Continental123
Topic Author
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Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:01 am

Indonesian budget carrier Adam Air has grounded six Boeing 737-300 planes for safety inspections after the fuselage of one of its aircraft cracked during a hard landing, an airline official said on Thursday.

The Boeing 737-300s, almost a third of the airline's fleet, would not fly until they had passed the safety inspection from the government, Adam Air safety director Hartono said.

The Indonesian government has stepped up safety investigations since an Adam Air plane disappeared in January.

"The planes will be checked before they can fly again, so all the 300-series will not fly today," Hartono said in Surabaya where he was inspecting the cracked aircraft. Like most Indonesians, Hartono only use one name.

"The check is a preventive measure. If there's nothing wrong with the planes they can be flown again."

All 148 passengers on the aircraft that made a hard landing on Wednesday were safe, but the accident prompted a temporary closure of Juanda Airport in Surabaya, Indonesia's second largest city and the capital of East Java province.

The body of the plane was cracked through the middle of the passenger section, leaving the tail drooping towards the ground.

On January 1 an Adam Air Boeing 737-400 with 102 people disappeared from radar screens during a domestic flight from Surabaya to Manado in the north of Sulawesi island.

No bodies have been found from the plane, although some debris has been recovered from the sea off South Sulawesi.

That accident sparked widespread discussion of Indonesian aviation safety standards and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono set up a commission to investigate transport safety.

Adam Air said Wednesday's incident was caused by strong wind amid heavy rain at the airport, and the plane, made in 1994, had undergone thorough checks before flying.

The incident had prompted some passengers to cancel flights with the carrier, Elshinta radio reported.

Adam Air, one of about a dozen budget airlines in the world's fourth most populous nation, operates 19 Boeing 737 jets. It serves dozens of domestic routes in Indonesia and also flies to Singapore.

Air travel in Indonesia, home to 220 million people, has grown substantially since the liberalization of the airline industry after the Asian financial crisis in the late 1990s.

(Reuters)
 
flyabunch
Posts: 443
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:11 am

Sounds like they are trying to divert attention away from the airline itself and blame the planes. I think WN could tell them a few things about high use 733's. They do not seem to have any problems with this model. As several of our Indonesian members have said in the past the government needs to clamp down on Adams but probably will not.

Mike
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:46 am

Again, this is some kind of politcal b's that most of us in the west just cannot understand. We've been through all sorts of scenarios, including Adam Air suing Boeing

While we do this political 'crap' there has been valuable evidence lost due to Adam Air's attitude. I am assuming (which is never safe to do) that the Adam Air crash was not due to anything other than the incompentence of the airline itself, be it maintenance, etc., but -- just suppose, there were an undiscovered flaw in the Boeing 737.

Don't all airlines (or better yet, all human beings) have to have some regard for the safety of others? If by some remote chance, the Adam Air 737 had a potential flaw, then that flaw needs to be brought to light and corrected for other airlines/planes.

Of course, we all are certain that that is not the case - so we watch the political manoverings of Adam Air, and we have no choice but to empathize with intelligent Indonesians (Mandala) , to sympathize with the bulk of the population who have no clue/education/awareness, and to make personal committments to not support Adam Air, or other airlines of this caliber (rather lack of caliber) when we ourselves travel
 
Continental123
Topic Author
Posts: 142
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 1):
Sounds like they are trying to divert attention away from the airline itself and blame the planes

Exactly, they can't handle any more publicity after the dissapearence.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 1):
Sounds like they are trying to divert attention away from the airline itself and blame the planes.

Yeah, I mean it's not like a really really hard landing could have possibly had anything to do with it...  Yeah sure
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13762
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4):
Yeah, I mean it's not like a really really hard landing could have possibly had anything to do with it...  

