mandala499
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Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:03 pm

Another accident/incident today involving Adam Air, reported hard/baulked landing at Surabaya.
Runway was blocked, airport closed, several injuries including pax trapped in the aircraft. Conflicting reports as to the extent of the damage.
Aircraft has been towed to Merpati Maintenance Center.

No matter how many accidents/incidents/writeoffs/loss of life, if they don't change, this will continue unfortunately. I guess they'll have to lower their lowest fares again now!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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zeke
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:12 pm

Would be a bit hard to spot the new wreck, between the Merparti and Lion Air wrecks.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:30 pm

The saga of Adam Air continues, as, unfortunately, nothing has changed since the airline's fatal crash less than 2 months ago. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame it on someone or something else this time as well. Let's just wait for the next fatal crash.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:33 pm

Forgot to mention that the flight in question was KI172 between Jakarta (CGK) and Surabaya (SUB) and the incident happened around 2 hours ago.
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:01 pm

OK, just saw the pics on TV, it looks like a write off, behind the wing box, it appears that the tail has bent down...
Another classic down the drain at Adam Air... now they're beginning to make the -200s look a hell of a lot safer! LOL

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:13 pm

That's what I thought as well was I saw the pictures. The back section looks cracked. I'd very surprised if this frame ever took to the skies again. It is likely to join the other assorted wreckages around the Merpati Maintenance Facility.
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injurie

Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:16 pm

Well, those scrappers in SUB is having a good year... first was a Lion MD80, they just finished chopping up PK-YTA last month, and now they got a new job...

Windshear suspected...

Mandala499

[Edited 2007-02-21 12:17:57]
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:45 pm

Seems to be a -300 series, but I couldn't find out the registration yet.
 
SEPilot
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:53 pm

How do these guys keep their insurance? Or do they?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
it looks like a write off, behind the wing box, it appears that the tail has bent down...

Any pictures?
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:51 pm

it's KKV... I am told...
Pics? Here...

Taken from:
http://www.liputan6.com/view/7,137754,1,0,1172062087.html

The full link...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
timboflier215
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:16 pm

OUCH!! I'm no engineer, but to do that to an a/c, you must have to land pretty hard! Hope everyone recovers from their injuries.
 
PHKLM
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:19 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 10):
it's KKV... I am told...

A write-off within three months after receiving this aircraft, impressive.
 
SEPilot
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 12):
A write-off within three months after receiving this aircraft, impressive.

I repeat my previous question; and am I glad I'm not insuring them!
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
A342
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
I'd very surprised if this frame ever took to the skies again.

With Adam Air, you never know. Just adjust the trim and it's fixed.  Wink

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 8):
How do these guys keep their insurance? Or do they?

You're assuming they had one before. Really ?  Wink
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:44 pm

Probably due to the tight connections of Adam Air and the government, they may have some protection to keep being insured by domestic companies. International insurers and Reinsurerers will probably raise their premium rates to uneconomic levels or Adam Air will find some really dumb company to insure them at reasonable rates.
Still, International insurance organizations like Lloyds of London, will have to say that they cannot take any further risks with Adam Air.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:05 pm

Adam Air officials are going out of their way in the local media here, as we speak, to blame the incident on the weather, although plenty of other aircraft landed at Surabaya's Juanda International Airport right around the same time as this one. This is gonna be a classic story of shifting the blame again as well as, very likely, coaxing the media into keeping the incident as quiet as possible. Nothing has changed since last month, and nothing will change after this incident.
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:11 pm

The difference is...
The Suherman family isn't going on the front anymore after last month, they have now installed a new Commercial Director, a Mr. Gugi Pringwa, as the main spokesperson... I won't be surprised if the original directors name have been removed from the company documents... Many new "implants" at the top posts now at Adam... the old family have largely hid themselves...

If it was windshear, why was there no go around? Otherwise, must have been a very bad sink to cause this... the crew isn't themselves bad, mind U, no matter how good the crew is, somehow, after they get into Adam and don't get out, things start happening to their brains... *quoted from someone who left KI*

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 17):
they have now installed a new Commercial Director, a Mr. Gugi Pringwa, as the main spokesperson...

