chuchoteur
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What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:28 am

I was wondering what happened to the BA 747 that had a cockpit intrusion and rolled 98 degrees (I believe)?

The airframe was substantially overstressed, and possibly not capable of a ferry flight...
curious to know if there are any pics of it being dismantled.
 
na
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:54 am

When was that and what type of 747? Never heard anything about such incident.
 
aussiestu
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:02 am

I seem to remember that the 747-400 that was involved in the Nairobi incident was G-BNLM. (I think)! If it is then its still currently flying for British Airways. I don't actually remember any of BAs 747-400 being removed from service after this incident. Perhaps one of BAs engineers can confirm and explain any tests that would have needed to be done.
 
GDB
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:53 am

While the intruder event happened, I have never, in years of working in BA Engineering, heard of one of our 747's being retired for any reason, aside from the reason most others airliners are retired.
Except B747-136 G-AWND, stranded in Kuwait as Iraq invaded in 1990, later used as an Iraqi army field latrine, as well as general vandalism before they torched it.
Or any aircraft being 'overstressed', the staff maybe, but not an aircraft!
 
vv701
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:54 am

BA have purchased 57 744s, G-BNLA to 'LZ (excluding G-BNLQ), G-CIVA to 'CZ (excluding G-CIVQ) and G-BYGA to 'GG. All 57 are still in service.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:08 am

If you are referring to this one there was no damage.



Date: 29 DEC 2000
Type: Boeing 747-436
Operator: British Airways
Registration:
C/n / msn:
First flight:
Crew: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 19
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 379
Total: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 398
Airplane damage: None
Location: Nairobi-Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (NBO) (Kenya)
Phase: En route
Nature: International Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: London-Heathrow Airport (LHR/EGLL), United Kingdom
Destination airport: Nairobi-Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (NBO/HKNA), Kenya
Narrative:
During the flight, a 27-year old Kenyan man stormed the cockpit of the aircraft and tried to seize the controls of the aircraft. The autopilot was accidentally turned off as the crew struggled with the man and the aircraft lurched and made sudden manoeuvres. With the help of the passengers, the crew members overpowered the offender and regained control of the flight. Upon landing in Nairobi, six passengers were taken to hospital with injuries caused by the aircraft's violent movement.


http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20001229-1
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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9MMPD
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 4):
BA have purchased 57 744s, G-BNLA to 'LZ (excluding G-BNLQ), G-CIVA to 'CZ (excluding G-CIVQ) and G-BYGA to 'GG. All 57 are still in service.

I have always wondered what is the reason that there is no G-BNLQ and G-CIVQ?
 
vv701
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 6):
I have always wondered what is the reason that there is no G-BNLQ and G-CIVQ?

No British aircraft registration includes the letter 'Q' because of potential confusion with the letter 'O'. However the rest of the world seems to manage all right. Perhaps we Brits are just a shortsighted nation?
 
jbernie
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
Perhaps we Brits are just a shortsighted nation?

or, more cautious and sensible?

Q O and 0 can cause problems...especially if they are not next to each other.
 
LHR777
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:45 pm

Quoting Chuchoteur (Thread starter):
The airframe was substantially overstressed, and possibly not capable of a ferry flight...
curious to know if there are any pics of it being dismantled.

Are you making a bit of an assumption there, or did you read that somewhere? Source, please?
 
sevenforeseven
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:46 pm

There you have it GDB. Yes, you BA guys must be stressed not knowing whats going on.
 
Quetzal
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:32 pm

I seem to remember that the singer Bryan Ferry was onboard, seated in the upper deck, when this incident happened..... for what it's worth!
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
beechnut
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
No British aircraft registration includes the letter 'Q' because of potential confusion with the letter 'O'. However the rest of the world seems to manage all right. Perhaps we Brits are just a shortsighted nation?

Beats the heck out of me how one can confuse "Quebec" and "Oscar"...

Beech
 
RichardPrice
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 12):
Beats the heck out of me how one can confuse "Quebec" and "Oscar"...

Visually and from a distance, they could be.
 
beechnut
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:32 pm

LOO

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Visually and from a distance, they could be.

Yeah but on the radio, one goes by the phonetic alphabet (although airliners use the airline callsign and flight number). Seems to me that the odds of confusion are probably low, the odds of say a G-ABCQ being alongside a G-ABCO on the same field being fairly low especially of both being the same type. As was pointed out, other countries seem to manage OK. I rented a PA28-140 registered C-FAQM for a while before I had my own plane.

