flyjetstar
Posts: 680
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Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:52 am

From today's Australian:

Tiger is expected to announce an Australian investment tomorrow, possibly involving a link with Perth-based Skywest Airlines that would see Tiger-branded A320s operating from the Western Australian capital.

Aviation sources speculated yesterday that Tiger would use Skywest to put Airbus A320s on the Australian market, amid rumours it was seeking to operate from Perth to the eastern states as well as on the "golden triangle" of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.

Full article here.

This was a surprise to me. Anyone know of how much substance are to the rumours?

If they are on the money how successful will they be?
What to make of the SQ involvement in this? I thought their desire for Australian domestic was long gone.
How would this affect the distant link to DJ?

Also worth noting the comment by Jetstar chief re NZ domestic:

"Our Christchurch operations are really going very, very well and domestic New Zealand and extra flying across the Tasman fall into a category we would want to look at as well."

A hint?
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:03 am

Tiger are selling fares from PER to BKK via SIN with services launching in March. This is part of thier strategy they do Darwin to SIN.

I tink Tiger are on the move in Aus.
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
alangirvan
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:43 am

I think it will be done so that Tiger Australia is just a franchise - it might be the current ownership, with Tiger painted on the planes. Alliance in Queensland has a similar ownership, so Tiger Australia could be a big operation.


Of course, if Qantas is going to put 743s back onto SYDPER, Tiger could lease in some older 744s from SQ so people can watch Krisflyer between PER and SYD/MEL. As an Australian owned carrier Tiger could operate SYDLAX.


I wonder if the people at Tiger eat Frosties for breakfast.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:29 pm

Don't read too much into the Perth links.

I think Tiger knows that they cant compete with a true LCC product east-west coast.

I think the east triangle is where things are at!
 
flyjetstar
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
I think Tiger knows that they cant compete with a true LCC product east-west coast.

Why is that?
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
Why is that?

1. unit costs on the B743 are competitive with narrowbody.
2. J class premiums on QF
3. starting with 4 aircraft makes no sense to deploy aircraft on 19-10 hour blocks to PER.
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:59 pm

In any case, it would be great if Tiger joined us domestically. DJ would have to sharpen it's act and infact I don't understand why SQ hasn't bought a stake in Toll. Oh the airline industry is so incestuous!
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
ANother
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 2):

I wonder if the people at Tiger eat Frosties for breakfast.

No, but I'm sure they drink Tiger Beer!
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:50 pm

There was going to be an announcement late today on who Tiger were going to buy a financial stake in....did anyone catch it?
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
CXfirst
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
I think the east triangle is where things are at!

But, they will have better connections internationally, as they fly to SIN from PER, and the prices need a little beating west to east.

-CXfirst
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 9):
But, they will have better connections internationally, as they fly to SIN from PER, and the prices need a little beating west to east.

Don't forget they also fly SIN-DRW, and with a shorter sector from DRW-SIN, it would make sense to hub internationally over DRW.

At PER, the international and domestic terminals are seperate terminals, which doesn't help with connections.

I understand that in DRW it's a single terminal, and charges are significantly less than PER.

Given BA and OS suspension on SIN-MEL, and SQ redicing BNE-SIN, there may be an opportunity for BNE/MEL - DRW - SIN, feeding into the existing services.
Like Perth, Darwin is also cashed up through the resources boom.
 
flyjetstar
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:13 am

Confirmation here from the SMH.

Singapore Airlines backed Tiger Airways has announced its plans on becoming Australia's third domestic airline by late 2007, sparking expectations it will trigger the mother of all low-cost domestic airfare wars.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:51 am

Wow this is a surprise ... good on 'em. Can Australia really sustain a third "budget" carrier? Even if it's only on the east coast?

And so, SQ has finally arrived on the scene.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:05 am

This is a good thing. I am pleased to see another carrier here......they will rip into JQ & QF market share more than DJ market share.....in my opinion.
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
flyjetstar
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:16 am

It could be that this will allow DJ to become more like QF and then Tiger could be the JQ of DJ. Hope that makes sense! I know there is no link between Tiger and DJ but with SQ being involved in Tiger and the link between Branson, SQ and DJ I would be surprised if DJ didn't know about this. I mean, are SQ going to want to upset Branson by doing something that could undermine his investment in DJ without his knowledge.