Since nobody died, I can make a joke about this whole thing. Here are some great movie instances of people shifting the blame to inanimate objects:

"The hatch just blew." -The Right Stuff
"Hit one good bump out here... BLAM! Your whole rear window explodes!" -Fletch
"Screws fall out all the time. The World's an imperfect place." -The Breakfast Club
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Interesting spin they are putting on the grounding of a third of their fleet. First of all, the grounding was ordered by the government, not be the airline itself. Secondly, the airline and its political backers have been crying foul all over the media about this grounding which is their words is an 'emotional reaction' of the regulators. Finally, these same people have been pushing for a country wide ban of the B733 in an apparent move to divert the attention away from the airline and towards the airplane's manufacturer but also to preclude competitors from taking advantage of the current situation at Adam. Garuda Indonesia, Air Asia Indonesia, Merpati, Lion Air and other all operate the B733.

Adding further pressure to the government, Adam Air has refused to cancel any flights or reacommodate any passengers following the grounding of their remaining B733s. The airline's CEO has publicly stated that it would just delay all passengers and reschedule and operate all flights with the remaining part of the fleet, which also consists of the B732, B734 and B735.

Adam Air was founded by the family of Indonesia's House Speaker, who is in turn backed by the country's largest and most influential political party. The country has been a hotbed of endemic corruption, collusion and nepotism, so the current wrangling over the outcome of the lastest Adam Air calamity should not surprise anyone.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:25 pm

Might I say that while I think its pure political BS, Its also a damn good idea.

We know that the airline isn't really on the ball about certain issues. A check to make sure atleast the 733's are not in need of structural repairs... is a good thing.
 
Electech6299
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
A check to make sure atleast the 733's are not in need of structural repairs... is a good thing.

Seriously! I am quite surprised at the responses on this thread. If a cable tie falls off a 737 or 320 on landing in the US, there is an advisory the next day to inspect all frames of that type to ensure that the offending cable tie is properly fastened and not overly worn. Why shouldn't the Indo government call for an inspection of Adam's 733s when one cracks in half on landing? We have no details of the investigation thus far, perhaps some Mx flaw has been discovered and they want to check for consistency across the fleet? Or perhaps they are finally at the point of shutting Adam Air down and are now gathering data to support that decision?

[Edited 2007-02-23 07:59:29]
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
198467
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:58 pm

A check is good.. Whether they do a check, is another question..  crossfingers 
When you play, people stare. When you work, people don't care.
 
jetfuel
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:31 pm

Grounded for inspection by officials.................

Read as - Stop flying them for 24 hours until another $10,000 in US $ bills passes through the system and then announce that the rest of the fleet is safe, and that the one that bent itself was the fault of Boeing.

Reality - Let's hope that Adam Air cannot get insurance or financial backing and goes broke
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
We know that the airline isn't really on the ball about certain issues. A check to make sure atleast the 733's are not in need of structural repairs... is a good thing.

For starters, there have been sufficient previous incidents to warrant not just the grounding of the airline's B733 fleet but of the entire Adam Air fleet, which consists of several B737 models. The real problem, though, is that it is virtually certain that no thorough check will be carried out, but that money has been changing hands big time in the past day or so, and that the airline will be up and running again until the next incident inevitably happens.

I guess it is difficult for outsiders to grasp how rotten the situation in the country really is. Money talks just about anywhere and any other considerations merly play a minor role. Add to that this airline's powerful political backing which spreads throughout all branches of the government, and it is not difficult to understand that they can act with virutal impunity while displaying behavior that is, quite frankly, criminally negligent.

As it goes, it is already unheard of that the regulators at the transport ministry have gone as far as the current grounding of the B733 fleet, although this has likely little to do with the safety concerns and more with the perceived immediate financial gain for the government officials involved. One shouldn't be surprised to see the tranport ministry's top officials, who are all working for a monthly salary of below $1,000, zipping around Jakarta in the newest luxury cars. Such is that state of affairs within the Indonesian government.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1934
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
Finally, these same people have been pushing for a country wide ban of the B733 in an apparent move to divert the attention away from the airline and towards the airplane's manufacturer but also to preclude competitors from taking advantage of the current situation at Adam. Garuda Indonesia, Air Asia Indonesia, Merpati, Lion Air and other all operate the B733.

