CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:36 am

Nevermind the low-yields, and lets just suspend disbelief as regards year-round traffic levels, but what if I wanted to serve LGW-HNL non-stop for example? Assume i've got massive travel company backing and a five year commitment to block sell 50% of my seats to a number of travel operators, and some lucrative bellyhold contracts of affreightment in place for a similar period.

Could the 744/A346/77W do it year round non-stop? Would I need an A345 or 772LR instead?

What kind of flight time would that be, about fifteen hours?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:50 am

I know UA and CO have done HNL-FRA for charters. Both airlines went non-stop. So it is possible, just is it feasible.
You can't cure stupid
 
KLMyank
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:05 am

Well, it is 6300 NM, slightly less than ORD-HKG and definitely less than EWR-HKG. So possible year round with a 772 or 744. Maybe payload restricted, am not a tech boffin.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:14 am

Caribbean and Mexico holidays were unheard of 20 years ago, longer flight but anythings possible. There used to be a travel agent in the LGW area, Jet something or other, that promoted Hawaii as a holiday destination.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
PanAm747
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:39 am

It can be done - I'd advise setting up ANC as your alternate, as HNL-LHR is 6289 nm, whereas HNL-ANC is 2413 nm and ANC-LHR is 3901 nm, for a total of 6314 nm, or just 25 nm further than the non-stop. That's where you'd probably want to divert to in cases of necessity.

Possible, yes. Probable, no. Too many European airlines can give you a one-stop with their American partner via ORD, EWR, SFO, LAX, and so on. Low yield, plus the fact that most Europeans seeking the sun will stick to the Mediterranean rather than a VERY long plane trip. Yes, some will go, but not the large numbers needed to make a route work.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Cory6188
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Too many European airlines can give you a one-stop with their American partner via ORD, EWR, SFO, LAX, and so on.

Not only that, but nearly all of the US carriers can give you a one-stop all on the same airline. CO through EWR/IAH, AA/UA through ORD, DL through ATL, and NW/KL through DTW all come to mind as easy ways to get to Hawaii with only one stop in the US when coming from Europe.
 
COEI2007
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:24 am

I remember reading FCA was interested in starting West Coast and Hawaii charters, once their 787's arrive
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:20 am

What about Papeete - LGW non-stop - Possible year round without payload restrictions with an A345?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
David_itl
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:08 am

When HA operated their charters (1988?) to LGW/MAN, where did they stop off?

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 3):
Caribbean and Mexico holidays were unheard of 20 years

Then the Airtours travel agency introduced weekly holiday from £299 return (or something like that) using "Trans Jamaican Airlines" and "International Carribbean" which I believe were 747s operated by Lionair (which was failrly short-lived subsidiary of Cargolux)
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:10 am

Western Airlines flew Honolulu-Anchorage-London Gatwick scheduled flights, with DC-10-30s, for about a year in 1979/1980.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:13 am

UA used the 744 and we used the 772 for our charters.
You can't cure stupid
 
COEI2007
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 10):
UA used the 744 and we used the 772 for our charters.

Do we have many charters, just out of curiosity? I didnt think there was enough slack in the utilisation of the 77 fleet, to fit in a charter?
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:23 am

There was a post in another thread about how LH used to operate HNL-FRA nonstop in the early 1990s a couple of times week with A340s.
 
koruman
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:54 am

It's not just theoretically possible, but it's actually under investigation at the moment, and not just for low-yield London-Honolulu traffic..

Air New Zealand currently flies Auckland-London Heathrow via both Hong Kong and Los Angeles, but timezones, feeds and curfews mean that flights via both HKG and LAX have to leave Auckland at night and London in the afternoon.

Air NZ knows that the LHR-AKL market justified one daily 747-400 in 2000, two by 2007 and will justify three flights by 2009-10. But increased frequency really would fit best with offering flights at different times of the day, and that is where Honolulu may have a role, because it would allow departures to be much better spaced around the clock.

NZ 10 Dep AKL 1045 Arr HNL 2030-1. Dep HNL 2200-1 Arr LHR 2200.
NZ 9 Dep LHR 2359 Arr HNL 0400. Dep HNL 0600 Arr AKL 1400+2.

This model allows domestic feed in Auckland for the outward flight and from across the UK and Europe for the return departure from London.