Of course the usual question: how long before Tiger do Trans-Tasman!  Yeah sure
 
Curmudgeon
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:34 am

A few things spring to mind instantly:

1. I hope that this puts some price tension into the market for A320 pilots. JQ guys need another bidder for their services. if Tiger was smart they'd hire as many JQ pilots as possible, transferring their own training costs to the Qantas Group.

2. DRW does not have the room to be anybody's hub. The terminal is crowded, and only has four jetways, all of which are used by the incumbent carriers all the time. Many flights now are parked quite a walk from the terminal building as it is.

3. The 743 is a temporary measure...the clock's ticking on that aeroplane. I doubt that there will be a 744 on the route when the 743s are scrapped.

4. The politicians are getting jumpy about the QF buyout, so they may be in a mood to swing open the doors to all comers, including open slather on the Pacific in a couple of years.
Jets are for kids
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 15):
2. DRW does not have the room to be anybody's hub. The terminal is crowded, and only has four jetways, all of which are used by the incumbent carriers all the time. Many flights now are parked quite a walk from the terminal building as it is.

3. The 743 is a temporary measure...the clock's ticking on that aeroplane. I doubt that there will be a 744 on the route when the 743s are scrapped.

IIRC, Darwin may have 4 aerobridges, but what does that matter?
we're talking about about a true LCC, which doesn't even uses bridges in its LLCT in Singapore. so what does it matter if their are no gates.

The way TRs connectivity model works is by simply offering combination fares in the one transactions. pax flying into darwin would need to re-check onto other flights, so would need 2 hours on the ground anyway.

with the terminal being domestic/international and compact, unlike PER, it makes sense.

as for the B743s, I don't see TR 'wasting' time on such long sectors in the start up phase.

I think they would focus on the golden triangle, with a nightly departure from one of the ports to DRW to connect with the SIN flight...
 
carnoc
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:29 am

Official press release has just been issued, and is available at http://en.carnoc.com/list/1/1973.html

Regards.
 
ABpositive
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:51 am

This might be a plan for Singapore to get their transpacific flights. As far as I'm concerned from a consumer's perspective, I am all up for it. The current transpacific fares are an extortion, especially if you compare them to much longer flights such as to Europe.
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:49 pm

Does anyone know, or can take an educated guess at their main hub? I am not very knowledgeable with airline business models but would it be silly to suggest PER as a possible main hub?
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
jupiter2
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:19 pm

If PER was to be a hub, it would require Tiger to serve several Asian ports from PER, not just to other Australian cities. The idea of a hub is to bring passengers to a central point and then distribute them to places further afield. such as Dubai for EK, or ATL for DL.

As 6thfreedom mentioned, for a hub to be viable for Tiger in Australia, Darwin would be the best choice for onward flights to SIN. Would work for all cities east of Adelaide and keep Perth direct to SIN.

As for a domestic hub, they don't need one. Fly the SYD/MEL/BNE triangle plus services to Perth and Adelaide and you've just about covered the main routes. If they get into flying to the Queensland holiday destinations north of Brisbane, then Brisbane does become viable as a hub. That would be more aimed at DJ.

RL
 
alangirvan
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:35 pm

In Europe, many of the LCCs do not talk about hubs - they talk about Focus cities - Ryanair has just announced Dusseldorf. Most of those airlines do not hub in the sense of flying people in from one city and out to another, they concentrate on building up lots of cities which people want to visit from their home city.

If Tiger does make Perth a focus city, then the market is anywhere in flying range of an A320. Yes, Tiger does do some connections through Singapore but the hubbing is second priority when planning flights.

Reports say that Tiger has told the Australian Transport Minister that Regional destinations will be served. We will find out what Tiger's definition of a regional city (less than 50 000 population?).
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:25 pm

Considering they are giving JQ Asia a beating at the moment, this would have to make the consortium wanting to buy QF very nervous as there is much speculation it is JQ they are after for it's low cost model.

