alphascan
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Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:20 am

Frontier has responed to The Eastern Iowa Airport's (CID) proposal for service. Basically, if CID will guarantee first year revenues of $500,000, Frontier JetExpress will start 2x daily 70 seat RJ or E-170 service as early as this spring.

Here is a news story from a Waterloo, IA TV station:

http://www.kwwl.com/Global/story.asp?S=6110900&nav=2Ifu


Here is The Eastern Iowa Airport's Call to Action for area businesses:

http://www.crairport.org/news/releases/FrontierFinal.pdf


Oddly enough, I find the Waterloo (which has its own airport -ALO) TV station's report more compelling than the actual Call To Action.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:26 am

Interesting.

Another option to go visit my daughter . . .

CID has the gate and counter space, and it's an underserved market to the West Coast.

Good move F9.
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dsmflyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:42 am

This would be very good. I flew them out of Omaha in January and was really impressed. I'm glad they're making an effort to move into an Iowa market.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:46 am

I wish they would come to PIA..Though a EMB170 in PIA might be too large.
 
kingcavalier
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:48 am

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
flymli
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:14 am

All I have to say is that you don't want to mess with United when they already offer good air service between CID and DEN. The market is only so big and MLI and DSM already have flights to DEN also. UA will want a revenue guarantee too!
 
kingcavalier
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting Flymli (Reply 5):
All I have to say is that you don't want to mess with United when they already offer good air service between CID and DEN.

Do you not know where Frontier's hub is? You say UA offers good air service. I say expensive. I just checked UA's web site for a RT fare from CID to DEN in June and it priced out at over $720. Now, has UA really been that good to the good folks of Eastern Iowa?

[Edited 2007-02-24 00:18:08]
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting Alphascan (Thread starter):
Basically, if CID will guarantee first year revenues of $500,000,

Airport operator revenue guarantees to an airline are illegal. Note the comment below from the linked kwwl.com article:

Mann says getting the business community to back the half million dollar revenue guarantee by March 6th will be a task... but it will pay off in the long run.

The revenue difference between what F9 makes on the route and the minimum revenue guarantee would have to be made up by the local business community. And those types of promises from local business is very tough to come by.

Tom at MSY
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captover
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:47 am

If I was Frontier I wouldn't worry about competition from United on the CID-DEN route. They'll just send their pax to Cheyenne anyway! And leave them there too! Big grin
 
F9Animal
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting Flymli (Reply 5):
All I have to say is that you don't want to mess with United when they already offer good air service between CID and DEN. The market is only so big and MLI and DSM already have flights to DEN also. UA will want a revenue guarantee too!

I guess F9 should have considered all of this when they started flying from DEN to any other UA airport serves from DEN. If there is a place that F9 could serve to continue success, then so be it. All F9 will bring to CID is lower fares, good service, and options for the community.
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IPFreely
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:36 am

I wish it was DSM instead (since it's my home airport), but it's great news for CID. If it happens, it will be interesting to see what it does to fares -- UA typically has high fares to cities like DSM and CID, but also responds with aggressive pricing to drive new entrants out of these markets when needed. Frontier is doing the right thing in asking for a guarantee.

It would be nice to have F9 in DSM, but I'd actually prefer WN, so I'll keep hoping for that.
 
stirling
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Another option to go visit my daughter . . .

Or an Ex.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 3):
I wish they would come to PIA..Though a EMB170 in PIA might be too large.

Peoria would be big enough.
UA/X already has the CR7 to ORD....plus CRJs and ER3/ERJs to Atlanta, DFW, and more to ORD.
The big O/D market is LAS, but that is probably because it is the only market with good airfares. Allegiant being on the route. If Frontier were to bring a more sensible fare structure...the numbers to places like DEN, PHX, SEA, LAX are sure to increase.
Back pre-Texas Air, Meatball Continental ran a dedicated 1-stop to Peoria...a tag to another flight, twice daily. I will go out on a limb and say if the market was there in the 1970s/1980s....it still exists today.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9):
I guess F9 should have considered all of this when they started flying from DEN to any other UA airport serves from DEN.

Well, that would leave Ogdensburg, NY, Tyler TX, Tonopah, NV, and Marathon FL....and maybe Benton Harbor MI, I hear the competition is getting tough there tho'.
 Wink
Interesting that PIA generates more O/D to Las Vegas. About 239 to 177 each day, or about 119 and 89 each way.
Down the list, the ranking is; LAS, DFW, ATL, MSP, LAX, PHX, DEN, LGA, SAN.
Frontier can access half of those destinations.

