starts 5 days after you get home from your long trip.

The 787 will have a much higher humidity level than convential aircraft. The level of humidity will probably be limited by the need to stop the growth of algae and fungi, rather than any corrossion problems. (as an aside if Airbus stick with the CFRP panels over aluminium, they will run into trouble trying to match Boeing here, because of corrosion problems of Al at higher humidity.) 18% was the last humidity level I heard. To combat airbone bacteria and spores the 787 will have a highly sophisticated filtration and UV sterilisation system for recycled cabin air, which should deal with viral particles also. (filter out that SARS and birdflu)

There is a lesser known advantage of increased cabin pressure and that is that it is expected to lessen the chances of a DVT.(deep venous thrombosis) In the low pressure environment of convential aircraft blood pools in the veins of the legs and that, associated with inactivity and dehydration is the likely cause of some if not most DVT attributable to aircraft travel. The higher humidity and pressure of the 787 obviously helps here. (once again the 350xwb if it has an Al frame will have trouble matching the 787 because of fatigue problems associated with higher pressure)

Now back to my opening comment, I don't think it will be long before the crews various unions pick up on this.

Ruscoe
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: The 787 Is Jetlag-free

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:33 pm

No airplane will ever be "jet lagg free". Unless of course, it can travel at warp speed....
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