The poor guy must currently be wishing he didn't get out of bed this morning. He's being grilled left and right all over the news...
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:06 am

Well, I doubt he'd be interested in getting out of bed at all lately...
This week he had to deal with Adam Air staff being accused of airport tax fraud.
The week before, follow up on the Social Insurance problems
The week before was about the verdicts of the 17 pilots Adam Air is suing
The week before it was a hell of a lot more stuff...

I wonder how much they are paying him for this job?
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
PHKLM
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injurie

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 14):
With Adam Air, you never know. Just adjust the trim and it's fixed.

Kudos for the guy that can fix this by adjusting the trim Big grin

Big version: Width: 390 Height: 167 File size: 5kb


(C) Reuters - http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/pictures/JAK11.htm
 
cHabu
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:32 am

Someday i'll fly away......
 
ZKNZA
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:35 am

How is this airline still allowed to fly?
To do that to a 737, you must be really trying.
Typically for an Indonesian airline, they wont accept responsibility, when clearly they should.
The Indonesian authorities need to get their s**t together.
 
na
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:46 am

I´m going to visit Bali again soon. If not anything before, this is the final proof that I will definitely fly a domestic carrier within Indonesia. Indonesias accident rate tops that of Nigeria.
 
cHabu
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:47 am

Hiya,

Am i correct in the assumption, this can only be done when an aircraft lands very hard on the runway ?

CU
Someday i'll fly away......
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting NA (Reply 23):
this is the final proof that I will definitely fly a domestic carrier within Indonesia.

Don't push your luck  Wink
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
brons2
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injurie

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 10):
it's KKV... I am told...
Pics? Here...

Taken from:
http://www.liputan6.com/view/7,137754,1,0,1172062087.html

The full link...

Mandala499

holy sheet!

man that was one hard landing.

The only thing I can say about all this, is that if you ever find yourself in Indonesia, and you value your life, don't fly Adam Air.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting NA (Reply 23):
If not anything before, this is the final proof that I will definitely fly a domestic carrier within Indonesia.

You shouldn't have any issues flying Garuda or Air Asia Indonesia for your domestic travel, but I guess that if you are only planning to visit Bali, you could as well fly directly into DPS, thereby avoiding domestic travel altogether. Just let us know if you need some assistance.
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:35 am

Government has announced it is grounding Adam Air's 733 fleet... (wonder about the 734/735 types) pending the outcome of the investigation.

A preventive grounding has been issued on KKV... well, it's not as if it's going to fly tomorrow is it with that bend!
Now one pax on the flight seems to have claimed one engine had failed prior to landing.

Adam Air is being audited...

This could be exciting. Or maybe this accident provides a perfect opportunity to divert people's attention from KKW's disappearance.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Jamake1
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:54 am

I am just curious...have the wreckage and human remains been recovered from the Adam Air accident in January?
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 28):
Government has announced it is grounding Adam Air's 733 fleet...

That'll be a third of the fleet then, if true. I'm already looking forward to what's gonna happen at the airport tomorrow then. I guess the government would want to be seen doing something, but what purpose will this serve again?
 
PHKLM
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 28):
This could be exciting. Or maybe this accident provides a perfect opportunity to divert people's attention from KKW's disappearance.

You would say you have to be pretty ignorant to fly AdamAir these days.
From our last discussion I recall people in Indonesia are quite price-sensitive, to put it mildly, but I reckon this is rather stressing the image of AdamAir as a unsafe airline rather than diverting away the attention of the flying public.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 29):
I am just curious...have the wreckage and human remains been recovered from the Adam Air accident in January?

The government has decided to let go of all that, officially because the funds for such a recovery operation are not available - foreign expertise would have to be attracted - but it is a public secret that quite some interested parties are actually not unhappy with this outcome. The only real action that has been taken after this fatal incident seems to be that Boeing will somehow be the subject of legal action. In true Indonesian style, yet again the blame is laid with external parties. Indonesians are very bad at if not incapable of admitting mistakes.
 
KevinSmith
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injurie

Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:56 am

Indonesian Airlines..........

I take some of that back on second thought. Garuda was pretty good. I was not a fan of Trigana. On Trigana it was cargo first people second.