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 6):
I just checked UA's web site for a RT fare from CID to DEN in June and it priced out at over $720.

That is going to seriously go down. No wonder the community is so eager for Frontier to come in.
I'm sure, 2 to 3 flights a day will fill up nicely with DEN O/D and beyond traffic.
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EvilForce
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:45 pm

Flying into Cedar Rapids is very expensive. I think Frontier will do quite well there. Lots of folks moved from Iowa to Denver during the farm recession of the 80's and early 90's.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:50 pm

F9 at CID would be awesome. CID is serving over 1 million pax a year now, this will only help the numbers grow. I remember when ATA Express came in here and lowered airfares back in 02. We really need some lower fares here, we definitley have the market as seen by the pax numbers. 2 airlines on one route to DEN would be no differnt than FL and DL to ATL from MLI. On a side note, I see we are getting a 6th daily flight on AA to DFW and a 7th to ORD.
 
FlyPeoria
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 3):
I wish they would come to PIA..Though a EMB170 in PIA might be too large

Not if the entire Central Illinois market is considered. How they might be accommodated might be the issue though.
 
iowaman
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:18 pm

As I've said in the past couple years, this route could definitely work if it's priced correctly. Also, as said above, CID is ripe for an LCC carrier to come in, and something better than a CRJ-200 is most welcomed anyways.

I'm sure the airport is really trying to pull this off, as it would be a huge victory in drawing pax to the airport that are heading west (MLI steals a lot of eastbound due to FL).
 
sking11
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 6):
I just checked UA's web site for a RT fare from CID to DEN in June and it priced out at over $720.

I just checked UAL's site and the above quoted price has gone down to $436.80 and this price includes all taxes for June of this year. Price must of gone down big time.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
As I've said in the past couple years, this route could definitely work if it's priced correctly. Also, as said above, CID is ripe for an LCC carrier to come in, and something better than a CRJ-200 is most welcomed anyways.

I'm sure the airport is really trying to pull this off, as it would be a huge victory in drawing pax to the airport that are heading west (MLI steals a lot of eastbound due to FL).

totally agree. It would be interesting to see what CID's numbers would be if they did get this service.They are already turning out record passenger numbers as it is. It looks like CID is primed for expansion, and they will need it if they do land F9. They were in talks to expand the B concourse. I would hope they would put jet bridges in there because we only have maybe a couple saabs now to MSP and that's it, everything else is jet aircraft. I flew out a couple weeks ago around 6am and the lineup through security gets backed up into the middle of the main terminal.
 
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spinkid
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 11):
Interesting that PIA generates more O/D to Las Vegas. About 239 to 177 each day, or about 119 and 89 each way.
Down the list, the ranking is; LAS, DFW, ATL, MSP, LAX, PHX, DEN, LGA, SAN.
Frontier can access half of those destinations.

PIA generates that much O/D to LAS since Allegiant offers non-stop service on that route 6-7 times a week.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:49 pm

Any updated news regarding this? I thought F9 was to have made up their minds about it this week.

Quoting Flymli (Reply 5):
All I have to say is that you don't want to mess with United when they already offer good air service between CID and DEN. The market is only so big and MLI and DSM already have flights to DEN also. UA will want a revenue guarantee too!

Don't forget that DEN is a large F9 hub, and that many pax will be connecting on to other destinations out to the west and Mexico. It would really be no different than AirTran and Delta serving ATL from MLI.
 
STJ
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 17):
I would hope they would put jet bridges in there because we only have maybe a couple saabs now to MSP and that's it,

You can use a gate with a Saab and a CRJ so there would be no reason not to do put a gate in just because you have Saabs. Most all the gates (regional) on the A and B (even side) can take CRJ's and Saab's.
 
avconsultant
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Cidflyer (Reply 13):
CID is serving over 1 million pax a year now

According to their airport website in 2004 CID 477,218 pax. that's a hug increase in 2 years.
http://www.eiairport.org/about/statistics.shtml

I remember the same year DSM was celebrating there 1st 1 million-th enplanement with signage and prize for that pax. IIRC, the numbers came in less than 100 passengers short of 1 million. I think they determined the NW computer problem during the summer and the huge OH fiasco in CVG during Christmas affected the milestone.
 
whatusaid
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:34 am

When F9 came into FAT, UA immediately dropped fares to the F9 level and has kept them there. Word on the street was that UA moved to depress yield to where F9 wouldn't be able to recover costs without very full aircraft. You might also recall, UA also raised hell with the DOT on the fact that Fed Funds were being used to help support the service when they already provided service on the route and thus, UA may be trying to prove a point through their madness. No doubt in my mind, if F9 leaves, the cost of flying through DEN will skyrocket.

