sflaflight
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US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:11 pm

I am going ot travel to MEX from MIA the second week in March and I have a question about the new passport requirements for anyone who might be somewhat familiar at all with the new changes.

The new law says that for all travel in the Western Hemisphere initiative, every US citizen must now have a passport to re-enter the US. Here is the problem. No where does it specify a US passport. Everywhere I have researched - state.gov, internet only says a passport.

Question. I just got naturalized in December and have NOT submitted for a US passport yet. I am also a Canadian citizen and have a valid passport (ie, dual citizenship now.) My departure date is Mar 06. I technically can do a rush/expedite passport first thing Tuesday 20 feb. Should I chance it and return to the US with my Canadian passport and my Naturalization certificate, or rush a US passport and hope that it makes it back in time? I will have to send in the original US Naturalization certificate to do that. If it doesn't get back in time, I have no original US naturalization certificate to re-enter with. Also, I'm flying AM to MEX, will they let me board with my Canadian passport and Naturalization certificate or do you all think AM will insist on a US passport! Any opinion or experience welcome.

[Edited 2007-02-19 07:12:13]
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:18 pm

Correct. It does not specify, but it means a passport, regardless of who issued it. You need a passport to enter the US from outside the US. Any passport.

AM will insist on a or any passport, as long as it is yours and it can identify you. The airline has no jursidiction over where you live, what citizenship you claim or what passport you fly under. The only jursidiction they have is that whatever passport you do show, you must possess proper entry (visa, no visa) into the country you are travelling to based on the passport given (like if you are travelling on a Mexican passport going to the US, you need a visa or if you are travelling on a Canadian passport you do not need a visa for the US).
You can't cure stupid
 
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legacyins
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Thread starter):
Question. I just got naturalized in December and have NOT submitted for a US passport yet. I am also a Canadian citizen and have a valid passport (ie, dual citizenship now.)

If you are a United States citizen, you are required to present a valid United States passport for re-entry to the United States if returning on an Air carrier from Mexico.

Quoting Sflaflight (Thread starter):
I'm flying AM to MEX, will they let me board with my Canadian passport and Naturalization certificate or do you all think AM will insist on a US passport!

You need to contact a Mexican Consulate to see what you would require to enter the country of Mexico.

This sound advice, hence my screen name, Legacy INS.
 
LAXintl
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:20 pm

I certainly agree with LegacyINS.

If you are a US citizen you are expected to present US credentials, not that of another country irregardless of your ability to hold dual citizenship.

What you do when travelling outside the US is up to you, however one must have a US passport to enter the US as a US citizen.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
detroitflyer
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:29 pm

dont take my advice beacuse i dont know, but just another quick ? to ins

if he is a canadian citizen anyway why cant he just enter being the fact that he is a canadian citizen??
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:32 pm

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 4):
if he is a canadian citizen anyway why cant he just enter being the fact that he is a canadian citizen??

He can, he just needs to fill out the blue and white customs form and follow the appropriate signs. To enter the US, everyone needs a passport. Everyone.
You can't cure stupid
 
philb
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:37 pm

As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.
 
Milesdependent
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 6):
As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.

Not good advice for the following reasons:
* You enter the US on a tourist 90 day visa
* If you do not depart the US on that same passport within this period, this will cause trouble with the INS

I have a friend who was a British citizen and then became an Australian citizen. He travelled overseas on his British passport. When re-entering Australia, again with his British passport, they refused him entry as he did not have a valid visa in his British passport. He had to go to great lengths to prove he was in fact Australian, and was then fined for travelling without a passport...
 
philb
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 7):
Not good advice for the following reasons:
* You enter the US on a tourist 90 day visa
* If you do not depart the US on that same passport within this period, this will cause trouble with the INS

Are Canadians subject to the 90 day rule?
 
star_world
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
Are Canadians subject to the 90 day rule?

6 months for Canadian citizens, according to the following page:
http://www.amcits.com/canada.asp#canadians

(linked from the US Embassy in Canada website)

I agree with MilesDependent completely - the approach of using a Canadian passport in this case will not work. If you're a US citizen you have to enter the US as one.
 
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Coal
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:14 pm

Interesting question and one that arose during a conversation with a friend of mine. He naturalized but for business reasons has to travel one or two days after the oath ceremony. What are his options?

Cheers,
Coal
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philb
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting Star_world (Reply 9):
I agree with MilesDependent completely - the approach of using a Canadian passport in this case will not work. If you're a US citizen you have to enter the US as one.

