Continental123
Topic Author
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:51 am

In a press conference recently, a JAL spokeswoman announced intrest in a non-stop NRT-MIA. They also said that they would be intrested in an AA codeshare.
 
fraspotter
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting Continental123 (Thread starter):
intrested in an AA codeshare.

So does that mean that they aren't even thinking about using their own metal?
"Taking off is optional. It’s landing that’s mandatory."
 
AlitaliaMD11
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 1):
So does that mean that they aren't even thinking about using their own metal?

I'm sure if it was American that would operate MIA-NRT they would be the ones to announce interest.
No Vueling No Party
 
SkyyMaster
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:03 am

Does JL still operate the NRT-JFK-GRU flight? Seems a n/s to MIA would offer lots of cnx options to Latin America and do away the need for that flight, assuming it still runs.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 3):
Does JL still operate the NRT-JFK-GRU flight?

Yes.
No Vueling No Party
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 2):
I'm sure if it was American that would operate MIA-NRT they would be the ones to announce interest.

This could be done with JL metal. JL will have the planes available.

JL has just joined OneWorld. I think many routes are going to become codeshared.

How much longer would MIA-NRT be compared to DL's ATL-NRT flight?

Why?
AA pilots have that flying restriction thing.
MIA-NRT is almost 100nm further than DFW-PVG and would be a little longer int time. If pilots wouldn't allow DFW-PVG, they are not going to approve MIA-NRT. I think this would be on JL metal and have an AA number attached to it. In exchange, some AA flights out of MIA could have JL numbers.

[Edited 2007-02-19 03:23:38]
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:34 am

Interesting. It would be cool to see JAL at MIA, but I can't see it happening soon. I think we will see Korean Air before JAL.
a.
 
ikramerica
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:43 am

I assume they'd need the 77W on the route, especially in the westbound direction. I think most of their 772ERs are too old, making rotations difficult, and the 744 isn't long-legged enough. Of course, a 788 would also do the job nicely and wouldn't need to fill such a large premium cabin compared to the 77W, so maybe they are talking about this for next year?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:59 am

My two cents on a 77W flight begining next year. It would make a better option for business travelers from MCO that are on United morining SFO flight.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
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legacyins
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
My two cents on a 77W flight begining next year. It would make a better option for business travelers from MCO that are on United morining SFO flight.

Not if your a Star frequent flyer.  Wink
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2567
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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
I think most of their 772ERs are too old, making rotations difficult

Too old huh. I guess it depends on who you work for but the oldest one is not even 5 years old yet, while the youngest hasn't seen its 2nd birthday.

All of its 772ERs are two-class birds and only 11 are available with no additional on order. The first three are not fitted the crew rest bunks, so they operate only Asian routes. What -200s they have on order are non-ERs but not too hard to change it (one call to Seattle from JL HQ should do the trick).
JL has only one 773ER for delivery this year while retiring a number of classic 747s & 744 for BCF conversions, so they would have to strip one of the NRT-European routes of the 773ER. However, it is definitely possible with the scope of JL's widebody fleet.
 
aal0616
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:16 am

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:22 pm

Although this would be a professional fantasy fulfilled, all-time, life-time dream flight to handle on its inaugural run with the AAL 772, the reality is, given the westbound flight time (at minimum), and all the other considerations, get ready, following the April 1 entry of JAL into oneworld, for the "crane" to probably appear at MIA on 747-400 equipment and possibly the JFK-GRU tag from NRT to disappear in favor of JAL-blocked seats on AAL MIA-GRU trips, and AAL-blocked seats on the MIA-NRT JAL trips.

It makes complete sense for both companies and would be a great way to begin their alliance. The 747-400 can carry a payload suited to the stage length and market characteristics, lots of electronic cargo, and servicing the large Sao Paulo area Japanese and Japanese descendant population.

