sampa737
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AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:16 am

When Frontier decided to enter the Memphis market (Denver, Orlando and Las Vegas), all heck seemed to break loose. Air Tran added Orlando from Memphis. Northwest upgraded Denver service, and increased Orlando and Las Vegas flights.

Awhile back American Eagle initiated 2 daily flights from Memphis to Miami. Did Northwest challenge this at all? I don't remember anything. If not, why not? Does Northwest see more of a threat from Frontier than American? And, does anyone know how well the American flights are doing?

Thanks!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:25 am

Some things to think about...

Miami is a relatively weak station for NW, with only 7 daily flights (3xDTW, 3xMSP, and 1xMEM).

AA has a hub at MIA, and is only flying 2 RJ's daily

AA is not in the business of charging lower fares than other legacy carriers in the same markets.

The addition of AA in the market was not going to cut into NW's bottom line much (since NW only had one daily MEM-MIA flight, and I would be willing to bet it is filled mainly with connecting passengers.)

Most of the MEM originating traffic on the route on AA are probably latin american connections... a segment that NW can't really serve that well anyway. Also, these flights are filled with MIA based AAdvantage members who probably just connected in DFW on AA before the n/s flights were added.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:22 pm

Of course Northwest responded. Less than a week after American Eagle announced Miami-Memphis, Northwest upgraded the daily flight from an A319 to an A320, and added a second daily flight. The second flight was cut last year when Northwest made huge cuts in domestic capacity.
a.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Of course Northwest responded. Less than a week after American Eagle announced Miami-Memphis, Northwest upgraded the daily flight from an A319 to an A320, and added a second daily flight. The second flight was cut last year when Northwest made huge cuts in domestic capacity

Really? I never knew this. Does anyone know if the second flight may return?
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Thanks for the replies. Just seeing the response from Air Tran and Northwest to Frontier made me think of AA and Miami out of Memphis. One of those questions I always wanted to ask but never did.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:51 pm

speaking of AirTran...why would they have added a MEM-MCO? It's been kinda asked on the other thread, but it just seems odd if they are partnered with Frontier.
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:01 pm

I'm with you there. Obviously NWA would respond, but Air Tran? And they resonded first, didn't they? I wonder if UA will upgrade from regionals back to 737s??
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 6):
I'm with you there. Obviously NWA would respond, but Air Tran? And they resonded first, didn't they? I wonder if UA will upgrade from regionals back to 737s??

Seriously! How long has it been since UA flew MEM-DEN on the 737? I remember flying ValuJet and having to use the tarmac because both of the jetways ValuJet normally used were occupied by UA 737s. There was an article a few years ago in the Memphis paper about how United was flying 737s out of MEM...seemed like a PR piece.
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:24 pm

I just remember picking up a friend that came in from Denver some time ago. He came in on a 737 and it was packed. So, not long after, when United pulled out of Memphis, I was shocked. Now, it's nothing but regionals flying for United to Denver and Chicago. I also remember the paper making a big deal that UA was one of the first airlines in the history of the airport and pulling out was sad for Memphis.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 8):
I just remember picking up a friend that came in from Denver some time ago. He came in on a 737 and it was packed. So, not long after, when United pulled out of Memphis, I was shocked. Now, it's nothing but regionals flying for United to Denver and Chicago. I also remember the paper making a big deal that UA was one of the first airlines in the history of the airport and pulling out was sad for Memphis.

Agreed. Didn't United fly from here to IAD for a while?
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:29 am

ahhhhh...good point...You must understand NWA's long history with LCCs.


NWA MO with LCCS, is to fight the mat every turn. Back in 1997, When Western Pac was flying, NW served COS from MSP, DTW and MEM. Even though W7 never flew to any NW hub. Further back in 1993, NW considered buildign a hub in RNO to drive QQ out of business.

On the other hand, NW mostly ignores Legacies. Legacies dont threaten NW's high fare structure for local traffic, also Legacies can fight back.

I remember back in the 1990s when I was at AA, we had 5 daily DFW-MSP and so did NW. AA added a 6th and NW did nothing. About 6 months later they added a 6th.

The only market where NW can get nasty vis-a-vis a legacy is ORD-MSP. When AA put that market on sale, NW got pissed and put abunch of AA markets on sale.

NW is a classic bully
 
FATFlyer
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
Further back in 1993, NW considered buildign a hub in RNO to drive QQ out of business.

And now NW does not fly to Reno at all. How things change.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:57 am

Yeah, I remember United Express flying IAD for a time. I can't remember when they flew it and when they stopped. Guess NWA swooped in again! Can't blame them. I'm glad NWA protects its turf...to a degree!  Smile
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 12):
Yeah, I remember United Express flying IAD for a time. I can't remember when they flew it and when they stopped. Guess NWA swooped in again! Can't blame them. I'm glad NWA protects its turf...to a degree!

But now the only Washington option from Memphis is DCA, I believe.
 
JohnJ
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting JetBlueLuv (Reply 13):
But now the only Washington option from Memphis is DCA, I believe.

Northwest also flies MEM-BWI with 2x CRJ, 1x A319.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:26 pm

True. I just wish the IAD flight would come back.
 
jetjeanes
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:36 pm

American Eagle to Mia from here in Memphis would not cause much stink as i cant imagine anyone wanting to fly one
from here to mia. I would rather connect thru Atl With Dl or Fl., More exciteing..
i can see for 80 miles
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting Jetjeanes (Reply 16):
American Eagle to Mia from here in Memphis would not cause much stink as i cant imagine anyone wanting to fly one
from here to mia. I would rather connect thru Atl With Dl or Fl., More exciteing..