This will make air travel in Australia very interesting. DJ have just ordered their fleet of Embraer to free up 737 fleet and increase frequency on the 'golden triangle'. Maybe we will see DJ emerge as a new type of airline.

I think it is all good and I would suggest SQ will never be involved in anything that is not a sure bet. This would also be interesting to see, if as suggested before, that SQ could then fly between Australia and North America using Tiger as thier cover.....DJ must be nervous.


It will be interesting to see how our very own selective free-marketeers like Dixon and co react to this....
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
v jet
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:28 pm

On their website you can vote for where in Australia you would like them to operate! You have 3 choices. Mine were BKQ BCI and LRE.
They did say they wanted to bring lower fare to Australia!
 
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ERJ135
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:19 pm

I heard a brief news item on the radio on my way home from work today.
"We at Tiger Air have 5 A320's available for placement in the Australian market and we intend to take on Virgin Blue and Jetstar."

There was no mention of when or what routes but with 5 aircraft the SYD_ MEL- BNE trio seems about the initial limit. The future however who knows?
I remember when the DC-3 was new!
 
qantas787
Posts: 216
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 pm

I have checked Tigers pricing for DRW-SIN in June - great airfares but the taxes etc etc etc are fairyland stuff which I would hope powers that be would investigate. There is zero explanation on what they are and come to almost AUD300 a head. Absolutely bullshit.
G'day
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 25):
I have checked Tigers pricing for DRW-SIN in June - great airfares but the taxes etc etc etc are fairyland stuff which I would hope powers that be would investigate. There is zero explanation on what they are and come to almost AUD300 a head. Absolutely bullshit.

Unfortunately you are allowed to promote international fares excluding 'fees,taxes & surchages' DJ do it as well.

It is rubbish and no one will do a thing unless you stand against it.
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
Milesdependent
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 26):
Unfortunately you are allowed to promote international fares excluding 'fees,taxes & surchages' DJ do it as well.

It is rubbish and no one will do a thing unless you stand against it.

Yes, but in Australia you have to say what the taxes are. So, none of these $1 fares and you find out at the last minute that the taxes are $300. They have to advertise fares as "$1 + $300 taxes"
 
bill142
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 27):

Yes, but in Australia you have to say what the taxes are. So, none of these $1 fares and you find out at the last minute that the taxes are $300. They have to advertise fares as "$1 + $300 taxes"

Unless tiger are going to absorb the taxes on these fares
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:03 pm

I have just looked at www.jetstar.com, and I tried Melbourne to Bangkok for a March departure. The lowest fares are $275 each way, with taxes quoted on the next page. When the taxes are added, they are $300 on top of the return air fare, and I cannot see anywhere that breaks down the taxes to explain them. So Jetstar are no better than Tiger, on International departures. It is up to ACCC to set the requirement that all international fares advertised in Australia should show the whole price. Tiger will have to show the whole price for Australian domestic trips - people will be angry if the air fare is advertised as $10 before taxes.

If you look at Ryan, which is a model for Tiger, you will see that they now charge you to check in bags. If you prepay when you are booking you pay a certain amount, if you pay at the airport, it will be double that amount.


Ryan is famous for their 25 minute turn arounds. I wonder how often Tiger will achieve 25 minutes from door open to door shut at SYD? Good luck between 0700 and 1000.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting V Jet (Reply 23):
On their website you can vote for where in Australia you would like them to operate!

That's a very interesting "poll". There must be lots of people who put down varied destinations as SYD, MEL, and BNE only have 10-15% each!

I put down ASP & AYQ ... be good for any airline to break the QF monopoly in the Territory. (hmmm, I no longer work for an NT tour operator any more ...)

Keep dreaming? Or wonder if Tiger will indeed think about the Territory (not just DRW).
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
Curmudgeon
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 16):
IIRC, Darwin may have 4 aerobridges, but what does that matter?
we're talking about about a true LCC, which doesn't even uses bridges in its LLCT in Singapore. so what does it matter if their are no gates.

