airfrnt
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Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:51 am

F9 had a lot of interesting little niblets of news come out:
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_5138940

Quote:

Frontier Airlines says it is establishing Cabo San Lucas as its second focus city, with service from five cities in March, as it expands its presence in Mexico. Cancún is its other focus city.

The new focus on Cabo is part of an ongoing strategy to diversify beyond Denver, as pressure from Dallas-based Southwest Airlines hurts Denver-based Frontier.

By March 2008, Mexico flight capacity will make up 18 percent of Frontier's total flight capacity during peak season.

From: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_5322558,00.html

Quote:

Frontier Airlines has taken a financial hit battling Southwest Airlines in Denver but is filling more seats on flights where the two carriers compete head-to- head, a company executive said Thursday.

"Southwest in every market with the exception of Houston is doing very, very poorly in load factors relative with Frontier Airlines," said Paul Tate, Frontier's chief financial officer. "It appears that this differential is increasing. In other words, their load factors are deteriorating relative to ours."

From: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...-02-04-check-in-toronto-usat_x.htm

Quote:

Denver International and Frontier Airlines are working on a plan to expand a regional jet facility on Concourse A.

The Denver-based carrier needs more space for its new subsidiary, Lynx Aviation, which will begin flying this summer in Colorado and Wyoming (and possibly other destinations) with 10 turboprop planes.

Officials haven't determined the scope of expansion, says Joe Hodas, a Frontier spokesman. Until then, Frontier will deal with its growth by taking over six gates being abandoned by United on Concourse A, giving Frontier a total of 23 by May 1.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Thread starter):
Southwest in every market with the exception of Houston is doing very, very poorly in load factors relative with Frontier Airlines

Idunno if I'd say *that*...they're about a few pts behind on most routes with the exception of the routes started in August (MCO(!!!), MCI, and BNA) which seem to be surprisingly thin. Then again F9 runs a hub in DEN so they should have a higher load factor than WN anyway.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Thread starter):
Frontier Airlines has taken a financial hit battling Southwest Airlines in Denver but is filling more seats on flights where the two carriers compete head-to- head, a company executive said Thursday.

"Southwest in every market with the exception of Houston is doing very, very poorly in load factors relative with Frontier Airlines," said Paul Tate, Frontier's chief financial officer. "It appears that this differential is increasing. In other words, their load factors are deteriorating relative to ours."

I don't think I am going to get my WN financial news from an F9 executive. All indications are that WN is doing very well in DEN and they are looking to expand their presence.

I would expect F9 to have higher LF (if for no other reason than being an incumbent in DEN), but I seriously doubt WN's DEN operations are "deteriorating."
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
I don't think I am going to get my WN financial news from an F9 executive.

It would be a curious thing to say if it did not have some basis of truth. It was said to numerous airline analysts::

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_5322558,00.html

The carrier's load factor between Denver and Las Vegas in October, for instance, was 83 percent, while Southwest's was 59 percent, according to Frontier's data.

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_5138940

In October 2006, for example, Frontier's flights to Chicago Midway were 75 percent full, while Southwest's were 57 percent full.

mariner
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socalfive
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:51 am

Frontier is, was and forever will remain "Denver's Hometown Airline". I'll bet that overall they exceed UA as well.
 
juventus
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 4):
Frontier is, was and forever will remain "Denver's Hometown Airline". I'll bet that overall they exceed UA as well.

I agree with Denver's loyalty to Frontier over Southwest. Not sure about the second part of your opinion.
 
andessmf
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 4):
Frontier is, was and forever will remain "Denver's Hometown Airline".

Yep!

I like the Los Cabos focus, especially for the people in the West US. I have heard from some that they like the fact that they can get on an airplane in the morning and be in Los Cabos in the early afternoon, essentially extending your vacation with a short travel schedule.
 
ATLTraveler
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:10 am

Could Frontier fly from Atlanta to Cancun? At present only US Airline(Delta) flies that route. I think Airtran has the authority but does not use it. A little competition would do wonders for us in the area...
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 4):
Frontier is, was and forever will remain "Denver's Hometown Airline". I'll bet that overall they exceed UA as well.

Yup.....In MCI and OMA F9 has larger share on the local market than does UA...when talking about DEN originating pax, the gap is even larger.
 
airplaneboy
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:57 am

Although airlines compete for market share, I wouldn't necessarily call one's performance over another as "beating" them (I see your point though  Smile).

