LawnDart
Topic Author
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DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:00 am

Delta Continues Expansion in Los Angeles With New Nonstop Flights to Seattle and Los Mochis, Mexico

New flights are part of new balance of domestic and international flights as airline continues to grow presence at Los Angeles International Airport

Once daily on each segment, service provided by ASA...

Alaska Airlines must be quaking...  Wink
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:05 am

Actualy LAX-Los Mochis is only twice per week (Wed/Sat) effective June 2nd.

LAX-SEA starts June 7th

Both operate on ASA CRJs.

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/070212/113597.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N1120A
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
LAX-SEA starts June 7th

Both operate on ASA CRJs.

What in the world do they think they are doing? This is going to start a blood bath between them and UA and AS which both fly much larger, lower CASM equipment.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
BigGSFO
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
LAX-SEA starts June 7th

Both operate on ASA CRJs.

LAX-SEA on an RJ? Well alrighty then.
 
alaska737
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:18 am

Is DL trying to directly compete with AS????

we have DL announcing LAX-SEA and LAX-ANC, both of which are AS routes.

Plus LAX-SEA has a number of airlines already operating it like: AS, UA, and WN. I dont know about UA and WN, but AS opperates a lot of flights between the two cities, dont know how another flight will do. Perhaps now is time for AS to begin some flights to SLC and ATL.

SEA-ATL
SEA-SLC
PDX-SLC (Horizon)
BOI-SLC (Horizon)

I would have to think that these routes would be profitable.
 
COERJ145
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:20 am

2.5 hrs in a CRJ-200?  yuck 
 
Bicoastal
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):
LAX-SEA on an RJ? Well alrighty then.

Other west coast routes with RJs include Air Canada San Diego to Vancouver and United Express LAX to Vancouver. So it's not all that unusual.
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copaair737
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:21 am

Where is Los Mochis?

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
SESGDL
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:38 am

What's next, LAX-PDX; LAX-BOI perhaps? CRJ-700 service would have been more understandable on LAX-SEA, and maybe 2x daily instead on once. Maybe they intend on building the market up a little before adding additional flights on the route. Good luck to them though, can't wait to see more routes opened from places other than ATL and JFK that are mainline though...  Smile

Jeremy
 
lax44
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:39 am

That's RJs now to OAK/SFO/LAS/SMF/RNO (starts in March)/SEA plus all their Mexican service. Good luck DL.
 
Evan767
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 5):
2.5 hrs in a CRJ-200?

Ughh, I know the feeling brotha. I had to put up with an ERJ from IAH-BFL on CO! That was pure hell! 4 hours!!!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Evan767
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 8):
LAX-PDX

I would say this has a pretty good chance of happening. Other routes that might happen IMO: MEX, SJO, PHX, DFW, DEN. Those are my guesses. Heck, let's go ahead and throw in LIH, shall we?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 11):
. Other routes that might happen IMO: MEX, SJO, PHX, DFW, DEN.

MEX can't happen. They don't have the route authority nor can they obtain it.
a.
 
as739x
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 7):

Its about 100 miles NW of Culiacan,mx.


Delta is getting desperate for route here

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
nwray
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:53 am

Just out of curiosity, are the RJs being used because that is the type of demand they expect, or because it is the type of equipment they have available?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 4):
Perhaps now is time for AS to begin some flights to SLC and ATL.

AS code shares virtually all SEA-SLC flights with DL.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
What in the world do they think they are doing? This is going to start a blood bath between them and UA and AS which both fly much larger, lower CASM equipment.

My thoughts entirely. Once upon a time, Western Airlines was considered the only way to fly from LAX. Western had a substantial customer base in Southern California and was #2 behind UA to Hawaii. After the DL merger in 1987, the DL presence at LAX was squandered and piddled away by two successive regimes in management who knew nothing about network planning, and what Grinstein's and Garrett's ideas really were behind that merger 2 decades ago. While a success on the equipment commonality and labor fronts, it was a disaster with respects to network planning. The DL market share in the west enjoyed by Western was slowly handed over to UA (& AA to a lesser extent) on a silver platter due to ineptitude by management under Ronald W. Allen and Leo Mullin. Under Grinstein, DL has attempted to regain some of what they had, and re-establish some old loyalties, something not easily done after such a long time. The jury will be out for some time on to how well this idea is going to work. SLC-SEA is consistently in the top five O&D routes from SLC, so perhaps this can at least bring some relief to this one since flights are almost always over-booked.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
whatusaid
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:01 pm

Yes but Sea and the others....this is all about the feed to Mexico.

Culican and Los Mochis are big ag centers that suggest DL could add a MRY-LAX or FAT-LAX feed for their Mexican routes next. Not for Mexican nationals, per se, rather the ag industry that commutes from a number of West Coast cities into Mexico each week, especially during the winter months when much of California agriculture moves to West Mexico.

