airfoilsguy
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Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:01 am

Do the Russian's still make new airliners? Particularly Antonov, Ilyushin or Tupolev?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:20 am

Cubana took delivery of an IL-96-300 in March of last year (per Planespotters.net) so at least Ilyushin is in business. And it looks like Tupolev is still making at least the Tu-204-120.
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:25 am

Yeh, we do. Even a few potentially interesting projects:

Sukhoi Super Jet SSJ - Sukhoi's civilian plane. First flight is for September 2007.
Beriev Be-200 - many pics at A.net:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team


Beriev Be-103 - rather small but anyway
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team



Some are rather know and can be easely searched at DB:
Tupolev Tu-204 - some variations like -300, -100, 120, C, Tu-214
Ilyushin Il-96
Both have very limited number of manufactured planes

There are number of other projects with unclear chances for development:
Ilyushin Il-114 and Il-112 (under design)
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team


Sukhoi Su-80 (light transport)
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team


Tupolev Tu-334 (nearly dead - very few chances)
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov - Russian AviaPhoto Team



That's what I remember from the first. There are other developments indeed (like Tu-234 etc.).

In general some things probably will be more clear after United Aviation Manufacturing Corporation will start to work.

Regards,

F.

P.S. BTW Antonov is not Russian more - it is Ukrainian. And they have An-140 and An-148.

[Edited 2007-02-19 18:26:02]
 
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solnabo
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:26 am

Sidenote:

Antonov a/c are made in Ukraine, is there any demand for An-124/225?

Micke//  Confused
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RichardPrice
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):

Antonov a/c are made in Ukraine, is there any demand for An-124/225?

Yes, there are open unfilled orders for the An-124 and the production line should recommence in 2008 after current airframe upgrades have been exhausted.
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:32 am

Airfoilsguy, this album might will help you as well:
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?album=9540

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
Antonov a/c are made in Ukraine, is there any demand for An-124/225?

Not really so. An-124 (since it was Soviet - not Russian or Ukrainian that time) can also be manufactured at Ulyanovsk at Russia.

Regards,

F.
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:00 am

Ilyushin is working basically in the Il-96-400. Cubana, Syrianair, Air Zimbabwe, Aeroflot and other airlines has expressed its interest to ask for new long-haul aircrafts.

Too, Ilyushin is working in a short / middle range airliners family program and currently has joined forces with Yakovlev and the JSC Irkut plant. The MS-21 family airplanes performs passengers, luggage and cargo transportation on the national and international routes. Will be three series:

1. MS-21-100 (for 132 passengers)
2. MS-21-200 (for 156 passengers)
3. MS-21-300 (for 174 passengers)

Tupolev is working in a new supersonic aircraft version: the Tupolev Tu-444 and in a regional jet to operate from "B" class airports...
(http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=199) for the Tu-444
(http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=124) for the Tu-414.

Antonov is working, too, in a short / medium airliner (called An-180) to accommodate up to 175 passengers. Meanwhile, the second unit of a Mryia is ready to make it's inaugural flight.

And Sukhoi, as you know is working in two projects:

1. S-80 (twin engine STOL) where Dalavia, Polar Airlines and other Russian airlines has expressed its interest.
2. Sukhoi RRJ where Aeroflot has expressed its interest.

Regards,

Gerard
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Ilyushin is working basically in the Il-96-400. Cubana, Syrianair, Air Zimbabwe, Aeroflot and other airlines has expressed its interest to ask for new long-haul aircrafts.

Sadly I think Air Zimbabwe cancelled all their orders for new planes due to the hyperinflation in the country. Syrian Air though has 2 IL 96-300 and 1 IL 96-400 on firm order, plus Aeroflot are still waiting for more of their 96's to be delivered.


Dan Smile
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting FYODOR (Reply 5):
Airfoilsguy, this album might will help you as well:

Thanks, very interesting

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
(http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=199) for the Tu-444

This is a great website! I am adding it to my favorites. Also has some great desktop photos.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Aeroflot and other airlines has expressed its interest to ask for new long-haul aircrafts

Sorry to say, but if AFLT expressed anything it is complete unwillingness to do it. It was agreement with Russian Government - for cancellation of custom fees for international airplains AFLT was supposed to buy 6 Il-96 in addition to its fleet. For the few years AFLT does all what it ever can not to do it.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
The MS-21 family airplanes

Long, long, long, long story I'm afraid.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Tupolev is working in a new supersonic aircraft version

Tupolev working over its website   I wish them success but lets be more realistic - they still can't put in order even Tu-204. Might be something (as I told before) will changed after OAK will work in full power. But local experts are rather sceptical.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Sukhoi RRJ where Aeroflot has expressed its interest

Not only them. Air Union and FLK made pre-oreders, some others declared the plans.

Regards,

F.

[Edited 2007-02-19 19:54:57]
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 8):
Thanks, very interesting

Let me recommend you one more album: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?album=9740

It is not systemized as previous one - just about Russian aviation but it is nice I guess.  Wink

F.
 
uzzzer
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:00 am

Many planes and many plans were developed, but few made it to the series. Off the top of my head:
- Il-96 (longhaul jet) delivered for Russian gov't
- Tu-204 (longhaul jet) delivered to DalAvia (Russia), BelAvia (Belarus) interested
- An-140 (regional turboprop) were delivered to various Ukrainian airliners, Azal (Azerbaijan), Yakutia (Russia)

But the most interesting battle will be in regional jet segment. Two Russian producers and a Ukrainian one come up with similar product of a 70-110 passenger jet:
- Antonov-148 (finishes certification in a few days) first deliveries to be made in 2007
- Sukhoi SuperJet 100 (first flying model to be built by the end of 2007), deliveries starting 2008/9
- Tupolev-334 - status undefined, as the plane is ready for serial producion, but apparently the Russian gov't doesn't back it anymore. Ironically, the flying models were manufactured by Antonov in Kyiv.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 11):
- An-140 (regional turboprop) were delivered to various Ukrainian airliners, Azal (Azerbaijan), Yakutia (Russia)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Trevor Thornton



Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 11):
- Antonov-148 (finishes certification in a few days) first deliveries to be made in 2007


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anton Dovbush



For those who haven't seen photos of the two aircraft yet.

Flightglobal has this report regarding the OAK reference in reply 9.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...liners-through-2015-with-half.html

[Edited 2007-02-19 23:52:08]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
concentriq
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Meanwhile, the second unit of a Mryia is ready to make it's inaugural flight.

did I miss something? when did this happen? any more info?
Mobilis In Mobili
 
Electech6299
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 3):
is there any demand for An-....225?

Hmmm, you have a space shuttle you want to move? No? Do you know anyone else that does? Be sure to let Antonov know if you hear anything....  Wink

Way too much existing competition in the large freighter class for Antonov to be competitive. Too bad, they could have recouped some of the development costs.
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
uzzzer
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Antonov is working, too, in a short / medium airliner (called An-180) to accommodate up to 175 passengers. Meanwhile, the second unit of a Mryia is ready to make it's inaugural flight.

All Antonov-180 development works were "frozen" in December 2006 due to bad economics of the airliner. It would work only with cheap gas. It had a very different design. Note the props on the rear.

Big version: Width: 450 Height: 225 File size: 15kb


MD-95 from what I know had a similar design, but was also dropped on development stage.

Antonov also "froze" An-218 widebody development, unofficially saying that the frame was outdated.

Big version: Width: 250 Height: 144 File size: 7kb


2nd Mriya An-225 is not being build at least now, however the Ukrainian Minister of Transportation made the public believe that it makes sense investing into the second frame. The first and only Mriya doesn't have enough work now due to high operation cost.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 14):
Hmmm, you have a space shuttle you want to move? No? Do you know anyone else that does? Be sure to let Antonov know if you hear anything.... Wink

Way too much existing competition in the large freighter class for Antonov to be competitive. Too bad, they could have recouped some of the development costs.

The An-225 is highly sought after actually, it is in great demand according to Antonov.

Also the An-124 fleet is also heavily worked, being pretty much the only cargo aircraft in its class.

These aircraft are not sitting around gathering dust.
 
uzzzer
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 14):
Way too much existing competition in the large freighter class for Antonov to be competitive. Too bad, they could have recouped some of the development costs.

 no  Who's competitive then?

Both An-124 "Ruslan" and An-225 "Mriya" are the biggest cargo carriers in the world. They are capable of carrying whatever 747F cannot, and A380F will not be able to fully compete neither.

At the time An-225 was built it was announced by Antonov, that An-225 will probably remain the biggest cargo carrier in the world, because no gear is available to handle greater mass.

I would agree with you if you would say that Antonov remains a niche provider due to economics, but very often when one has to deliver a power station turbine or a subway train across the world, the demand is non-elastic.
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:42 pm

Just need to agree with Uzzzer - marketing potential of An-225 for me is looking even more obvious than An-140, -148. These are projects to be developed and the demand for An-225 services is more or less clear and based on existed experience.
 
tsnamm
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 17):
but very often when one has to deliver a power station turbine or a subway train across the world, the demand is non-elastic.

[
exactly...the AN 225 and AN 124 have no comparable Western commercial counterpart...when over sized/ultra heavy lift is needed, these 2 aircraft are the only game in town. On that note, I wonder why Lockheed never came out with a commercial version of the C-5 Galaxy, being that this is the only western aircraft that could handle comparable heavy lift ops as the Antonov aircraft.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:22 pm

Uzzzer From Ukraine, joined Dec 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted Tue Feb 20 2007 11:24:19 your local time (2 hours 52 minutes 19 secs ago) and read 182 times:


Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
Antonov is working, too, in a short / medium airliner (called An-180) to accommodate up to 175 passengers. Meanwhile, the second unit of a Mryia is ready to make it's inaugural flight.