I'm sorry that I truncated my comments; there are only four jetways, so the rest of the many aeroplanes clog up the ramp. My comments were in response to suggesting DRW as a hub. If its a one flight connecting port, that's a different story. I think of something grander than two flights when I think of a hub.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 16):
The way TRs connectivity model works is by simply offering combination fares in the one transactions. pax flying into Darwin would need to re-check onto other flights, so would need 2 hours on the ground anyway.

with the terminal being domestic/international and compact, unlike PER, it makes sense.

I'm not seeing these things as mutually exclusive...if you need a long cnx, then taking grnd tx between terminals is annoying, but doable

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 16):
I think they would focus on the golden triangle, with a nightly departure from one of the ports to DRW to connect with the SIN flight...

I agree that the golden triangle is where the money is. Five aeroplanes though is hardly a critical mass, frequency wise.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 21):
Reports say that Tiger has told the Australian Transport Minister that Regional destinations will be served. We will find out what Tiger's definition of a regional city (less than 50 000 population?).

See above. Australia might be unique in having so few large regional centres. There simply is not a market for second tier jet services, apart from perhaps E Jets competing with DHC-8's
Jets are for kids
 
QantasA333
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:29 pm

I heard only yesterday that the airline was considering ADL as a hub?
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting QantasA333 (Reply 32):
I heard only yesterday that the airline was considering ADL as a hub?

That'd be fun... I can see everyone connecting in Adelaide on the way to Melbourne from Sydney!

Hopefully Tiger will compete on the routes where QF has no competition. That would be fun!

Whoever said LRE was making sense - the fare is a scandal return from SYD.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
GneissGuy
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:16 pm

I reckon Tiger will operate from secondary airports. No need for fancy aerobridges and stuff..... Melbourne Avalon?

But with 5 aircraft ready for immediate operation, it's gonna be one heck of a blast off.

I wonder what effect this will have on Qantas, Virgin Blue?

Also, how will this affect Australian government's stance on protecting Qantas and denying SQ transpacifc rights?

Lastly, imagine the amount of feeder traffic into SIN through its australian hub en-route to other Southeast Asia destinations Tiger Airways will bring if it makes it big in Australia! This is good news for Singapore, but not so good for Qantas i guess.

I believe there is vast potential for LCC growth in Australia, especially since most of the major cities are located on the coast, all around the continent, it makes sense for cheap, no frills domestic flights.
 
 
CXfirst
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:47 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 10):
At PER, the international and domestic terminals are seperate terminals, which doesn't help with connections.

However, you could sell a ticket as ADL-SIN with a change of plane in PER. Then again MEL/SYD/BNE/CNS - SIN via PER does not sound very good.

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 20):
Darwin would be the best choice for onward flights to SIN.

I agree, and as PER-SIN via DRW does not sound too good, they made it non-stop. This plan looks good.

-CXfirst
 
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zeke
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 15):
if Tiger was smart they'd hire as many JQ pilots as possible, transferring their own training costs to the Qantas Group.

JQ pilots like Tiger pay for their ratings, and are bonded as well.

Quoting ABpositive (Reply 18):
The current transpacific fares are an extortion, especially if you compare them to much longer flights such as to Europe.

When the USA is closer to Australia, fares will come down, seat density is lower on tans pac flights due to the distance, most QF flights make very little yield trans pac.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 22):
Considering they are giving JQ Asia a beating at the moment

What routes do they compete ? The rumours we hear is that Tiger have been given preferential routes & treatment.

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 34):
I reckon Tiger will operate from secondary airports. No need for fancy aerobridges and stuff..... Melbourne Avalon?

I was under impression that Fox is locked into JQ/QF. All this was tried not so long ago with Ozjet, compass, compass II, Impulse etc etc. Maybe they have purchased 49% of the Ozjet AOC, Stoddard would jump at an idea for someone to bail out another of his failed airlines.

If they have Ozjet, BNE-POM-SIN would be an option, since Ozjet was flying BNE-SIN.