It's an interesting experiment. Experiment meaning just that....
 
BigGSFO
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 15):
AS code shares virtually all SEA-SLC flights with DL.

Well perhaps we'll see AS enter the SEA-SLC market.
 
zsx81
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:12 pm

Ok LAX- LMM pricing at Delta.com

From $228.20 round trip


This is not bad. Guess i got a summer vac to plan.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:14 pm

So who will ride on these RJ's between LAX and SEA?

The flight is loaded on DL's system. Arriving in LAX at 0955 and the return flight leaving LAX at 1805.

Connections to Mexico and limited S. American desitnations?
SkyMiles redeptions?
Die hard SkyMiles participants?

Hawaii misconnects as currently scheduled.
Connections to ATL, CVG and SLC could only help non-revs.

Has DL ran out of places to feed traffic at their hubs of ATL, SLC, CVG and JFK?

All this flight will do is add more traffic for ATC to deal with at LAX.

[Edited 2007-02-13 04:14:44]
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77411
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:23 pm

I am sure it is an experiment as well as a stop gap measure. DL has said it wants to expand LAX but they currently do not have the equipment to do so. As a result DL will use ASA to fly routes on their behalf to at least say they are trying to use the gates at LAX to their fullest. If some of these routes succeed and that may be a big if, I am sure DL metal will take the routes over. If DL loses the gates they will be lost for good which will kill future expansion plans.
 
as739x
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 17):

I doubt Alaska will even react to this flight. It will not effect AS in any way.

On June 7th:
DL= 50 seats daily/ 1 flight
AS= 1568 seats daily /12 daily

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 16):
fter the DL merger in 1987, the DL presence at LAX was squandered and piddled away by two successive regimes in management who knew nothing about network planning,

Talk about network planning, let's look at Western before and after deregulation. Before deregulation Western's route planning mostly consisted of Point-to-point operations in the west. After derregulation ALL airlines except Western immediately dropped many routes and added routes into a hub that they built.

I saw maps of carriers routes a couple of years after deregulation showing deleted and added routes since deregulation. All other airlines' maps showed deleted routes that were fragemented and added routes into one or more hubs.

With Western, the deleted and added maps both looked the same - fragmented routes without any apparent network planning. It took a couple more years until Western found out that they should hub at SLC and realize that they couldn't plan on making money from MSP-PHX on a one-stop when NW and others started flying it non-stop. They lost precious time is which they could have hubbed LAX more effectively.
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alexinwa
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:31 pm

I think this is interesting as DL did nothing to keep what Western built between SEA-LAX back in the day. LAX (SoCal) is the 2nd biggest O/D out of SEA. It doesn't surprise me that DL wants a piece of it, but even UA is struggling to keep up.

Back in the day, PSA, United, Western, Alaska,...etc all did this non-stop. DL kept 5x daily till about the mis 90's I think. Slowly faded to nothing.

UA once ran 737 and 727 every hour.

Now......AS is the 600lb gorilla (13x or 14x to LAX alone) and UA barely keeps up with 4x daily. And not to mention the 737-500 is the bird of choice. I always thought SEA-LAX non-stop is a route WN should look at as they have no SEA to SoCal non-stop service.
You mad Bro???
 
rwsea
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 4):
Plus LAX-SEA has a number of airlines already operating it like: AS, UA, and WN.

WN does not fly SEA-LAX. The farthest south they go from SEA is SJC/OAK.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 16):
Yes but Sea and the others....this is all about the feed to Mexico.

Right. Probably just a utilization turn, and to feed Mexico service. We'll see how it works out though - SEA doesn't have as much demand to Mexico as other cities on the West Coast.
 
HVNandrew
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:44 pm

DL really wants to get back into the LAX market. They could either start a full scale buildup, and take MD88s/738s off of proven routes, and throw them into new markets out of LAX against UA and WN, or they could do what they're doing now, and try to build slowly with RJs up against other carriers' mainlines. Tough decision for DL, but probably the right one. At least try to establish themselves in the market, and wait to get some new a/c.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
It took a couple more years until Western found out that they should hub at SLC and realize that they couldn't plan on making money from MSP-PHX on a one-stop when NW and others started flying it non-stop. They lost precious time is which they could have hubbed LAX more effectively.