Maybe other midwestern markets can learn from F9's adventures in FAT. F9 has struggled some in Fresno. Starting the service in the fall didn't help matters. But, they did come into their own last summer and had keep the loads at pretty close to their national average until the December snowstorms hit and all of DEN took a tumble. During this period, flights were running hours late or were subject to cancellation, and loads dropped into the 60's. Since arriving, F9 tinkered with the schedules several times, and has finally settled into one mainlain 319 a day to DEN (for now). I was hoping that UA would blink and realize that their CRJ 200 vs a F9 319 requires a second look at the market, but thus far, nothing from UA.

For Cedar Rapids and other mid-sized markets, F9's entry brings with it some responsibility for UA to stop the outragous fare structure that is so common when they're the only game in town to DEN.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 21):
According to their airport website in 2004 CID 477,218 pax. that's a hug increase in 2 years.
http://www.eiairport.org/about/stati...shtml

yes it is, for the past two years the pax served has been over one million, and this year to date has seen increases over the previous year
http://www.eiairport.org/news/releases/1_23_06.shtml
 
avconsultant
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 23):
this year to date has seen increases over the previous year

Thanks for the update. 2004 is an odd abnormally to lose that many pax and regain in 2 years. That's great news for CID, plus it makes sense why F9 would look at that market, I remember the 2004 numbers and went off the 477k.

Do you guys still have the PBR brewery?
 
RJNUT
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:55 am

I would have thought this would have been one of their Q400 initial routes..wouldnt it be within the range and scope of what they want to do with that A/C?

I hope LNK and ICT indeed do get the Q400 , but ICT had a bad experience with F9, when they switched to Great Lakes and then the local O/D was invisible....in other words you had to go to Great Lakes to buy a DEN-CICT ticket, not Frontier!
 
alphascan
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 19):
Any updated news regarding this? I thought F9 was to have made up their minds about it this week.

The ball is in CID's court ...not Frontier's. CID or someone representing The Eastern Iowa Airport's interests must show Frontier the money. Then it is a done deal.

It's interesting that the Cedar Rapids Gazette wrote and editiorial endorsing the revenue guarantee. I'm curiuos as to how much money they have ponied up.

Quoting Rjnut (Reply 25):
I would have thought this would have been one of their Q400 initial routes..wouldnt it be within the range and scope of what they want to do with that A/C?

When CEO Potter initially announced the upcoming aquisition of the Q400s, he said to draw a circle around DEN with a 650 mi radius to get an idea of where they would be utilized. I believe that has been reduced to about 500 mi now. Either way , CID is not within the circle. (Although just barely outside of it at 650 mi.)
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 24):
Do you guys still have the PBR brewery?

I'm not sure if you are reffering to the airport restaurant, but it does contain a Sam Adams Brew Pub restaurant in the main terminal......now speaking as an industry in Cedar Rapids, I don't believe we have ever had a PBR Brewery in the city. The big corporate giants in the area include Quaker Oats, General Mills, Ralston Foods, Alliant Energy, Rockwell International, AEGON Insurance Group, Toyota Financial, not to mention 15 minutes down the road in Iowa City is the University of Iowa which generates a good deal of traffic.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 24):
Thanks for the update. 2004 is an odd abnormally to lose that many pax and regain in 2 years. That's great news for CID, plus it makes sense why F9 would look at that market, I remember the 2004 numbers and went off the 477k.

I also read somewhere where CID loses 200,000 passengers a year to other airports, mainly nearby MLI because they have low fare AirTran. MLI's service area covers a portion of the Eastern Iowa Airport's service area. I am sure that included in that 200,000 number would be people also driving to DSM, ORD, and MDW for lower fares as well. Frontier at CID I think would be a good thing as it would capture alot of westbound traffic with lower fares who may have driven to another airport for a cheaper fare.. Allegiant has done real well here with their lower fares.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Makes Offer To Cedar Rapids -CID

Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 22):
I was hoping that UA would blink and realize that their CRJ 200 vs a F9 319 requires a second look at the market, but thus far, nothing from UA.

UAX puts a CR7 on their first run right now, same departure time as Frontier's 319.

Frontier did a double-miles promo out of FAT in January. But I'd really like to see them run some ads again, particularly highlighting their aircraft size and amenities. Since they were originally CR7s and only went mainline in Jan I hear few people who know that it is now a larger aircraft.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

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