stapleton
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DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:27 am

The Delta downloadable timetable shows 4 times weekly FAT - ATL non-stop service along with 4 times weekly BZN - ATL service and Daily GEG - ATL service beginning this summer. Last year the BZN service was only twice weekly so they must have been pleased with its results and now expanding the idea to other airports in the west.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:30 am

Similar to what they have had in BOI as of late. Flights Th or Fr-Mo n/s to ATL. Nice to see more service from out West to ATL.

Added: During the May-Sept months. Maybe daily during peak Summer travel time.

[Edited 2007-02-10 00:31:28]
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
stapleton
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:36 am

You are right, BOI was really one of their first experiments for smaller cities west of Denver for Atlanta non-stop service. It is great to see it working even if they aren't yet all daily year round flights.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:48 am

Interesting to see that. Was expecting BZN back, though I'm positively surprised at the increased frequency. ATL-FAT is a route that I'd have expected to happen some time down the road anyway, so that doesn't surprise me. However with GEG, I have my doubts about that one. Though I won't mind if DL proves me wrong.
 
rwsea
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Interesting to see that. Was expecting BZN back, though I'm positively surprised at the increased frequency. ATL-FAT is a route that I'd have expected to happen some time down the road anyway, so that doesn't surprise me. However with GEG, I have my doubts about that one. Though I won't mind if DL proves me wrong.

Well, there are pretty high frequencies from GEG-SLC, and they usually have at least one mainline flight a day (which for DL, is huge). I think this flight will do ok in the summer. DL has made stranger places work from ATL ...
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:18 am

FAT-ATL will be nice. Hopefully it will do well, summer is high traffic numbers at FAT. Last year AA saw 98% LFs on FAT-DFW,

An ATL flight is also perfect timing for me, we were considering a vacation to the Caribbean next summer. This will give me more options.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):
FAT-ATL will be nice. Hopefully it will do well

I hope the same

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):
An ATL flight is also perfect timing

As for me too! I will be flying to GRU and possibly DKK as well. Any idea on what they will use on this route? A old 737 or will they put an MD on this flight? Good too because they will be getting that $30,000 - $60,000 discount as well right FATFlyer? FAT is moving on up buddy! This is GREAT! Big grin
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FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 6):
Good too because they will be getting that $30,000 - $60,000 discount as well right FATFlyer? FAT is moving on up buddy! This is GREAT!

Actually if it is only 4 days a week it may not qualify.

The wording in the program called for 5 days a week on a jet with a minimum of 50 seats.

So either DL would need to increase frequency or the airport needs to go back to the City Council to get the program amended.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
avconsultant
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:20 am

Which aircraft will be utilized for these routes?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:31 am

I just looked and it shows as a 737-800. Starts June 8.

FLT # 820 dep FAT 6:50AM arr ATL 2:10PM operating T/Th/Sa/Su

FLT #821 dep ATL 6:25PM arr FAT 8:20PM operating M/W/F/Sa
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
stirling
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 9):
I just looked and it shows as a 737-800. Starts June 8.

First time for the type in Fresno?

Great news indeed, hopefully the area will support the new route so well that Delta will make it a year-round service!

Could it be, that after all these years the airlines are finally waking up to realize that the greater Fresno region is a viable market in its own right....and not some backwater town people come from to meet their flights in LAX and SFO?
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copaair737
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:27 pm

Great news for FAT.
Can't wait for these flights to start up.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
First time for the type in Fresno?

For scheduled service yes, though maybe a charter has come through. The first -800 was delivered in 1997 or 1998, FAT hasn't seen a scheduled 737 of any model since before that.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
Could it be, that after all these years the airlines are finally waking up to realize that the greater Fresno region is a viable market in its own right....and not some backwater town people come from to meet their flights in LAX and SFO?

As I said a few days ago I expect several route announcements this year and next but this wasn't one I thought was going to happen.