Many here have been wondering about when there would be direct MIA-Asia service with the upcoming 787 airframes but this step now is one that in the current market can be a winner from day one. The AAL 772 fleet is tied up, and the newer LR 777 variant really makes more sense on this route than the current aircraft, which would be positioned and loaded daily the way it has to be from EWR to HKG on COA because of the distance and prevailing wind conditions.

So, do not be surprised if a JAL-AAL code share NRT-MIA-GRU turns out to become a reality in the near future. The real question is what will be the weekly frequency level that is determined by planners to be appropriate, and which type of JAL 747-400 equipment are utilized (passenger/cargo mix).
 
aal0616
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:16 am

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:26 pm

Another thought:

Although they can tweak the 744s to handle it, yes, as mentioned, westbound depending upon loading conditions, daily weather, the jet stream and the season they may need to take stops in ANC, so if JAL can spring 77W equipment, all the better. We will see. But bet on them doing it. It makes sense.
 
skyzheimers
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:57 pm

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:41 pm

AA has no interest in serving NRT-MIA nonstop since it would weaken the yields on their NRT-JFK flights which are heavily supported by South American connections...
 
ikramerica
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 10):
Too old huh. I guess it depends on who you work for but the oldest one is not even 5 years old yet, while the youngest hasn't seen its 2nd birthday.

I thought they had older 772ERs than that. If they are only 2-5 years old, they definitely have the range to make MIA. A daily flight would require 2...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
I thought they had older 772ERs than that. If they are only 2-5 years old, they definitely have the range to make MIA. A daily flight would require 2...

Probably, the 777 that you are thinking about is the ones that are stictly used on domestic flights. Those ones are rather older than the 2-5 years. It was not until quite recently that JL started getting the 777-246ER to replace the retiring MD-11's and some 744 on European routes.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2567
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 11):
get ready, following the April 1 entry of JAL into oneworld, for the "crane" to probably appear at M

Only problem is that there's not many more 'cranes' schemes left flying. A few 744s, 772s, & 763s left. A quarter of the sun might have to do.

The way JL is headed the more likely equipment will be 773ER, since it seems JL, like NH, is replacing the quads with twins on the longer-haul routes.
 
aal0616
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:16 am

JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:04 pm

Yes, it is very true that in reality, the quarter sun would be a better description today than the crane, but one can always sentimentally think of the crane when thinking of JAL.

And, yes, the long range 773-ER indeed may be the equipment of choice, and makes sense for a potential NRT-MIA route as more of them come into the JAL fleet.
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 11):
following the April 1 entry of JAL into oneworld

Wait, they haven't joined Oneworld yet?? I'm flying them in a week and I'm hoping to get the miles on my AAdvantage account.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 18):
I'm flying them in a week and I'm hoping to get the miles on my AAdvantage account.

You can get miles. I flew on them in 2000 from ORD-NRT and got AAdvantage miles. (the only time I ever used my AA card actually...I didn't even pay for the ticket...thank you Ministry of Foreign Affairs and CLAIR)
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
You can get miles. I flew on them in 2000 from ORD-NRT and got AAdvantage miles. (the only time I ever used my AA card actually...I didn't even pay for the ticket...thank you Ministry of Foreign Affairs and CLAIR)

Thank you. I was a beginning to get a little worried there.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
aal0616
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:16 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 18):
Wait, they haven't joined Oneworld yet?? I'm flying them in a week and I'm hoping to get the miles on my AAdvantage account.

