flyboyseven
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:24 pm

WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:27 am

WS is a Canadian airline curently flying only the 737NG. Company officails have said that room to grow with the current type is limited, and that around 2010 the airline will have reached its limit for growth. In 2006 profits soared to $114.7 million up from last years $24 million. WestJet has said it is currently considering placing orders for the 787, with deliverys starting in 2013. The airline is considering adding Carribean destinations in the next few years, and would use the 787 to extend their service overseas. Purchasing the Dreamliner would break the WS drasticly from it's Southwest inspired roots.
As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
 
flyboyseven
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:24 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
So what's your point?

Just thought someone might like to know. You didn't.
As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:36 am

Interesting move if true. It seems a little bold, but at the same time makes sence, as there are only so many Canadian routes that are profitable with 737s. 787s would open up a vast number of new opportunities, and I'm sure overseas flights would help feed the shorter flights quite nicely.

I wonder if they would introduce a business class?
Maybe it's possible for the kind I've seen in europe, where the 737s are set up as all-economy seating and then for business class they just leave the center seat empty and give more service. It won't be as nice as Air Canada's business class, but it would be cheaper and give Westjet a lot more flexibility (ex. if only 2 rows of business are needed only 2 rows are sold as business, and then if the next flight has enough business class traffic to fill 10 rows they could sell 10 rows as business, where as Air Canada's A319s and A320s are stuck with 14 or 16 business seats whether theres 5 or 50 passengers willing to pay for them).


CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7270
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting Flyboyseven (Thread starter):
Purchasing the Dreamliner would break the WS drasticly from it's Southwest inspired roots.

They already have broken from their original business model, as an example, flying into YYZ, into the US and doing charters. So, I don't think that ordering another aircraft type will be much of a change for WS.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
flyboyseven
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:24 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:10 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

True enough. In their early years they were modled almost exactly the same as WN. Many of those similaritys still exist such as the one type (737-600,700,800) fleet.
As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
 
gmonney
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:59 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:24 am

I think the biggest thing for WS to do in the future is to stick with what they are good at... that is domestic, some popular US and Carribean, and Charters... All the routes seem to be making money and they have a great product. You don't have to add routes to make more money... there is a very large market and market share will make more money than adding routes and spreading out your operation. I think what they have done is supply what the Canadian market had demanded, US and Canada are completely different markets (if you want to compare WN to WS). Without getting into it too deep, Canadian holiday travel is built on these charters like SSV, TS and others of old... So catching a piece with available aircraft makes a lot of sense. If you look at the US, it seems every major carrier flies to the islands and I would assume its affordable because of the low taxes in the states. So guys like WN don't fly to sun destinations... for that reason.

Westjet impressed me last month with my YYZ-LAS-YWG-YYZ run, I didn't have a PTV for the LAS-YWG run but it was the redeye and i need the sleep anyway... So they need to stick with what they are good at and not try to be the next AC.

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
PilotRecruit
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:36 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:32 pm

I believe spreading into the international market is an excellent move for WS. It has been speculated for a long time now that WS is seriously considering One World and this certainly would make them an even more attractive member. BA's Willy Walsh has even come to Calgary to personally have a sit down with Clive Beddoe and Sean Durfy. I can imagine as WS wants to keep expanding, as they always do, Mr. Walsh may be in the background somewhat pushing them along into the international market. One World/BA suffered greatly in the Canadian market with the consolidation of Canadian and has been chomping at the bit to extend it's services into Canada. Plus, I don't think it's just the economy in Calgary that pushed BA to start service there again. Especially since BA has been quite hasty to expand it's North American network with Calgary being the first added North American route in 10 years.

Also, if not One World, then a code share between BA and WS could be closer down the road then we may think and with the addition of the 787 to WS fleet, BA can take advantage of WS priveledges to fly in and out of Canada as much as they like. One of the most saught after slots in the world is the daytime Heathrow slot and with the loads BA is experiencing on all of it's Canadian sectors, I can imagine we'd see LHR as one of WS first destinations with BA as the donor. With the amount of sold out flights AC sends to LHR each day in the summer, I certainly think there is plenty of room for another few flights a day.