The idea would be to fill the Business Premier and Premium Economy sections of the 777-200LR (which Air NZ has options for) with passengers flying all the way between Auckland and London - and the late departure from London allows such passengers to do a full day's business, whereas the Hong Kong and LA-transiting flights make them wait around until the following afternoon . The economy section would be half-filled with passengers flying all the way NZ-UK, but also half-filled with Kiwi and British tourists flying to Hawaii.

Air NZ still has a station and lounge at Honolulu, but is down from daily to twice weekly flights now that Trans-Pacific jets don't need to stop to refuel.

There are currently three Air NZ contingency plans for how Honolulu services can be made more viable than the current low-yield tourist traffic. One is to extend AKL-HNL on to Vancouver, one is to extend it to London and the third is to abandon Honolulu to the LCC subsidiary Freedom Air.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 11):
Do we have many charters, just out of curiosity? I didnt think there was enough slack in the utilisation of the 77 fleet, to fit in a charter?

They were military charters.
You can't cure stupid
 
gte439u
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:07 am

Thank you Koruman for your intriguing post!

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
Air NZ knows that the LHR-AKL market justified one daily 747-400 in 2000, two by 2007 and will justify three flights by 2009-10. But increased frequency really would fit best with offering flights at different times of the day, and that is where Honolulu may have a role, because it would allow departures to be much better spaced around the clock.

NZ 10 Dep AKL 1045 Arr HNL 2030-1. Dep HNL 2200-1 Arr LHR 2200.
NZ 9 Dep LHR 2359 Arr HNL 0400. Dep HNL 0600 Arr AKL 1400+2.

First, would the two hour turn around time in LHR conflict with night curfew if the flight is even slightly delayed?

Secondly, would NZ consider ANC as a transit point rather than HNL? AKL-ANC is 6124 nm. A possible advantage of ANC is that transit passengers are permitted to disembark without passing through US immigration formalities. Of course, HNL has a long NZ presence, and there is added efficiency in NZ already having the data on the HNL-AKL market.
 
LAXintl
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
Arr LHR 2200



Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
NZ 9 Dep LHR 2359

Guess someone forgot about the Heathrow night time restrictions.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
but also half-filled with Kiwi and British tourists flying to Hawaii.

Tourism to Hawaii from Europe is a pittance, and is actually on the decline.

For instance in 2005, of 7.5 million visitors barely 100,000 were from Europe which was an annual decline of 2.3% while their average spending declined 6.6%.

Of the visitors 55% were on package holidays, with wedding and honeymoon travel as number one reason for visits. Per capita European visitors had the 2nd lowest average daily spending only beating out Canadians.


While I can see Air NZ looking at options of serving the UK more, thinking Hawaii will provide anything other than rock bottom tourist traffic is living in a fantasy.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
koruman
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:49 am

The decline is simply because there are no longer 1 stop flights now that 747-400s can cross the Pacific non-stop.

The point is that a third LHR-AKL flight has to stop somewhere to refuel, and the only place in the existing NZ network which could allow well-spaced flights which would not have curfew or feed problems is Honolulu, which also happens to address the problem of the failing AKL-HNL flight just as the extension to London salvaged AKL-HKG.

And yes, everyone knows that HNL is a low-yield destination. But only the passengers in the back would be flying TO Honolulu, the premium passengers would be just refuelling there.
 
Iloveboeing
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 15):
First, would the two hour turn around time in LHR conflict with night curfew if the flight is even slightly delayed?

Maybe NZ could replace its 744s with 748s and then the night curfew at LHR wouldn't be an issue. I believe the GENX engines meet the noise regulations.
 
Chugach
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 15):

Secondly, would NZ consider ANC as a transit point rather than HNL? AKL-ANC is 6124 nm. A possible advantage of ANC is that transit passengers are permitted to disembark without passing through US immigration formalities. Of course, HNL has a long NZ presence, and there is added efficiency in NZ already having the data on the HNL-AKL market.

ANC might make sense purely from a transit standpoint, but NZ can carry tourist traffic to Hawaii by flying that proposed route through HNL. I live in Anchorage and love it to death here, but the day NZ touches down at Uncle Ted International with regularly scheduled AKL-ANC nonstop, I will dive butt-naked into the Arctic Ocean.
GO ROCKETS
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:48 am

I will dive butt-naked into the Arctic Ocean.

Quoted from Chugach, post 19

If that happens, prepare for an audience. I'd buy a full fare.  

[Edited 2007-02-14 03:50:54]
You can't cure stupid
 
HALFA
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting David_itl (Reply 8):
When HA operated their charters (1988?) to LGW/MAN, where did they stop off?