[Edited 2007-02-21 21:10:00]
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
ConjureMe
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
In true Indonesian style, yet again the blame is laid with external parties. Indonesians are very bad at if not incapable of admitting mistakes.

Wow! Some hostility there or what?
Never let the plane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes ago.
 
nitrohelper
Posts: 406
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting ConjureMe (Reply 34):

No Hostility, just the fact. They can't stand to say we made a mistake. Its always someone else that causes the problems. They are wonderful people that are not well served by their "sort of" government.
 
mli717fan
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 20):
Kudos for the guy that can fix this by adjusting the trim Big grin

Dang, those things are sturdy. It's bent, but it didn't break. Think about this and the Aloha "Convertible Airliner" incident. Not to mention GOL and WN crashing their 737s through walls and then returning them to service. Crazy.

Glad everyone survived, it must have been terrifying nonetheless.
 
Electech6299
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Mli717fan (Reply 36):
Dang, those things are sturdy. It's bent, but it didn't break.

Did you see the pictures in the link from reply 21? Especially this one. If that ain't broke, I don't know what is.

But yes, the frame was solid and this will further contribute to the stellar safety record of the 737 series. Yet another frame w/o without a single fatality. (A sad contrast to KKW...)
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
Electech6299
Posts: 606
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
Boeing will somehow be the subject of legal action

Hmmm, I wonder if Boeing is going to start a counter-suit against Adam Air now? They keep giving Boeing products bad press! It seems that Adam Air has nothing better to do than push Boeing products far, far beyond their limits and then get them on TV when they finally fail. Sounds like material for a defamation suit to me!  Wink
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
mli717fan
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 37):
Did you see the pictures in the link from reply 21? Especially this one. If that ain't broke, I don't know what is.

But yes, the frame was solid and this will further contribute to the stellar safety record of the 737 series. Yet another frame w/o without a single fatality. (A sad contrast to KKW...)

Oh yeah, it is a write-off. I just meant that the airplane stayed intact well enough to keep the passengers safe(er?). Surely, if the airplane would have separated there would have been many more injuries and almost surely some deaths.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting CHabu (Reply 24):
Hiya,

Am i correct in the assumption, this can only be done when an aircraft lands very hard on the runway ?

I'm pretty sure that is why the fuselage has a bend at the bottom, and the tail is on the ground.

Reminds me of the McDonnell Douglas DC-9 which made a hard touchdown, and it's tail split off and it hit the ground.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
BladeLWS
Posts: 358
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:51 am

WOW! I'm surprised the gear didn't collapse after a landing like that!
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 296
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:54 am

According to the book: Great Airliners V2: Douglas DC-8. Test aircraft (DC-8#2) suffered a hard landing at Edwards on May 14, 1959 that resulted in the rear fuselage buckling aft fo the wing (it hit the ground) and one fot he engines breaking away. Apparently the plane was repaired and flew with United for a number of years and was retired in 1978.
 
9MMAR
Posts: 1728
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:02 pm

First and foremost, I would like to add another two more photos to the already impressive collection of this tragedy. Sorry for the quality, as it was scanned from today's daily in my domicile.

Big version: Width: 1656 Height: 963 File size: 426kb

Moments after the incident. Some of the passengers are still seen fleeing the scene. Emergency slides from all four exit doors were still intact. It looks like the incident happened during a downpour. The above diagrams shows the chronological event of the incident.


Big version: Width: 708 Height: 383 File size: 84kb

A photo inside the aircraft during the panic situation. Passengers were seen struggling to get out. Note the upper part of the cabin. All torn out.

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 12):
A write-off within three months after receiving this aircraft, impressive.

They received it from Varig, isn't it? It started serving KI on 8 December 2006.

Quoting ZKNZA (Reply 22):
Typically for an Indonesian airline, they wont accept responsibility, when clearly they should.

It also refers to the majority of Indonesian themselves (sorry, but it's TRUE). My workers as the simplest example. Never ever admit mistakes and all the time divert something to someone/something else should it went wrong. If something good came out from something they will somehow trying to divert the success to them, "If not because of me, bla bla bla...".

