NDSchu777
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:29 am

GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:03 pm

Here's a link to a video of the first flight of the GEnx on the flying test-bed 747.

http://www.geaviation.com/engines/commercial/genx/firstflight.html

Can't wait to see it flying on the 787 later this year!
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:30 pm

That engine looks great on the 747 testbed!
I just wish they could find a way to fit the GEnx-1B (as shown with 111" fan) on the 748. It just seems strange that with a total nacelle diameter only 12" more than the GEnx-2B67, Boeing would find a way to make it fit rather than having to design a smaller fan version with a lower bpr and lower efficiency. I mean, couldn't you simply add 12" to the landing gear height? Even if it meant totally redesigning the landing gear, it would still be more than worth it for the overall efficiency gains of the bigger fan. In fact I'd be willing to wager that the larger fan would be worth at least 300nm on the 748. I mean we are talking about a 28% difference in bypass ratio.

That's my two cents anyway.
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:32 pm

Quoting NDSchu777 (Thread starter):
Can't wait to see it flying on the 787 later this year!

Neither can I!  bigthumbsup 
I love ASO!
 
NW7E7
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:43 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 1):
I mean, couldn't you simply add 12" to the landing gear height? Even if it meant totally redesigning the landing gear,

Im not an expert on the 747 but im pretty sure hyd. lines, wiring, etc. would have to be rerouted and bulkheads would have to be shaved down in order to allow for larger MLG wheel wells.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:39 pm

Wow , I´m so happy LH has ordered GEnx on the 748Is !
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting NW7E7 (Reply 3):
Im not an expert on the 747 but im pretty sure hyd. lines, wiring, etc. would have to be rerouted and bulkheads would have to be shaved down in order to allow for larger MLG wheel wells.

Which surely results in so much additional weight that the 300nm gain SCAT15F suggested is eaten up pretty fast.
BTW are all versions of GEnx avaiable as bleedair and bleedless variants?
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:14 am

I love the part of the video where it looks like they are putting the engine together from a "kit" - well, I guess it is but they make it seem so...so...like something you get mail order. Really nice.

Did they take off with just the GEnx engine? Looked like only one throttle was advanced.

Would have liked to hear the engine on the plane, though.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1556
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:21 am

It doesn't look like automation has made its way to the engine assembly process. No wonder they're so expensive. Didja see all that gleaming metal on the interior shaft of the engine?

Why can't they fit this engine on the 748? It was a bit bigger than the other 747 engines, but it obviously fit under the wing. What's that about?
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
Why can't they fit this engine on the 748?

I wouldn't want to land such a machine in cross wind... The ground clearance with the GEnX-2B is small enough as it is, I guess that's the reason to why the GEnX-1B won't find its way to the 748.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:05 am

Have the Trent engines already had the first flight?
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
cirrusdriver
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:29 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 6):
Would have liked to hear the engine on the plane, though.

My thoughts exactly! I wonder if they haven't quite reached the expected decible level from the engine, hence, no sound? I wish they showed more of the takeoff run. Either way, this is exciting stuff!
 
darkblue
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 1):
I just wish they could find a way to fit the GEnx-1B (as shown with 111" fan) on the 748. It just seems strange that with a total nacelle diameter only 12" more than the GEnx-2B67, Boeing would find a way to make it fit rather than having to design a smaller fan version with a lower bpr and lower efficiency. I mean, couldn't you simply add 12" to the landing gear height? Even if it meant totally redesigning the landing gear, it would still be more than worth it for the overall efficiency gains of the bigger fan. In fact I'd be willing to wager that the larger fan would be worth at least 300nm on the 748. I mean we are talking about a 28% difference in bypass ratio.

Weight is big factor here. 12" increased diameter is at least 1000 weight per engine. That's 4000lbs for the engine set. Add on weight for strengthing the pylon and wing structure. Add on weight for your taller landing gear. I won't even try to guess the total increase in aircraft weight, but I'm quite sure the improved efficiency gained from the higher BPR would not be anywhere near enough to offset the weight increases.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
It doesn't look like automation has made its way to the engine assembly process.

The engine shown in the video is a prototype, and is essentially built by hand. Once an engine enters service, the mass production does allow for more efficient production.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
Why can't they fit this engine on the 748? It was a bit bigger than the other 747 engines, but it obviously fit under the wing. What's that about?

1. The GEnx-1B would not be an optimal power plant for the 747-8

2. What's acceptable ground clearance for experimental purposes is not always acceptable for everyday purposes.
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2635
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:36 am

Great looking engine. Can't wait to see it on the 787s.
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2090
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
2. What's acceptable ground clearance for experimental purposes is not always acceptable for everyday purposes.