Just my two cents, but I'm really pulling for them to buy the big boys, because I want to come back and fly for them in 5 or 6 years!
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
CYQL
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:04 pm

I see Westjet adding a CRJ/ERJ before going for a larger aircraft. There are a lot of cities that a 737 is too large. A 50 to 100 seater would open up a lot of markets. If they need a larger A/C sooner, I'm sure Boeing could deliver some 763's on fairly short notice.

I agree that WS will probably join Oneworld, as it makes good business sense, and BA and AA would like another Canadian partner after losing Canadian Airlines.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4404
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:47 pm

What is the source for this information... or is this just pure speculation?
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 8):
What is the source for this information... or is this just pure speculation?

Here, amongst others:

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet...15&archive=gam&slug=RTICKERMAIN15#
 
flyyul
Posts: 4404
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:02 am

That article is very vague. In fact there is nothing substantial to would lead us to believe that there is substantial interest.

Which LCC has broke away from their model and accomodated widebody international airplanes? None to my knowledge.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:29 am

If they are looking at Caribbean ops it would be great to see a 787 over our clear blue waters, but a 737NG could make it and would probbaly be easier to fill.

YYZ- Dom Rep (Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, Puerto Plata)
YYZ- KIN/ MBJ
YYZ- POS
YYZ- BGI
YYZ- CCS
YYZ- HAV

...those would probably be pretty high up on the list of Caribbean destinations (I know Venezuela is in South America, but it's very close!!) Mexico might also be a good place to start for international Services. I'm sure WJ could also fly into many European cities

YYZ- FRA, LGW
YUL/ YYZ- CDG

Looking for some comments/ criticisms about my proposed routes!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15697
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting CYQL (Reply 7):
I see Westjet adding a CRJ/ERJ before going for a larger aircraft. There are a lot of cities that a 737 is too large. A 50 to 100 seater would open up a lot of markets.

I agree. Virgin Blue just bit the bullet and ordered the E190/170. But Westjet has no far said that they would stick with the 737.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 10):
Which LCC has broke away from their model and accomodated widebody international airplanes? None to my knowledge.

Jetstar Australia just added the 332 to their 320 fleet.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4404
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
Jetstar Australia just added the 332 to their 320 fleet.

Within the North American context (F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.)
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:10 am

FLYYUL you are assuming that WS is still an LCC, I'd argue that they left their original/LCC model long ago. If they go with 67's or 87's it wont be in the context of operating as a LCC.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
yvrtoyyz
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:10 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting Flyboyseven (Thread starter):
WestJet has said it is currently considering placing orders for the 787, with deliverys starting in 2013

I'm curious as to when they referred to considering the B787 as an option. The closest B787 model I can envision meeting their requirements would be the -3 series.

-YVRtoYYZ
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3411
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
They already have broken from their original business model, as an example, flying into YYZ, into the US and doing charters. So, I don't think that ordering another aircraft type will be much of a change for WS.

While flying into YYZ is certainly going against the WN business model, doing trans-border flights is something any airline even from the get go must do if based in Canada. While it is a vast country geographically, it only has the population roughly of the State of California spread out over that vastness, but below the 49th is a country of 300 million and many business markets that Canada trades with and is reliant upon. It would be foolish not to do trans-border flights from start-up. No Canada based carrier can expect to do this. WN on the other hand will outgrow the lower 48 U.S. market soon enough, and it isn't a matter of IF but WHEN they start trans-border flights.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 11):
If they are looking at Caribbean ops it would be great to see a 787 over our clear blue waters, but a 737NG could make it and would probably be easier to fill.

YYZ- Dom Rep (Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, Puerto Plata)
YYZ- KIN/ MBJ
YYZ- POS
YYZ- BGI
YYZ- CCS
YYZ- HAV

...those would probably be pretty high up on the list of Caribbean destinations (I know Venezuela is in South America, but it's very close!!) Mexico might also be a good place to start for international Services.

