jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:28 pm

Hey guys recently there has been a slow but steady exodus of "regulars" from Singapore Changi Aiport. Within a span of a year(?), SIN has seen carriers like Air New Zealand, SAS, Finnair and Austrian announce their pull-outs. Over the years, Changi has also seen carriers like Aeroflot, Royal Jordanian, Kuwait Airways, Egyptair, Air Madagascar and once even LOT Polish dropping SIN from its network, opting to focus their South East Asian operations out of BKK.

While everyone keeps lauding SIN as a strong aviation hub, the trend seems to reflect that the latter seems to play second fiddle to BKK. I wonder why an issue like this wasn't raised on our local dailies, especially since the airlines SIN has been losing are long term regulars.

Some reasons I can postulate:
(i) Strength of SIA's product/network edging out competitors with a weaker product
(ii) Mad competition on the SIN-BKK-SIN (many of these carriers used to operate SIN as a tagon to BKK)
(iii) Greater tourist influx into Thailand
(iv) Lower costs of BKK for crew,accomodation
et al...

Pretty worrying trend eh? (for SIN at least..) Wonder what the authorities make of this, or they are just hushing up this not-so-glorious aspect of Changi..
 
GneissGuy
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:42 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:20 pm

Good observation, i think points 2,3 and 4 are most valid.

Whilst SIN has been losing some airlines, SIA has steadily been increasing its routes and frequencies, not to mention all the hustle and bustle of the LCCs led by Tiger Airways.

And of many of those carriers which pulled out, they still maintain a presence via codesharing agreements (NZ, Austrian, SAS etc) albeit mostly with SIA.

BKK certainly commands more O&D traffic, but SIN's transit traffic is huge.

And as you mentioned, SIA's superior product made competiton on certain routes very difficult for these carriers which used to compete with SIA.

I'm not so worried about this, the loss of carriers does not equate to lower connectivities nor lower volumes. It's probably just the market at work, consolidating its resources i guess?

Thanks for the insights!
 
SK973
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:30 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:19 pm

I know SAS dropped the BKK-SIN-BKK tagon because they though it was too expensive with extra crew layovers in BKK just to fly to SIN and the yields for the tagon didn't justify it with all the new competition on the route...  Sad
 
jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting SK973 (Reply 2):
I know SAS dropped the BKK-SIN-BKK tagon because they though it was too expensive with extra crew layovers in BKK just to fly to SIN and the yields for the tagon didn't justify it with all the new competition on the route...

Hey SK973.. you named yourself after the outbound sector from CPH to BKK/SIN.. fond memories of that flight ? Hehe.. well I used to take SK972 occasionally up to BKK, and I sure never forgot those feisty Nordic ladies who mastered their own style of making recalcitrant passengers put their seats up for arrival. Oh and Finnair's one-stop HEL service will be sadly missed as well, with memories of this flight attendant dressed up as Santa Claus ho-hoing down the aisles prior to arrival in BKK after a pretty restful X'mas flight from HEL.
 
SK973
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:30 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting JeffrySkY (Reply 3):
Hey SK973.. you named yourself after the outbound sector from CPH to BKK/SIN.. fond memories of that flight ?

Yeah, I've nonreved a lot to SIN since 2001 and took SK973/972 a few times but usually it would be so full to/from BKK that I had to go with other carriers instead.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9736
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting JeffrySkY (Thread starter):
Some reasons I can postulate:
(i) Strength of SIA's product/network edging out competitors with a weaker product
(ii) Mad competition on the SIN-BKK-SIN (many of these carriers used to operate SIN as a tagon to BKK)
(iii) Greater tourist influx into Thailand
(iv) Lower costs of BKK for crew,accomodation
et al...