Oh the memories. HA operated charter flights from HNL to both Stansted and Manchester. The flights were operated with L-1011's and DC-8's with fuel stops in both Seattle, and Frobisher Bay NWT, Canada, and yes, you had the years correct also 88/89.
During the same time period, HA flew charters from Zurich and Frankfurt to HNL with a fuel stop in ANC, utilizing our DC-8's.
In addition, when I was hired with HA back in 1985, we were flying charters from SFO to both LGW and ORY with fuel stops in Gander, Newfoundland, using our L-1011's.
It is my belief that with the addition of more long haul aircraft into the skies in the coming decade, nonstop service from HNL to Europe will not be a question of if but when. Low yield or not, it is inevitable.
Everyone is assuming that all passengers on these flights will be originating in Europe. People forget that there are MANY wealthy people in Hawaii that would love to get on a nonstop flight to Europe.


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HALFA
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koruman
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:46 pm

Absolutely, HALFA. I'm a strong advocate of Air NZ extending AKL-HNL to London, because AKL-HNL never used to be a low-yield route when it was AKL-HNL-LAX(-LHR), it just became low-yield when the HNL-LAX connector went and rich Hawaiians stopped flying Air NZ to Europe, and rich Europeans stopped taking a Hawaii stopover en route to Australia or New Zealand.

Honolulu was and is a great airport for high-yield carriers to use as a long-haul refuel point / stopover option, it's just a trainwreck when it's viewed as a stand-alone destination.

Laxintl has misunderstood the data showing figures for Europeans visiting Hawaii. Of course the number and spending has declined, but simply because it's no longer a do-able stopover on the way Down Under like it used to be. The affluent Europeans stop at Dubai now because that is what is on offer as a single stop en route to Australia or New Zealand, but they would be just as likely to choose Honolulu if it was on offer as the single stop. (Dubai markets itself well, but if you lived in chilly London and had a choice between a 5 day stopover in unbearable heat in Iraq's neighbourhood, or 5 days by the beach in Hawaii which would you choose? I would wager that a very large proportion would go for Hawaii, just as they used to when it was last a competitive stopover 20 years ago).

I remember as a boy in London my first visit to Honolulu was on an Air NZ itinerary 25 years ago whereby the flights went LAX-PPT-RAR-AKL and AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX. We perceived it as a great bonus to get an online stopover at HNL. Today we'd probably have flown LHR-LAX-AKL, but if we could fly back AKL-HNL-LHR we probably would.


Honolulu's role as a transit and stopover point has basically been usurped by Dubai and Singapore, and both of those destinations do very well with rich long-haul passengers breaking a long journey there for a few days.

[Edited 2007-02-14 04:50:46]
 
stirling
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
Tourism to Hawaii from Europe is a pittance, and is actually on the decline.



Quoting Koruman (Reply 17):
The decline is simply because there are no longer 1 stop flights now that 747-400s can cross the Pacific non-stop.

In the very old days, (As late as 1976) PanAm flew daily from London to Honolulu,
2-Stops,
Via SEA and PDX with a 707.
Delete this User
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 17):
The point is that a third LHR-AKL flight has to stop somewhere to refuel, and the only place in the existing NZ network which could allow well-spaced flights which would not have curfew or feed problems is Honolulu, which also happens to address the problem of the failing AKL-HNL flight just as the extension to London salvaged AKL-HKG.

I agree with that. I'm interested to see what NZ will do with HNL, from whats been said on here in the past, HNL-YVR was a bloodbath in the past when NZ did it, so I wonder if that will be any different today? But yes AKL-HNL-LHR would certainly be interesting.
 
krist0f
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:01 pm

I remember last year I flew BRU-LHR-SFO-OGG.. that was a pretty long trip (30+ hours with layovers). I would've loved to have been able to fly non-stop (or at least direct) from one of the major European airports across to the Hawaiian islands! But this'll probably not happen except the sporadic charter services which may appear seasonally from time to time!
 
planemanofnz
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
one is to extend it to London

I didn't think NZ had a plan or had even considered doing this! It would be a smart idea though.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
the third is to abandon Honolulu to the LCC subsidiary Freedom Air.

Doubt it. If anything, JQ will step in and fly the route with their 330's.

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 15):
Secondly, would NZ consider ANC as a transit point rather than HNL?