Kudos to F9Big grin They certainly are expanding Mexico. I've worked a couple of LAX-SJD turns, which were full in both directions.

Cheers!
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting ATLTraveler (Reply 7):
Could Frontier fly from Atlanta to Cancun? At present only US Airline(Delta) flies that route. I think Airtran has the authority but does not use it. A little competition would do wonders for us in the area...

FL announced plans shortly before Hurricane Wilma but then obviously stopped the plans after seeing the damage.

They still do have the authority but have not exercised it from what I understand. There are several city pairs that would seemingly go good with CUN from which FL flys out of such as ATL, MCO, MDW, BWI and so forth. FL could work with F9 on combining some South of the Border flights and put some real pressure on DL, CO and AA
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ATLTraveler
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:16 am

Delta is running three direct flights on most days, so there is enough demand. Cancun has come back strong after Wilma. Most have the hotels have finished rebuilding and a lot of new ones have come online. Fares approx. ~ 350 with advance notice.
 
SANFan
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:16 am

Since WN started in DEN, they have increased capacity on their 3 starting routes - LAS, PHX and MDW - and it looks like they may have gone a little overboard. Their participation, along with F9 and UA, made for a lot of capacity on those 3 routes.

WN started just over a year ago (1/3/06) with 4 flights each to PHX and MDW, and 5 to LAS. Their 1/11/07 schedule is 6 to PHX, 5 to MDW, and 7 to LAS. If we soon see n/s WN flights from DEN to the West Coast, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the LAS and PHX flights disappear.

I never expected it would be easy for WN to set up in DEN but then they are still fairly new and they have, after all, gone from 13 to 33 flights in one year.

F9 is definitely the Hometown Airline for DEN and I would expect natives to prefer to fly them first. However, the people in PHX, for example, might very well fly WN first and they help fill the same planes. In other words, DEN is probably the destination half the time instead of the origin.

I'm waiting anxiously to see WN's summer schedule (eff. 5/11) probably coming out later this week; could have some interesting new routes...

Overall, I would pretty much have to agree with you, Dfw':

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
I don't think I am going to get my WN financial news from an F9 executive. All indications are that WN is doing very well in DEN and they are looking to expand their presence.

bb
 
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Thread starter):
"Southwest in every market with the exception of Houston is doing very, very poorly in load factors relative with Frontier Airlines," said Paul Tate, Frontier's chief financial officer. "It appears that this differential is increasing. In other words, their load factors are deteriorating relative to ours."

Cute shot that seems aimed at people who have no idea how things work in the industry. WN consistantly has among the lightest factors in the industry, but more than make up for it with their efficient operation and the highest economy class yield because of their bullet proof fare structure.
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manny
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:37 am

F9 has a much better inflight product that WN.

So i am not surprised head to head all other factors being the same F9 is gaining an advantage.

It is Denver's hometown airline. And the only one!
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
Overall, I would pretty much have to agree with you, Dfw':

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):I don't think I am going to get my WN financial news from an F9 executive. All indications are that WN is doing very well in DEN and they are looking to expand their presence.

So you are saying that the statements and the publicly stated load factor are incorrect - that the CFO of a publicly traded company is deliberately misleading the investment community7

Interesting.

mariner
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SANFan
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
So you are saying that the statements and the publicly stated load factor are incorrect - that the CFO of a publicly traded company is deliberately misleading the investment community7

It certainly wouldn't be without precedence for the CFO of a large, successful company to selectively site facts that support his or her views and/or statements.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gary Kelly could find one or two routes, for one month, over a one year period, that showed WN outperforming F9.

And there certainly is nothing extraordinary about the executive of one airline taking a swipe at the competition. That's in the job description!

I don't think either carrier is leaving DEN. I think it's business as usual and both cx will talk and both will continue to do well and grow!

bb
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
I wouldn't be surprised if Gary Kelly could find one or two routes, for one month, over a one year period, that showed WN outperforming F9.

I have no doubt that Mr. Kelly could. Several posters here did, in the early days.

I am not sure why this would bring Mr. Tate's statements into question. He talked about a trend, and I guess anyone - especially airline anaylsts - can check his statements with the T100's?

