RICARIZA
Topic Author
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OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:57 pm

Luanda, Angola, 23 Feb – Brazilian airline OceanAir is due to begin flights to Luanda on March 15, as it tries to create new international routes.

According to Angolan news agency Angop, which cites Brazilian tourism newspaper, Brasilturis, OceanAir will use a Boeing 767 to fly to Luanda, but gave no details about how often the flight would run.

The paper added that the company was planning further routes to Africa for the first half of this year.

As well as Africa, the airline plans to open up routes to some South American countries and to the United States.

In order to carry out this new project, OceanAir had to restructure its board and hire former professionals from the sector, the newspaper said citing company sources.

Source: (macauhub)
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
LipeGIG
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:49 am

Thanks for the info Ricariza.

Just to add some valuable information, their first 767-300ER, the one to be used on LAD and future LOS flights, will arrive GIG on March 3rd (ex- N-645UA and VT-SDL)

Also they will add some domestic flights with F100:

BSB-GIG-VCP-CNF-GRU-GIG-CNF
POA-GIG-SSA-FOR
FOR-JDO-REC-BSB-CNF-GIG-GRU
REC-MCZ-GRU-CWB-IGU-GIG-CNF-BSB
FOR-CNF-VCP-GIG
VCP-REC

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Just to add some valuable information, their first 767-300ER, the one to be used on LAD and future LOS flights, will arrive GIG on March 3rd (ex- N-645UA and VT-SDL)

Thanks for the news. Any date yet for starting operations in LOS since they will use the same aircraft for both LAD and LOS?

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
Thanks for the news. Any date yet for starting operations in LOS since they will use the same aircraft for both LAD and LOS?

Not yet Hardi, probably closer to the end of march. LAD has a lot of advantages, including language and a developed market.

Ocean Air will have strong competitor by the end of the year as TAAG will upgrade their GIG-LAD service to their brand new 772 fleet.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
777jaah
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:27 am

Great, now I could fly BOG-LOS if I ever need to........ wink 

I'm glad OceanAir is expanding, hopefully we can see a depper integration between AV and OceanAir.

Thanks for the info Ricardo.

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
hardiwv
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Ocean Air will have strong competitor by the end of the year as TAAG will upgrade their GIG-LAD service to their brand new 772 fleet.

Another good reason for launching LOS service instead of LAD, I think LAD will be a very difficult market for OceanAir.

Rgs,
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
Another good reason for launching LOS service instead of LAD, I think LAD will be a very difficult market for OceanAir.

I can't imagine anyone considers DT a serious competitor.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
CXA330300
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:47 am

Any news on their new JNB service?
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
Avianca
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 4):
Great, now I could fly BOG-LOS if I ever need to........

will AV code-share on the flights...?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
stirling
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:32 am

What ETOPS rating do their 767s operate under?
120, 138, 180?

If it is 120, they will have to arc northward, 138 should allow them a more direct route....but the 767 can handle it, with miles to spare.
On a personal note I think it is amazing how versatile the 767 series has become, or is it the airlines becoming more creative?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
I can't imagine anyone considers DT a serious competitor.

Well if anything, they have a nice modern fleet....I have no ideer what the service is like.
Delete this User
 
777jaah
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 8):
will AV code-share on the flights...?

I would be surprised if they don't...........wouldn't make any sense at all......


JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
LipeGIG
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
I can't imagine anyone considers DT a serious competitor.



Quoting Stirling (Reply 9):
Well if anything, they have a nice modern fleet....I have no ideer what the service is like.

And they will deploy the 772 to GIG by the end of the year, with PTVs something the Ocean Air 763 don't have.
They have a good service on C and F, and an established base of customers.

Ocean Air will need to fight on price and service to get their customers.

But i believe there is space for both as TAAG is nowadays running 5x weekly mostly weeks on GIG-LAD with very high loads. GIG-LAD is TAAG's best route in terms of profit.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
And they will deploy the 772 to GIG by the end of the year, with PTVs something the Ocean Air 763 don't have.

PTVs, despite what airliners.netters think, aren't a competitive advantage.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
They have a good service on C and F, and an established base of customers.

I just don't see DT as being competitive with anyone; then again I think airlines are forced to codeshare with DT regardless. The only hurdle Ocean Air (or any airline flying to Angola) is getting the frequency of service you want; the market is very tightly controlled by the Angolans.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
RICARIZA
Topic Author
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 4):
I'm glad OceanAir is expanding, hopefully we can see a depper integration between AV and OceanAir.

Thanks for the info Ricardo.

Not a problem. I'm glad to see OceanAir growing.

How's the airline doing in Brazil, Felipe? Is it really the number one regional airline? What is the Brazilians point of view about OceanAir?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
LipeGIG
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 13):
How's the airline doing in Brazil, Felipe? Is it really the number one regional airline? What is the Brazilians point of view about OceanAir?