No and two reasons why :

1.) Little or non-existent local traffic AKL-ANC and ANC-LON. The reason NZ's LHR services work are because of the local traffic that LAX and HKG provide.
2.) NZ's 772's are restricted by range to ANC and I think by ETOPS also, but I could be wrong. A HNL stop is more likely than a ANC one IMO.
 
Chugach
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 26):
2.) NZ's 772's are restricted by range to ANC and I think by ETOPS also, but I could be wrong. A HNL stop is more likely than a ANC one IMO.

ETOPS wouldn't be an issue on AKL-ANC. If you look at the great circle mapper, basically the most direct flight path goes close to Hawaii and then north. It's a long flight (over 7,000 miles), but a long-range aircraft could pull it off.

Agreed, however, that HNL would be far more likely. While there is some ANC-London traffic, especially in summer, traffic would be non-existent on ANC-AKL. HNL would just make more sense if it's possible from a tech standpoint.
GO ROCKETS
 
RichardJF
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:41 pm

I like the idea. NZ has it's own natural market to the UK and doesn't need to pitch the HNL-London sector against the charter operators particularly. So very little risk. Also likely to be very popular with Hawaiians. Good to develop with uncertainties of the future. Never know, may see SQ set up a low cost long haul in response to Air Asia X. Good just to fly NZ's own specific markets direct to the UK . NZ's asia routes only struggle because of no feed to S Am. But existing north/south touring routes with AKL/CHC make S Am impossible imo. Have to change the set up.
 
SFORunner
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 13):
There are currently three Air NZ contingency plans for how Honolulu services can be made more viable than the current low-yield tourist traffic. One is to extend AKL-HNL on to Vancouver, one is to extend it to London and the third is to abandon Honolulu to the LCC subsidiary Freedom Air.

Heck, let's completely hijack this thread and throw AKL - YVR - LHR into the ring, why don't we?

1) SYD-based pax could fly to YVR and completely bypass the USA by connecting in AKL. Currently, YVR bound pax from SYD have their choice of one-stop flights on UA (via SFO / LAX), QF (via SFO), and AC (via HNL). In the future, they may have a one-stop option on AC (via LAX).

2) NZ also serves the next two largest population centers in OZ: MEL and BNE.

3) Canada-based PAX can fly to NZ and completely bypass the USA.

4) Star Alliance partner AC would be able to feed/receive connecting pax to/from NZ's flight via its YVR hub.

5) A well-timed arrival by NZ into YVR would allow connection into AC's existing YVR - LHR flights.
 
A342
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 23):
In the very old days, (As late as 1976) PanAm flew daily from London to Honolulu,
2-Stops,
Via SEA and PDX with a 707.

They stopped in both SEA and PDX on the very same flight ? Now that doesn't make sense !
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
justplanecrazy
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:00 am

strange only today i decided i would do a non stop flight between EGLL-PHNL on my Level D B763 i should just have enough fuel in the tanks and now i'm reading a topic about it.I'll be asleep half of the flight.
your pilots today on this 747 flight are captain oliver hardy and assisting will be FO stan laurel.Have a safe flight
 
N593HA
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:15 am

I'm honestly hoping for the day that HA will order the 787 and than start non-stop flights ex HNL to Europe.

Frequency wise I could imagine 4x weekly flights to LGW and also 4x weekly to AMS with connections to/from KL's european network.
I can imagine that travellers would like transfer rather at AMS than at an airport in the United States.

With HA already code-sharing with Skyteam members NW and CO (ok, on Inter-Island flights only), I see a partnership with KL well in range.

Having flown from Germany to Hawaii a couple of times and continuing so in the future I would like to, one day fly the whole trip on HA (ok, from CGN to AMS on KL!).

I remember in summer 2005 flying back from HNL to CGN, it was a great combination to first fly from HNL to SFO on HA with one of their 777-style interiors and than on the next day to fly on one of KL's 772ER's on to AMS. Both were excellent flights with excellent crews.

Aloha
N593HA
Next trip: KL+NW to HNL
 
koruman
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:41 am

I'm sorry, but I can't see O+D HNL-LGW or HNL-AMS flights, not ever.

Hawaii in its own right is a very low-yield market. The 60s to the late 80s showed that when HNL is a fuel stop between two high yield ports (eg Sydney to Los Angeles, Auckland to London) it can be viable, but Hawaii-Europe as a stand-alone service is just crazy.