This is just crazy. But of course its only when the aircraft get an Indonesian reg slapped on them that the become hell bent on self distruction rolleyes . Adam only had the aircraft for a few weeks, I assume (perhaps a little nievely) that it would have been overhauled before Adam took delivery? In any case 737s dont just break in half on ahard landings...from what Ive seen. Although Im not a pilot Im gonna GUESS the 737 hit the runway in a very nose up attitude, the tail taking most of the impact and one of the main gear taking the rest. I just dont see how enough forces could be generated through the airframe...if it landed on its gear, surely the gear would be somewhere near the PSU?

Remember the Aloha 732....lost about 25% of the crown of the aircraft...and did not break up. Different situation, I know...but does show that the 737 is a sturdy little thing.

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 8):
If a cable tie falls off a 737 or 320 on landing in the US, there is an advisory the next day to inspect all frames of that type to ensure that the offending cable tie is properly fastened and not overly worn.

OK, but do they GROUND an entire fleet? Or limit it to say the A319 but not the similar 318/320/321. I dont see the sense in grounding the 733 fleet without doing the same for 737-200/400/500. This is more a political issue than a grounding motivated by the fears for the safety of Indonesian passengers.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:34 pm

It is indeed rather laughable that they have grounded the B733s and not the B732s or particularly the same-generation B734/B735s.

They actually operate a B732 which I am quite interested in as it is the earliest reg a/c I know I flew on. It is currently registered PK-KKN and was operated by Dan Air as G-ILFC at the time I flew on it.

Are there any routes/flights on which Adam Air specifically operate the B732, or is it pretty random between their 4 x B737 series?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 13):
Are there any routes/flights on which Adam Air specifically operate the B732, or is it pretty random between their 4 x B737 series?

The aircraft scheduling seems to be all pretty random with the exception of Singapore, which doesn't see the B732 and is normally served with the B735 or B733.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 12):
OK, but do they GROUND an entire fleet? Or limit it to say the A319 but not the similar 318/320/321. I dont see the sense in grounding the 733 fleet without doing the same for 737-200/400/500. This is more a political issue than a grounding motivated by the fears for the safety of Indonesian passengers.

In the US, and I'm assuming much of the rest of the world, an aircraft type isn't grounded unless there's pretty strong suspicion of a specific fault. A plane disappearing over the ocean and one breaking in half due to a very hard landing would not lead most normally intelligent people to believe that because they were the same type they must have a common flaw unless the common flaw was gremlins. Does Boeing assume liability for gremlins? Will it hold up in court?
 scratchchin 
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
flyingroo
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

Here's a photo of the aircraft from a local Oz paper.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/travel...line/2007/02/23/1171733999080.html
 
ltbewr
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:06 pm

At least this is a start for Adam Air. Now if they grounded all the rest of their aircraft and went out of business, that would be a desirable story. That they have grounded these aircraft is a sign that the government and Adam's management is somewhat concerned...for now.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 8):
Seriously! I am quite surprised at the responses on this thread. If a cable tie falls off a 737 or 320 on landing in the US, there is an advisory the next day to inspect all frames of that type to ensure that the offending cable tie is properly fastened and not overly worn. Why shouldn't the Indo government call for an inspection of Adam's 733s when one cracks in half on landing? We have no details of the investigation thus far, perhaps some Mx flaw has been discovered and they want to check for consistency across the fleet? Or perhaps they are finally at the point of shutting Adam Air down and are now gathering data to support that decision?

You can be damn sure that if a 733 had a hard landing during terrible weather in the U.S. like the Adam Air one did and cracked in half, there would be no grounding of the entire 733 fleet to check for problems. There would be a grounding of the flight crew, a check of current weather conditions at the time, and a check of all systems on and off the plane that relate to weather. To say that it makes sense to ground a fleet of one particular type-series aircraft (with thousands flying over decades) because an extremely hard landing occurred and damaged an aircraft, without any other evidence to the contrary, is completely idiotic.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:03 am

HB-IWC,

I'm still unclear on one thing. Was the grounding only for the Adam Air B733,
or did they manage to get all of the B733 in Indonesia grounded?
If thats the case then domestic travel must be in chaos this week.