Of course, the two-way AAL-JAL code shares have been around for a while, and if the flight is marketed as such, naturally you can earn miles. April 1 is the day JAL actually joins oneworld as a full member, and cross-mileage earning opportunities will definitely increase. With full membership comes the type of planning, promotion and seat marketing that could lead to a possible NRT-MIA route.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:15 am

Was able to find out some more today, and, yes, JAL is considering flying to Miami. The Miami talk has come out of two events. First is, obviously, the oneWorld membership. The other, less obvious, is the sudden over-capacity in the New York City-Sao Paulo market with five airlines (six when Varig gets back) and too many daily flights. JAL is considering transferring JL 47/48, which operates NRT-GRU-JFK 3x a week, to NRT-MIA-GRU (and as a result JFK-NRT would possibly be reduced to 13x a week [three more frequencies are being added this summer] to 10x), but possibly not (JFK-NRT has gone from 5 to 3 airlines in the past year, and is seeing a nice boost in yields for the three remaining airlines). The Miami-Sao Paulo market is larger and has only two airlines (three when Varig comes back), both of which codeshare with each other (AA and TAM). JAL would also be able to codeshare with AA on the route. MIA-GRU is a very big route for AA (their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) and AA would welcome the additional capacity JAL can provide. AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

We'll see what happens, I wouldn't get too excited just yet, but it would be pretty awesome. Just remember, it seems very odd that JAL, which has been cutting back heavily on loss-making international routes, would suddenly make a risky move and start flights to Miami. I don't see JAL taking the risk right now, so while the talks are happening, they will likely proceede slowly and with cation, if at all.

There are a few "ifs" here. First, while a 744 would have little problem on eastbound NRT-MIA, MIA-NRT, with strong headwinds, could turn into many stops in Anchorage during parts of the year. Also, will AA's feed, primarily from Latin America, the Caribbean, and Orlando, be enough to help supplement the O&D on the route given the fact that Latin American and Caribbean nationals will need to go through the hassle of getting a visa to transit in Miami? If the latter wasn't the case, I think the answer would be an easy "yes".

We'll see what develops in the next 12-18 months, but if Miami has a non-stop passenger flight to the Orient within two years, I'd bet it would be on a baby blue plane to Seoul. Korean Air Cargo's results at Miami since starting service in July have been excellent, and they are planning on going to 4x weekly service this summer.

[Edited 2007-02-20 00:25:16]
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
(their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) *** AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

...is not ORD-LHR also busier than that for them?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
(their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) *** AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

...is not ORD-LHR also busier than that for them?

Yes, it is, totally forgot about that one.
a.
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23):
...is not ORD-LHR also busier than that for them?

I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore. At least considering ORD, JAL has undergone quite a few changes. First, they used to operate KIX-ORD a couple years ago. That route was slashed. Then they made NRT-ORD double daily, but then they slashed it as well.

As for LHR, I think joining OW is changing things quite drastically. Since BA dropped LHR-KIX and replaced it with a double daily LHR-NRT, JAL has changed its equipment. I think it was initially a 2x daily B744 and another B744 from KIX. Instead, now they have two 772ER and one 777W operating the route.

JFK still remains JAL's strong-hold. I think AA joined the route but other than that, there aren't any OW carriers on that route.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 25):
At least considering ORD, JAL has undergone quite a few changes.

...um cher, I was talking about ORD-LHR not NRT.  Wink
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
My two cents on a 77W flight begining next year. It would make a better option for business travelers from MCO that are on United morining SFO flight.

Why would a business traveler from MCO to NRT want to travel MCO-MIA-NRT over MCO-ORD-NRT or MCO-DTW-NRT. It would be farther and longer.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 27):

Why would a business traveler from MCO to NRT want to travel MCO-MIA-NRT over MCO-ORD-NRT or MCO-DTW-NRT. It would be farther and longer.

There is a good amount of leisure traffic between Orlando and Japan, and that would certainly help fill a plane, as leisure travelers don't care as much about how long it takes them to get home.

DTW/ORD-NRT are about 13h20m. MIA-NRT would be approx. a 15h00 minute flight. And how about MCO-MIA? On a jet (and AA flies exclusively mainline on MIA-MCO, including widebody A300s), the flight is about 30 minutes takeoff to landing. DTW/ORD-MCO are about 2h20-2h40m. And you'll probably be able to make the flight time between flights much quicker if you connect in Miami. Then there's the fact that Miami is not prone to winter weather or ATC delays like O'Hare. I really don't see how Miami would be that ridiculous of a choice.
a.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 27):
Why would a business traveler from MCO to NRT want to travel MCO-MIA-NRT over MCO-ORD-NRT or MCO-DTW-NRT. It would be farther and longer.