Well the logic would seem to be to enter using the Canadian passport and, in the 6 months available, apply for the US passport and, once obtained, leave the country showing the Canadian passport, and re-enter with the US passport.
 
star_world
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 11):
Well the logic would seem to be to enter using the Canadian passport and, in the 6 months available, apply for the US passport and, once obtained, leave the country showing the Canadian passport, and re-enter with the US passport.

The logic is okay except I believe it's illegal to enter the US on that Canadian passport, if you are a US citizen. He may be lucky and not get caught, but with the highly unpredictable nature of US immigration / customs these days it's not a chance I would take at all.
 
philb
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:42 pm

Given the happy, cheerful way Immigration and Customs treat all foreigners at US points of entry you are probably correct.

When I last used the Immigration Service which is available at Shannon for US bound passengers, just for the sake of being polite I asked the official where he was from and how he liked the Irish posting. His answer? "You do not need that information". Wow, what an impression to give a first time visitor. Fortunately for the reputation of the US it was my 20th visit but those guys are rarely even polite these days, compared to 15 years or so ago.
 
iahflyer
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Thread starter):
Any opinion or experience welcome.

In Houston, there is a Emergency Passport Center, i.e. get a passport the same day, more expensive but great service!!
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
luv2fly
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 13):
When I last used the Immigration Service which is available at Shannon for US bound passengers, just for the sake of being polite I asked the official where he was from and how he liked the Irish posting. His answer? "You do not need that information". Wow, what an impression to give a first time visitor. Fortunately for the reputation of the US it was my 20th visit but those guys are rarely even polite these days, compared to 15 years or so ago.

For whatever reason I find these out station Immigration locations to be far worse then the ones located in the USA.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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legacyins
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 6):
As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.

True but (2) problems

1) The officer will ask him the purpose of his entry to the US? Is he going to lie and say he is only a visitor or in transit?
2) If he is admitted as a Canadian citizen, he will be admitted for 6 mths. What happens if he does not leave after 6 mths, he will be an overstay with an Immigration violation. On subsequent trips , even if he has that US passport, he will still have that overstay record prompting a Secondary Inspection. Now, for those of you whoever been to a Secondary office, it can be unpleasant and time consuming. Do you really want to put him in that situation?

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
Are Canadians subject to the 90 day rule?

No, Canada is not a Visa Waiver Country. They are exempt certain Non-Immigrant Visas, except K,E, and V classifications.

Best advice, US citizens can make an appointment at their local Passport Office and for a higher fee, can expedite their application process.
 
philb
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:55 am

Just another thought on this. As he has applied for and received US citizenship he must have some form of residency documentation to overcome the 6th month rule so why can't he just continue as he would have done before he received his citizenship?
 
Analog
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 10):
Interesting question and one that arose during a conversation with a friend of mine. He naturalized but for business reasons has to travel one or two days after the oath ceremony. What are his options?

Reschedule the trip? Seriously. You can get quick passport service (24-48 hours), but I don't know if you can get an appt. w/o being a citizen (probably can, but that's a guess). I also don't know how fast it goes w/o an old passport.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):
To enter the US, everyone needs a passport. Everyone.

Sidenote- Active duty US Military personnel do not need one to leave or enter the USA (even though many like myself have two passports tourist and official). Your ID and orders, either leave orders or posting orders, will suffice, even now after the new rule.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns
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Analog
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 19):

Sidenote- Active duty US Military personnel do not need one to leave or enter the USA (even though many like myself have two passports tourist and official). Your ID and orders, either leave orders or posting orders, will suffice, even now after the new rule.

Expanding the sidenote: Does that work for entry to all countries? Basically does the US ever send military personnel, on official duty, using commercial transport, to countries where the SOFA does not permit entry with ID & orders?
 
robsawatsky
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 16):
2) If he is admitted as a Canadian citizen, he will be admitted for 6 mths. What happens if he does not leave after 6 mths, he will be an overstay with an Immigration violation. On subsequent trips , even if he has that US passport, he will still have that overstay record prompting a Secondary Inspection. Now, for those of you whoever been to a Secondary office, it can be unpleasant and time consuming. Do you really want to put him in that situation?

I do not believe the US departure controls are broad or sufficient enough to flag an overstay by a Canadian that did not require a visa to enter. For example, there is the possibility of many air or ship entries into the USA by a Canadian and departure by land where there is no exit control whatsoever. No overstay record is likely to exist in this case.

Do you not think a simple explanation that a US replacement passport has not yet been received along with proper residency documents would be acceptable?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 13):
When I last used the Immigration Service which is available at Shannon for US bound passengers, just for the sake of being polite I asked the official where he was from and how he liked the Irish posting. His answer? "You do not need that information". Wow, what an impression to give a first time visitor. Fortunately for the reputation of the US it was my 20th visit but those guys are rarely even polite these days, compared to 15 years or so ago.

