LAXintl
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WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:05 am

WestJet Considers Expanding Transborder Destinations
Aviation Daily
02/15/2007

WestJet could start flights to transborder business destinations within the next year or two, but the airline's management believes the carrier need to strengthen U.S. point of sales and create the right number of frequencies in those markets.

The airline flies to 12 U.S. and international cities, and yesterday President Sean Durfy told analysts that currently WestJet serves only sun destinations. "We haven't even cracked the business market in the U.S.," he said. About 22% of WestJet's overall capacity in the fourth quarter of last year was in transborder markets.

Durfy acknowledged WestJet's challenge in bolstering its point of sales in the U.S. Currently, those numbers are 9%-11%, compared with a 50-50 split on some of its Canadian domestic flights, such as Calgary-Toronto. But Durfy declared that WestJet's flights to U.S. business destinations are an "absolute event" and would probably occur in a year or two.



Full story:
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...xpanding+Transborder+Destinations+
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
commavia
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:15 am

If WestJet is serious about possibly joining oneworld, and linking up more closely with AA down the road, they are going to have to get serious about linking nonstop to larger, more important business destinations. They already fly YYC-LAX from western Canada, although schedules may have to be adjusted in the future to smooth onward connections with hypothetical oneworld partners, and I could also definitely see them getting into markets like YVR- and YEG-LAX. I could also see them entering larger eastern markets down the road like YUL-LGA or YOW-MIA, where its lower costs coupled with the higher revenue-generating power of an AA codeshare could be successful. In addition, I think that low-cost/strong-revenue combo and a strong AA codeshare could definitely make WestJet competitive in some markets out of Chicago -- particularly linking AA's second largest hub with cities like Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg.

We shall see ...
 
eraugrad02
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:40 am

I bet RDU is one to compete against AC.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:42 am

YUL-NYC is so overserved..I think YYC-DFW and YYZ-ORD/LGA would be good starts with the AA code
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:04 am

Even cities not dominated by OneWorld or Star Alliance like an SLC would offer WS all sorts of possibilities. DL has yet to make good on a promise to return mainline service on SLC-YYC, and SLC-YEG. These are routes WS could come in and take many frequent DL business customers, and except for a brief try at SLC-YYZ last year, AC has virtually ignored SLC for trans-border possibilities, leaving DL to dominate this one.
While AS understands that Canada despite its vast geographical distances, only has a very limited domestic market being home to only 33 million people (smaller than California), and that serious money for a Canadian based airline is truly made via trans-border operations.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
LAXintl
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
I could also definitely see them getting into markets like YVR- and YEG-LAX.

WestJet already has tried daily YVR-LAX and YYZ-LAX service with a speedy withdrawal from both.

Self admittedly in the article WJ has pretty poor name recognition and US point of sale which definately hurts its efforts when going up against the Air Canada's, United, Alaska's of the world.
Its leisure routes have worked as they primarily serve the Canadian consumer and do not rely much on US residents.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 4):
Even cities not dominated by OneWorld or Star Alliance like an SLC would offer WS all sorts of possibilities. DL has yet to make good on a promise to return mainline service on SLC-YYC, and SLC-YEG.

The local SLC-YYC market is something like 10 passengers and YEG is probably like 6
 
drerx7
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:42 am

YYC-IAH, Or Edmonton to Houston would be good markets. Could Canada flights fly into Hobby since there is no FIS there? YYC-HOU would be a good route if aimed at the business flyer.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
dhefty
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:28 am

Since WestJet has only 7 remaining deliveries on backlog with Boeing, it seems highly likely that a new major 737 order will be announced this year. It could be as many as 25-50 based on their announced growth plans.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...ageid=m25062&RequestTimeout=100000

In the past four years, their deliveries have been averaging around 1 per month.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...ageid=m25062&RequestTimeout=100000

It looks like WestJet is planning to be flying as much north-south as they do east-west.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 4):
While AS understands that Canada despite its vast geographical distances, only has a very limited domestic market being home to only 33 million people (smaller than California), and that serious money for a Canadian based airline is truly made via trans-border operations.


[Edited 2007-02-17 23:28:54]
 
Salomon
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:40 am

Here is another interesting article to read.

Quoting G&M:
WestJet Airlines Ltd. is only kicking tires now, but you can add the popular Boeing 787 Dreamliner to the carrier's list of long-term strategic options.

If the airline were to either buy or lease Boeing 787s, overseas destinations could conceivably be added by 2013.
Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 7):
YYC-IAH, Or Edmonton to Houston would be good markets

Does CO still fly IAH-YEG. I think they might have stopped it. If so Im not sure Westjet would do well in YEG-IAH. Maybe YYC-IAH would be better.
It is what it is...
 
flyb
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:56 am

IAH-YEG with CO was dropped, it was not because of low demand though that it was dropped. The demand is there business people like myself do not like the 12:15 arrival into YEG, and then 1:00am departure back to IAH that they had.
 
toltommy
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:12 pm

I think joining oneworld is the wrong path for Westjet. I think working more closely with Frontier and Airtran would have better financial impact. A biz class cabin is not a necessity, and Westjet would not have to upgrade to a much more expensive res system. Sooner or late the LCC's are going to have to start joining in some way. They can get the benefits from codesharing without having to spend the big bucks to join a major alliance.
 