I think you can add YYC and YEG to these Caribbean destinations as origins. Funny thing, until the late 1990s when the exchange rate between the U.S. and Canadian $$ became to large, Hawaii was the biggest tropical getaway from those from B.C. and the Prairie Provinces, but the D.R. took that away very quickly, and until you get as far west as YYC and YEG, it is actually closer to Canada than Hawaii. Along with SLC down in the U.S. you are actually closer to POP or PUJ than you are HNL, OGG or KOA. Hard to believe but very true, go to the great circle mapper site and see for yourself! WS does already offer charter flights to Mexico, SJD, PVT and MZT I believe from YYC, YEG and YQL.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
multimark
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:03 am

Welcome to Westjet, the new Canadi>n Airlines International! And Durfy and Beddoe should be very, very careful before heading down that road. Remember another successful Canadian 737 operator that decided it wanted to go international? If you said Pacific Western, give yourself a prize. We all know what happened there. Wow!
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:40 am

First, sure numbers look good for WS, however "we" lost 2 competitors since then and 06 was the first full year for AC & WS........... without these two, so lets wait for 07 results and see...

US market very bumpy and not much of a success in over 3 years....., LCC=LOWER COST CARRIER in WS case would work if they go international with T7 or 787.... growth/cost and a partnership/alliance would be easier with two type ac, going with an smaller ac would just mean WS is limiting them self even more to the domestic market=limitetd future growth=less interesting for investment......... which shows it clearly in their stock performance lately......

So go WS spread your wings, Canada is big enough to support 2 National Carriers.

Cheers,
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:04 pm

No it isn't....do we need to rhyme off the names of those who have tried in the past???
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15697
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 13):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
Jetstar Australia just added the 332 to their 320 fleet.

Within the North American context (F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.)

Canada's and Australia's aviation markets mirror each other far more than does Canada's to the US. Each has a dominant legacy carrier and a fast growing LCC. Australia actually has 2 LCC's although one is owned by Qantas. The other LCC Virgin Blue announced today its intent to order 7 773's. It's current largest aircraft is the 738.

I'm sure Canadians would be very supportive of long haul flights by WS using the 788. As WS reaches the planned 83 73G's by end of 2009, even some domestic routes (YYZ-YYC/YVR) could support 788 ops on some frequencies much like AC runs widebodies on those routes.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7270
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:48 pm

To be honest, I don't think WS is going to have much of a choice. Canada is in dire need of another full schedule flag carrier, however, can Canada support it? Also, if WS does order larger aircraft, who will be the first to fall?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Iloveboeing
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:53 pm

I think 787s in WestJet colors would be awesome! Does anyone know what possible configurations and seat pitch they would use?
 
don81603
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:07 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:00 pm

WS already does some Carribeean charters for Air Transat, and they have scheduled flights to HNL as well. They are definately expanding, and I can see the 787 in WS's future. I just hope they keep the warm friendly atmosphere on board. For myself, this is what sets them apart from almost every other airline. The cabin crews definately seem to have fun at work, and that attitude spills over to the passengers.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:19 pm

WS and CM might be the two airlines to use the 787 to brea from their traditional models. Let's hope they both choose the 787 in 2007!!!!!!!! The 787 IS revolutionary!! hehe

Totally Tropical
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
multimark
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
Canada is in dire need of another full schedule flag carrier, however, can Canada support it?

If there is a question that Canada can support it, then I doubt there is a dire need....
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting Multimark (Reply 25):
If there is a question that Canada can support it, then I doubt there is a dire need....

Right on the money.....  Wink

Yes Canada is big enough for 2 flag carriers, WS is smarter then CP was so we can not compare these two.


Cheers,
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: WestJet - New Fleet

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting Flyboyseven (Thread starter):
Purchasing the Dreamliner would break the WS drasticly from it's Southwest inspired roots.

WS abandoned the Southwest model long ago, but are still a LCC. They're far more a JetBlue-style of LCC nowadays...minus the winter weather fiascos.  Wink

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
To be honest, I don't think WS is going to have much of a choice. Canada is in dire need of another full schedule flag carrier, however, can Canada support it?

Let's say hypothetically, WS do start to take delivery of 787-8s in 2011. By then Canada's population should be at least 34 million or about +4 million higher than when CP disappeared. Most of the country's population growth is coming from immigrants, who will have a tendency to fly internationally. Also, homegrown Canadians are increasingly doing more overseas travel. Hopefully by than many of Canada's bilaterals will have gotten out of the stone age and become open skies agreements.

Now whether or not WS would be successful, I won't say, but certainly Canada's larger population would be a good thing for WS if they ever did decide to go transoceanic.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos