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deltadawg
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Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:46 pm

Now that Delta has established several routes from the US to Africa (ATL-DKR-JNB & JFK-ACC) it remains the only US carrier flying to Africa. Do any of the other US carriers have any plans either near or far for routes to Africa? To my thinking JNB is an obvious choice but also Cairo and Nairobi would seem like possibilities.

I have been sitting on about 550K SkyMiles along with $1600 now in DL credits due to overbookings (ATL-MDW the latest on Monday) and am thinking about taking my wife to S. Africa, thats what made me think about other carriers, right now it seems DL and SAA have the South African market wrapped up.

Any thoughts?
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PanAm747
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:13 pm

Well, South African code-shares with United at IAD (maybe one day ORD?), do I don't think that'd be too likely...

There's always talk of AA doing Miami to South Africa...

Continental has wanted to do EWR-LOS for a while, but a dispute with the Virgin group has really put the brakes on that.

NW? US? Probably not.

One needs a very strong demand for O&D traffic to make a route work, and outside of the metro New York and south Florida area, there's not a huge amount.

The logistics of operating to Africa can be rough. The European airlines have been doing it for a very long time, and many of them have a loyal following. Couple this with the plethora of alliances and ability to route USA-Africa passengers through a European hub, it just strikes me as a very tough market to crack into.
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rwsea
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:21 pm

As mentioned, there's the ever-present buzz about AA potentially starting MIA-South Africa. Other than that, don't see too much in the near term. CO has 2 777's coming this year, but rumors are that they're headed to India. Otherwise, while CO might be the most likely to expand to Africa, they won't really have aircraft to do it until the 787's come.

As far as DL, I don't think we've seen the end of their African expansion. I think we'll see CAI in the next year or two, and maybe another city from JFK on the western coast of Africa.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 2):
As mentioned, there's the ever-present buzz about AA potentially starting MIA-South Africa.

Ive always thought AA should try SJU-JNB. The aircraft they have cant make it from MIA-JNB in both directions. If they fly SJU-South Africa, flights from other hubs can hook up with them in SJU. Hell, its just as plausable as DL flying from HNL to Australia.
It is what it is...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:26 pm

You might see AA from Miami to South Africa in the next 2-3 years, but it is still a huge "if".

Though Delta Airlines is not the only US airline to Africa. North American Airlines flies to Lagos and Accra, and will soon be codesharing with Virgin Nigeria.
a.
 
soups
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
and will soon be codesharing with Virgin Nigeria.

Possibly NA leaving the ACC market and connecting PAX via LOS

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
it remains the only US carrier flying to Africa

North American flies US- los/acc
is world airways/airlines american? they fly to Luanda
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:52 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Though Delta Airlines is not the only US airline to Africa. North American Airlines flies to Lagos and Accra, and will soon be codesharing with Virgin Nigeria.

I stand corrected, even though North American is more charter service than anything else. Last time I checked they only had 1 or 2 flights per week.
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MAH4546
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:04 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 6):

I stand corrected, even though North American is more charter service than anything else. Last time I checked they only had 1 or 2 flights per week.

North American Airlines service to Africa is scheduled, it is no way "charter". They fly three flights a week to Lagos and once weekly to Accra. Frequency does not determine if a flight is a charter flight, and North American Airlines is a scheduled airline, although they do run a large charter operation, just like Frontier, Northwest, and others.

Quoting Soups (Reply 5):
is world airways/airlines american? they fly to Luanda

It is charter service on behalf of Sonair.
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bimmerkid19
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
Ive always thought AA should try SJU-JNB. The aircraft they have cant make it from MIA-JNB in both directions. If they fly SJU-South Africa, flights from other hubs can hook up with them in SJU. Hell, its just as plausable as DL flying from HNL to Australia.

Are you kidding? That route wouldn't work. I think a MIA - DKR or GVAC (Sal - Amilcar Cabral International, Cape Verde) (Tech stop or 5th freedom stop) - JNB or CPT would be better. Anybody second my motion?
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MAH4546
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:54 pm

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 8):

Are you kidding? That route wouldn't work. I think a MIA - DKR or GVAC (Sal - Amilcar Cabral International, Cape Verde) (Tech stop or 5th freedom stop) - JNB or CPT would be better. Anybody second my motion?

Seconded. AA will fly SJU-JNB when Delta flies to Antarctica.
a.
 
bimmerkid19
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Seconded. AA will fly SJU-JNB when Delta flies to Antarctica.

 checkmark   stirthepot  You also forgot.. "..and when hell freezes over" !!  Big grin  Silly
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B747-437B
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
Ive always thought AA should try SJU-JNB.

Well, Delta did fly ACC-SJU very briefly and the flight was very full by all accounts.  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
bimmerkid19
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 11):
Well, Delta did fly ACC-SJU very briefly

When?
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panamair
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 12):
Quoting B747-437B (Reply 11):
Well, Delta did fly ACC-SJU very briefly

When?

It was a diversion for a ACC-JFK flight.
 
bimmerkid19
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 13):
was a diversion for a ACC-JFK flight.

 banghead  WTF LOL thats not a scheduled service.. lol
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QXatFAT
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 10):
You also forgot.. "..and when hell freezes over" !!

Welcome!