LGA777
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:56 pm

Westjet served LGA back in 2005 and ended service mainly because of in WS's view undesirable slot times. I believe they departed at 1220 and 1620, making a day business trip from YYZ not desirable.


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But at the time LGA-YYZ was served by AC, AA, WS, Canjet, and Jetsgo. At that time most of AC's flights where 319,320's. But today is much different. Canjet and Jetsgo are gone, and while some AC flights are still Airbus many are E-175 and 190, plus one Jazz CRJ-705. On weekends even some Jazz CRJ-200's serve the route. While some might disagree I believe even with all AC's and AA's frequncies this route is slightly underserved. I believe WS would probably be more sucessful on a second try, although the possible entry of Porter in this market could be interesting, although EWR is more likely due to lack of customs at LGA and preclearance at YTZ. Just my two cents.

Regards

LGA777
 
steeler83
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:21 pm

Any PA cities, besides PHL? PIT only has AC and US service to YYZ.. and on turboprops. I am more into transatlantic service returning though, even if everyone says it will never come back. That is them saying that. I toot my own frigging horn, and I have my own thoughts, hopes, beliefs, etc...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 6):
The local SLC-YYC market is something like 10 passengers and YEG is probably like 6

Then please explain why they pack virtually full 4 CRJs from YYC and 2 of them from YEG? While many of the passengers to YVR are connecting, they fill 2 CRJs and one 738 per day flown on this route.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
skyzheimers
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:48 pm

I think you're making a great point 'TOLtommy'... Frontier and Westjet would make excellent partners! WS could feed into F9 at SFO with connections to LAX and LAS for example making those flights more sustainable and never mind the many connections available at DEN especially to Floridian and Mexican vacation spots...  bigthumbsup 
 
connector4you
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
business destinations are an "absolute event" and would probably occur in a year or two.


First, will cost them some doe to reconfigure and fit an entire fleet of Boeings with business seats. Remember, they launched as a low-cost so one class configuration (leather though !) Clearly WestJet would love to join an alliance "yesterday", unfortunately . . . they lack the "business class" prerequisite. Nothing else than cheap talk meant to keep WJ on commercial aviation headlines.
 
accargo
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 17):
Nothing else than cheap talk meant to keep WJ on commercial aviation headlines.

Exactly. Just smoke and mirrors from Durfy. They will have difficulty joining an alliance without a new res system, and they just dumped the one they were working on in the trash to the tune of $37 million loss. When I see them start a MASSIVE ad campaign south of the border then I might think they are getting serious.

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 13):
Canjet and Jetsgo are gone, and while some AC flights are still Airbus many are E-175 and 190, plus one Jazz CRJ-705. On weekends even some Jazz CRJ-200's serve the route. While some might disagree I believe even with all AC's and AA's frequncies this route is slightly underserved.

AC put Embraers on that route and is filling them, the 319's and 320's weren't always full. I highly doubt there is room for 737's.

Should be interesting to see what they do with all those new acft though.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:35 am

I would like WestJet to compete with NW on MSP-YEG and MSP-Montreal. WestJet flies to Montreal right?
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
Noise
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
I would like WestJet to compete with NW on MSP-YEG and MSP-Montreal. WestJet flies to Montreal right?

Yes they do. They fly YUL-YYZ, YUL-YWG, YUL-YYC, YUL-YEG, YUL-YVR, YUL-YYG, YUL-FLL, YUL-TPA and YUL-MCO.

Honestly, the YUL-MSP market is too small for another carrier to successfully compete with NW. The daily flight with the CRJ is just about fine for that market.

I think out of YUL, WestJet would have better success with O&D markets that are over 70,000 pax per year...YUL-NYC, YUL-BOS, YUL-LAX, YUL-ORD, YUL-IAD.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:23 am

I think a morning flight from MCO would work out. Is their demand for more pax flights to Canada from
MCO? We have AC, Westjet, and Airtransat I believe.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 7):
Could Canada flights fly into Hobby since there is no FIS there?

Despite what it may lack so far as self-contained facilities go; HOU is a customs landing rights airport, which is all you'd need for authorization to a nonstop flight from a pre-cleared destination in Canada et al.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
af773atmsp
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:05 am

Why doesn't AC have service from MSP to YUL? Not much demand on this route or is it because of the competition against NW?
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
Noise
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 23):
Why doesn't AC have service from MSP to YUL? Not much demand on this route or is it because of the competition against NW?

Looking at the market size, probably both!
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:32 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 15):
Then please explain why they pack virtually full 4 CRJs from YYC and 2 of them from YEG? While many of the passengers to YVR are connecting, they fill 2 CRJs and one 738 per day flown on this route.

Its called a hub, 1 pax connecting here one connecting there, it adds up..and they dont pack the RJs, they have like a 70% LF.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 19):
I would like WestJet to compete with NW on MSP-YEG and MSP-Montreal. WestJet flies to Montreal right?