So the ones I'm waiting for could still be brewing. One I really expect will come in the next 6 to 8 weeks if it happens.

I know some on a.net have said in the past they didn't think FAT would see big announcements, that the market wasn't there. I think this is one that shows them wrong.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
copaair737
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:26 pm

So are there 4 Mainline carriers at FAT now? F9, AA, DL, and Allegiant?

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 13):
So are there 4 Mainline carriers at FAT now? F9, AA, DL, and Allegiant?

4 currently - Frontier, American, Allegiant, and Mexicana.

Delta will make 5.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
copaair737
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 14):

4 currently - Frontier, American, Allegiant, and Mexicana.

Delta will make 5.

Gotcha. I forgot MX flew there.
FAT is really taking off. I would guess another logical expansion would be AA to ORD.
With XJT announcing ONT and SAN, and now DL to ATL, things are looking up for Central California's Major Airport.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:40 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 15):
FAT is really taking off. I would guess another logical expansion would be AA to ORD.

AA or UA to ORD. I personally lean toward AA doing it since UA already connects FAT passengers at 3 hubs.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
copaair737
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
AA or UA to ORD. I personally lean toward AA doing it since UA already connects FAT passengers at 3 hubs.

I think AA to ORD as well. I think this mainly because AA Mainline already flies to FAT, and it wouldn't be that hard to add a new destination. UA doesn't have that luxury, as Skywest does all their flying for them out of FAT.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 17):
UA doesn't have that luxury, as Skywest does all their flying for them out of FAT.

Seasonal UA mainline could be handled by OO, so if they wanted to do a summer flight to ORD, they could.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 7):

Actually if it is only 4 days a week it may not qualify.

The wording in the program called for 5 days a week on a jet with a minimum of 50 seats.

So either DL would need to increase frequency or the airport needs to go back to the City Council to get the program amended.

I am very familiar with these sorts of incentive programs.

That amount of money is pocket change as it relates to this service. If it doesn't reach six figures, it really is irrelevant to a carrier the size of Delta. Such a program doesn't have the intended "incentive" effect until it gets into the several hundred thousand dollar range, particularly when we are talking about mainline equipment. That incentive was not a factor in this decision, though DL will gladly have the airport use it to market the service.

Which brings me to the other point, no matter what the policy states, The airport will provide that incentive (and probably more) to make sure this service works. Whether or not they have to change the policy, they will get it done. They simply cannot refuse Delta marketing support for service like this because it doesn't fit within some pre-determined, arbitrary guidelines.

I guarantee you that the airport administration is already working on a work-around to the policy. They know this is a big opportunity for them.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 19):
They simply cannot refuse Delta marketing support for service like this

The incentive we are talking about is for fee and rent waivers, not marketing support. This program would waive rent and fees for 120 days after start of a new domestic flight.

No it would not be the deciding factor for any airline, nor should it be for any smart airline. A route that is only justified by incentives will not stick after the money runs out.

I do agree the airport staff will do what they can to ensure this route's success.

The airport the last few years has been good about offering marketing support for new routes. This incentive was simply to formalize additional support beyond the marketing work they have offered before.

Mexicana is a case in point. The airport marketed the FAT-GDL route along with MX so that it went in 6 months from an A318 to an A320. Even with the A320 capacity they continue to see good load factors. Likewise for Frontier, Fresno/Yosemite Intl ran TV and newspaper ads among other things, that route is now also operated mainline instead of on a CR7.

I have no doubt that FAT's administration understands what they need to do to work with Delta. I hope you don't think its a bunch of "small town hicks" out here.  

[Edited 2007-02-10 18:49:16]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 20):
I have no doubt that FAT's administration understands what they need to do to work with Delta. I hope you don't think its a bunch of "small town hicks" out here.

Not at all. I suspect they're already working with Delta. I was just pointing out that amount of money is not at all significant in this scenario.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 21):
I was just pointing out that amount of money is not at all significant in this scenario.