(v) code share arrangements
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
longhaul67
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:17 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting JeffrySkY (Thread starter):
Some reasons I can postulate:
(i) Strength of SIA's product/network edging out competitors with a weaker product

Well, if this is the main reason I can see why it is of no concern to Singaporean authorities
 
SRMD11
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:48 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:41 am

I guess, it has not only to do with Changi or competition. It has to do with the fact, that Singapore's golden years are over...
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:47 am

Here are some very basic generalizations you can make when comparing SIN and BKK:

BKK: More O&D; less transit
SIN: More transit, less O&D

BKK: Less business traffic proportionally, hence pax traffic generally lower yield
SIN: More business traffic proportionally, hence generally higher yield

BKK: Attracts traffic from a more diverse range of cities
SIN: Attracts traffic from a less diverse range of cities

BKK: Cargo generally less lucrative
SIN: Cargo generally more lucrative

BKK: Less expensive to operate to
SIN: More expensive to operate to

What we are seeing here is the market adjusting to itself. The airlines that can profitably sustain service to SIN with a decent balance of pax and cargo yield and load will continue to fly to SIN and consolidate their operations by strengthening frequencies and hubbing operations (eg. QF). The rest will leave or stick to just BKK.

Would I be concerned if I was in the CAAS? Probably. But, realistically, are there any carriers that don't already fly to SIN that can sustain service to SIN? CAAS might just have to content itself with being able to keep a smaller number of strong and loyal carriers, which isn't a bad thing either.
 
iahflyer
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 8):
BKK: Less expensive to operate to
SIN: More expensive to operate to

What are the operating costs for a 747 into BKK and SIN rspectively?
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
KFly
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 8:07 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting JeffrySkY (Thread starter):
Over the years, Changi has also seen carriers like Aeroflot, Royal Jordanian, Kuwait Airways, Egyptair, Air Madagascar and once even LOT Polish dropping SIN from its network, opting to focus their South East Asian operations out of BKK.

Interesting. I read this from the Changi Airport website http://www.changiairport.com/changiw...es/2007/news_0001.html?__locale=en

In summary, SIN is experiencing record traffic, which is contrary to what you're saying.

Fair use excerpt:

Media Release
16 Jan 2007
Changi Airport’s Traffic Hits All-Time High of 35 Million Passengers
The airport also moved a record 1.9 million tonnes of cargo and received a record of 25 international accolades in 2006
Singapore Changi Airport experienced robust growth in passenger and cargo traffic in 2006. The airport, which celebrated its 25th anniversary in 2006, achieved a new record of 35.03 million passenger movements, or 8% year-on-year (y-o-y) increase while its cargo throughout also hit an all-time high of 1.91 million tonnes, representing a 4.2% y-o-y increase over 2005.

In December 2006, Changi Airport handled some 3.42 million passengers to post an increase of 10.1% compared to December 2005. It was the busiest month last year, which saw over 100,000 daily travellers passing through almost everyday of the month. December period is a popular month for leisure travel, partly because it coincides with the school vacation in Singapore.

Today, Changi Airport is connected to more than 180 cities in 57 countries by more than 80 airlines. The number of weekly scheduled flights also reached 4,199, a new record for the airport. In 2006, seven new airlines joined the Changi air network. They are Shanghai Airlines Cargo, Egypt Air, Cebu Pacific, South African Airways, Air India Express, Jetstar Airways and Air Madagascar. Among these, Cebu Pacific operates from the Budget Terminal, along with Tiger Airways.


K
Yes, I love to have some warm nuts.
 
jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting KFly (Reply 10):

Interesting. I read this from the Changi Airport website http://www.changiairport.com/changiw...es/2007/news_0001.html?__locale=en

In summary, SIN is experiencing record traffic, which is contrary to what you're saying.

I did read that article sometime ago, and I was stunned to see Egyptair and Air Madagascar as part of the "new" carriers joining SIN, only to realise it was referred to their code-share operations. These 2 carriers used to operate their own metal into Singapore, and yes, they have now consolidated their operations in BKK as well.