Beech
 
GDB
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:01 am

SevenFourSeven, that will teach me to be flippant I guess!
To the point, no-one I know involved in BA 747 maint, from the shop floor to development Engineers, have ever mentioned anything about airframe overstressing, in this incident or any other.
Even beyond this group, had it happened, it would be well known in the airline and the subject of numerous threads here before now.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:17 am

There was an incident where a 747 got into a situation where it broke the sound barrier but it wasn't BA.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
David L
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Chuchoteur (Thread starter):
possibly not capable of a ferry flight

Aparently it was...

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 11):
I seem to remember that the singer Bryan Ferry was onboard, seated in the upper deck, when this incident happened..... for what it's worth!

Sorry!  duck 
 
VC10DC10
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 16):
There was an incident where a 747 got into a situation where it broke the sound barrier but it wasn't BA.

What incident was this? Source?

I had been under the impression that the only airliner that was NOT designed to be supersonic to ever fly supersonically in a controlled manner was a DC8-40 in a shallow dive during a test flight before delivery to Canadian Pacific. That was, of course, quite a while ago. Am I wrong?
 
vv701
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 14):
the odds of say a G-ABCQ being alongside a G-ABCO on the same field being fairly low especially of both being the same type

Not in this case. There is a G-BNLO and a G-CIVO and both are BA 747 436s. If there were a G-BNLQ and/or a G-CIVQ - see Reply 4 - they too would be BA 747 436s. As all 57 of Ba's 747 436s are based at LHR and as most of their fleet fly out from mid morning to early evening and, excepting those on flights to Southern Africa and Australia, mostly return to LHR between early morning and mid afternoon on the following day, the chances of G-BNLO being alongside G-BNLQ or G-CIVO being alongside G-CIVQ at LHR on any particular day are not fairly low but actually quite high.
 
beechnut
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:14 am

Yeah but airliners don't go by their civil registration in normal ops. They go by airline callsign and flight number.

Beech
 
KELPkid
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
No British aircraft registration includes the letter 'Q' because of potential confusion with the letter 'O'. However the rest of the world seems to manage all right. Perhaps we Brits are just a shortsighted nation?

Just as no US civil registration has an "I" (India) or "O" (Oscar) in it (to avoid confusion with the numbers 1 and 0...)  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
David L
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 20):
Yeah but airliners don't go by their civil registration in normal ops.

But there is some possibility for confusion. It hardly throws UK civil aviation into complete disarray by omitting the letter "Q".  Smile
 
vv701
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting David L (Reply 22):
But there is some possibility for confusion. It hardly throws UK civil aviation into complete disarray by omitting the letter "Q".

 checkmark 
I guess we could exclude half the alphabet and still survive.  Wink
 
COIAHLGW
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 16):
There was an incident where a 747 got into a situation where it broke the sound barrier but it wasn't BA.

Airfoilsguy - Are you talking about this incident described in this photograph?



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Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages

 
philb
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:53 pm

Regarding the use of "Q", the British civil register has omitted it, post 1945, to avoid visual confusion with "O" . Whilst this is not an issue today it was, especially in general aviation, until well into the 1970s with many aircraft not having and not requiring radios if operating outside of controlled airspace.

In a similar manner the letters "Q" and "U" were not issued for car registrations to avoid confusion with "O" and "V" ("Q" was used for a limited number of temporarily imported vehicles or those wher there was no known date of first registration).
This seems to have been relaxed under the latest vehicle registration scheme.

It is not only the British bureaucratic mind that has these limitations. The Irish register contains aircraft registrations including "Q" but the authorities will now only issue "Q" on special request.

There was a point to this. The small bar on the "Q" can be missed when carried on an airframe or vehicle and in handwriting. The British bureaucratic mind being what it is would rather eliminate confusion than have to sort out a misidentification - no matter how small the chances of it happening.

It is interesting that "D" hasn't caused confusion and been omitted in a similar manner given the way the letter can resemble an "O" the way it is often applied to aircraft.

Re the supersonic B747, the China Airlines 747SP did achieve supersonic speed in the jet upset incident over the Pacific.
 
BCAL
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:04 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 16):
There was an incident where a 747 got into a situation where it broke the sound barrier but it wasn't BA.



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 18):
What incident was this? Source?

As previously stated this was Air China B747SP Registration N4522V flying from TPI-LAX on February 19, 1985

Source here
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
David L
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RE: What Happened To BA 747 Overstressed Airframe?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 25):
In a similar manner the letters "Q" and "U" were not issued for car registrations to avoid confusion with "O" and "V"

I think "Q" and "O" were both omitted from car registration numbers here - not that it changes the gist of your point.  Smile