And I agree.

Personally I think the timing of creating the policy makes me guess it was geared for someone else.

The policy was proposed to and approved by the Fresno City Council on Jan 23. At the time airport staff said they had reason to believe there was an airline that might start service that would qualify.

Golly gee, a little over a week later ExpressJet announces routes to 2 cities from FAT. Both routes meet the minimum level in the new policy, which means as written they qualified for an incentive for each of the 2 new routes.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 14):
4 currently - Frontier, American, Allegiant, and Mexicana.

I thought that US/HP started mainline to LAS. Did they stop this flight?

Like you said FATFlyer, I can now see AA flying the routes of FAT-ORD rather then UA. A lot of people here in the Central Valley fly on AA to DFW so would make sense to keep those people on their product to ORD.

The new DL is just amazing. I was just talking to my dad about it and he said, "Lets get ready to book tickets then". Any idea when this service will start? By the way, will this be the biggest aircraft (commercial) to enter into service right now at FAT? (would be comparied to the A320 I believe).

Congrats to FAT and I am looking forward to more flights to here  Smile
Don't Tread On Me!
 
yvr1968
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:55 am

What happened to the seasonal 4x/weekly ATL-YYC flights DL has last summer?

Does anyone know if they are going to be reinstated this summer?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 23):
I thought that US/HP started mainline to LAS. Did they stop this flight?

They were operating 1 mainline and 1 CRJ. They switched a few months back to a CR9 on both frequencies.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 23):
Any idea when this service will start?

The first time the inbound flight shows in the schedule is June 8. The first departure is June 9.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
stapleton
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:09 am

BZN - ATL seems to be doing quite well for DL. They started last winter with once weekly and expanded to twice weekly (Christmas saw three times weekly) and as mentioned before, last summer was only twice weekly. Apparently, ATL is in the top five O/D markets out of BZN which would explain why this Montana city is doing well from ATL. BZN tends to be a very different market than the other Montana cities with a much more midwest and east coast orientation. The airport web site www.gallatinfield.com shows a very surprising amount of service for an airport their size. They are showing non-stop service to SEA, BOI, SLC, DEN, MSP, ORD, ATL, DTW. My friend was there once this winter and he said they had on the ground at one time a DL 757, Delta Connection CRJ-900, Two United Express CRJ-700s, Northwest A320 and a Horizon Air Q400. He said it looked to him like there were more flights than gates.

It doesn't appear the YYC - ATL will be returning this summer. Does Calgary have much in common with the S.E. USA?

The GEG - ATL might do very well since GEG doesn't have a lot of service east of DEN (UA to ORD is about the only service) and GEG is about the same size market at BOI. It seems that GEG might be underserved to the east but I don't know what kind of O/D traffic they have to that region.

FAT - ATL will be interesting to watch. Its good to see AA have some competition to the southeast. Hopefully it will do well.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 26):
FAT - ATL will be interesting to watch. Its good to see AA have some competition to the southeast. Hopefully it will do well.

You never know until its tried how something will do but I have high hopes for this one.

FAT-ATL runs about 60-70 passengers per day. Connections on FAT-MCO about 40-50/day. Add in a few other US and International cities and DL starts with a good chance of seeing a successful new route.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
stapleton
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:54 am

FATFlyer - With those numbers and Delta's experience through SLC, I would agree with you on the potential of success, especially in the summer. On another note, how's Frontier doing on their once daily mainline FAT - DEN. It would appear to me that they are giving up on the higher yield business traveler and going more for the leisure traveler with only one flight per day or are they just waiting for more equipment?

[Edited 2007-02-11 18:06:46]
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 28):
FATFlyer - With those numbers and Delta's experience through SLC, I would agree with you on the potential of success, especially in the summer. On another note, how's Frontier doing on their once daily mainline FAT - DEN. It would appear to me that they are giving up on the higher yield business traveler and going more for the leisure traveler with only one flight per day or are they just waiting for more equipment?

