eastern023
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

Please Explain KLM-AF In South America

Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:20 am

Please someone explain how this alliance is working. Would AF keep the South american routes and KLM pull out?. Would KLM keep some routes?. What are the chances of KLM expanding in South America.....Sorry I am confused..
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HB-IWC
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RE: Please Explain KLM-AF In South America

Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:38 am

In South America, the only market which is for the time being deemed large enough for it to be served by both carriers is Brasil, which sees daily service from both AF (twice GRU, once GIG increasing to twice daily next winter) and KL (daily GRU).

All other markets have been split up between the two airlines, and as a result of that division, KLM early on in the AF-KL tie up pulled out of CCS. The agreement calls for the following split up:


Air France:

Venezuela - daily CCS
Colombia - daily BOG
French Guyana - daily CAY
Argentina - daily EZE
Chile - 5 weekly SCL, increasing to daily next winter


KLM:

Peru - daily LIM, 6 weekly next summer with the introduction of nonstop service
Ecuador - 5 weekly GYE-UIO, increasing to 6 weekly next summer
Suriname - 3 weekly PBM


As to future amendments to this split up, they will most likely be determined by both the need for additional capacity in certain markets and the ability of the individual carriers to respond to such requests. The ability could be thwarted by lack of resources and restrictions pertaining to bilateral air services agreements.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Please Explain KLM-AF In South America

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Thread starter):
Please someone explain how this alliance is working.

One thing you need to understand is that this is not an alliance. They are the same company, though there are arguments about who is really in charge.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
eastern023
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RE: Please Explain KLM-AF In South America

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
One thing you need to understand is that this is not an alliance. They are the same company, though there are arguments about who is really in charge.

Please excuse my ignorance on this. So will they ever join liveries and become one brand?. CDG and AMS are way too close as hubs. I'm just trying to understand how its all going to work.
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HB-IWC
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RE: Please Explain KLM-AF In South America

Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 3):
CDG and AMS are way too close as hubs. I'm just trying to understand how its all going to work.

As it goes, CDG and AMS are actually further apart than MUC and ZRH, another pair of longhaul hubs belonging to the same company (LH/LX) in their own right. If you also throw FRA into the equation then you have a line of three LH/LX longhaul hubs (FRA-MUC-ZRH) at closer distance from each other than CDG and AMS.

As to how all of this is supposed to work, I guess my previous post is pretty explanatory. AF and KL are both serving the major markets, and have split up the secondary markets between them so as to create a situation where these secondary longhaul destinations are served from just one of the hubs, yet with a greater frequency than was previously possible.

Examples of the latter - where one carrier has pulled out in favor of the other - are abundant: MNL (daily from AMS), CCS (daily from CDG), CGK (daily from AMS), EZE (daily from CDG) and many more.

A similar split up has been established for certain secondary short and medium haul markets, where KLM is typically in charge for Northern Europe whereas Air France takes better care of Southern Europe and Northern Africa.

The question of how all of this is going to work is, as such, a bit irrelevant. The system is very much up and running and both airlines have benefitted greatly from the synergies created by their merger. Whether this merger has been beneficial to the passenger is very much up for debate.
 
orlando666
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RE: Please Explain KLM-AF In South America

Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:55 am

business-wise, AF-KL link-up savings have exceeded even their own estimates.

service-wise, since AF-KL link-up, passenger service/quality has plummeted.

plenty dutch (myself included) going to star alliance ex-AMS.