They are growing. They use to be a strong regional airline but nowadays they become a very strong player in the domestic market, with more legroom than any other airline, a very good in flight service and a growing network. Very soon they will introduce a Frequent Flyer Program.

Seems that they are in right track.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
They have a good service on C and F, and an established base of customers.

wow they have also a F class serivce... didnt know that.... anyway can imagine that there is good potentional even for a second airline in the market, also AV will feeder the flight, of course not only from colombia, because from there there shouldnt be a lot of market but do not forget all the other northern latin-america countrys and the US.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
A388
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
I just don't see DT as being competitive with anyone

What is this based on? Why would DT not be competitive with anyone?

A388
 
RCS763AV
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
a Frequent Flyer Program.

Yes, they will indeed join AviancaPlus in no more than6 months.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
And they will deploy the 772 to GIG by the end of the year, with PTVs something the Ocean Air 763 don't have.
They have a good service on C and F, and an established base of customers.

I´m sorry but it´s not clear from where the OceanAir service will be. Will it fly from GIG or GRU???
 
777jaah
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
soon they will introduce a Frequent Flyer Program.

Which has always wondered me why in hell they haven't "merge" with AV FF program, which works perfectly fine......I guess we'll see how they do it by the end of this year.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
They are growing

Felipe, Are they only flying F100s around?? Or they added some F50s, because I can't remember that.....


JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
LipeGIG
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
I´m sorry but it´s not clear from where the OceanAir service will be. Will it fly from GIG or GRU???

It's not decided yet. They need the 763 at GRU to run BOG-LAX, but they realize Africa-Brazil main focus is Oil, so they also know they need GIG. Rumors that the same 763 will run LAX-BOG-GRU and after GRU-GIG-LAD/LOS. As i mentioned, not decided yet.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 18):
Felipe, Are they only flying F100s around?? Or they added some F50s, because I can't remember that.....

At this time 777jaah, they are flying:

* Fokker 100 (they called as Mk28 because the F100 has a bad reputation in Brazil)
* Fokker 50
* Emb120 Brasilia

To be added

* Boeing 767-300ER

There are rumors about Boeing 757, but at least for now, nothing confirmed.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
Yes, they will indeed join AviancaPlus in no more than6 months.

Smart decision as it's easy to set up!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
PTVs, despite what airliners.netters think, aren't a competitive advantage.

Allow me to disagree with you. A PTV is something that add cost to airlines (for sure a 772 without PTV is cheaper than one with PTV's and AVOD system), but it could be used on airline marketing as a plus to passengers. So it become a competitive advantage. As a matter of fact, competitive advantage could be: Focus, Leadership in costs or become different. Using a PTV is a strategy to become different, while your competitor does not offer something, you just put on your marketing: "We have PTV and your trip will be better with us".

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Summa767
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
It's not decided yet. They need the 763 at GRU to run BOG-LAX, but they realize Africa-Brazil main focus is Oil, so they also know they need GIG. Rumors that the same 763 will run LAX-BOG-GRU and after GRU-GIG-LAD/LOS. As i mentioned, not decided yet.

Let me see if I ask understand. The BOG-GRU 763 would be OceanAir metal doing an AV flight? As It is, OceanAir cannot have flights of its own to BOG. Not until the bilateral in reviewed anyhow..

Or would it be the same 763 tat does LAX-GRU non-stop, or with a stop in Bogota where no passengers get on or off?
 
ENU
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:05 am

When will the flights to LOS commence? Any announcements yet?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
They need the 763 at GRU to run BOG-LAX, but they realize Africa-Brazil main focus is Oil, so they also know they need GIG. Rumors that the same 763 will run LAX-BOG-GRU and after GRU-GIG-LAD/LOS. As i mentioned, not decided yet.



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 20):
Let me see if I ask understand. The BOG-GRU 763 would be OceanAir metal doing an AV flight? As It is, OceanAir cannot have flights of its own to BOG. Not until the bilateral in reviewed anyhow..

Exactly.

If it stops in BOG, no pax could get in or out. Of course, i think a revision of the bilateral is something AV is looking for for future expansion in Brazil.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 20):
Let me see if I ask understand. The BOG-GRU 763 would be OceanAir metal doing an AV flight? As It is, OceanAir cannot have flights of its own to BOG. Not until the bilateral in reviewed anyhow..

Ricariza is correct, they are trying to accommodate the BOG stop on the bilateral. But nothing confirmed yet.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 20):
Or would it be the same 763 tat does LAX-GRU non-stop, or with a stop in Bogota where no passengers get on or off?

I don't think it will be a non-stop flight, it's a very long flight for a 763. It should need some premium seats for the crew and it would reduce the profits/yields.

Quoting ENU (Reply 21):
When will the flights to LOS commence? Any announcements yet?

ENU not yet, but i believe 2 to 4 weeks after LAD.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:35 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
What is this based on? Why would DT not be competitive with anyone?

They have a limited network and frequency, nevermind the brand image problem of being an Angolan airline. They probably can compete for the VFR traffic but I would imagine BA or AF gets the business passenger for multiple reasons over DT, even in markets they share.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
"We have PTV and your trip will be better with us".