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
I don't think either carrier is leaving DEN.

I don't think anyone has suggested that they would.

A little rationalization might not go astray. To this uninformed eye, Southwest's 9 x daily DEN-MCI seems rather a lot.

mariner

[Edited 2007-02-07 01:51:57]
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drerx7
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
Quoting AirFrnt (Thread starter):
Southwest in every market with the exception of Houston is doing very, very poorly in load factors relative with Frontier Airlines

Kind of a side note but DEN is a huge market from Houston--I believe in terms of revenue its like third or fourth behind LAX, NYC, and ORD. Continental has a couple of 757s with at least one being a 753, F9 has 319s and a 318, WN has its 737s, and UA will be putting a 757 on the route.
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Caspian27
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:04 am

As a pilot who lives in Denver and commutes to work I routinely fly on all 3 airlines being discussed here: F9, UA & WN.

From my personal experience, the WN flights that I have been on in the past 4-5 months have had pretty light loads. I used to routinely fly WN flight 350 DEN-MCI, and there were generally about 20-30 pax. This flight left at 6:50am, and a competing F9 flight left at 7:05am. The times that I flew Frontier the plane was generally about 2/3 full. I am fairly certain that this WN flight number doesn't exist in DEN anymore (possibly due to low loads?), and without looking up their flight times I think their first flight to MCI is sometime mid-morning now.

I mostly fly UA into DEN, and their loads on the flights I've been on have been pretty high also. Several times I've received the last seat on the plane, or had to sit in the jumpseat.

From my own experience the article seems to be correct.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
ScottB
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 17):
To this uninformed eye, Southwest's 9 x daily DEN-MCI seems rather a lot.

Nine daily? More like four.

But the analyst presentation is an interesting listen. Paul Tate talks an awful lot about Southwest, and it's pretty clear that WN's entry into DEN is helping to drive some of their decisions.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
Nine daily? More like four.

I don't check that often - a couple of months ago it was more. Maybe they are rationalizing. That's good.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
Paul Tate talks an awful lot about Southwest.

Usually 'coz he gets asked. It seems to be all analysts want to know.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
it's pretty clear that WN's entry into DEN is helping to drive some of their decisions.

I would hope they are cognizant of all their competition, especially United.

mariner
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mtnwest1979
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
Nine daily? More like four.

I don't check that often - a couple of months ago it was more. Maybe they are rationalizing. That's good.

Well, it has never been near 9/day. Looking at 10/29/06 timetable,there were 4 flights Su-Fr, and four Sat only flights.
Basically the same now, but different op days.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
airfrnt
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:23 pm

I do think that WN is finding DEN a bit harder of a nut to crack then they expected. F9 does seem to be holding out well, but they have had to pour it on advertising wise, and the painful blizzards really cost them last month.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 22):
Looking at 10/29/06 timetable,there were 4 flights Su-Fr, and four Sat only flights.

My mis-reading, then. Sorry.

mariner
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coa747
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:44 am

All this talk about Frontier and jetBlue with their live TV. But I doubt that this amenity sells a lot of tickets. In the end most people care how much they ticket costs not whether they can watch TV or not.

It's kind of like that Hertz commercial where the guy asks do your vehicles have an in car navigation system and the agent says we've got an in hand navigation system it's called a map.

Perspective customer says to WN do your planes have an in plane entertainment system? WN agent says our planes have an in hand entertainment system its called a book.
 
ORDagent
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 25):
It's kind of like that Hertz commercial where the guy asks do your vehicles have an in car navigation system and the agent says we've got an in hand navigation system it's called a map.

Actually I have clients that will pay a premium to book Hertz as the nav system is the best in the industry.

I also have DEN based clients that do indeed pay a premium for pre assigned seats and IFE of F9. Most of my clients are traveling for business and since it is not on their dime they are not as price sensitive as leisure travelers.

For me personally now that B6 is here at ORD when I fly revenue to NYC I check B6 first and am willing to pay a small premium to fly them as they have the best product to NYC out of ORD.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting Manny (Reply 14):
F9 has a much better inflight product that WN.

Agreed. I like WN, but if I had the choice between WN or F9 at a similar pirce on the same route, I would always go with F9.

Quoting Manny (Reply 14):
It is Denver's hometown airline. And the only one!

