Flying-Tiger
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Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:46 pm

- keeps A50XWB order for 9+4 frames
- will confirm plan for "transition aircraft" (more A340-300?) soon

Quote:
Finnair Oyj (FIA1S.HE) Tuesday said it expects to reach an agreement with commercial plane maker Airbus in the near future on compensation for delays to deliveries of the Airbus A350.



Quote:
In its fourth-quarter earnings statement, Finnair said it ordered nine Airbus A350s with options for four more. The first delivery of the plane will now occur in 2014, compared with an original delivery schedule of 2012-2015.

"We expect to conclude to negotiations with Airbus Industrie in the near future and confirm a plan for aircraft acquisitions during a transition period," the airline said in its statement.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...F93-B8F6-4B92-9054-0ED17F3A49A9%7D
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Ruscoe
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:15 pm

This is a serious question.
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

Ruscoe
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:22 pm

Good news so that makes 11 firm A350XWB orders and 91 old A350s to reconfirm.

It's about time that SQ confirmed their 20 isn't it
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
It's about time that SQ confirmed their 20 isn't it

It's still a paper plane that hasn't been frozen so probably too early.

If customers who ordered the previous A350 start asking for compensation, this cannot be good for Airbus.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 3):
If customers who ordered the previous A350 start asking for compensation, this cannot be good for Airbus.

Except that they will of factored that into the decision as to whether to make the XWB version when they already had firm orders for the old one. Ie the cost of compensation will be more than outweighed by the extra profit that they will make on the extra planes that they will sell of the new version - I think IIRC that this cost has already been written down in last years accounts
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
confirm a plan for aircraft acquisitions during a transition period

This caught my attention - more A343s or new A346s for the 7 year wait?
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Thorben
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 3):
If customers who ordered the previous A350 start asking for compensation, this cannot be good for Airbus.

? What did you expect them to do? They have a contract and Airbus doesn't fulfill what they committed to do.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 5):

This caught my attention - more A343s or new A346s for the 7 year wait?

A346? Holy shhhh... I never thought of those, they might be too large, but they would be very pretty in AY colours.
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Stitch
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 1):
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

I imagine they did, but the A350XB gives them a direct replacement path for their A343s and MD-11s. And AY's non-charter narrowbody fleet is all Airbus. Taken together, imagine Boeing's chances were never very good about landing an order with the 787 family.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
Good news so that makes 11 firm A350XWB orders

No, let's not jump the gun. Finnair is still negotiating, so these are not firm yet.

The most notable thing in the article:
"Interestingly, the Finnish airline said it will receive the revamped A350 XWB aircraft it has ordered at the same price it agreed to pay for the original A350."

If true, this would set a bitter precedent for Airbus. We could see all 100 existing A350 orders go to the XWB at bargain prices. Airbus faces ever increasing development costs with a return on investment pushed yet further into the future.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
EFHK
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 1):
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

Sure they did, but the fleet commonality with Airbus short-haul models and being one of the launch customers were big enough reasons to go Airbus. They have also said about the price that it was "like getting a Mercedes for a price of Lada", so I think you'll get my point.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
A346? Holy shhhh... I never thought of those, they might be too large, but they would be very pretty in AY colours.

With an average load factor of about 75-80% on Asian routes, A346 seems (unfortunately) too big for AY.

2014, that's a LONG time though. For seven years we must settle with replacement aircraft and MD-11s. Financially, probably not that good, from an aviation enthusiast's viewpoint, it's just good. Big grin
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ClassicLover
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 1):
This is a serious question.
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

Well, the MD-11 with Finnair seats somewhere around 300 people, so I imagine they want similar or slightly bigger - and the 787 doesn't really fit in the 300+ seat category.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
"Interestingly, the Finnish airline said it will receive the revamped A350 XWB aircraft it has ordered at the same price it agreed to pay for the original A350."

They have been saying this since the beginning - which is why they said they had no issues as they were getting a better aircraft for the same price. Would love to see that contract!
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Thorben
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting EFHK (Reply 9):
With an average load factor of about 75-80% on Asian routes, A346 seems (unfortunately) too big for AY.

Yep, but let's see whether that grows a little bit.

Quoting EFHK (Reply 9):
2014, that's a LONG time though. For seven years we must settle with replacement aircraft and MD-11s. Financially, probably not that good, from an aviation enthusiast's viewpoint, it's just good. Big grin

Always nice to see at least some trijets.
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jacobin777
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
If true, this would set a bitter precedent for Airbus. We could see all 100 existing A350 orders go to the XWB at bargain prices. Airbus faces ever increasing development costs with a return on investment pushed yet further into the future.

....actually the CEO of IT (Mallya) was mentioning the same thing recently..and I wouldn't be suprised to see QR demand the same thing.....
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tope98
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:53 pm

what is A350´s status?. I got lost between A350, A350XWB and some other version that could have came up after those 2.

Saludos,
 
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Stitch
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting Tope98 (Reply 13):
what is A350´s status?. I got lost between A350, A350XWB and some other version that could have came up after those 2.

It's received its "industrial launch", which means they are lining up suppliers, figuring out how to build it, where to build it and what to build it out of, and formally taking orders.
 
astuteman
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RE: Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
If true, this would set a bitter precedent for Airbus. We could see all 100 existing A350 orders go to the XWB at bargain prices. Airbus faces ever increasing development costs with a return on investment pushed yet further into the future

Although it doesn't change reality, IIRC Airbus has written off the difference in the "lower" realised sale price for existing contracts as part of the E1Bn write down which was made last year upon cancellation of the "old" A350 programme, thus starting the XWB programme off with a genuine "clean sheet".

Regards