That is a good question and one that I have also pondered alone and with mariner.

I thought the single mainline flight would be a slow season move only but so far there is no indication of a return to a 2/day flight schedule.

Also FAT and SNA are the only single destination cities for F9 in California, the others have gained flights to Mexico or flights like SFO-LAS. SNA is understandable due to the slots and may not change anytime. But Fresno sits there differently.

I haven't seen any recent LFs for Frontier at Fresno. The first 11 months of 2006 I believe Frontier was running about 73 or 74% LFs. The F9 system wide average typically runs about that also. Yields would be the unknown.

So I still wonder what Frontier is planning for their future in Fresno.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
stapleton
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:41 am

I guess the good news is that it is a mainline flight and not just one flight on one of the regional jets. They have been dropping down to one regional jet per day to Billings during the winter for a couple of years now but I see this spring they will go to 2/day, then 3/day for the summer and it is looking like 2/day the rest of the year now. So, it appears they aren't afraid to drop down to 1/day for awhile and stay in the market and with FAT getting the mainline flight, it appears to me they have some room to maneuver. Do they handle their own flights in FAT or does someone else handle them?
 
whatusaid
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:53 pm

The DL announcement is a big one, no doubt. And, while I too was thinking of an ORD announcement, ATL should do just fine. FAT O&D numbers really never tell the story due to the drive away factor, thus we may very well see FAT-ATL mirror AA's overloaded FAT-DFW from day one. I just can't see FAT not filling that -800. Frankly, there's a need for something more to the East, other than going through PHX, SLC, and DEN, which all too often represent the first of two connections to your final East Coast destination, ATL might just do that.

As to ORD, I don't see UA stepping up. UA seems very happy doing nothing more that having Skywest run a few RJ's in and out with less than ideal schedules and packing the 120s to LA and SF for "take a chance" connections. A classic case of airline abuse, but, for those who know UA and Fresno, that's how life has been for decades now. AA - that could be interesting and given the DFW runs are decent money markers for AA, that could happen. Maybe the City could find a few more DOT dollars?

I'd also take a B6 redeye to JFK.

Amazing times at FAT. A couple years ago, I never thought it possible. Now, anything looks to be possible, except for WN.

Anyone hear if USAirways bringing back the 319 to LAS this summer?

...and I see Horizon looks to have posted their summer schedule. No added frequencies. So, standing room only this year? Maybe, we try some fold-down chairs in the center isle?
 
yow
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:45 am

Will BUR-ATL be returning this summer?

Is the full DL summer sked loaded yet?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:57 am

The FAT-ATL flights now show online both at OAG and Skyguide.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 31):
Amazing times at FAT. A couple years ago, I never thought it possible. Now, anything looks to be possible, except for WN.

I've been saying on here for the last couple of years that it was only a matter of time before the airline industry started seeing what the retail industry found in Fresno the last few years.

Once we started seeing things like a free-standing Coach handbag store, Pottery Barn, etc. and restaurants around Fresno that can have $80-100 per plate menus and still stay in business there had to be a market the airlines were missing.

I liked the comment in the paper the other day from the owner of a new upscale women's clothing store, that 1/2 her customers in Carmel were Valley residents visiting their second homes or staying in nearby hotels.

More of a market here than many realize.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 33):
Once we started seeing things like a free-standing Coach handbag store, Pottery Barn, etc. and restaurants around Fresno that can have $80-100 per plate menus and still stay in business there had to be a market the airlines were missing.

Was just on the news today talking about these stores coming into Fresno and the plans for Fresno's growth in the retail industry. I saw it on Fox News 26. With the plans they showed, I can deffinatly see airlines coming in for this because of the fact us Fresnans spend money period. Look at our loads to Las Vegas haha. If we dont spend it here, we lose it in Vegas. I can only see more things happening in Fresno with the likes of ORD.