Also, could you clear up, is the Suherman who has been quoted recently the same fellow
who used to have a top management position with GA??

Thanks for any updates
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
starrion
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:42 am

Grounding the 733 fleet makes sense because you see this kind of thing on 737's all the time. Doesn't every airport have a couple of 737's with the tail dragging on the ground?

The crew couldn't possibly be responsible for turning one of the most reliable aircraft in airline service into a static modern artwork.

What a load of BS
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Starrion (Reply 20):
Grounding the 733 fleet makes sense because you see this kind of thing on 737's all the time. Doesn't every airport have a couple of 737's with the tail dragging on the ground?

The crew couldn't possibly be responsible for turning one of the most reliable aircraft in airline service into a static modern artwork.

LMAO! {BIGGRIN}

Quoting Starrion (Reply 20):
What a load of BS

My thoughts EXACTLY.....the 737 series aircraft is a very fine, sturdy, and capable machiene. While not all aspects of the aircraft are byond reporach, structural integrity is not one of them IMHO.

Out of interest has an incident like this ever happened before to a 737(or 727/757/320?). To snap an airliner in half must take serious force.

At least no one was seriously injured, or killed....this time.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 19):
Was the grounding only for the Adam Air B733,
or did they manage to get all of the B733 in Indonesia grounded?

Only the Adam Air B733s have been grounded so far, and although the airline's management has been seriously pushing for an extension of the bad to all Indonesian operators - probably in hopes of diverting the attention from Adam - the government seems not inclined to impose such a ban.

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 19):
Also, could you clear up, is the Suherman who has been quoted recently the same fellow
who used to have a top management position with GA??

No. Adam Suherman is still in his 20s, and is a recent US business school drop out.
 
macilree
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:01 am

Another photo showing the extent of the damage. Ouch!

John Macilree's Weblog

[Edited 2007-02-23 21:02:35]
John Macilree
 
727forever
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 2):
Don't all airlines (or better yet, all human beings) have to have some regard for the safety of others? If by some remote chance, the Adam Air 737 had a potential flaw, then that flaw needs to be brought to light and corrected for other airlines/planes.

Yes, there is a very dangerous flaw with the 737 that all airlines should be aware of. It has a problem in that it simply will not fly below stall speed. A Service Bulletin will be forthcoming in the days ahead.  biggrin 


727forever
727forever
 
ikramerica
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 8):
Seriously! I am quite surprised at the responses on this thread.

I think Adam Air should be grounded. To single out the 733 is the part we are laughing about. Ground the whole fleet until it's determined that Adam Air will not crash anymore. Sounds good to me.

As for the response, check other posts re: the push to ground ALL 733s in the country. Now do you see where the true intent of this grounding lies?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
metroliner
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Macilree (Reply 23):
Another photo showing the extent of the damage. Ouch!

bloody hell! how'd the gear survive that? i am very impressed...

i agree that adam air should be grounded in its entirety until all of their aircraft have been throroughly checked out. and, possibly, pending the results of the investigation into the 734 crash on new year's day. they're definitely starting to look like one of the more suspect outfits in the skies.

toni
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
smylinpilot
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:30 am

I remember reading madala's thread the day he wrote it. I got the impression that if Adam Air continued down the road they were traveling an inccendent was inevitable. I myself assisted in supplying components to Adam Air, half the time they had part numbers incorrect and though I have a great deal of knowledge of aircraft, I am not A&P but yet I seemed to know more about the parts than the airline did. . .Troubling indeed.


smylinpilot
 
scarebus03
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:22 am

I am relieved that everyone was o.k. and there is a positive point to this incident. The investigation (provided there is one) will give a good insight into the structural fatigue rate of ageing aircraft. This is of course pending that the ageing aircraft/ cpcp programme was properly adhered to by Adamair and the previous operators. I would love to know the rate of descent when the aircraft impacted the runway and to see the Boeing guys as part of the investigation.

