kstateinALB
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Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:47 am

The title says it all really. Is there any possibility of an increase of WN presence in cities such as PVD, MHT, ALB, or ISP? They have done well in these cities before, and was wondering if they will increase in these cities in the future.
ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
 
COERJ145
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:39 am

I'm hoping they'll start MHT-PHX and PHX-LAS.
 
atrude777
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 1):
PHX-LAS.

PHX-LAS?  Silly

There is a MHT-LAS..but no MHT-PHX.....

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
DL777LAX
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 1):
PHX-LAS.

if you meant PVD-LAS, which I'm assuming you are, they already fly that one too.
Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
 
COERJ145
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:42 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 2):
PHX-LAS?

whoops! typo. I meant PVD-LAS, but to my surprise they already fly this.
 
atrude777
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 4):
whoops! typo. I meant PVD-LAS, but to my surprise they already fly this.

Ya only 9 WN cities do not have this service non stop, RSW, HRL, CRP, FLL, JAX, JAN, DAL, DTW, and PBI.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
georgiabill
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:55 pm

Personally I would like to see WN add MHT service to PHX,DEN,RDU, FLL or RSW. But realistically I can see MHT PHX or MHT DEN being a viable new route for 2007
 
LV
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):
Ya only 9 WN cities do not have this service non stop, RSW,

I think WN could start RSW-LAS and make a fair amount off of it. There are a lot of people between Lee/ Collier/ Charlotte counties that make the trip to the desert. Do it once a day and it will fill with good yield.
 
iowaman
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:44 pm

FLL-LAS would work well also. Other than DAL it's the largest WN station without N/S service to LAS, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it by summer '08. LAS-MCO went non-stop last fall, so maybe FLL is next.
 
PVD757
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:57 am

I'm hoping for PVD to STL, PBI, DEN, and/or RDU. I'd say there is a fair to good chance PVD gets 1 of those in 2007...
 
georgiabill
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:31 am

On a side note, I am surprised that WN has not chosen to connect IAD with ALB,BDL,PVD ,ISP or MHT. IN MHT case not sure how big the market would be but perhaps shifting one or 2 BWI to IAD might work.
 
dolphinflyer
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:45 am

ALB-PHL and ALB-PHX would be great adds. Since WN is gaining a few gates at PHL, that might be a good possibility.
 
ScottB
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 10):
On a side note, I am surprised that WN has not chosen to connect IAD with ALB,BDL,PVD ,ISP or MHT. IN MHT case not sure how big the market would be but perhaps shifting one or 2 BWI to IAD might work.

I agree, but I don't see WN starting any of those markets to IAD (and throw in BUF for good measure) with fewer than four daily round-trips, given that they'd need to have at least four or five flights each way to be competitive in terms of frequency. Perhaps you'd see one or two flights moved from BWI, but then again, there's a reason WN goes 12x BWI-PVD and 11x BWI-MHT. If WN were to build up PIT more, I could certainly see PIT-MHT, PIT-PVD, and PIT-ISP happening.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:13 am

I'm encouraged that MHT will receive three new flights from Southwest: One each to MCO (5), PHL (6), and MDW (5). PHL/MCO start next month; MDW starts in May.

MHT-PHX is the one we've all been waiting for, and quite frankly I'd have expected that long before any of the ones we WILL get. But that's where we're at.

Since we were the only New England station to gain new flights in these last go-arounds, I'd expect us to now get no more for awhile. Southwest will probably drop one or two flights into PVD, although I'm not sure whether the bloom is off the rose at BDL. I would be absolutely SHOCKED if MHT got yet another new flight the next time Southwest unveils new flights/routes. To a huge degree, deliveries from Boeing serve as a catalyst for new routes & how many.

Chris
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:19 am

Cities that PVD could support n/s on WN:

STL
HOU
PIT
RDU
JAX
PBI
LAX
ORF
CMH
IND
IAD
DEN

Each of those average over 150 daily O&D pax, many of those have well over 200, and good connecting/through flight opportunities.

Seems like WN is PVD's only hope for growth these days, until someone else can come in and kick up some competition.