Can't wait to get on a flight to ATL here soon. By the way FATFlyer, I will try to get my Aunt to take a few pics for me on her flight to Alabama in July. She has miles with Delta and said she will fly on it just for me  Smile
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FAT5DEP
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:22 am

Wow! It has been 9 years since Delta sent its last flight out of FAT. I remember loading that last flight to RNO. It was sad watching that MD-90 swing back around and do a flyby, rocking its wings. I recall the loads to SLC on a 727 were always high so it was rather strange when they left. I heard the same thing about UA when they left in '93. My brother worked the ticket counter at the time and those DEN flights had high loads as well.

This is great news that Delta is coming back. Perhaps I'll pull out my old Delta jacket that I kept. I had great memories working the ramp in the '90's.

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 463 File size: 63kb


Big version: Width: 640 Height: 464 File size: 62kb


I'm looking forward to seeing 737's back in FAT.
Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:34 am

It looks like ATL/GEG was pulled from the schedule this week. Anybody know why?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:54 am

Today's newspaper had a front page article on the flights. All the TV news broadcasts have also carried the news.
http://www.fresnobee.com/263/story/29987.html

I like the graphic in the article about the FAT-ATL flights.
http://www.fresnobee.com/static/2007/business/021507Delta.pdf
It shows all destinations out of FAT that will be operating by June, including DL to ATL and XJT to ONT and SAN. But it points out something to me.

There are now flights beyond the western hubs from FAT to DFW and ATL, basically the southern US hubs. FAT now needs flights to a hub in the northern US midwest.

ORD or MSP would probably make sense, there is already lots of O&D to those cities, let alone connecting traffic. ORD, MSP, and New York City are the only cities in Fresno's top 10 domestic destinations by passenger count not being flown.

AA, UA, and NW are you noticing????
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 36):
It looks like ATL/GEG was pulled from the schedule this week. Anybody know why?

Interesting, but FAT-ATL flights are still in there.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 37):
FAT now needs flights to a hub in the northern US midwest.

I agree. ORD would be nice in my opinion operated by UA but AA is the most likely. Also, if DL does really good on this route, will they keep it past the 4 months? And also, do you think that DL would start service from JFK-FAT to start service with another 737-800?

Next airline into FAT, NWBig grin
Don't Tread On Me!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 39):
Also, if DL does really good on this route, will they keep it past the 4 months? And also, do you think that DL would start service from JFK-FAT to start service with another 737-800?

It would probably have to do exceptional to continue the rest of this year. But as long as it does well it would stand a good chance of daily next year. I compare it to BOI which is now daily for the summer but still not year round.

JFK-FAT would be many, many years down the road. Well unless JetBlue is looking for another west coast destination.  Wink

I think one or more out of ORD, MSP and IAH make the most sense for FAT in the next few years. Then its a matter of building frequency and equipment size on the routes.

Internationally, I will not be surprised to hear another south of the border destination this year. Very likely an inland city BUT I also think a coastal resort city like SJD or PVR is possible.

My eyes and ears have been perking up about some things I've seen and heard lately about Mexican vacation cities being discussed by some airlines and I would not be surprised to hear FAT is on the short list.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
xpfg
Posts: 570
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:17 pm

RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:08 am

FATFlyer,
Couple of points and questions for you. Firstly, awesome news about DL coming to FAT mainline style! I'll be flying that route a couple of times, I'm sure!

Further questioning though...one thing I have always noticed about FAT is that the prices are quite high in some markets, and others not so much. Not so sure what to gauge this ATL flight as being, and that probably because as an airline employee, I non-rev. However, I notice that the cheaper fare pre-tax as of now is $397/rt. I'm sure it would fluctuate by connections though. I've seen and heard of quite a few people use MOD as an alternative to FAT that are FROM the FAT area due to MOD prices being cheaper, especially with the LAX connection. Do you think this may hurt the SLC market in any way? I'm sure they thought of this prior to committing to ATL service, but just want your opinion.