Well, one thing they could do, is use the same pylon they used when they tested the GE90-115b on the 747. That pylon positioned the engine in front of the wing and raised the engine so that the top of the fan case was actually higher than the bottom panel of the wing.

Also, why are the chevrons not on the main-thrust exhaust and only on the bypass-air exhaust? Boeing pictures have shown the chevrons to be on both.
 
luke7e7
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:16 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 4):

I guess they didn't have the other option , did they?
 
F14D4ever
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:20 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
Well, one thing they could do, is use the same pylon they used when they tested the GE90-115b on the 747. That pylon positioned the engine in front of the wing and raised the engine so that the top of the fan case was actually higher than the bottom panel of the wing.

That engine position relative to wing is far from optimal, and is unacceptable for airline use. There are aerodynamic reasons for placing the engine exhaust streamtube well clear of the wing.
"He is risen, as He said."
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:51 am

Beatiful, very big engin. Could it be made to 115k Pounds like ge-90-115B
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:49 am

Just out of curiosity, in the video, what does that huge golf ball looking thing do that they placed in front of the engine test?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
jetset7e7
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 18):
Just out of curiosity, in the video, what does that huge golf ball looking thing do that they placed in front of the engine test?

Yeah thats what I was wondering, engine looks sweet! Better than the GE90 beasts!

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
747400sp
Posts: 3855
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:50 pm

Good video. But I wish they let us here how the engine sound.
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 17):
Could it be made to 115k Pounds like ge-90-115B

No, the engine core is not designed for that.
 
iboam
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:47 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 6):

Yeah it looked like only one throttle was advanced. Is one GEnx have enough thrust to get a 747 off the ground all by it self? Maybe with an almost completely empty plane.
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:32 am

Guys, you're reading too much into a collection of clips spliced together for a PR video. That was almost certainly a clip of them testing the engine on the ground, not a clip of the cockpit for the actual first flight of the engine.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
F14D4ever
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:20 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 18):
Just out of curiosity, in the video, what does that huge golf ball looking thing do that they placed in front of the engine test?

That's the Turbulence Control Structure (TCS), designed to eliminate inlet distortion due to crosswinds and gust effects during ground test. Enables consistent inlet airflow patterns for test-to-test comparison of engine data. The clip was almost certainly shot at Peebles, Ohio.
"He is risen, as He said."
 
GEnxPower
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:43 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 1):
just wish they could find a way to fit the GEnx-1B (as shown with 111" fan) on the 748. It just seems strange that with a total nacelle diameter only 12" more than the GEnx-2B67, Boeing would find a way to make it fit rather than having to design a smaller fan version with a lower bpr and lower efficiency

Although BPR improves efficiency, BPR is not the only factor for efficiency. With a smaller diameter fan, and only a smaller LP Turbine needed to power it, you are saving a lot on engine weight, which is also a big bonus for efficiency. There are going to be 4 engines anyway, no need to carry around all the 4x extra weight on every B747-8 flights. The extra power won't help and you take the weight penalty.

Shorter fan allows for higher LP Spool RPM, getting rid of blade tip transonic problems and that's a boost to OPR (Overall pressure ratio), and high OPR is great for efficient and clean combustion. There is always an engineering design trade off, performance, and mission requirements. There is also engine life cycles recovery on such a redesign too.

How about material? The fan blades and fan case costs a lot of money per pound of raw material. Those are highly engineered high tech material that requires very expensive manufacturing process. This could be cost savings for Boeing, GE and even to the airliners and customers.

Moreover, the lighter engines we design frees up flexibility of the wing design for Boeing. They won't need to carry extra weights on their wings, and wing reinforcements/structures can be adjusted down for weight, aerodynamics and vibration advantages.

So it is a lot of work to redesign? Definitely. But we want a great engine and a great airplane, not another 747 slapped on with another engine that's already out there...plus it keeps me employed. We take some penalty from BPR, yes, but we try to gain back other opportunities given the change in situation/requirement.

[Edited 2007-03-05 00:34:12]
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:53 am

Just fantastic! The engines are the most fascinating part of a modern commercial airliner!

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
It doesn't look like automation has made its way to the engine assembly process. No wonder they're so expensive. Didja see all that gleaming metal on the interior shaft of the engine?

I toured GEAE once. You'd be amazed at how little "automation" is used to produce a jet engine. The huge price tag on one of these beauties has little to do with assembly inefficienies. It has faaaar more to do with the seemingly-impossible amount of engineering required to develop a machine this fine, combined with the expensive materials used to build it.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:06 pm

Interesting to see that they super-cooled parts to make them fit together about 5 seconds into the video.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
LimaNiner
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
It doesn't look like automation has made its way to the engine assembly process. No wonder they're so expensive. Didja see all that gleaming metal on the interior shaft of the engine?