I guess the point I was raising was not so much about traffic per se. The local LCC traffic is huge (and booming), and the existing pool of carriers, namely EK, QR, and of course QF/Jetstar have progressively strengthened their SIN operations. As such, while the absolute number of carriers has decreased, the effect on traffic/cargo volume is almost a non-issue with most of the other carriers taking up the slack. I was pleasantly surprised to see Turkish Airlines upgrade its SIN operation to a non-stop service with a modern PTV-equipped A332, from the dreary one-stop service via BKK. Turkish Airlines TK061/A340:SIN-BKK-IST (+Pics) (by Jeffrysky Jan 1 2005 in Trip Reports)

All in all, as Ex-SQer alluded to, it is probably more essential for SIN to have a loyal base of customers who are commited to operating a robust service, relative to having a melting pot of carriers operating infrequent, multi-stop services.

That said, I will be missing the sight of SAS A340s descending into SIN in the fading evening sun, with red fiery engines the shade of the SIA girls' lipstick!
 
longhaul67
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:17 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting JeffrySkY (Reply 11):
That said, I will be missing the sight of SAS A340s descending into SIN in the fading evening sun, with red fiery engines the shade of the SIA girls' lipstick!

Hehe...good one!
Doesn't seem like SK is destined to return to SIN any time soon. There is just too much STAR traffic between BKK-SIN
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:34 pm

Considering BKK has some issues maybe traffic might start to return to SIN
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
sq452
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:31 am

I knew that some of the european carriers operating the the SIN>BKK route would have to pull out eventually. When you think about all the competition on that route, its just incredible to me that some lasted as long as they did. SQ/TG dominate this route, and you have 4 european carriers operating this route as well (SAS, Finnair, Swiss, and Turkish). Turkish decided to do non-stop flights from Istanbul to SIN on their A330's (good call!), leaving only Swiss as a potential.

Like everyone is saying, this is just the market correcting itself...
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting LongHaul67 (Reply 12):
There is just too much STAR traffic between BKK-SIN

but perhaps not enough STAR traffic between BKK and KUL - judging from my last trip to KUL... maybe there might be a slight adjustment here soon...
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4071
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting JeffrySkY (Thread starter):
SIN has seen carriers like Air New Zealand, SAS, Finnair and Austrian announce their pull-outs.

If you noticed, some of these carriers are not very healthy in their own right so they are affected by what is happening back in their home base. European carriers operating flights to SE Asian cities content with yield issues a lot especially when operating to destinations like BKK. Tag ons are also notoriously expensive so unless they can make a non-stop flight work in SIN, it is otherwise better to cut losses now than to let it bleed come more.

ANZ and SAS have very strong competition from SIA who also flies the same route. SAS tends to be the BIG loser here as SIA's flights to CPH are nonstop. The same logic can be applied for LX's ZRH-BKK-SIN as I see it the next to go. My uneducated guess would be LX is still trying to make a profit from this route. Especially when published Business Class fares between SIN-BKK vv are only S$500+, you know they are operating that flight at a loss.

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 7):
I guess, it has not only to do with Changi or competition. It has to do with the fact, that Singapore's golden years are over...

And what made you say that? With Terminal 3 opening in a few months time, the competitve ante has been upped again overshadowing the white elephant in KLIA, and the cracking Suvarnabhumi in BKK. These are the 2 airports closest to SIN that has the potential to push it off the pedestal and lose their Best Airport title.

So I don't think your statement is valid because SIN will be a strong contender for many years to come.

Quoting JeffrySkY (Reply 11):
That said, I will be missing the sight of SAS A340s descending into SIN in the fading evening sun, with red fiery engines the shade of the SIA girls' lipstick!

That is a very poetic statement. I used to fly this route a lot too from the time when they used to fly the all-white 747-200s, to the 767-300s. In fact, my very first experience in Business Class was actually with SK on their 747 back in 1985!
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
anawat
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 07, 2001 7:07 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:36 am

BKK also has geographically advantage over SIN. It's more central to other SE destinations and china.