What on earth are you talking about? American Eagle already flies Miami-Memphis. They have for almost two years.
a.
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:36 pm

From what I have read, the loads are pretty good, too. They must be in order for these 2 flights to continue as they have. If my points weren't with Delta, I'd probably be flying AA, getting the day flight to Sao Paulo. I'm glad AA has seen this as success.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 18):
From what I have read, the loads are pretty good, too. They must be in order for these 2 flights to continue as they have. If my points weren't with Delta, I'd probably be flying AA, getting the day flight to Sao Paulo. I'm glad AA has seen this as success.

Me too...I'd love to see some AA 737s at MEM, but I'm happy with how things are now. I'd like to see MEM-JFK on AA or some NY destination
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:58 am

Getting way off the subject, but.............I hate seeing more and more DL regionals. And yea, it'd be cool to see something other than red tails on a jet in MEM! AA 737's would be cool. And also CO 737 back. But, again I'm thankful for NWA in MEM.
 
alphascan
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
The only market where NW can get nasty vis-a-vis a legacy is ORD-MSP. When AA put that market on sale, NW got pissed and put abunch of AA markets on sale.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s AA initiated MSP/LAX service. NW (Bob Fornaro actually) responded with DFW/LAX and grabbed a bunch of Asian traffic while at the same time trashing the DFW/LAX market. Crandall caved very quickly.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
The only market where NW can get nasty vis-a-vis a legacy is ORD-MSP. When AA put that market on sale, NW got pissed and put abunch of AA markets on sale.

NW is a classic bully

No. A classic bully would be the one who started the fight in the first place. NW would be the classic defender of its house--in the case you cited.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 20):
And also CO 737 back.

I dunno if my mom just didn't know what type of plane she was on, but she flew up to EWR from MEM a while back, and it was on a 737, according to her.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 22):
No. A classic bully would be the one who started the fight in the first place. NW would be the classic defender of its house--in the case you cited.

As the #3 carrier in the market, I find it amusing you would refer to AA as a bully in the ORD-MSP market
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 24):
As the #3 carrier in the market, I find it amusing you would refer to AA as a bully in the ORD-MSP market

Well, then, why would the #3 guy want to cut it's prices? To take away customers from NW? I find it amusing you would call the airline that was trying to protect its market share a bully. I guess we are both easily amused.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Of course Northwest responded. Less than a week after American Eagle announced Miami-Memphis, Northwest upgraded the daily flight from an A319 to an A320, and added a second daily flight. The second flight was cut last year when Northwest made huge cuts in domestic capacity.

NW almost always upgrades the MIA flight when the Spring Break period comes around. I used to do the
cargo sales for them in MIA and that additional aircraft was a big help in the period btwn Valentines Day
and Mothers Day
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting JetBlueLuv (Reply 23):
I dunno if my mom just didn't know what type of plane she was on, but she flew up to EWR from MEM a while back, and it was on a 737, according to her.

Was probably an A319. It looks almost the same. NWA doesn't own any 737s. I believe the only Boeing they fly is the 757.
 
nosedive
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 27):
I believe the only Boeing they fly is the 757.

Ummmm 747-400s? Of course, those hardly, if ever, land in MEM.
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 28):
Ummmm 747-400s? Of course, those hardly, if ever, land in MEM.

I should have clarified...I believe the only Boeing they fly, out of MEM, is the 757.

As for the 747-400, I don't know if they ever flew out of MEM. I know NWA did fly 747s out of MEM a long time ago but not the -400, or did they?
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 29):
As for the 747-400, I don't know if they ever flew out of MEM. I know NWA did fly 747s out of MEM a long time ago but not the -400, or did they?

Was the 747 ever used on MEM-MSP or MEM-DTW flights? I think NW used it for a bit. I hope the 787 helps MEM out with international flights on NW.
 
sampa737
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:04 am

THAT would be cool, the 787. I think the A330 is awesome for Memphis. I think the 747 was used for MSP and DTW. I never saw one except for a picture in the Commercial Appeal.
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
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RE: AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 29):
I believe the only Boeing they fly, out of MEM, is the 757

Fair enough.

Quoting JetBlueLuv (Reply 30):
Was the 747 ever used on MEM-MSP or MEM-DTW flights? I think NW used it for a bit.

Back in the 80s, IIRC. The route, MEM-MSP, was a DC10 even into the late 1990s and sometime after that. I believe I saw a few DC10s in 2001 and 2002 at the airport, not connected with the AMS flight, that were going to MSP.

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 26):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):Of course Northwest responded. Less than a week after American Eagle announced Miami-Memphis, Northwest upgraded the daily flight from an A319 to an A320, and added a second daily flight. The second flight was cut last year when Northwest made huge cuts in domestic capacity.
NW almost always upgrades the MIA flight when the Spring Break period comes around. I used to do the
cargo sales for them in MIA and that additional aircraft was a big help in the period btwn Valentines Day
and Mothers Day

Just to help put things into place, I'm gathering the "response" to AA's MIA-MEM was an A320 upgrade on one flight and then a 2nd flight on top of that upgraded flight? But the "response" was planed anyways, to help with seasonal increases to MIA, and thus the "response" was only PR spin? Yes?

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