Denver is a very loyal community!
Good goes around!
 
phxplanes
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:51 am

I was looking through the F9 website and noticed on the fleet page they have a link a.net, dont no if anyone else new this but I thought it was kind of cool.
http://www.frontierairlines.com/fron...ervice/travel-support/our-fleet.do
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 27):
Denver is a very loyal community!

Could it be that in the back of a lot of Denver residents mind is that WN left once and they may do it again? Somewhat surprising to see a lot of the comments about light loads on WN's DEN flights. Are these loads recent enough that they could take into account the ski travelers?
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
F9Animal
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):
The carrier's load factor between Denver and Las Vegas in October, for instance, was 83 percent, while Southwest's was 59 percent, according to Frontier's data.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):
In October 2006, for example, Frontier's flights to Chicago Midway were 75 percent full, while Southwest's were 57 percent full.

But, WN is still relatively new to the market. Their load factors will eventually increase, and F9 needs to be aware of that. In the same regards, there is enough market share for both F9 and WN to be successful. I just hope that F9 does not try to consider WN the enemy, as many others have tried that approach and failed. I love F9, and there is no doubt in my mind that they will pull through the tough times. If they survived UA's assault, they can survive competition from WN.

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 9):
Kudos to F9! Big grin They certainly are expanding Mexico. I've worked a couple of LAX-SJD turns, which were full in both directions.

Totally agree with ya! Why not go to a market that brings in a little extra seniors and senioritas! LOL! Maybe Flip can get a little extra Mehico trips!  Smile

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 23):
I do think that WN is finding DEN a bit harder of a nut to crack then they expected. F9 does seem to be holding out well, but they have had to pour it on advertising wise, and the painful blizzards really cost them last month.

Very good point. Airlines freak out when the name Southwest comes into their turf. Instead of fighting to the death, why not tap your resources into other areas to keep the market share? US was a great example of poor moves. They introduced Metro Jet, and declared war on Southwest. Look at what happened.

There is no doubt that the F9 Corporate team is adjusting to this. That is why I applaud their decision to open SJD as another focus city!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
coa747
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:26 am

I personally like to disconnect when I fly. I am tied to my blackberry, cell phone etc when on the ground it is nice to unplug and not worry about work and just watch the world go by. In the air is the one place I don't have to answer calls and handle last minute problems from HQ. I just don't get the complaints about WN's lack of in-flight entertainment. You know what you are getting when you fly them. Their product is their people, they provide the inflight entertainment and have on numerous flights I have been on. The flights to Las Vegas seem to be particularly fun. Transcons, trans Pacific or Atlantic are the only times I care about inflight entertainment. Oh and by the way I use Hertz never lost it was just a joke.
 
chase
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:47 am

I think it's nice that F9 has added focus cities in CUN and Cabo. However, they still need an additional hub or focus city within the US. If I buy a ticket IND-DEN-SLC on F9, and DEN gets snowed in, I really doubt they'd put me on IND-CUN-SLC instead. But if they had a hub in, say, BNA (just picked at random) then maybe they would put me on IND-BNA-SLC.
So...good news, but doesn't exactly fill the hole.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 30):
But, WN is still relatively new to the market. Their load factors will eventually increase, and F9 needs to be aware of that.

That was certainly true of the first three or four months of Southwest at DEN - Southwest's load factors were better than the ones quoted, as several here pointed out at the time.

And, as others have pointed out in this thread, one month's load factors do not necessarily make a trend. October is not the busiest month in the airline calendar.

But I think Mr. Tate's point was that - based on the information we have to hand - the load factor balance has shifted, and that this has been a trend.

This may not always be true, the balance may shift again, but as MaverickM11 points out in reply #1:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
with the exception of the routes started in August (MCO(!!!), MCI, and BNA) which seem to be surprisingly thin.

And I think that many are "surprised" by the quoted numbers - I know I was.

What is provably true, however, is that Frontier's revenue/yield - on the common routes - has been decimated, which is exactly what many predicted.

So I can't think that is a healthy situation for either carrier. But I am not sure what either carrier can do.

mariner
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
I would hope they are cognizant of all their competition, especially United.