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 35):
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...cific_business/view/257918/1/.html

It took VB over 10 mill to obtain its AOC. 10 mill is not going get him an AOC, an office, computer systems, phone networks, and terminal space.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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zeke
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:28 pm

Also interesting to see that Ozjet changes company office holders on feb 2nd, and changed its company office address. Maybe just a coincidence.

06/02/2007 1E2895570 2 484E Change to Company Details Appointment or Cessation of A Company Officeholder
06/02/2007 1E2895571 2 484A1 Change to Company Details Change Officeholder Name Or Address
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Gemuser
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 38):
Also interesting to see that Ozjet changes company office holders on feb 2nd, and changed its company office address. Maybe just a coincidence.

06/02/2007 1E2895570 2 484E Change to Company Details Appointment or Cessation of A Company Officeholder
06/02/2007 1E2895571 2 484A1 Change to Company Details Change Officeholder Name Or Address

Well that possibly answers some of the questions!

The one I wonder about is a one type airline (A320B737) serving "regional" Oz. While I realise that population is not the sole factor in traffic generation, it remains about the best general indicator we have. So what is the minimum size town needed to support daily A320 service? My wield guess is about 50,000. That the size of Mildura, Coffs Harbour, Wagga Wagga & Bunbury, with Bundaberg being a bit bigger at just under 60,000. Yet none of these except Coffs is served by such large aircraft. Its only when we get up into the 1000,000 to 500,000 range do we regularly see such aircraft size. (Albury, Launceston, Cains, Townsville, Sunshine & Gold Coasts and Newcastle. If we take a mid point between these two sizes and look at the situation if such size aircraft are viable with a population of 75,000 or greater, how many towns does that leave outside the national/state/terrority capitals? A total of 13!

They are:Newcastle (NSW)
Gold Coast-Tweed (Qld/NSW)
Wollongong (NSW)
Sunshine Coast (Qld)
Geelong (Vic.)
Townsville (Qld)
Cairns (Qld)
Toowoomba (Qld)
Launceston (Tas.)
Albury-Wodonga (NSW/Vic.)
Ballarat (Vic.)
Bendigo (Vic.)
Burnie-Devonport (Tas.)
Bathurst-Orange (NSW)

Not an inspiring bunch for a "regional" airline using A320/B737 size aircraft. And of this list Wollongong, Geelong, Toowomba, Ballarat & Bendigo have almost no current airline services due to close proximity to their state capitals.

Frankly I doubt we will see Tiger outside the state capitals except for the heavy tourist spots (that are NOT included on the above list) of Alice Springs and ???

Note: All population data as at 30/6/04 from:
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....etailsPage/1301.02006?OpenDocument
Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 19):
Does anyone know, or can take an educated guess at their main hub? I am not very knowledgeable with airline business models but would it be silly to suggest PER as a possible main hub?



Quoting CXfirst (Reply 36):
Then again MEL/SYD/BNE/CNS - SIN via PER does not sound very good.



Quoting CXfirst (Reply 36):
I agree, and as PER-SIN via DRW does not sound too good, they made it non-stop. This plan looks good.

DRW is the'logical 'hub' for connections from the east coast and adelaide.
I think PER is big enough to remain a point to point service with daily frequencies and connections from Asia via SIN.
I think use most aircraft capacity on the east coast, and will time services east coast - DRW to connect in both directions with DRW-SIN.

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 25):
I have checked Tigers pricing for DRW-SIN in June - great airfares but the taxes etc etc etc are fairyland stuff which I would hope powers that be would investigate. There is zero explanation on what they are and come to almost AUD300 a head. Absolutely bullshit.

As pointed out, JQ does the same thing. Given your username, I suspect you are a little worried about the prospect of TR entering the market!
 
qantas787
Posts: 216
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 39):
Frankly I doubt we will see Tiger outside the state capitals except for the heavy tourist spots (that are NOT included on the above list) of Alice Springs and ???

How about Mount Isa, its a monopoly at the moment. Only 25000 pop but huge work forces moving thru, and vast distances to nearest regional or capital city.
G'day
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:19 pm

I tell you what, Tiger is going after Qantas. DJ isn't the target here.