Quoting NA (Reply 23):
I´m going to visit Bali again soon. If not anything before, this is the final proof that I will definitely fly a domestic carrier within Indonesia.

As HB-IWC mentioned, I won't hesitate to fly GA or AirAsia domestically. Batavia and Sriwijaya are also have a good record. But anyhow, you can always fly to DPS from other points outside Indonesia. Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand are some of the options. MH, SQ, TG, QR and other good carriers fly to DPS from these countries.

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 26):
is that if you ever find yourself in Indonesia, and you value your life, don't fly Adam Air.

Adam's tail livery is a winged creature like Peter Pan gracing its wing. Don't you think it's about time they cut off the wing?

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 28):
Government has announced it is grounding Adam Air's 733 fleet

Just like they did when they order all 732s to be grounded forever somewhere in 2008, if I am not mistaken due to a lot of incidents involving 732s. Are they going to ground say... 734s too if 2 or 3 new incidents involving the type?

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 28):
Adam Air is being audited...

I wonder by who? I was like, have you ever dealt with any Indonesian auditor? I had. A complete joke!

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
Indonesians are very bad at if not incapable of admitting mistakes.



Quoting ConjureMe (Reply 34):
Wow! Some hostility there or what?

Again, it's TRUE. A fact.

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 38):
Hmmm, I wonder if Boeing is going to start a counter-suit against Adam Air now?

Someone should do something to this carrier. Since the government "CAN NOT" do anything to them, maybe Boeing is strong enough to bring this carrier to justice.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:53 pm

9MMAR,
Yes, dealing with auditors (especially regulatory auditors) can be a total joke... But when someone grounds your plane because they can't find envelopes for them slipped in the maintenance logs or because there ain't any violation, then he grounds the plane at 11pm because of a minor log deficiency (without any apparent reported problems, and the log deficiency was covered by a more complete separate log), the humour is lost...

And btw, have they upgraded the runway strength at PNK since 2002? if not one of those carriers you mentioned have been operating the 734 there in violation of regulations...

Btw, outstanding photos from the paper, thanks for sharing with us!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
ismangun
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 6:35 pm

RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:57 pm

Indonesian Government (and the people shoving money to them) should change quick. These rapid increase in accident/incident trends really shows that there's something not right (or totally wrong!) in the system.

Authority's move to ground Adam's 733s just show how incompetent in seeing the big picture. They just too blind to admit that the system caused all of these accidents/incidents.

They're already at a stage which they believe that two wrong makes a right.

Cheers,
If it's an Airbus, I'll take the bus
 
9MMAR
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:18 pm

RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 44):
Yes, dealing with auditors (especially regulatory auditors) can be a total joke... But when someone grounds your plane because they can't find envelopes for them slipped in the maintenance logs or because there ain't any violation, then he grounds the plane at 11pm because of a minor log deficiency (without any apparent reported problems, and the log deficiency was covered by a more complete separate log), the humour is lost...

Indeed Mandala499. Considering how good you are to me, I am not comfortable of discussing this topic as you are a handful of Indonesians who are not like the vast majority.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 44):
And btw, have they upgraded the runway strength at PNK since 2002?

I have no acquintance working in PNK, so I couldn't answer the question. But again, you have highlighted me about it several times. Maybe it's worth checking out the actual status of the runway at PNK. The carrier, which operates 734s in PNK may done it on revenue basis, not on complying to the regulation basis. But one thing for sure, my flight log tell no lies.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 44):
outstanding photos from the paper, thanks for sharing with us!

My pleasure. Catch you soon.  wave 
 
usair320
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:53 am

RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 20):

That must hae been one hell of a landing..............
 
September11
Posts: 3293
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting CcrlR (Reply 40):
Reminds me of the McDonnell Douglas DC-9 which made a hard touchdown, and it's tail split off and it hit the ground.

This is the Eastern Airlines DC-9 in Pensacola, Florida (PNS)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Lucak
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier F. Bobadilla - Iberian Spotters

Airliners.net of the Future
 
rsg85
Posts: 180
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RE: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:37 pm

Any closeups of landing gear? how did the tires survive

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