I can't speak for Ireland, but the folks in Canada are generally pretty nice.

FWIW, I've run in to some real nice CBP folks in the U.S. too, especially at ATL.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Viscount724
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 16):
2) If he is admitted as a Canadian citizen, he will be admitted for 6 mths. What happens if he does not leave after 6 mths, he will be an overstay with an Immigration violation. On subsequent trips , even if he has that US passport, he will still have that overstay record prompting a Secondary Inspection. Now, for those of you whoever been to a Secondary office, it can be unpleasant and time consuming. Do you really want to put him in that situation?



Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 21):
I do not believe the US departure controls are broad or sufficient enough to flag an overstay by a Canadian that did not require a visa to enter. For example, there is the possibility of many air or ship entries into the USA by a Canadian and departure by land where there is no exit control whatsoever. No overstay record is likely to exist in this case.

Agree, I don't know how the US enforces the 6-month stay limit for Canadians since there are no departure controls from the US. The only immigration people you encounter on a flight from the US to Canada are the Canadian inspectors on arrival in Canada. And Canadians arriving in the US by air only fill out the customs form, not the I-94, so there's nothing to turn in to the airline on departure. It's basically the honor system for Canadians as far as I can tell.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 20):
Expanding the sidenote: Does that work for entry to all countries? Basically does the US ever send military personnel, on official duty, using commercial transport, to countries where the SOFA does not permit entry with ID & orders?

Sometimes. For example, I did both Argentina and Chile on my official passport with a Visa (had to have the Visa). Ditto, Manta in Ecuador. I've done Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, all of NATO, Bahrain, and Curacao without a passport check (though I normally carry both anyway).

To Enter the US all you need is the active ID and leave/movement orders, to enter some countries you still need a visa or sofa stamp. Here in Europe I need NATO orders and NATO id outside Germany or there can be stiff fines, but a passport is not required. Families must have a no-fee passport and SOFA stamp.

Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Life is not a Parker Posey movie

[Edited 2007-02-19 22:42:30]
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
sflaflight
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 7):
Not good advice for the following reasons:
* You enter the US on a tourist 90 day visa
* If you do not depart the US on that same passport within this period, this will cause trouble with the INS

Thanks to all who answer. I know noone can tell for sure what each INS agent will say, but some important questions and points were brought up. I was not thinking of the need to leave the country if I did enter the US afterwards. Here is something interesting. Two weeks after my return from MEX, I'm leaving for Seattle and will take a day ferry trip to Vancouver. So technically I guess I'm leaving the country. To play it safe I'm still going to apply for the passport expedited and hope it reaches in time.

Remember I'm a US citizen, and I have received my Naturalization certificate, but I'll have to send it in with the application. Since this is the first time ever applying for a US passport, will that cause a delay in receiving it. I know for first time applications, I must present myself at a passport office for authentication, right?

Also, to former INS agent, my concern is that I have had a green card for almost 10 years linked to my Canadian passport. Is there a way that the immigration officer at MIA can tell that there was a green card issued to me through my canadian passport record, and will I be questioned for that.

The thing is I am your typical canadian white male, fluent in English (almost lost the canadian rising by the way). Everytime I have entered the US in the past (well almost everytime) I would get the ..... Ah, you're almost American anyway speech by the CBP agents. The agent generally would go on saying he wouldn't even know I 'm not American if I hadn't said so. Funny how CBP still is much more leanient for Canadian entry, at least in my opinion.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 1):
Correct. It does not specify, but it means a passport, regardless of who issued it. You need a passport to enter the US from outside the US. Any passport.

AM will insist on a or any passport, as long as it is yours and it can identify you. The airline has no jursidiction over where you live, what citizenship you claim or what passport you fly under. The only jursidiction they have is that whatever passport you do show, you must possess proper entry (visa, no visa) into the country you are travelling to based on the passport given (like if you are travelling on a Mexican passport going to the US, you need a visa or if you are travelling on a Canadian passport you do not need a visa for the US).

I agree, but the many times I have left a foriegn country (save Canada) like Italy or England or Argentina, the airline's new pre-screening agents would ask me for a green card or visa. One time I got a little cocky and said no. BA wanted to see a connecting ticket. I told them I would by it on-line once I entered the US. She, the agent, still let me on, but not without making a stink. You will be amazed how many people abroad don't know Canadians are exempt from the Visa waiver and 90 rule.