Hell, Michigan

Like said earlyer, SJU will never work to JNB. The only thing to work for AA would be threw MIA. That will not happen for quite some time though. The only airline that has the ability to go against DL is...no one! If anything CO can go into CAI but will stop there. DL I can see expanding more in Africa to places like NBO, CAI, and LOS. NBO out of JFK, CAI out of JFK and ATL maybe, and LOS out of ATL.
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B747-437B
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:45 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 13):
It was a diversion for a ACC-JFK flight.

You mean the entire COO-ACC-SJU pattern that day wasn't done to cater to the large Puerto Rican VFR traffic from Benin?  Wink

[Edited 2007-02-21 11:45:40]
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Thread starter):
right now it seems DL and SAA have the South African market wrapped up.

That's a bit of a simplification. A lot of traffic connects through Europe as well. Many of the people travelling to Africa on business have partners and associates in Europe. As a result, it's often a net time saving to hit both Europe and Africa on the same trip. It can also be less expensive.

My father and his partners in Mozambique do this more often than not when travelling to Africa. In fact, I don't think any of them have tried DL's new service yet. They don't seem real thrilled about the idea of spending that much time on a 767. Personally, I love the 767 but I have a hard time imagining being on one for that long.

Regarding the question of the thread starter, the best bet in my mind would be AA out of Miami. In the past, I saw the SAA 744 getting loaded full many times when in MIA on my way to UIO. If AA could feed and fill it then, then they can certainly do it now. All they really need is a connecting flight to BHM.  Smile When? When?
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albird87
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:11 pm

AA will start up a service i think from MIA to JNB/CPT when they try to stop expanding into asia (with JAL and CX as partners there is no point!!) and then focus on other expansions else where. SAA always seemed to have full flights from MIA onto JNB and only left MIA and moved it to ATL due to the partnership with DL. If only AA had some bigger equipment to be able to do the route with no restrictions (i dont think it could be done fully loaded) then AA would have a great service to africa. Also then possible other destinations in Africa could be a great idea for them using some 767s (could there 767s do these routes???)
 
IAD380
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
One needs a very strong demand for O&D traffic to make a route work, and outside of the metro New York and south Florida area, there's not a huge amount.

You are forgetting the metro Washington DC area. SA and ET already fly from IAD to Africa. GH flew to BWI before it went bankrupt. In addition to existing flights from IAD to DKR, ADD, and JNB, I think that the metro Washington area could generate sufficient O&D traffic to ACC and LOS, and perhaps NBO. There are large African immigrant communities in and around Washington. Diplomats, politicians, journalists, and academicians are another source of traffic for direct flights between Washington and Africa. Obviously, UA would be the American carrier to open routes from IAD to Africa. However, I do not know if UA eventually plans to do so.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 10):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Seconded. AA will fly SJU-JNB when Delta flies to Antarctica.

You also forgot.. "..and when hell freezes over" !!

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, hell is located beneath Antarctica, and therefore it's already frozen over? I mean, when I bite the dust, Antarctica is about the last place I'd want to go ...  Wow!
 
COEI2007
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Continental has wanted to do EWR-LOS for a while, but a dispute with the Virgin group has really put the brakes on that.

I think problems with security, and concerns from crew, were also a big factor
 
mah584jr
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:13 am

I don't see many routes going from the US directly any African country appearing in the near future. There just isn't too much demand to fly there from the US, otherwise there would be many more African routes.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 19):
You are forgetting the metro Washington DC area. SA and ET already fly from IAD to Africa. GH flew to BWI before it went bankrupt. In addition to existing flights from IAD to DKR, ADD, and JNB, I think that the metro Washington area could generate sufficient O&D traffic to ACC and LOS, and perhaps NBO.

That's correct. Washington is the second largest US-Africa market, after New York City. Miami is the third largest, but Houston is not at all far behind for fourth.
a.
 
CXA330300
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 8):
Are you kidding? That route wouldn't work. I think a MIA - DKR or GVAC (Sal - Amilcar Cabral International, Cape Verde) (Tech stop or 5th freedom stop) - JNB or CPT would be better. Anybody second my motion?

CPT wouldn't require a tech stop with a 772ER: JNB does mainly due to its "hot and high" status.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
bimmerkid19
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 24):
CPT wouldn't require a tech stop with a 772ER

Im assuming this tech stop in both directions on the MIA to JNB route and only on the return leg of CPT to MIA due to winds as a precaution. but if there's enough then the plane shall press on towards MIA then...
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albird87
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 24):
CPT wouldn't require a tech stop with a 772ER: JNB does mainly due to its "hot and high" status

So AA could then serve south africa non stop and all they have to do is have a CPT-JNB route to serve JNB as well and then stop again at CPT before the flight to MIA. I know that malaysia do this route when they fly to sao paulo- CPT-JNB- and then onto malaysia. same routing on the way back.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Anymore US Carriers Going To Africa Soon?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 26):
So AA could then serve south africa non stop and all they have to do is have a CPT-JNB route to serve JNB as well and then stop again at CPT before the flight to MIA. I know that malaysia do this route when they fly to sao paulo- CPT-JNB- and then onto malaysia. same routing on the way back.

Yes AA could serve MIA-CPT-JNB however the routing would most likely stop in West Africa to maximize yields. It's been rumored: MIA-LOS/ACC/DKR-JNB. The 787 could make MIA-JNB feasible.

Of the big 6 not serving Africa, I'd put money on CO and/or AA being next. But then lately I have learned to not underestimate UA. Their IAD hub would make a very logical African gateway.