Second, with valley service increasing these days, would it not make sense for MOD to get LAS service? Even a once daily on an EMB-120...I'm sure it would fill. I can't even tell you how many times I've been in the MOD terminal and heard people asking or calling with regards to LAS service. If not OO, what about some XJet service to somewhere? The 3rd most popular destination that I have found at this time is ONT, however, that may be a little overkill for MOD. But, LAS, not so much.

And lastly, where are you getting your numbers for connecting passengers and where they go? Not bashing, only curious for myself to look at what other airports may have.  Smile

Thanks!
 
stirling
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 37):
I like the graphic in the article about the FAT-ATL flights

Is it just me....or does the 737 graphic in the lower right-hand corner look like it has a "bulge" on top of the forward fuselage???
It looks like a mini-747! (And no, I don't drink!!!)
 Smile
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stirling
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 40):
I think one or more out of ORD, MSP and IAH make the most sense for FAT in the next few years.

With ORD and MSP being in the top 10 O/D markets out of FAT, hopefully it will be sooner than the "next few years". However, things have been going in the positive direction for FAT of late, cannot expect the world to change overnight!

Quoting Xpfg (Reply 41):
Second, with valley service increasing these days, would it not make sense for MOD to get LAS service? Even a once daily on an EMB-120...I'm sure it would fill.

I have no doubt if the people of Modesto know about it, they would use it. The only problem is that damn runway in MOD! The City/County needs to condemn the property off the northwest edge of the airport and extend the runway. I don't mean to sound cold, but its probably some of the bleakest real-estate in the City....
If they could just squeeze another 1,000ft out of the land they have....things would be much different.

It was almost 20 years ago, when one of the Presidential candidates came to town...it was a 737-200. Now those birds in campaign service are light-weight. It was summer, the temperature was in the high 90s/lower 100s. When they were done with their campaign stop, they couldn't leave, because there wasn't enough runway. They had to wait until the Delta Breeze kicked in and cooled the place off.
(I am for the life trying to remember who it was....I seem to remember it was like a Presidential 737, Dole? I know it wasn't a Bush, the convention hadn't happened yet.)
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FATFlyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting Xpfg (Reply 41):
Second, with valley service increasing these days, would it not make sense for MOD to get LAS service

Allegiant at SCK and USAirExpress at MCE probably makes MOD-LAS a little less likely these days. What are SCK and MOD about 30 miles apart and Merced and Modesto about 35 miles.

Quoting Xpfg (Reply 41):
I've seen and heard of quite a few people use MOD as an alternative to FAT that are FROM the FAT area due to MOD prices being cheaper, especially with the LAX connection.

Actually I've heard it the other way around, people from Modesto going to Fresno instead of MOD or even SMF and OAK.

Quoting Xpfg (Reply 41):
Do you think this may hurt the SLC market in any way? I'm sure they thought of this prior to committing to ATL service, but just want your opinion.

Actually no I don't think it will hurt. Flights last summer out of FAT were running full causing some people to go to Southern California or the Bay Area for flights.

Load factors for all airlines out of FAT last summer averaged 85 to 90%. DL to SLC ran at 90% monthly averages while AA to DFW was running 96 to 98% monthly average load factors. I think the added capacity was sorely needed.

Quoting Xpfg (Reply 41):
And lastly, where are you getting your numbers for connecting passengers and where they go? Not bashing, only curious for myself to look at what other airports may have.