SLC had a central location that LAX could not offer, and no UA, CO or original F9 to compete with as at DEN. It was 1982 that Western really got SLC started as a major hub, but like LAX, DL really didn't utilize it until a couple of years ago.
DEN wanted to get DL to move their hub from SLC when the DIA facility opened, but not wanting to go head on with UA, DL declined and CO bolted DEN as well. Many have speculated however that as recently as 2003 that with UA's future in considerable doubt that DL would up and move the SLC hub to DEN if UA was forced to liquidate. In fact many sources (not very high up however) within DL have told me that the original plan was to close both DFW and SLC and move to DEN. Much of the original planning of DIA centered around gaining back what DEN lost when Western decided to hub at SLC instead of DEN back in 1982, when all they could offer was the Stapleton facility that was more utilized than what it was originally planned for, and lacked the runway configuration to be the super-hub DIA was intended to be.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
WesternA318
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
It took a couple more years until Western found out that they should hub at SLC and realize that they couldn't plan on making money from MSP-PHX on a one-stop when NW and others started flying it non-stop. They lost precious time is which they could have hubbed LAX more effectively.

They started building up the hub in around 1982 or so, and by 1986, I believe plans were to move the HQ to SLC.
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alaska737
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 24):
WN does not fly SEA-LAX. The farthest south they go from SEA is SJC/OAK.

true but they do offer direct flights to LAX, i believe it stops in SAC, RNO or OAK...I know that they dont offer non-stop service but people still fly on WN to LAX because of their low fares. But i did think they flew N/S farther south than SJO, dont they fly N/S to LAS, MCI or someplace in Texas???
 
alexinwa
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:26 pm

WN does non-stop SEA-LAS/PHX/ABQ/MCI/MDW/BNA

Just saying that I would think non-stop SEA-LAX would be a great addition out of SEA.

Although since the whole BFI joke of jokes, i'm sure WN is very careful in adding to SEA. Hell.....GEG has seen more added flights lately than SEA.
You mad Bro???
 
FATFlyer
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 16):
Los Mochis are big ag centers that suggest DL could add a MRY-LAX or FAT-LAX feed for their Mexican routes next.

I'd agree. Los Mochis is big for cotton and tomatoes along with other crops. All big in the Fresno and Monterey areas.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 5):
2.5 hrs in a CRJ-200?

I remember when HP express used to use the CRJ-200 from BIL-PHX. It was not cool
Good goes around!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:45 pm

LAX-SEA on a CRJ-200. Really??? Well we can add this to the list of flights ill never take. They need an MD-88 on this at least. Quite frankly DL is setting themselves up to get burned on this one. LAX could use a build up, but they cant expect much from CRJ on a longer route like this. I for one am a big proponent of DL's build up at LAX, but cmon, a CRJ from LAX-SEA??? I think if they would put MD-88's on them instead, they would see better results.
It is what it is...
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:54 pm

I figured LAX-SEA would pop up at some point with their continuing LAX expansion, but I'm really surprised to see that they're only throwing a CRJ at the route. There's more than enough seats in the market for a 737/MD88 on that route. Perhaps they're testing the waters...competition with AS and UA is likely to get pretty hot come june.
 
md90fan
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:55 pm

It's becoming really obvious that Delta has abundance of CRJs  Silly

How do they really think they can compete in the swamped LAX market with uneconomical 50 seat regional jets? Unless the flight is purely existing for connecting passengers.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 19):
So who will ride on these RJ's between LAX and SEA?

Probably connecting passengers and people trying to earn DL miles.
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asqx
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 24):
Right. Probably just a utilization turn, and to feed Mexico service. We'll see how it works out though - SEA doesn't have as much demand to Mexico as other cities on the West Coast.

Certainly not as much as say LA but there are a good number of migrant workers, especially from the farm fields of eastern Washington that travel back to Mexico via Seattle, somewhere around 50 or so a night on average on the Alaska flights to Mexico City and Guadalajara
 
milesrich
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:10 pm

Grinstein may want to reestablish Delta at LAX but offering CRJ-200 flights to SEA is not the way to do it. Who in their right mind would choose to take such a flight, if the reason was not to qualify for some Medallion level, or if the fare is cheap, and cheap fares and Canadair aircraft do not go together. If Delta wants to reestablish themselves at LAX, three flights a day with MD-88/90 or 737 aircraft might work, but the real problem here is Delta has nothing to offer between the 142 seat MD-88 and the CRJ (70 seater). The crazy thing is, what if the flight was successful, how could they ever build a presence with 50 seats in the market. When they introduced service between Moline, IL (MLI) and ATL, a route pioneered by AirTran who served it then and still does with 3 717's daily, at least Delta began with 3 CRJ flights a day, and that flight is scheduled at close to 2 hours but only usually takes about 1:15 in the air. The distance between LAX and SEA is almost 400 miles longer, and that is just too far to fly in a CRJ. Are you sure Leo Mullin is not still running Delta? (Just a joke). His idea was to monopolize Atlanta and give away every other route Delta had. I remember when he abandoned Toledo and Ft Wayne, two old time Delta cities with high yields, so he could use the aircraft to compete with AirTran between MDW and ATL. What a schmuck!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:18 pm

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 36):
Are you sure Leo Mullin is not still running Delta? (Just a joke). His idea was to monopolize Atlanta and give away every other route Delta had. I remember when he abandoned Toledo and Ft Wayne, two old time Delta cities with high yields, so he could use the aircraft to compete with AirTran between MDW and ATL. What a schmuck!

