ShortSquat
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UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:37 am

Late breaking news from the land of Brown. Sad to see the Three Holer leave yet another airline, http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=9977
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 am

The story states that all the 727s will be placed in short term storage - what exactly does that mean? How long are aircraft generally kept in storage before they are finally scrapped?

Quoting ShortSquat (Thread starter):
Sad to see the Three Holer leave yet another airline,

I agree that it's sad to see these great planes go, but they are probably in need of replacement. They are the old -100 series and as the story suggests, most have been in service for about 40 years.
 
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PM
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 1):
They are the old -100 series and as the story suggests, most have been in service for about 40 years.

True but it is not that long ago that UPS reengined them with RR Tays. I wonder if that now seems like a wasted investment.
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
True but it is not that long ago that UPS reengined them with RR Tays. I wonder if that now seems like a wasted investment.

It has actually been longer than most think, but I am betting the reengining program paid for itself well. Question is, how are they replacing them.
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
I wonder if that now seems like a wasted investment.

Probably not. UPS is so big and has so much money I don't think anyone in the company will even think twice about it. Putting the new engines on those old birds back in the early '90s would almost be like fitting winglets on a 737-300 nowadays - a big investment in the short term, but a huge money saver in the long run (say 5 to 10 years down the road).
 
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RayChuang
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:42 pm

I UPS will retire those re-engined 727-100's because their airframe life has reached the point where any more D-check overhauls won't be worth the money.
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:52 pm

Too bad the inevitable is about to happen. At least there is still Fed Ex for some good 727 sighting. Has UPS only operated the -100 series?
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katwspotter
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:58 pm

Truley sad to see more 727's being taken out of service. At least I get to hear and feel the raw power of them when FedEx flies over my house every week night.
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WesternA318
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting Katwspotter (Reply 7):
Truley sad to see more 727's being taken out of service. At least I get to hear and feel the raw power of them when FedEx flies over my house every week night.

UPS should keep a -100 around just for our spotters sake...
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MCIGuy
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:39 pm

I miss the 727. I had the pleasure of flying on CO's, DL's and TWA's 727's several times in the 70's and 80's.  Smile
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baw2198
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:30 pm

It was fun working the -100's at PIT when UPS had the convertables doing charter work on the weekends down to CAN and the dominican republic. The one unique thing that stands out in my mind about the -100 was having to slide the speed faring aft to get at the rear baggage hold. The latches on the faring would hangup periodically making it fun to deal with in the winter time.
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N1120A
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:33 pm

Quoting Baw2198 (Reply 10):
It was fun working the -100's at PIT when UPS had the convertables doing charter work on the weekends down to CAN

That must have been a hell of a long trip in a 721  Wink
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MCOflyer
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):

I think he meant Cancun. I'm going to miss those a/c from MCO. Everytime I drove past MCO, I would be able to see one 721 sitting on the lone ramp.

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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
Too bad the inevitable is about to happen. At least there is still Fed Ex for some good 727 sighting. Has UPS only operated the -100 series?

UPS operated a few -200 series aircraft till just about right after 9/11. This small subfleet was retired mainly because it was a dozen or less aircraft, and the only one in the fleet using the JT8D. They were able to cut a bit of capacity when they needed to, plus eliminated the spares and maintainence of a (for them) oddball engine type.
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
At least there is still Fed Ex for some good 727 sighting

Probably won't be the case for all that long too, though. Isn't FedEx planning on retiring the 727s once the 757s they've ordered come online?
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:16 am

5 722's were in fleet with UPS. They were not economical since we had the 757.Those were sold to Varig and Transmile. The 757 will move to what cities are left on the 721 fleet. There are only 16 frames that we are talking about . The first re-engined RR Tay 721 flew in 1992 and 52 of them were re-engined. So a 15 year run with a 15 percent reduction in fuel burn for 10 mil per aircraft, the program paid for it's self.
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:38 am

I remember when UPS experimented with their 727 fleet as passenger flyers during the day. They worked the deal with some charter company and even had flight attendants.

It was rather cool, but I missed the opportunity to fly UPS.....
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 16):
I remember when UPS experimented with their 727 fleet as passenger flyers during the day. They worked the deal with some charter company and even had flight attendants.

It was rather cool, but I missed the opportunity to fly UPS.....

There's a really good story posted somewhere here on Anet about the history of UPS and the author goes into great detail about that. I'll have to see if I can find a link to it.

http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=66

There it is.

edit: added link

[Edited 2007-02-24 17:03:31]
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
Too bad the inevitable is about to happen. At least there is still Fed Ex for some good 727 sighting. Has UPS only operated the -100 series?


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Alessandro
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:48 am

Any potential buyers in Africa?
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TheSonntag
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting UPS Pilot (Reply 15):
So a 15 year run with a 15 percent reduction in fuel burn for 10 mil per aircraft, the program paid for it's self.

Add to this that it became Stage III so its landing fees dropped considerably on some airports, as well... They were used for years in CGN, and this would not have been possible if they had kept the old engines.
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
That must have been a hell of a long trip in a 721



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 12):
I think he meant Cancun.