Aside from the interesting technical points of the incident it is suffice to say that Adamair are a disgrace to aviation.

Brgds
SB03
No faults found......................
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:03 am

This is just laughable, I'm sorry - but I fly all the time on 'old' DC-9's and never have a remote concern

I really do hope there is a 'warning' about flying the 737 below stall speed -- common sense tells me that if the aircraft were not solidly built, there would have been injuries. I really just can't imagine landing that hard --so, let's blame Boeing, let's halt all other Indonesian carriers flying the same aircraft,

Come on Indonesia -- this is portraying an idiotic picture of your airline industry to the rest of the world
 
Electech6299
Posts: 606
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 18):
To say that it makes sense to ground a fleet of one particular type-series aircraft (with thousands flying over decades) because an extremely hard landing occurred and damaged an aircraft, without any other evidence to the contrary, is completely idiotic.

Let's take your argument in perspective. Has anyone asked that all 733's worldwide be grounded? No. So I don't see the relevance. The government demanded Adam stop flying it's 733s, which is probably what it could get away with. I'm glad they got that far. I'm sure some wanted all Adam 737s grounded, but that couldn't get past the politicians. So take what you can get. It's a step in the right direction for the government, despite Adam's ridiculous posturing.

Perhaps our different perspectives are a matter of focus...obviously Adam's requests (and political supporters) are way off base. But can you explain why the NTSC shouldn't have grounded Adam's 733s? This is a step in the right direction, and I hope it continues...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
Now do you see where the true intent of this grounding lies?

Uh, nope. This grounding is obviously not Adam's idea. Personally, I don't care what Adam says. Just because Adam says all airlines should be grounded, does that discolor the Government inspectors? Sounds like Adam's PR is working pretty well, making the NTSC look like fools when they are the only ones making sense at the moment. Please try to keep perspective on who is saying what...allowing Adam's comments to refer to all of Indonesia is like allowing Cindy Sheehan's comments to refer to US Foreign Policy. One is a press hog that makes little sense, and the other is...an angry woman  Wink
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:28 pm

The grounding instructions didn't come from the NTSC, but the DGAC.

Adam's PR doing well, well, there is a difference between what they claim and what people believe! And there's a big gap... the narrowest gap only comes in the demand for extremely low priced tickets...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 31):
Adam's PR doing well, well, there is a difference between what they claim and what people believe! And there's a big gap... the narrowest gap only comes in the demand for extremely low priced tickets...

Nothing that can't be solved by lowering the price of the tickets by another Rp. 50,000...
 
bennett123
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:19 pm

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19700915-0&lang=en

This is how to break a DC8.

Seriously the B737-300 has been flying for how many hours?.

I think that a design or manufacturing error is most unlikely.

I suggest that they look in Indonesia, not the US.
 
kaktusdigital
Posts: 45
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 pm

When Indonesia's aviation industry pays pitiful stale rotten peanuts, you are bound to get a "ah thats good enough" attitude. Not the fault of the industry I say, the Government has a hard enough time trying to keep other issues stable, improvement of the state of things will come eventually, but slowly.

Its sad that safety is compromised, but which do you pick? A 99% safe aviation industry which only the richest of the rich can afford, or a semi safe which allows most 'average' locals to be able to afford it.
Henry Lam
 
mika
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:00 pm

What a utter load of BS. How on earth could that incident be blamed on the airframe?


I've personally never witnessed anything like this..it's pretty darn apparent that Adam Air is a complete mockery of an airline. The airline needs to be grounded ASAP, not the planes themselves.