All Antonov-180 development works were "frozen" in December 2006 due to bad economics of the airliner. It would work only with cheap gas. It had a very different design. Note the props on the rear.'MD-95 from what I know had a similar design, but was also dropped on development stage
[End Quote]
Reminds me of the suggested YAK-46, pushprop, I personally think these planes would make really good
cargo-hauler due to low fuelconsumption, but not good passengerplanes due to cabin noise?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:25 pm

The Tu-444 isn't ever going to happen but it looks great - a mini concorde!

http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=199
 
amberair732
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 15):
2nd Mriya An-225 is not being build at least now,

The second frame is already partially built:-

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0699985/m/

[Edited 2007-02-20 15:37:13]
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Amberair732 (Reply 22):
The second frame is already partially built:-

Its been in that condition for about a decade.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 17):
Both An-124 "Ruslan" and An-225 "Mriya" are the biggest cargo carriers in the world. They are capable of carrying whatever 747F cannot, and A380F will not be able to fully compete neither.

At the time An-225 was built it was announced by Antonov, that An-225 will probably remain the biggest cargo carrier in the world, because no gear is available to handle greater mass.

Beriev are working on a jet which could handle about three times what the 225 can carry. The design is a little crazy, and they plan on it being amphibious, so they don't need to worry about runway lengths or loaded axle weight. Could be very interesting aircraft if it's ever built, which you have to admit is unlikely... but you never know with Russia!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-2500

http://www.sergib.agava.ru/russia/beriev/be/2500/img/be2500_1.jpg


Dan Smile
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Electech6299
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 19):
I wonder why Lockheed never came out with a commercial version of the C-5 Galaxy, being that this is the only western aircraft that could handle comparable heavy lift ops as the Antonov aircraft.

Uh, because there isn't enough of a market?

Quoting FYODOR (Reply 18):
marketing potential of An-225 for me is looking even more obvious

But how does that compare with this statement?

Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 17):
Antonov remains a niche provider

If you want to focus your eyes on the cargo that can't fit into a 747F, you are looking at a very small niche market. Sure, the demand is non-elastic and pays well per piece, but there isn't enough of it. It's too much easier to design parts that fit into more economical transport options. I wasn't suggesting that there is competition in this extremely limited market, I was saying that to be feasible in the market, you need to fly more often. To fly more often means taking a share of smaller cargo. But the Antonov freighters don't compete well with the Airbus and Boeing freighters. Why would you build more planes to serve a market that is already saturated?

Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 15):
The first and only Mriya doesn't have enough work now due to high operation cost.

Now, if Antonov could find a way to make a VLA freighter that was more economical than boat, rail and road options, perhaps they could create a market by convincing engineers to design more things to be transported fully assembled, instead of transporting in pieces and assembling on site. There are pros and cons to either method, but the existing options lean heavily against Antonov.
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
concentriq
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:12 am

I was reading someplace that Ruslan's are overworked actually: most of the frames have 2x designed cycles and hours on them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-124
That is why Antonov KB is talking about building more of them in new and improved -200 config.


As to second Mrya: I have searched everywhere and havent found any solid reference to another one being built.

Both are in a niche market, but -124 seems to be used quite often. -225 however as I found out is quite expensive to operate, and is only used in extreme situations.

Edited: Added link.

[Edited 2007-02-20 20:16:53]
Mobilis In Mobili
 
uzzzer
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:54 pm

What's good in all of this, including An-180 and An-218 dropping, is that Antonov is live and kicking. The optimists still have hopes for the "big game", including competition with A and B, but form what it looks like right now, Antonov will stay in two niches:
- heavy and superheavy cargo aircraft
- short and medium range passenger/cargo reliable turboprops and jets

Russian manufacturers are in greater trouble - they are not focused on particular markets and products, which leads to silly Superjet vs. Tu-334 competitions. There's a political demand for a full array of aircraft products delivered, since the political elite is still in "we have to compete with the West" mode.

My prediction is that Antonov will choose a different approach, and will sooner or later end up in Airbus or Boeing's hugs.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:21 pm

What ever happened to the two engined IL-98? Do the Russians make competitive powerplants that could work on that design?
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Do The Russian's Still Make New Airliners?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:14 am

PavlovsDog, nothing happened. Its not exist.  Wink

Powerplants still stays the problem. PS-90A is now much better and safer than before but lets be honest - it is not the top-thing. For SSJ it will be joint development with Snecma - SaM146.

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