Another tiny local market,. youll notice that NW has gone from DC-9s to ARJs to CRJs on that route. No way WestJet will ever fly to MSP......For WS to suceed, the market must be large or have lots of potential to be stimulated with low fares. Probl;em the taxes are so high on transborder flights, that LCCs get put at a disadvantage.
 
centrair
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 23):
Why doesn't AC have service from MSP to YUL? Not much demand on this route or is it because of the competition against NW?

Not much demand at all. Look at ORD-YUL, DTW-YUL, or SFO-YUL. All major hubs and few flights to YUL. I think the largest aircraft on those routes is a DC-9 or A319. (I am currently in the process of sendinga group to YUL and finding it hell to book with just one stop.).

Quoting Salomon (Reply 9):
Here is another interesting article to read.

WOW! Maybe they could tap the Japanese market. AC has a complete lock on it and the prices are way to high in the low season. They need a little international competition to Asia.

however...

Thing is that they would have to make some changes to their model to do long-haul.

and...

Quote:
In June, 2004, when the 787 had the early name of 7E7, Boeing officials travelled to WestJet's Calgary head office to visit the airline's executive team, showing off a computer-generated 7E7 photo with WestJet's logo, an industry insider said.

Boeing talks to all their customers. I bet they even talked with WN!
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
af773atmsp
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:40 pm

I doubt that WestJet would consider MSP-CUN service or MSP to some Caribbean destination because SY and NW would be hard to compete against.
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
caribb
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 26):
Not much demand at all. Look at ORD-YUL, DTW-YUL, or SFO-YUL. All major hubs and few flights to YUL. I think the largest aircraft on those routes is a DC-9 or A319. (I am currently in the process of sendinga group to YUL and finding it hell to book with just one stop.).

It's a bit of an oddball market in North America plus city is not in a good location to generate connections around the continent. Add to it Toronto, Canada's main hub, is a 45 minute flight away so most people go through the established central hub.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 3):
YUL-NYC is so overserved..I think YYC-DFW and YYZ-ORD/LGA would be good starts with the AA code

..and YYZ-LGA, YYZ-ORD isn't? You may be right but I think the same applie to the YYZ market as well.
 
yow
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Full story:
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...ions+

For those of us that don't have a subscription, would you mind posting the full article here?

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 2):
I bet RDU is one to compete against AC.

A 737 on a Transborder route out of RDU? Sounds like overkill.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 3):
YUL-NYC is so overserved..I think YYC-DFW and YYZ-ORD/LGA would be good starts with the AA code

Maybe, but would AA be willing to give up flights on those routes with their own metal to WS? They did back in their CP dominance days.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
WestJet already has tried daily YVR-LAX and YYZ-LAX service with a speedy withdrawal from both.

But with with a oneworld alliance hookup these could work, plus service from secondary markets like YWG and YOW where they'd have the route to themselves. WS announced about 18 months ago YWG-LAX 2 or 3x weekly, but the service was dropped before the inaugural flight got off the ground. With LAX connections, such a service could work.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 8):
Since WestJet has only 7 remaining deliveries on backlog with Boeing, it seems highly likely that a new major 737 order will be announced this year. It could be as many as 25-50 based on their announced growth plans.

WS are taking delivery of 20 more Boeings between now and the end of 2009, but some of these will be leased, so they'd be somewhat hidden in the backlog books.
 
flyb
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 am

RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:11 am

West Jet still has many options out of YEG especially. Currently for Transborder they mainly have the holiday business. If they were to launch a IAH and LAX flight WJ would attract more of the business crowd from here. IAH has so much potential as does DFW, but airlines either do not set up good skeds, or like to us YYC as the connection hub.
 
flyyul
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:46 am

WEstJet's US point of sale is below 10%.

They will no doubt focus on high volume leisure markets from Major Canadian points. Boston, Chicago New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco are major business markets from Canada, but the competition is already quite intense.
 
multimark
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:31 am

Only proves what many of us having been saying about WS: they're running out of Canadian routes to serve. But without an alliance they're dead in the water in the States. As to adding 787's, is being the next Canadian Airlines in their long term plan?  Yeah sure
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Caribb (Reply 28):
..and YYZ-LGA, YYZ-ORD isn't? You may be right but I think the same applie to the YYZ market as well.

ORD is a hub, so it is difficult to tell...as for YYZ-LGA, it is probably more than 2x the size of YUL-LGA. Also YYZ is a hub, YUL isnt really though connectiosn are certainly possible there.
 
manu
Posts: 265
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RE: WestJet Looks At US Business Markets

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:46 am

If WestJet joined AAdvantage's program, I would fly them more. I could earn status miles on American and in OneWorld while flying WestJet. I have yet to fly WestJet because I need to go places in the USA from YYZ, and not once has WestJet operated a flight to the destination I desire. So with this recent change and the potential of earning AA miles, I'd switch. Even if WestJet was not a OneWorld member, just an American partner.

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