EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Just wondering as it is still mentioned on www.boeing.com

Quote:

The new SkyLoft area on the upper deck of the 747-8 Intercontinental gives operators the choice between additional main-deck seats or the opportunity to create a unique passenger experience through personal suites, a lounge or a business center

I wonder how it would affect the aircrafts CASM, ranges and payload.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23103
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:51 pm

I imagine it has been.

It would increase OEW and payload (more seats on the main deck), both of which would reduce range. The OEW increase would raise CASM, but the extra payload would then lower it back again.
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1976
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
I imagine it has been

I would agree, but I know Boeing has the philosophy of if the customer want it, they'll do it. I think this could possibly be the case for the few BBJ748's that were sold.
 twocents 
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6580
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Don't know. Has the inflight swimming pools, gambling casinos, and massage parlours on the A380 been dropped yet?
Made from jets!
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Don't know. Has the inflight swimming pools, gambling casinos, and massage parlours on the A380 been dropped yet?

Swimming Pool?, oh dear another myth EK are apparently putting in showers though.
The other two, well guessing you have not been on a VS 744 lately, those masseuse girls can work wonders. I believe that it is Mr Richard Branson who has promised gambling and massages on his fleet, but then what would he know

[Edited 2007-02-09 15:43:45]
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
those masseuse girls can work wonders

Would sir like and extras today (wink, wink)
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:20 am

I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.

They quote 400 seats as the figure that they will put on the 748, whats the seat count for their -400s?
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.

I agree- In fact I would not be surprised if the "firm" configuration for the 748I is for 479 seats.

-Jon
 
CM767
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:58 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:38 am

From the start the galley option was the only one with a chance, I believe that airlines would go for it.
But The Best Thing God Has Created Is A New Day
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting CM767 (Reply 9):
From the start the galley option was the only one with a chance, I believe that airlines would go for it.

Theres confusion whether its even being offered any longer.

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 8):
Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.

I agree- In fact I would not be surprised if the "firm" configuration for the 748I is for 479 seats.

I have not seen it mentioned in press releases from either LH or Boeing regarding the LH order. I think this is a sign that these aircraft wont have lofts, as the idea was one of the selling points Boeing was originally touting and they would be trying to give it some publicity.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23103
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 2):
I think this could possibly be the case for the few BBJ748's that were sold.

I imagine the suites below the ceiling are larger and more luxurious then the ones they can put above the ceiling.  Wink

Still, might be a good place to keep the staff from underfoot.  Smile
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Theres confusion whether its even being offered any longer.

If Boeing doesn't offer it and a customer wants it, the aftermarket companies such as Flight Structures and Heath Tecna will be all over it.

Tod
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Swimming Pool?, oh dear another myth EK are apparently putting in showers though.

Since Airbus had all kinds of problems routing electrical wiring. Imagine what they will up against with the water pipes and drains that will be required for showers?
 
hb88
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
Just wondering as it is still mentioned on www.boeing.com

Quote:

The new SkyLoft area on the upper deck of the 747-8 Intercontinental gives operators the choice between additional main-deck seats or the opportunity to create a unique passenger experience through personal suites, a lounge or a business center

I wonder how it would affect the aircrafts CASM, ranges and payload.

I think this was always in the same category as the A380 swimming pools and bowling alleys. Good media/PR, but not really for the masses.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:46 am

The thing about all this that one should really pay attention to is that the 748I will have LAX-MEL-LAX range even loaded to its max structural payload, so range loss really isn't an issue if they decide to use the wasted space on the sky loft concept. Personally, I think at least some of it will end up as crew rest.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
hb88
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
The thing about all this that one should really pay attention to is that the 748I will have LAX-MEL-LAX range even loaded to its max structural payload, so range loss really isn't an issue if they decide to use the wasted space on the sky loft concept. Personally, I think at least some of it will end up as crew rest.

I'd have thought that if payload/range wasn't an issue, it would end up with the fate of any spare space on a long-haul aircraft - jammed to the max with fare-paying seats. Or is the space completely impractical for pax?
 
pygmalion
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:15 am

It was always just an option not a standard fixture. As such, its up the the airline if they want it or not.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting HB88 (Reply 16):
I'd have thought that if payload/range wasn't an issue, it would end up with the fate of any spare space on a long-haul aircraft - jammed to the max with fare-paying seats. Or is the space completely impractical for pax?