Outside of charging for services on said PTV, I have little evidence that there is any fare premium for PTVs, long haul or short haul.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
A388
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
They have a limited network and frequency, nevermind the brand image problem of being an Angolan airline. They probably can compete for the VFR traffic but I would imagine BA or AF gets the business passenger for multiple reasons over DT, even in markets they share.

Okay I see what you mean but DT is mainly Portuguese so their biggest markets in Europe come from Portugal. What I've seen so far DT is doing well on the Portuguese flights and Brazilian flights where they are strong. The introduction of brandnew 737NG's and 772ER's only strengthens their position in the Portuguese markets.

You are right that in terms of worldwide route network that airlines such as BA or AF are better but that's like comparing apples to oranges. DT now operates brandnew aircraft and they will promote them aggresively as these aircraft represent a big investment for them as it would be for any other similarly sized airline.

A388
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 25):
You are right that in terms of worldwide route network that airlines such as BA or AF are better but that's like comparing apples to oranges

BA and AF can draw passengers from across the EU, North America, and just about anywhere on earth and connect them to their LAD flights, whereas DT can really only take passengers from its European destinations to LAD and maybe a handful of domestic and maybe regional destinations *if* they actually connect. It's really just a question of network size; I think that's one of the reasons the Angolans tightly control access to their country.

Quoting A388 (Reply 25):
DT now operates brandnew aircraft and they will promote them aggresively

It's still an Angolan airline, and it's still the same carrier that had to ground their fleet because of spotty maintenance. Other than the VFR traffic and a.netters, in the short term I don't know who would choose DT over a European or even South American carrier.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
EurostarVA
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
ENU not yet, but i believe 2 to 4 weeks after LAD.

Felipe

I suppose then they've hired a Station Manager, ground handling and security agencies, etc.?

Muito obrigado.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
LipeGIG
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 27):
I suppose then they've hired a Station Manager, ground handling and security agencies, etc.?

And also probably a small sales team as well as set-up a local office.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
Outside of charging for services on said PTV, I have little evidence that there is any fare premium for PTVs, long haul or short haul.

Not a fare premium, but customers could consider that paying the same price to fly in an airline without PTV could be expensive. Mostly pax use to decide their flights by price, but also entertainment could be a plus.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
A388
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
It's still an Angolan airline, and it's still the same carrier that had to ground their fleet because of spotty maintenance. Other than the VFR traffic and a.netters, in the short term I don't know who would choose DT over a European or even South American carrier.

Again what is it based on? Just being an Angolan or African or any other third world airline? Nowadays people don't look at the legacy carriers that much anymore, it is the price that gets attention. I agree airlines such as BA or AF have a much wider network but to say that DT or any other airline that is not European, American or Asian is not chosen because they're just African or Asian is not justified. Does an airline like DT need to attract people from around the world to fill their seat? No. Do they need a worldwide network? No. Are they catering for the prime routes they currently fly? Yes. An airline like DT or any other similar airline does not need a worldwide network. They focus on their core intercontinental markets which in this case is France and Portugal and Brazil. On these routes an airline like DT that can offer a similar or even better product/service mix, is as equal a competitor to an airline like BA or AF.

A388
 
787kq
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
They have a good service on C and F, and an established base of customers.

Really? I have flown TAAG but its service was civil not good, sort of like with most service in Angola, such as at hotels, restaurants, banks... And when there is a delay, the airline is often not very helpful in providing information, etc.

The airline now has the right equipment...with service improvement they could be competitive.
 
MaverickM11
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 29):
Just being an Angolan

Yes.

Quoting A388 (Reply 29):
Nowadays people don't look at the legacy carriers that much anymore,

Not business traffic, and LAD is all about business traffic. The VFR traffic just fills up the Y cabin.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
hardiwv
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
They need the 763 at GRU to run BOG-LAX, but they realize Africa-Brazil main focus is Oil, so they also know they need GIG. Rumors that the same 763 will run LAX-BOG-GRU and after GRU-GIG-LAD/LOS. As i mentioned, not decided yet.

Perhaps they could simply operate LAX-BOG-GRU-GIG-LAD/LOS, therefore, bringing back AV B763 to GIG and also connection West US to Africa (LOS and LAD). I honestly think that considering that OceanAir already operates F-100 GRU-GIG either one of the legs would be out.

Rgs,
 
A388
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 30):
The airline now has the right equipment...with service improvement they could be competitive.

Correct. That's what I mean.

A388
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
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RE: OceanAir Begins Operating In Luanda In March

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:51 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 28):
And also probably a small sales team as well as set-up a local office.

Roger.
PS. What happened to Capital Airlines, the supposed subsidiary of Synergy Group in Nigeria? There was media hype about this a year or 2 ago but since then no news, just the same old EMB-120 in operation and no hangar development, addition of F100, etc.
If there is a will, there is a way