I use several places to get numbers. The DOT consumer air fare reports, T-100s etc for routes. FAT's monthly stat reports for load factors at the airport.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
Posts: 458
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:04 pm

Problem with Fresno, per F9 and I've heard the same from AA, is yield. Not enough full fare biz travel as compared to SMF. That, I think, is an unfair comparison, given the business base 180 miles up the road as compared to Fresno. SMF is years ahead of Fresno. But, as FATFlyer notes, the economy here is changing - dramatically so - and that should open up some possibilities. I know at one time, QX couldn't figure out how a city with metro population of close to a million could have such seasonal traffic, but that was the reality five or six years ago before the paradigm shift. But, I certainly don't expect to see United make a move in this market, which they own in terms of market share, but tend to ignore. But, as noted earlier, there is a major gap into the upper Mid-west and the O&D to ORD and MSP certainly suggest there's a market there for someone.

As to expansion to Mexico, I'm hearing the same, that a second trip to Mexico is in the works, but not GDL, but it would be with MX. The city wanted something to the beach resorts, but I'm thinking something into the northern half of interior Mexico is more likely. The success of MX in Fresno is based upon the travel to/fr certain states in Mexico due to migration over the years. That, I think, is the clue to the next route to Mexico.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4473
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 45):
As to expansion to Mexico, I'm hearing the same, that a second trip to Mexico is in the works, but not GDL, but it would be with MX. The city wanted something to the beach resorts, but I'm thinking something into the northern half of interior Mexico is more likely. The success of MX in Fresno is based upon the travel to/fr certain states in Mexico due to migration over the years. That, I think, is the clue to the next route to Mexico.

Except we have 2 other airlines at FAT that might be looking at Mexico.

Frontier's addition of SJD from SMF and SJC among other moves from California could mean an interest in Fresno to Mexico from F9.

Also, I have now heard from several different sources that Allegiant has been exploring possible Mexico routes. It would be nice to see them start one out of FAT, their original city.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 44):
Actually no I don't think it will hurt. Flights last summer out of FAT were running full causing some people to go to Southern California or the Bay Area for flights.

Here are the average loads for this last summer:

Allegiant Airlines (G4): 75.3% Aircraft operated: MD-87 to LAS
American Eagle (MQ): 80.3% Aircraft operated: Saab 340B to LAX
United Airlines Express (OO): 83.7% Aircraft operated: EMB 120ER to LAX, SFO, LAS & CRJ-200LR to DEN
US Airways (US): 83.8% Aircraft operated: A319 to LAS
Horizon Airlines (QX): 85.2% Aircraft operated: CRJ-700 to PDX & SEA
Frontier Airlines (F9): 85.4% Aircraft operated: CRJ-700 to DEN (operated by Horizon Airlines)
Mexicana Airlines (MX): 85.9% Aircraft operated: A318 to GDL
America West Express (YV): 86.2% Aircraft operated: CRJ-900 to LAS & PHX
Delta Connection (OO): 87.3% Aircraft operated: CRJ-200 to SLC
American Airlines (AA): 92.7% Aircraft operated: MD-83 to DFW

So as you can see, the load factors are really nice for these airlines during the summer months. The only airline lacking is G4 but what can you expect? You have 3 other airlines operating to LAS. G4 does have the cheap fares for such a short flight. But I get my miles on HP Big grin

As for OO for Delta Connection, their load factors are #2 out of FAT. I do not expect there to be a huge drop in load factors with them. Useually when you travel over seas with DL, the get you on a code share with MQ to LAX and then hop over to ATL with DL and then to your final destination. Some people do pay to go threw SLC though.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
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RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:03 pm

Hi!

Well, well, well.....FAT again on the "top of the news"!!! I'm very happy with this, FAT looks to me one of the best emergent markets comming from USA. With DL flying from ATL to FAT that will start bringing more people from the East USA. That's a good move indeed....and maybe on my next planned trip to FAT I will use DL.
QXatFAT, great statistitcs those regarding percentages of the regular flights. When I flew from LAX to FAT, UA6051 that left LAX at 07:57 the EMB120 was full!!! And looking to other airlines that have numbers above 80% that's impressive....very good!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: DL Summer Schedule Shows FAT/BZN/GEG - ATL

Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:06 pm

Any word yet on whether or not BUR-ATL will be returning this summer?

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