I guess they just don't want to have to return you back if you are denied. I'm assuming there is some sort of fime involved!
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:57 am

I don't know what is available in the Miami area, but I absolutely know (from personal experience) that the Stamford, Connecticut passport office can issue a U.S. passport with same day service, for appropriate reasons. It's more expensive, but it can be done. If it can be done in the Connecticut suburbs of NYC, I have to believe that it can be done in a major metropolitan area like Miami. Call your nearest passport office (REAL passport office; not a post office that handles ordinary passport applications), and ask what kind of emergency service they provide. You may be pleasantly surprised. Good luck.

ChinaClipper40
 
Baron52ta
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:38 am

I have been in the similar situation as Starflight but I went to Paris France and even though I had the papers to say I was legal to live in the US my return to the US got some what delayed by five months to be exact. So my advice is to contact the local INS office where you live and ask not just some web-site as they don't give all the info. possible.I carry a British passport with permanent residence status.
According to my info. from the INS to get the US passport you have to surrender your existing passport,and the INS lawyers I talked to about it said that dual nationality is not permitted in the USA.
 
Viscount724
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Star_world (Reply 12):
The logic is okay except I believe it's illegal to enter the US on that Canadian passport, if you are a US citizen. He may be lucky and not get caught, but with the highly unpredictable nature of US immigration / customs these days it's not a chance I would take at all.

I believe that is generally true for almost all countries. If you hold dual citizenship (for countries that permit it...many don't) and are arriving in one of the two countries, you must use the passport of that country. If, for example, you hold both Canadian and Swiss nationality, but ran into problems in Switzerland and needed consular assistance (e.g. if you were arrested or became seriously ill while visiting Switzerland), the Canadian embassy isn't going to provide assistance if you are also Swiss. It would be the opposite if you were visiting Canada; the Swiss embassy isn't going to assist if you're also Canadian. I'm not sure if that's universally the case but I think it's the usual policy in the case of dual (or more) citizenship.
 
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legacyins
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 25):
Two weeks after my return from MEX, I'm leaving for Seattle and will take a day ferry trip to Vancouver. So technically I guess I'm leaving the country. To play it safe I'm still going to apply for the passport expedited and hope it reaches in time.

You do not need to worry about having a valid US passport if traveling across the Northern/Southern Boarders by land or sea. A valid passport is only needed at this time if you are traveling on an Air Carrier into the U.S..

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 25):
my concern is that I have had a green card for almost 10 years linked to my Canadian passport. Is there a way that the immigration officer at MIA can tell that there was a green card issued to me through my canadian passport record, and will I be questioned for that.

Your resident card is not linked to your passport. All the info is on your name,DOB and other factors. Did you check out the DOS website? Try http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
 
ACFA
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 7):
* If you do not depart the US on that same passport within this period, this will cause trouble with the INS

Since US has no exit controls, how would the INS have any knowledge of departure?
 
ACFA
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 25):
I guess they just don't want to have to return you back if you are denied. I'm assuming there is some sort of fime involved!

You are correct. Airlines are responsible for the people they bring into the country and can recieve stiff fines from Customs authorities, as well they are responsible for transporting the person back in the event of denied entry.
 
goaliemn
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Agree, I don't know how the US enforces the 6-month stay limit for Canadians since there are no departure controls from the US. The only immigration people you encounter on a flight from the US to Canada are the Canadian inspectors on arrival in Canada.

Canada does share the information with US customs. A friend of mine got burned on that once. He left after 10 months, then his next re-entry, they had where/when he crossed back into Canada. Both sides share this with each other.
 
ACFA
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 32):
Canada does share the information with US customs. A friend of mine got burned on that once. He left after 10 months, then his next re-entry, they had where/when he crossed back into Canada. Both sides share this with each other.

Good point! Hadn't thought of that one.
 
BigOrange
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RE: US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 6):
As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.

Not that simple and certainly not that legal!

Quoting Philb (Reply 11):
Well the logic would seem to be to enter using the Canadian passport and, in the 6 months available, apply for the US passport and, once obtained, leave the country showing the Canadian passport, and re-enter with the US passport.

Logic doesn't work in the US as far as USCIS goes!

Quoting Coal (Reply 10):
Interesting question and one that arose during a conversation with a friend of mine. He naturalized but for business reasons has to travel one or two days after the oath ceremony. What are his options?

Travel on his green card would be the easiest option. I'm sure they are not going to expect him to get a passport in 2 days. He should ask at the Oath swearing.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):

For whatever reason I find these out station Immigration locations to be far worse then the ones located in the USA.

Same here! I got a harder time clearing US immigration at DUB than I ever have anywhere in the US!

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