I think they call this strategy or is it tactics.
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pdxcof9
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:43 am

Come on!!! Do a PDX-CUN!!! Once or twice a week could do it!!! Alaska started 2 new routes to mexico. And MX does the daily to GDL. CUN would be a perfect place to put a nonstop from PDX!!!
Flown:733,4,7,8,752,763,TU3,CRJ,7,EM2,ER3,4,318,19,346,M80,90 Worked:CRJ,7,9,EM2,ER4,733,5,7,8,9,752,3,318,9
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:16 am

I heard a Frontier ad on the radio promoting SAN-CUN? First time I've ever heard a Frontier ad. Has the route not been doing well and that's why they're advertising? Or is it just to keep the interest up?
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
manny
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 29):
Could it be that in the back of a lot of Denver residents mind is that WN left once and they may do it again?

Travelers do not think that far back in the past. Its more about the here and now.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 30):
Airlines freak out when the name Southwest comes into their turf. Instead of fighting to the death, why not tap your resources into other areas to keep the market share? US was a great example of poor moves. They introduced Metro Jet, and declared war on Southwest. Look at what happened.

Different situation. F9 did not have to start a LCC like US did, they are one. I am not sure what product Metrojet provided but at present F9 is a LCC with way better product than WN.

Quoting Chase (Reply 32):
However, they still need an additional hub or focus city within the US. If I buy a ticket IND-DEN-SLC on F9, and DEN gets snowed in, I really doubt they'd put me on IND-CUN-SLC instead.

You kidding us right. DEN snow storms that paralyze DIA are a once in a blue moon occurrence. After the first storm DIA more or less got its act together. The past few weeks has been more freak weather than the norm. You do not expect an airline to start making major decisions on such very rare occurences.
 
ORDagent
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 31):
Oh and by the way I use Hertz never lost it was just a joke.

I realize this is an aviation forum however I get lost going around the block and neverlost has saved me numerous times.

BACK ON TOPIC

F9 has proven repeatedly that they are one of the most nimble carriers out there all the way back from the beginning when they had to reconfigure there routes from smaller western cities and now with the Lynx commuter division. I just wish I had a reason to fly MDW-DEN!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:37 am

Southwest today announced a couple more Denver flights starting in May.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070208/1415113.html?.v=1

DEN-TPA is a new route, while DEN-BWI gets added frequency.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 39):
DEN-TPA is a new route, while DEN-BWI gets added frequency.

Supposedly, H.M Queen Elizabeth was shown the movie "The Queen" - which was supposed to be an attack on her. When asked what she thought about it, she is said to have replied, quite cheerfully:

"It could have been worse."

From a Frontier perspective, I guess I feel the same way about DEN-TPA - it could have been worse.

 Smile

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rampart
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 29):
Could it be that in the back of a lot of Denver residents mind is that WN left once and they may do it again? Somewhat surprising to see a lot of the comments about light loads on WN's DEN flights.

I'm an A.net member and former Colorado resident, and even I have to be reminded that WN once served Denver. Those less informed probably wouldn't have a clue.

-Rampart
 
ScottB
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):
What is provably true, however, is that Frontier's revenue/yield - on the common routes - has been decimated, which is exactly what many predicted.

The January traffic release, at http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070206/latu138.html?.v=36 , does seem to bear this out. Management notes that the December snowstorms negatively affected January revenue, though I'm not entirely sure exactly how that works (unless they ended up refunding a bunch of returns in January). Backing out the stated effect of the DEN blizzards, passenger RASM was at best flat year-over-year, even with CUN having largely recovered from the devastation of Hurricane Wilma and a greater proportion of capacity having been shifted to Mexico.

It's tough to say what exactly has been going on given that there have been several one-time perturbations of the market -- like the tightening of carry-on restrictions at the end of summer and this winter's unusually severe weather at DEN. Frontier saw healthy passenger RASM improvements from April through August of 2006, even with WN in the market and growing. My guess is that Frontier has chosen to be a bit more aggressive in pricing and scheduling on routes where they directly compete with Southwest. That has allowed them to widen their load factor lead, but has negatively affected their RASM.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Adds Cabo Focus, Beating WN, New Gates

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 42):
My guess is that Frontier has chosen to be a bit more aggressive in pricing and scheduling on routes where they directly compete with Southwest.

I'm sure you may be right, Scott - except I thought they'd been pricing like that since Day 1 of Southwest.

The scheduling does not appear to have changed much on the common routes, though.

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