There is much appeal to a short "hop" to the gateway as opposed to a longer flight when there is a two-leg international journey. In this instance, the 50 minute MIA-MCO flight would be much more attractive than a 2.5 hour ORD-MCO flight when a traveler has just spent 10+ hours crossing an ocean. Even though NRT-MIA-MCO is backtracking, the time spent doing so is minimal.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 29):
There is much appeal to a short "hop" to the gateway as opposed to a longer flight when there is a two-leg international journey. In this instance, the 50 minute MIA-MCO flight would be much more attractive than a 2.5 hour ORD-MCO flight when a traveler has just spent 10+ hours crossing an ocean. Even though NRT-MIA-MCO is backtracking, the time spent doing so is minimal.

Definitley. I much perfer doing a short hop and then a long flight, rather than something in between, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The idea of getting off a 13.5-14.5 hour flight from Tokyo and then only having a quick, sub-1 hour flight up to Orlando is much more appealing than being on a long flight and than having a 2.5-3 hour flight down to Orlando.
a.
 
OOer
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:19 pm

How about JL starting a NRT-MCO flight? 4X weekly.....longshot or possible? Or even a ICN-MCO flight on Korean.....lots of codeshare flight on DL to other florida markets, bahamas, and puerto rico.....

thoughts or comments?
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 9):
Not if your a Star frequent flyer.

What if you belong to oneworld?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 27):

Bob, No disrespect to NWA, but MIA is alot easier to connect in. for Florida and Caribbean residents, MIA would be a perfect connection to Asia.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 31):
How about JL starting a NRT-MCO flight? 4X weekly.....longshot or possible? Or even a ICN-MCO flight on Korean.....lots of codeshare flight on DL to other florida markets, bahamas, and puerto rico.....

thoughts or comments?

There is very little business traffic and minimal connections when compared to Miami. Miami would likely see JAL or Korean Air before Orlando. Can JAL or Korean Air fill a flight to Orlando? Yes, probably. Can they make money on it? Probably not. A Miami flight would benefit from better business traffic and better connections to Latin America. Latin American connections are key here, connections to other cities in Florida (outside of Miami and Orlando), the Bahamas, and Puerto Rico? JAL and Korean Air couldn't care less about them.
a.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 32):
Bob, No disrespect to NWA, but MIA is alot easier to connect in. for Florida and Caribbean residents, MIA would be a perfect connection to Asia.

I thought we were talking about MCO passengers connecting to NRT. Are you trying to tell me that connecting in MIA for MCO originating passengers is easier than connecting at DTW. Have you ever been to the NWA operation in DTW. We are not talking about South America or Caribbean passengers but MCO passengers, which was brought up by you.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
The Miami-Sao Paulo market is larger and has only two airlines (three when Varig comes back), both of which codeshare with each other (AA and TAM). JAL would also be able to codeshare with AA on the route. MIA-GRU is a very big route for AA (their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) and AA would welcome the additional capacity JAL can provide. AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

Not to forget that a flight thru MIA will allow connections to MAO, SSA and GIG all of them very popular destinations in Japan, without plane change. In the case of GIG, AA and JAL could offer NRT-MIA / MIA-GIG. Miami is for sure the best gateway in the US in terms of Latin America.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: JAL Announces Interest In MIA!

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 34):
Are you trying to tell me that connecting in MIA for MCO originating passengers is easier than connecting at DTW. Have you ever been to the NWA operation in DTW.

Yes and yes. I think it would be just as easy and convenient, if not more so, to connect in MIA to NRT than ORD or DTW. As MAH indicated, the flight time between MCO and MIA is only 30 mins and then a 15hr flight. In my mind, that's easier than a 2.5hr flight then a 13hr flight.

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