DJ's lower cost structure will enable them to compete just fine, but QF should be worried about its domestic
operations. Currently the situation is cozy. BUT.... but what if tiger start flying MEL-SYD-BNE and dropping prices? Qantas keeps jetstar off these routes to avoid compeitition with its mainline operation, but all those staff still have to be paid, even if qantas hitback with a jetstar expansion.

Either that or Dixon uses it to force staff levels at QF mainline down to jetstar levels? Then his costs would only be marginally higher and could continue to use his full service mantra to differentiate his product, and possibly expand it.
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 41):
How about Mount Isa, its a monopoly at the moment. Only 25000 pop but huge work forces moving thru, and vast distances to nearest regional or capital city.

You could say the same about Karratha and Broome, Broome needs cheaper flights for the tourists. Karratha only has QF and most flights are fully booked.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4348
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 41):
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 39):
Frankly I doubt we will see Tiger outside the state capitals except for the heavy tourist spots (that are NOT included on the above list) of Alice Springs and ???

How about Mount Isa, its a monopoly at the moment. Only 25000 pop but huge work forces moving thru, and vast distances to nearest regional or capital city.

OK so for regional service with A320/B737 size aircraft we have the 13 listed in reply 39 on the basis of population, plus:
Alice Springs - Tourists
Mount Isa - Huge mobile workforce
????

Add your potential town, BUT you must have a reason! And don't list a town on the orginal list in reply 39.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 44):
Add your potential town, BUT you must have a reason! And don't list a town on the orginal list in reply 39.

Ok well obviously Karratha. Why? because there is a massive FIFO workforce here and QF and National Jet have the monopoly on the route. But it would hinge on Tiger getting a contract with company because the major clients are with QF and only fly on fully operated QF flights and not National Jet services. Also almost every employer in Karratha offers its employees atleast 1 return airfare to Perth every year most now offer 2 to keep staff, so thats another thing they could capture.

Broome, could do with an airline to cater for the backpackers, DJ aims at tourists in general and not at backpackers so it could work.

Its funnt was just thinking how many airlines actually service WA, Alliance, Skippers, Skywest, OZ Jet, QF, National Jet, Virgin Blue and Jetstar is looking at expanding so if they were to come into WA Tiger would defintley have its competition.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
GneissGuy
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:42 pm

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 45):
Ok well obviously Karratha. Why? because there is a massive FIFO workforce here and QF and National Jet have the monopoly on the route. But it would hinge on Tiger getting a contract with company because the major clients are with QF and only fly on fully operated QF flights and not National Jet services. Also almost every employer in Karratha offers its employees atleast 1 return airfare to Perth every year most now offer 2 to keep staff, so thats another thing they could capture.

Somehow i think Tiger will concentrate on the major cities, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Cairns, maybe Canberra. And maybe some tourist hotspots, Alice Springs, Gold Coast.

These are the "sure bets" with high traffic volumes and can sustain the long term development of the carrier in Australia.

Some see this as a way SQ is getting back at Qantas for lobbying against their application to fly the transpacific route?
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 46):
Some see this as a way SQ is getting back at Qantas for lobbying against their application to fly the transpacific route?

Well not even a 'get back' but perhaps a strategic move to put pressure on Qantas. After all, Qantas is doing the exact same thing in SQ's backyard with jetstar's singapore hub.

What interests me is this. Virgin can drop their prices in the current market and survive thanks to their cost base, but Qantas on the other hand will struggle. I see this as creating serious problems within the Qantas group. It may force them to expand jetstar and layoff Qantas mainline... something that i can see will only result in serious industrial action.
Although its not likely to offer a frequent flyer program (just low fares) Tiger Airways would be able to offer a link to Krisflyer... and of course as long as their majority Australian owned nothing to stop SIA "leasing" their 777 or 747s to Tiger Airways to operate them across the pacific is there?