I hope that they get their shits together in BKK and fix problems with the new airport.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 7):
I guess, it has not only to do with Changi or competition. It has to do with the fact, that Singapore's golden years are over...

= What an ignorant thing to say. Traffic to SIN has been actually rising and the Changi press release is complimented by data from other global sources. A market correction is bound to happen in a world of alliances which promotes duopolistic tendancies. While some European carriers have withdrawn service, there has been tremendous growth on SIN-China/India routes ... and the growth is in China and India and not some stagnant market elsewhere.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:17 pm

What SIN probably needs is more of the likes of Turkish, QF and EK , who are willing to bite the bullet to offer competitive products/services that will match, if not surpass, those of the homegrown carriers i.e. daily non-stop frequencies/refurbished cabins. If carriers are unable to match this, code-sharing is simply much more cost-effective. I have to mention Turkish again, because their choice to drop the BKK stop and deploy a smaller but refurnished A330 to SIN reflects a certain commitment to the route. Even the new Cebu Pacific chose to start out strong with competitive fares/daily operations.

There MUST be an attempt to match the homegrown carriers in their own ground, if not the battle for a market share is already half-lost in a sense. Homegrown carriers already have good connectivity and better rapport with the locals (caveat: not always - think Indonesia), to begin with, so to commence a service with sparse frequencies and an archaic product is probably equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot.

Harsh as it sounds, I feel that "half-baked" operations or tag-ons/2-weekly operations/multi-stop services/services with low connectivity just end up proving more pricey and painful for carriers. Besides QF's 3x-service to CDG, think Transaero's 2x-weekly service to Moscow.. one wonders how these operations would ever survive. I am also pretty sceptical of LH's 4-weekly KUL-BKK-FRA service when MH is offering a non-stop 5-weekly service, although I could be wrong.

In fairness, it's not always the choice of carriers. It probably depends on government approval (as in QF's case), fleet availability, willingness of crew to operate a longer stretch w/o stops and many other factors.
 
GneissGuy
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:42 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 7):
I guess, it has not only to do with Changi or competition. It has to do with the fact, that Singapore's golden years are over...

Well, i beg to differ. I think it has just started. With the LCC boom, A380 aircraft and the opening of Terminal 3 next year for SIA's use, the future for Changi looks bright.
 
EDICHC
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:38 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:01 am

I really rate Changi the best airport I ever stopped over in (and SQ the best carrier). Looking forward to passing through again next month.
A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28
 
sq452
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 20):
Well, i beg to differ. I think it has just started. With the LCC boom, A380 aircraft and the opening of Terminal 3 next year for SIA's use, the future for Changi looks bright.

.

I thought it was all the terminal 1 carriers would move to terminal 3 when it opened, and Changi would either renovate, or demolish and rebuild terminal 1??? I heard this somewhere here in Singapore, forget where.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
GneissGuy
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:42 pm

RE: Exodus From Singapore Changi..

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 22):
Quoting GneissGuy (Reply 20):
Well, i beg to differ. I think it has just started. With the LCC boom, A380 aircraft and the opening of Terminal 3 next year for SIA's use, the future for Changi looks bright.

.

I thought it was all the terminal 1 carriers would move to terminal 3 when it opened, and Changi would either renovate, or demolish and rebuild terminal 1??? I heard this somewhere here in Singapore, forget where.

Nope, this is not true. Terminal 3 is EXCLUSIVELY for SQ and will have A380 handling capability for SQ's new birds. And will provide the additional capacity for SQ's expansion plans.

T1 will remain, and will be renovated but kept open.

Changi is in a constant state of renovation, a couple of years back T1 got a facelift, T2's just finished last year, and now its T1's turn again.

Demolish T1? I think you must have heard wrongly.........

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