Mullin is the one that screwed LAX up along with Ronald W. Allen more than any two successive CEO's ever could with one carrier  irked  !

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 27):
and by 1986, I believe plans were to move the HQ to SLC.

There was talk of this happening, but I don't think it ever went beyond that since the DL merger came into play about that time. I think it would have been an eventuality without the DL merger, or to Denver.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
IPFreely
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 10):
Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 5):
2.5 hrs in a CRJ-200?

Ughh, I know the feeling brotha. I had to put up with an ERJ from IAH-BFL on CO! That was pure hell! 4 hours!!!

Would not be most people's choice. I flew a United Express CRJ from Edmonton to Chicago about a year ago. It got pretty uncomfortable after the first hour, and it was nearly a four hour flight across two time zones and an international border. Kind of makes one question the term REGIONAL jet.  Smile
 
iowaman
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:05 pm

Wow. I think I'll pass on a CRJ-200 flying LAX-SEA.

Interestingly enough, LAX-LAS is going from 2x CR1 to 2x CR7 March 1st. Appears to have great loads (yields are another story).
 
S12PPL
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 4):
Plus LAX-SEA has a number of airlines already operating it like: AS, UA, and WN

WN does not fly any non stop service between the pacific NW and LA. All service on WN is direct, or connecting.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
WesternA318
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 37):
There was talk of this happening, but I don't think it ever went beyond that since the DL merger came into play about that time.

They built a building in SLC slated for HQ, but the deal with DL came shortly after development and construction started, then Delta cancelled the obligations and the building is now the Benficial tower?? It sits right atop the old Crossroads Plaza.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 41):
They built a building in SLC slated for HQ, but the deal with DL came shortly after development and construction started, then Delta cancelled the obligations and the building is now the Benficial tower?? It sits right atop the old Crossroads Plaza.

That is the old Commercial Security Bank tower that sits above Crossroads Plaza. the Beneficial Life tower sits over the old ZCMI Center Mall over on the State Street side. Right as the DL/Western Transaction was unfolding Key Bank Corporation took over Commercial Security Bank and the tower went to Key Corp in 1988. Interestingly the Crossroads Plaza Mall is slated now for demolition along with this tower as part of the new City Creek Center. They also are planning a new tower for this location that will actually exceed the LDS (Mormon) Church Office tower in height. Something no one here in SLC ever expected to happen! Perhaps Gerry could call Zion's Securities and say he wants to lease some downtown office space and move DL to SLC! Having DL as the tallest in SLC would be an understatement now wouldn't it?  biggrin 
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
N1120A
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:47 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 39):
Interestingly enough, LAX-LAS is going from 2x CR1 to 2x CR7 March 1st. Appears to have great loads (yields are another story).

More abject stupidity. LAS is a profitable market if you fly the right sized aircraft, which means 735 and up. Running a CRJ, even a -700, means you have lower service levels and less chance at profitability.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
WesternA318
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 42):
Having DL as the tallest in SLC would be an understatement now wouldn't it?

LMAO, just look at the "Landfill" on the corner of 300 West and South Temple..
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gunsontheroof
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 39):
Wow. I think I'll pass on a CRJ-200 flying LAX-SEA.

Given the business traffic on the route, I'm a bit surprised to see DL making this equipment selection. I'm putting my money on an equipment upgrade before the end of the summer.
 
WesternA318
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 45):
I'm putting my money on an equipment upgrade before the end of the summer

*puts $5 down....MD-88/-90 or 737-800? I'd go with the 738..*  bigthumbsup 
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socalatc
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 34):
Probably connecting passengers and people trying to earn DL miles

You can earn DL miles flying on AS. Ill take the MD/737 any day.
 
as739x
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 45):

DL will not be getting business traffic on this flight. Biz pax want flexibility, hence airlines going for frequency. 1 CRJ south in the morning and 1 northbound at night will not cut it. Not with AS/UA offering multiple flights. This is purely to fill these Mx. flights.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: DL LAX-SEA

Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 48):

DL will not be getting business traffic on this flight. Biz pax want flexibility, hence airlines going for frequency. 1 CRJ south in the morning and 1 northbound at night will not cut it. Not with AS/UA offering multiple flights. This is purely to fill these Mx. flights.

That was my point. Eventually, DL is going to want a share of the biz traffic between LAX and SEA, which will require them to upgrade their equipment on the existing route or add an additional frequency with mainline metal. I seriously doubt that DL is going to leave the LAX-SEA business market to AS and UA, especially when they have reasonably strong followings in both cities.

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