Hawaiian would get virtually the same fares for London Gatwick to Honolulu as it does for Pago Pago or Papeete to Honolulu, but costs would be about five times as great.

If Hawaiian coordinated AKL-HNL and SYD-HNL services to feed into HNL-LGW and HNL-FRA they could possibly compete on SYD/AKL-LGW and SYD/AKL-FRA if they adopted an LCC-type model, with one-stop fares Australia-UK set at say US$1500 in Economy and $4000 in Business Class.

But that is a low-yield flight, and I can't see how it would be worth their while. They would be scraping the bottom of the low-yield market, competing with Korean Air and Air China for the passengers ambitious airlines don't want.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 30):
They stopped in both SEA and PDX on the very same flight ? Now that doesn't make sense !

To the best of my memory PA used different aircraft on the SEA-LHR and SEA-PDX-HNL routes in those days. I flew a PA 707 HNL-PDX-SEA once in April 1970 and am quite sure it terminated in SEA and did not continue to LHR. I forget whether it may have connected with the SEA-LHR 707 which, as I recall, used the aircraft that arrived the same day from LHR. If not mistaken, the 707 used on the SEA-HNL-SEA route (with a stop in PDX a few days a week) overnighted in SEA.

In later years after the 747 replaced the 707 on PA's SEA-LHR route, the flights usually turned around in SEA but there were certain periods when SEA was an intermediate stop on a SFO-SEA-LHR routing. PA also used the L1011-500 on the SEA-LHR route but only for a year or so. I also recall one SEA-LHR flight on a 747SP but it may have been an aircraft substitution that day.
 
HBJZA
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
What about Papeete - LGW non-stop - Possible year round without payload restrictions with an A345?

According to great circle mapper, the CDG-PPT run has 400 km more than the EWR-SIN run !!! So it's probably doable. Wonder why AF hasn't started it yet ???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 35):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
What about Papeete - LGW non-stop - Possible year round without payload restrictions with an A345?

According to great circle mapper, the CDG-PPT run has 400 km more than the EWR-SIN run !!! So it's probably doable. Wonder why AF hasn't started it yet ???

Probably because they dont have A345s or 777LRs?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Nevermind the low-yields, and lets just suspend disbelief as regards year-round traffic levels,

To everyone trying to tell me it wont happen, please refer to the above from my original post.

This thread was about Can It Be Done, and with what aircraft type?

I *know* yields would be poor and traffic levels questionable - I just want to know what aircraft type I would need to do it!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
EDICHC
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
plus the fact that most Europeans seeking the sun will stick to the Mediterranean rather than a VERY long plane trip. Yes, some will go, but not the large numbers needed to make a route work.

Well I tend to disagree, the trend in my old home of Scotland and the UK as whole has been very much an increase in long-haul destinations at the expense of the Med. 25 years ago the numbers travelling to the likes of MCO were very small, now look at the numbers especially if you include the Sanford charters. Given the right marketing I could see a (possibly seasonal) LGW-HNL charter being quite succesful.
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RE: UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop?

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 29):
Heck, let's completely hijack this thread and throw AKL - YVR - LHR into the ring, why don't we?

1) SYD-based pax could fly to YVR and completely bypass the USA by connecting in AKL. Currently, YVR bound pax from SYD have their choice of one-stop flights on UA (via SFO / LAX), QF (via SFO), and AC (via HNL). In the future, they may have a one-stop option on AC (via LAX).

2) NZ also serves the next two largest population centers in OZ: MEL and BNE.

3) Canada-based PAX can fly to NZ and completely bypass the USA.

4) Star Alliance partner AC would be able to feed/receive connecting pax to/from NZ's flight via its YVR hub.

5) A well-timed arrival by NZ into YVR would allow connection into AC's existing YVR - LHR flights.

I agree with SFORunner and think that a one stop in YVR rather than HNL with service onto LHR would be a better option. Rather than feed into AC's flights to LHR, NZ could continue on to LHR thereby enhancing Star Alliance's competition with BA on the route. Since AC and NZ's inflight service (I'm talking seats and IFE) will be similar, you could see AC and NZ doing a codeshare on flights from YVR to LHR, with passengers having the option of a stopover in YVR (like SQ does in Singapore) and then passengers could continue on to their destination. This way NZ passengers could also be transferred to the LH flight to Frankfurt, with YVR serving as a Star hub to the South Pacific and Europe (in addition to its traditional role as a hub for North America and Northern Asia).
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