Yup  bigthumbsup 


I don't know the icao 3 letter, but I sure remember the bag tags  Big grin

The return trip and then double handling the bags because of customs, we read a lot of these.


Anybody know why UPS adopted the habit of disconnecting the scissor link during push?
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scottieprecord
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:10 am

Very sad to hear this. My father was one of the project managers for the reengining project... even has his name on the patent. I personally am going to greatly miss them. They always meant a lot to me.


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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:34 am

I have a feeling that these well maintained aircraft will find a new life operating in Africa, Middle East or Asia without too much trouble  Smile
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 19):
Any potential buyers in Africa?



Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 23):
I have a feeling that these well maintained aircraft will find a new life operating in Africa, Middle East or Asia without too much trouble

 checkmark  Maybe also in the Caribbean. The field performance of these aircraft must be astonishing.
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atct
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:02 am

Ohh well, Rest in Peace good planes. Youve dont a great service and you will be missed.

Glad to see Cappy, FedEx, and Astar still have some left.

On a side note: When did Contract Air Cargo ("Trans-Auto") get that 721? I just started seeing it recently.

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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Baw2198 (Reply 21):
I don't know the icao 3 letter

I take it you mean the IATA 3 letter, since ICAO are 4 letter  Wink

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 12):
I think he meant Cancun

I know what he meant

FYI:

IATA: CUN
ICAO: MMUN
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:52 am

I saw a UPS 727 at BFI last week. What a good looking sexy bird. I sure hope they find life elsewhere. They are becoming a very rare sight. I miss the days of flying through MSP/DTW and seeing a ton of them in NW/RC colors. I am sure going to miss this aircraft.
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fr8mech
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting Baw2198 (Reply 21):
Anybody know why UPS adopted the habit of disconnecting the scissor link during push?

Because UPS had a mixed fleet. Very few had the bypass valve installed, so in order to avaid confusion and damage, the practice of disconnecting the lins was adopted.
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G5
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:10 am

Worked for UPS for 3 years while in school. Loaded the 757 on the SDF run and 727-1 & (occasionally -2) on the RFD run. Was a thrilling job as an aviation enthusiast. I can't believe the -100 QFs are done. The Tay re-engine did wonders for this plane! They're much more efficient than the P&W powered machines...and quiet. They rivalled the 757 during the taxi and take off as far as dB levels are concerned. I believe most were configured to the -QC standards when UPS ventured into the passenger sector, so I can realistically see them moving on to another freight or passenger carrier. Personally, I hope they do. Unless the airframes are completely worn out due to cycles, I think they still have some years ahead! Definitely a durable & well engineered aircraft! Maybe I'll make them an offer.
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:29 am

Sad to see the 27s leaving. As others have stated, I hope they find work elsewhere. Are these birds owned by UPS? If so, is there any possibility that they could rejoin the fleet after several months in the desert?
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UPS Pilot
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:07 pm

They are owned by UPS. This is short term storage for 16 frames. They won't be beercans yet but they will be once they have depreciated enough. Could possibly be used as hot spares next peak if still parked and are working.
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting UPS Pilot (Reply 31):
They won't be beercans yet but they will be once they have depreciated enough.

Those aircraft are almost definately full depreciated.
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fxramper
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:42 pm

We'll be short behind them with the first few 757F flying by December.
 
siromega
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting UPS Pilot (Reply 31):
They are owned by UPS. This is short term storage for 16 frames. They won't be beercans yet but they will be once they have depreciated enough. Could possibly be used as hot spares next peak if still parked and are working.

This is what I was thinking - why not park them until November and the Christmas rush comes along and they need to move more. I assume the pilots with the 727 ratings will still be around, just flying other A/C in the meantime.
 
vatry
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:11 pm

Weren't these aircraft also upgraded with a Collins EFIS system and other cockpit mods?
 
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 23):
have a feeling that these well maintained aircraft will find a new life operating in Africa, Middle East or Asia without too much trouble

I'm not so sure about that......if they were 'conventional' 727s, they'd probably be snapped up....BUT they've got Tays, EFIS, HUD.....that'll make them more difficult to get rid of.
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:01 am

There is a AD that came out last may. Operators have 2 years to comply. If a check is due before the 2 years then it would have to be inspected at the time of the check. Other AD's are out there too. This just would make the 100 uneconomical to comply with the AD's. What I mean't about depreciation is there still is time to comply with the AD's and there is still cycles left on some of the frames before a phase check is due. I don't expect any 727's flying for brown after this year.

AOG you are right. UPS 727's will be scrapped when they are no longer useful for UPS. The avionics, engines and other parts will be sold. The frame will be turned into scrap.
 
Candid76
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RE: UPS To Retire All 727s By Aug

Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting UPS Pilot (Reply 37):
AOG you are right. UPS 727's will be scrapped when they are no longer useful for UPS. The avionics, engines and other parts will be sold. The frame will be turned into scrap.

I'd expect that the re-engining of these aircraft will be their ultimate downfall, simply because their engines will be worth more than an original specification 721 so they will be attractive for parting out. This is a pity, as I've seen very few of them and am unlikely to get to Roswell in the near future!