If tiger reduce the BNE/SYD/MEL fare to less then 100 dollars on most flights, it's going to be very hard for QF to maintain cityflyer in its current form. One of the reasons they (qantas) thought they'd succeed with an airline within an airline concept when it had failed overseas was due to the fact that they figured there would be no other competitors in the market they way there is in larger marketplaces like the USA or EU flights. That way Jetstar could do thinks like what they have done on Gold Coast routes without having to worry about pissed off passengers going elsewhere... or.... without it cannibalising itself (like BA did on London to Scotland routes with GO etc). If Tiger Airways fights hard enough, I think we could see this being seriously an issue for QF. Although some my point to Impulse... the problem was impulse was poor run. As evidence by their start up... on their inaugural 717 flight they actually where charging prices about 35% higher then that being charged at the same time by the Ansett and Qantas, under the guise that it was a walk up oneway fare without conditions. Well...obviously they didn't have that much insight into things if they couldn't see from the global marketplace that was the wrong move.

So, although impulse had a good cost structure, I think they really didn't know how to sell that cost structure.
SIA on the other hand, comes from a very experienced position.

Another factor to consider. The less loyal Australian travellers are to Qantas for domestic trips, the more that they'll also be less loyal for international trips. Now for many routes, if they're not going to select QF for long haul, SIA is up the top of the list for many travellers to and from Australia. The very presence of Tiger Airways in Australia undermining the frequent flyer program could have a significant benefit to SIA's long haul operation. Lots to think about there.... I'm pretty sure Virgin will survive. But Will Qantas domestic in its current form?
Now repeat after me....who can say "j e t s t a r"? (god help us all)
 
GneissGuy
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:42 pm

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 47):
Although its not likely to offer a frequent flyer program (just low fares) Tiger Airways would be able to offer a link to Krisflyer... and of course as long as their majority Australian owned nothing to stop SIA "leasing" their 777 or 747s to Tiger Airways to operate them across the pacific is there?

I think this is highly unlikely. Tiger Airways functions as a separate entity from SIA and there is 0 cross subsidy involved on the operations side. SIA only has a stake in Tiger, but has no say in the day to day running of the airline.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 47):
Another factor to consider. The less loyal Australian travellers are to Qantas for domestic trips, the more that they'll also be less loyal for international trips. Now for many routes, if they're not going to select QF for long haul, SIA is up the top of the list for many travellers to and from Australia. The very presence of Tiger Airways in Australia undermining the frequent flyer program could have a significant benefit to SIA's long haul operation. Lots to think about there.... I'm pretty sure Virgin will survive. But Will Qantas domestic in its current form?
Now repeat after me....who can say "j e t s t a r"? (god help us all)

Interesting observation. What Tiger will seek to do would be to attract more Australian travellers to its Singapore hub and then feed them onto its already quite entensive Southeast Asian network. Don't really see much interlining taking place between TR and SQ, especially since they operate from different terminals altogether.

All in all, this bodes well for Singapore, but not so good news for Qantas i guess.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 48):
What Tiger will seek to do would be to attract more Australian travellers to its Singapore hub and then feed them onto its already quite entensive Southeast Asian network. Don't really see much interlining taking place between TR and SQ, especially since they operate from different terminals altogether.

Don't be so sure. I don't see any interlining at all taking place between SQ and TR... but just because Tiger operates a certain way and in a certain fashon out of its singapore hub doesn't mean it will operate in the same mannor inside Australia. let's not forget that SYD-MEL is the worlds 6th busiest domestic air route. Thats still a lot of traffic. If you have ever driven it, especially on the New South Wales side and seen the state of the roads you'll understand why so many people are flying it.

The purpose of Tiger Airways would not be to DIRECTLY feed SIA's flights. BUT any effort which weakens the strengh of the very strong Qantas frequent flyer program would definately help fill SIA's flights.... basically not by domestic feeds, but by damaging customer loyalty to Qantas. Of course Qantas could fight back by offering QF frequent flyer points on jetstar flights on cheapier fares? The option is always there, but it would hurt jetstar's cost base. That and I believe they can make a profit flying domestically in Australia with their current costbase.