If that was the case, lots of aircraft would have more seats in them. Comfort on an aircraft drives up yield, which can make a less dense aircraft more profitable. As far as the space in question, it is not as if Boeing has made some sort of provision to drill holes for windows, so it is not as if they will be able to put regular seats up there. Like I said, it will likely end up as crew rest for most carriers.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Since Airbus had all kinds of problems routing electrical wiring. Imagine what they will up against with the water pipes and drains that will be required for showers?

Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.


Including the water supply and drain system?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23103
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 20):
Including the water supply and drain system?

Potable water is not an unknown thing on an airliner, and shower systems are not unknown to BBJs and ACJs, so it shouldn't be too much of a brain twister for them to figure out how to connect the shower to the plumbing of a seperate potable water system.  Smile
 
cusaeng
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:27 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Swimming Pool?, oh dear another myth EK are apparently putting in showers though.

Since Airbus had all kinds of problems routing electrical wiring. Imagine what they will up against with the water pipes and drains that will be required for showers?

EASY ... just drill a set of small holes in the floor.
TADA drainage problem solved!. out of sight out of mind �
I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.

How much water can this self contained system hold? My self contained system in my RV (Caravan too you) carries forty gallons, that is enough for maybe three showers, if your quick. That forty gallons also weighs 240 lbs. If you just have showers for the first class passengers and say limit them to the first 10 passengers you are talking over a ton of extra weight.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23103
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:03 pm

It is highly likely the system will use recyclers to allow the potable water load to handle multiple showers.

And while people on this board seem to get bent out of shape when they hear it, I am sure many municipalities around the world use recycled water and folks don't fear going into their showers there. Heck, don't cruise ships do water recycling in addition to (or even in place of ) de-salination of seawater?
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13764
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Theres confusion whether its even being offered any longer.

No, there is no confusion. The galley's are being offered. The only place I've ever heard they are not is on a.net, specifically from you, in this thread, in reply 10.

Quote:
Boeing 748 background...
The new SkyLoft area on the upper deck of the 747-8 Intercontinental gives operators the choice between additional main-deck seats or the opportunity to create a unique passenger experience through personal suites, a lounge or a business center.

That statement makes quite clear that you can choose to put new products up there, or to put the galley space/cart storage up there to free more main deck space for "additional main-deck seats" and I believe LH is planning this.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
I wonder how it (Skyloft) would affect the aircrafts CASM, ranges and payload.

But you don't wonder how showers would?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):
Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
I wonder how it (Skyloft) would affect the aircrafts CASM, ranges and payload.

But you don't wonder how showers would?

Nowhere near as much, its probably just one shower, about the same weight as a toilet unit, whatever that weighs. No structural modifications, lifts, stairs etc required. Theres no reason why the 748i could not have a shower onboard.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Theres confusion whether its even being offered any longer.

No, there is no confusion. The galley's are being offered. The only place I've ever heard they are not is on a.net, specifically from you, in this thread, in reply 10.

Firstly I was asking whether they are still on offer or not, not stating that they are not on offer (see thread title). Why are Boeing not mentioning this feature in press releases anymore????? And for clarification I was refering to the loft area as was shown on the promo video, not just galleys.

[Edited 2007-02-10 17:57:34]
 
EI321
Topic Author
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 23):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.

How much water can this self contained system hold?

Here are designs of such showers:
http://www.dasell.com/interiors/aircraft-interiors.html

Quote:

Fixing the shower cabins to the floor area of the aircraft is done either via the seat tracks or via hard points which are integrated into the structure of the floor framework. The upper connection to the aircraft's fuselage is accomplished via mountings and tie rods attached to the shower cabins.

And heres a job offer for all you aspiring aircraft toilet and shower engineers!

Quote:

Job Title:, A380 Shower & Lavatory Models Designers. Region:, Germany. Description:, Design and development of A380 shower and lavatory using Catia .......

http://www.bishop-gmbh.com/index2.php?con=jobs&lang=en

[Edited 2007-02-10 18:00:42]
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1976
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I imagine the suites below the ceiling are larger and more luxurious then the ones they can put above the ceiling.

Still, might be a good place to keep the staff from underfoot.

Yea, that's where I was going with that.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
pygmalion
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 27):
Firstly I was asking whether they are still on offer or not, not stating that they are not on offer

they are still an available option.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: 747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):
Heck, don't cruise ships do water recycling in addition to (or even in place of ) de-salination of seawater?

Many offshore installations just use pot water recyc. Since we never attend black tie balls when we're offshore, it's not that big a deal.

Who is online