Besides being the very first prototype, think about the production volumes of these things: if Boeing manages to sell 250 748's (good luck!!), we're still talking about "only" 1000 engines over the lifetime of the product, worldwide. It doesn't really make sense to set up a full-blown automated assembly line for that, does it?

Compare that to the car industry, where a typical model like the Camry, Accord, or Taurus will sell hundreds of thousands of units per year in the U.S. alone -- it makes a whole lot of sense to automate there...
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:23 am

I saw that engine on its way to VCV about 2 weeks ago on the back of that truck in the video. I knew it was some kind of aircraft engine, but I didn't know it was the GEnx. Pretty interesting stuff.
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:41 am

re: GEnxPower,

Thanks for the great info- I didn't realize there were so many advantages for the smaller fan.  bigthumbsup 

BTW; given that the MTOW of the 748 has increased by 10,000lb to 970k lb (versus the original 960K lb), do you think that the GEnx-2B67 will be re-rated to, say, 67,500 lbf thrust onstead of the original 66.5k lb? After all, it is "-2B67", not "-2B66".
 
NDSchu777
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:29 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:00 am

Another update on the GEnx development program from FI:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ches-peak-of-genx-test-period.html

Looks like its going to be a busy few months for this engine.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 23):
Guys, you're reading too much into a collection of clips spliced together for a PR video. That was almost certainly a clip of them testing the engine on the ground, not a clip of the cockpit for the actual first flight of the engine.

 checkmark 
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FTOHIST
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 6):

The shots of the FO moving only #2's throttle was in a pre-flight engines off condition, where they go through test points that will take place during the flight. The camera crew only shoots video of the first flight day activities, so it was THE day, but not at the time of takeoff.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 31):
Looks like its going to be a busy few months for this engine.

Yeah, but there's nothing so fine as the feeling of "on time" when undertaking project-based work. "On time" may only be one-upped by "on time and on budget" but even if a project is over budget, on time is an effective salve for any scrapes along the way.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting FTOHIST (Reply 33):
The shots of the FO moving only #2's throttle was in a pre-flight engines off condition, where they go through test points that will take place during the flight. The camera crew only shoots video of the first flight day activities, so it was THE day, but not at the time of takeoff.

Thanks for the clarification. I remembered back when they were doing T7 engine tests, the 747 testbed flew with just the new engine - at some point during the test flight. This video seemed to suggest something more than that this time, but O know now it's just editing. Thanks again.
 
darkblue
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
Also, why are the chevrons not on the main-thrust exhaust and only on the bypass-air exhaust? Boeing pictures have shown the chevrons to be on both.

The GEnx-1B (787) only has chevrons on the fan nozzle. The small gain in noise margin was needed to justify the penalty to performance. The Boeing pictures your have seen with chevrons on both nozzles were probably the GEnx-2B (747-8). Chevrons are to be put on both fan and core nozzles because acoustics are more critical on the 747-8 and they were willing to take the performance penalty.

Also just to clarify, when you say "main-thrust exhaust", you really mean core nozzle thrust and this is certainly not the main thrust of the engine as it accounts for only ~20% of the total thrust. The bypass or fan nozzle thrust is really what you should consider to be the "main-thrust exhaust".
 
darkblue
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 30):
BTW; given that the MTOW of the 748 has increased by 10,000lb to 970k lb (versus the original 960K lb), do you think that the GEnx-2B67 will be re-rated to, say, 67,500 lbf thrust onstead of the original 66.5k lb? After all, it is "-2B67", not "-2B66".

Nope... there have been no changes to spec thrust requirements for the aircraft. If a new rating is created (a -2B69 for example), it will not be for MTOW but rather for acoustics.
 
darkblue
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 29):
I saw that engine on its way to VCV about 2 weeks ago on the back of that truck in the video. I knew it was some kind of aircraft engine, but I didn't know it was the GEnx. Pretty interesting stuff.

I'm guessing you were up around Columbus? The engine was transported from Peebles to Rickenbacker by truck before taking a ride on the Antonov to VCV.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:54 am

FYI, First flight of the GE-powered 787 will be at the end of October. Two months after the first 787 flight.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Luke7e7 (Reply 15):
I guess they didn't have the other option , did they?

You´re right! ...  Smile
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
imiakhtar
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:35 am

RE: GEnx First Flight Video

Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 9):
Have the Trent engines already had the first flight?

Unfortunately the GEnx is the soul engine for the 748. However, the GEnx's counterpart on the 787, the Trent 1000 has arrived in the US for testing.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John padgett

Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?