My primary fear is the "Islip Effect" Where the more marketshare WN gains, the more the other carriers shrink. Competing services have been obliterated at ISP, and also, since WN passed 50% at MHT, offerings from other airlines decreased as well.....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 13):
Southwest will probably drop one or two flights into PVD,

care to explain that reasoning, lets not forget MHT's gain of three, is a net increase of one flight since they dropped MHT-BNA 2x last year
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 15):
care to explain that reasoning

Simply that MHT got three new flights and PVD got zero. I was suggesting that it was time for PVD to 'get something' from WN. Stands to reason, although in our case none were new routes...they were all additions to existing ones. So while your list of new cities looks appealing, it would be in keeping with recent Southwest strategy to add to existing markets rather than debut new ones. Like I said, the flow of planes from Boeing is key.

And the losses of MHT-BNA (2x) and PVD-ISP (at least 4x) are water over the dam, so to speak.

Chris
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:07 am

Well your word "drop" probably isnt the best choice of word to use!

I agree, they will probably ADD 1-2 flights, which is what i assume you meant.

I also agree, that list of cities will be pretty much lost on WN. Best chances for a new city are IAD, STL, PIT or RDU
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PVD757
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:14 am

by "drop...into," I think he means they will ADD...

some of the cities on the list have a bit less than the 150 O&D. I usually look at markets from PVD that average above 90 pax each way for (65% LF) locals and figure another 15-20% LF would connect onward. If a city won't offer any connecting opportunities, then I'd go with 85% LF or about 116 each way.

my list would be:

FLL (553)
RSW (336)
LAX (290 O&D)
SAN (277)
IAD (244)
PIT (243)
PBI (238)
DTW (214)
RDU (209)
JAX (197)

there are certain markets that have suppressed demand (due to lack of PVD nonstop and BOS nonstop available) that WN could grow enough with nonstop service:

ORF (163)
DEN (129)
IND (128)
CMH (126)
STL (125)
 
kstateinALB
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:37 am

Well, I think ALB can have sufficient service to these airports and I think WN can make it work...

PHL- compete with US, and can probably make a good amount by dropping the price down
IAD- compte with UA, would work if theres the right price
PHX- 141 daily passengers makes this flight doable with either WN or US
DEN- Has over 160 daily passengers, maybe once a day would work
FLL-about 200 daily passengers, again once a day would be good
ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:58 am

Yes, sorry. Poor choice of words on my part! I simply should have said 'ADD.' But I think it's time for Southwest to ADD a few flights at PVD. I have a gut feeling that Southwest is more bullish on PVD/MHT than on BDL.

Chris
 
N200WN
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 11):
ALB-PHL and ALB-PHX would be great adds



Quoting KstateinALB (Reply 19):
Well, I think ALB can have sufficient service to these airports and I think WN can make it work...

PHL- compete with US, and can probably make a good amount by dropping the price down

I don't think ALB-PHL would be so successful, especially given that BDL-PHL was just dropped.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:36 am

Do people agree that BDL is the weak link in Southwest's New England operation? Is it the competition? Weaker-than-expected response from the public?
 
iowaman
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 18):
my list would be:

FLL (553)
RSW (336)
LAX (290 O&D)
SAN (277)
IAD (244)
PIT (243)
PBI (238)
DTW (214)
RDU (209)
JAX (197)

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but the only one that has a chance of happening on that list is FLL. All of those others are either transcon flights, or smaller WN stations with not enough O&D to PVD to bother with. There are several WN city pairs I can think of out there that dont have n/s service on WN that are over 400 pax per day.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:20 pm

I agree it is more of a "wish list" posted there, but i can see potentially places like STL, PIT, or IAD possible in the near term. LAS PHX and MDW could also get additional frequencies.

With transcons there needs to be a 110% chance of good yeilds and loads during mid weeks days to get them these days with the cost of fuel.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
kstateinALB
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RE: Any Possibility Of WN Increasing Service In N.E?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 21):
don't think ALB-PHL would be so successful

The one reason as to why it might be successful is the fact that they can lower prices on the route and take many passengers from US and bring them to WN. PHL is somewhat of a big market here, and by coming in, WN can make US have to fight for PHL.
ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,

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