Boycott this so called airline!
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:38 pm

Has Boeing Said Anything on this.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nitrohelper
Posts: 406
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting Kaktusdigital (Reply 34):
you are bound to get a "ah thats good enough"

We used to call Indoland "85% OK,"
Not really clean ? , , ok, Floor not flat ?,,,ok, water won't stay. Building not plumb? ,,ok. the doors work . People are an hour late? , , ok traffic. Flooding ? , , ok it's raining.
Airplane needs work ? ,envelope , , Its OK

A big thumbs up to all the folks here on A.net living in Indonesia that are trying to do a good job. wave 
On the wall in my offices in Jakarta & Surabaya, we had a large batik fabric sign that said
"PATIENCE".
After dealing with the government on any project , very quickly a "Westerner" wants to kill something!  mad  At least the girls are cute & friendly! , , And thats OK
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:37 am

Quote:
Nothing that can't be solved by lowering the price of the tickets by another Rp. 50,000...

Well, even dropping it by Rp. 50,000 this time round doesn't solve the load factor... (cancellations and putting the pax onto 1 plane does, though inconvenient for everyone)...

LOL

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
nitrohelper
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:32 am

RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 31):
The grounding instructions didn't come from the NTSC, but the DGAC.

Will Boeing have any "Technical Advisers" to provide help in reviewing the planes? Do you know if the NTSB sends any staff from the US to observe the Indo procedures, inspections that is, , not envelopes!
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:35 am

After some discussions... beginning to look like >MLW and a hard landing... seems the pilot didn't know he was over...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 40):
After some discussions... beginning to look like >MLW and a hard landing... seems the pilot didn't know he was over...

MLW on our -300s is 114,000 lbs., and I'd be curious to know what this one touched down with. Also, the sink rate and/or Gs if you hear about them...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:59 am

OPNL,
Probably slap about 800kg to 1.2 tons above whichever MLW it has... structurals exceeded, you wouldn't need a teeth bashing landing to get a bend... but a hard one still...

There's a 114,000lbs and a 115,800lbs MLW standard versions, but what the aircraft is individually certified to, I gotto buy a few guys some more beers I think... DANG !

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
flyorski
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 15):
In the US, and I'm assuming much of the rest of the world, an aircraft type isn't grounded unless there's pretty strong suspicion of a specific fault. A plane disappearing over the ocean and one breaking in half due to a very hard landing would not lead most normally intelligent people to believe that because they were the same type they must have a common flaw unless the common flaw was gremlins. Does Boeing assume liability for gremlins? Will it hold up in court?

They are just grounding those maintained and flown by adam air.

Quoting Kaktusdigital (Reply 34):
Its sad that safety is compromised, but which do you pick? A 99% safe aviation industry which only the richest of the rich can afford, or a semi safe which allows most 'average' locals to be able to afford it.

If there was no corruption in Indonesia...........It could be as safe as the 99% safe rest of the world.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
nwafflyer
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:07 am

Guess I'm just missing something then -- why the hard landing? Was the weather bad? Were there other issues? Just cannot imagine a landing hard enough to 'break a plane'
 
Electech6299
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 31):
The grounding instructions didn't come from the NTSC, but the DGAC.

Thanks for the correction.

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 44):
Was the weather bad?

Yes- refer to the article in OP

Quoting Continental123 (Thread starter):
Adam Air said Wednesday's incident was caused by strong wind amid heavy rain at the airport,

there used to be some pics on the thread but must have been removed... Heavy rain squalls, some people theorized wind shear could have been a factor. Nothing definite tho, no technical info on Wx.
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
mandala499
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:56 pm

18 more pilots in Adam grounded, 150 staff from various departments have been told to pack their bags...
Looks like it IS having an effect on the company!

Gonna continue snooping around...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Electech6299
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 46):
18 more pilots in Adam grounded, 150 staff from various departments have been told to pack their bags...
Looks like it IS having an effect on the company!

Great news! Maybe this will fix their ground ops shortage  duck 

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 46):
Gonna continue snooping around...

 listen   mischievous  Just stay out of trouble... We can get the news a few days/weeks later without anyone getting in over their head!  no 
I trust you know your limits.
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
Electech6299
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 44):
why the hard landing? Was the weather bad?



Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 45):
there used to be some pics on the thread but must have been removed...

Correction...pics were on another thread: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Adam Air Grounds Six Boeing 737s

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:34 pm

Whats the Inspection Findings as on date.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)