jmc757
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 3:36 am

Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 3:02 am

Does re-starting an airline ever work? In my opinion it does not.
Lets take a look:

Laker - Once a GIANT, then they had problems and disappeared. In 1996 (not many people know this), Freddie Laker restarted, flying DC10s from Manchester (and maybe Gatwick) to America. In 1997 this airline went bust !
DID NOT WORK

Branniff - look how many times he has restarted! Did not work!

PanAm - A household name! Went bust, now they are revived, but a crappy little airline with a few old knackered 727's, come on, not really 'succesful'!

Caledonian - British caledonian got into trouble. BA bought them and merged them with british Airtours and called it caledonian Airways (not BCal)This was used them as their Charter operation. they then sold them. caledonian were a crappy little charter airline with an AWFUL reputation. Now they are JMC.

I could go on for ever, so does it work??? Are there any examples of it working ? what are your views?
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 3:16 am

For all intents and purposes, Continental "restarted", and is working quite well. No, they didn't go out of business, but they did file bankruptcy a few times and finally got the leadership they needed to turn things around.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 3:27 am

Pan Am isn't what the old PA was, but they're still flying- and profitably. I guess that's a form of success. It doesn't happen overnight.

I agree that it's near impossible to restart an airline and have it match its former glory. We'll see how much weight the Pan Am name actually carries.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 7:46 am

It can work, as was said Continential while continually trading, was in fact relaunched when the origional was shut down. Frontier was relaunched and has been very successful. National was relaunched and is already making money. Even Ryanair was relaunched in 1991 after the origional was shut. The jury is out on Pan Am, but they are backed by railroad owning oil barrons.

Laker shot himself in the foot by promising the earth in terms of service and due to unavailable planes delivering huge delays and charter confiq. Tristars. If they'd have been less ambitious with their start up timetable they'd still be around, again it was that particular managements fault, not the fact it was a relaunch as such. Caledonian was only a rebranding of British Airtours (Nothing to do with Airtours) who has always been a crappy little company.

I think with so many start ups failing it's not unsurprising so many relaunches go bust, but I see no evidence so suggest there's anything more or less than that going on, especially as some do succeed.
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 9:39 am

Don't forget National and Frontier, two revived names that have had success.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 10:00 am

National and Frontier bear no relation to the original airlines, they're just good names that were purchased by start-ups from the receivers.

I agree, if an airline goes bust it's usually cos they were disliked and a NAME CHANGE (a la ValuJet / Air Tran) is a better move. Pan Am 2 I think suffered because of the perceptions by the public of the original PA.

There are other re-starts that have been successful - World Airways all but shut down, but came back and has found a profitable niche with freight and ACMI passenger wet-lease charters (ACMI - Aircraft Crew Maintenance Insurance).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 10:01 am

How about Midway?
 
Guest

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 10:04 am

Isn't Air Tran a restart of Value Jet, or am I thinking of another airline?
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Sat Jul 22, 2000 10:17 am

I think Cedarjet said it perfectly, only he specifically pointed at two airlines: Frontier and National. He said that those are airlines that bear no relation to the original. Well infact 9 out of 10 don't have any relation with the original. Does anyone think PanAm has anything to do with the Juan Trippe PanAm. No! The new PanAm is owned by Guilford Transportation, a railway contractor from Billrica, MA. The older PanAm was started by a man whose name I forget at the moment, Martin Shrugg (I think). Oh well. He passed on less than a year after his PanAm collapsed of a brain haemorrhage.

Anyways, someone mentioned Midway. The original Midway was based in Chicago and flew a decrepit fleet of 737s, DC-9s, and MD-80's. The new Midway is based in Raleigh, NC, and has a modern fleet of CRJ's, F100's and. 737-700's.

So my point is, most of these "reincarnations" have no direct links with the original airlines. Most of the time the name is owned by the dead airlines creditors, and in the case of National, the sum went into the PanAm retirees fund.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Mon Jul 24, 2000 2:23 pm

PA 2 and PA 3 are totally different owners than PA ! (as said above). Air Tran and Valujet was a merger, with Valujet purchasing Air Tran and taking the latter's name. (that is how they got a fleet of 50 DC-9 {Valujet} and 10 or so 737-200s {Air Tran}).

Midway was a true restart. After the first one failed. They tried again at MDW, but SW, arrived, and the CEOs saw no chance at survival with that kind of competition. So they downsized from DC-9s/MD-80s to the CRJ and Fokkers and moved to RDU where they had success (yippie!!!)

Just think about the guy who purchased the Branniff name this time (the one who tried to start an all smoking airline). I want to see about his success out there.

Even TransPacific Airlines might be a restart, but only the original airline that has that name is still operating...as Aloha Airlines.

P.S. LH423, I was thinking the same thing.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7563
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Mon Jul 24, 2000 2:38 pm

Interesting sidebar about Frontier... so the myth goes that many displaced former Continental/old Frontier people in Denver now hold key positions at the new Frontier b/c of their knowledge of the Denver market and their experience with Continental and the old Frontier.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
AmericanKing
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 2:52 pm

RE: Does Re-starting An Airline Ever Work?

Mon Jul 24, 2000 2:38 pm

I think that some "Re-start, and Start-up" Airlines work and do not always work. Like take Legend Airlines, they are a start up and they are beating the crud out of American   :-( I live out by Love Field and I go out to DFW a lot, and take Ozark Airlines they are doing great out of DFW and are hurting the same routes that American and American Eagle fly.

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