eva777sea
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NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:30 am

Me and the family are goin to Hawaii and are probably goin on NW. Now, NW's 753s don't sound as appealing as HA's 763s but i'm tryin to make the best of it. I was wondering, is SEA-HNL ever get equipment upgrades every now and then? Such as an A330? Any answers would be great!
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:49 pm

i'm not much of a NW buff but my thoughts would be no. NW's A330's are used on the intra-Asia/Pacific and Atlantic flights. probably the only time you'll see an A330 touch down in HNL would be from MSP (and DTW, if/when they re-start service).

~B6FA4ever
 
dutchdragon
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:56 pm

Dear EVA777SEA,

Looks like you might either have to wait a while for that to happen unfortunately Sad

According to my latest version of American Express' Executive Travel "Skyguide", NW is only flying there A330's between MSP to HNL and if you want to fly a 777, you would have to fly HNL from either SFO or ORD.

Otherwise, everyone is mostly flying 767's and 757's to and from the mainland to the Hawaiian Islands, other than the 737NG'S from the West Coast and the wide bodies from Asia and the South Pacific.

Since I too live hear in Seattle, and having live litteraly "spitting distance" from SeaTac airport, back in the early 80's, I remember when Northwest, United, Transamerica (anyone remember them ?) and World Airlines were flying 747's to and from Seattle to Honolulu. Sadly, those days are long since gone ! ;'-(

Unless either Hawaiian Air invests in getting bigger widebodies (777's/787's), Aloha Air gets some widebodies and the same could be said for Alaska Air as well, I guess that is what we might be stuck with for some time. Every US airline is flying their bigger widebodies (747's and 777's and A330's) mostly on transpacific and transatlantic flight currently.

I know that Northwest put in a order with Boeing for some 787's in the past 12 months, however, how they are going to use them is the bigger question; are they to add to the NW A330 fleet or to replace them and how will they used, on transatlantic, transpacific or transcontinental flights ? I guess we can only wait and see once they get them. I am still dissapointed that they bought them, the A330's in the first place, since I was hoping that they were going to buy Boeings 767's and/or 777's instead, but that my opinion anyways.

Hope that helps you and give you a "brief" history lesson ! :-P LOL
 
rwsea
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:08 pm

I always wondered why NW didn't send the A330 to HNL. As it currently stands, the NRT/AMS planes sit in SEA for almost 23 hours a day. That's plenty of time for a turn to HNL. I guess they must do maintenance in between the flights. Is that the case?
 
eva777sea
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:39 pm

Thanks for the help guys  Smile

What I meant by A330 service was are there any equipment upgrades every now and then, such as how UA upgrades a SEA flight to a 777 every now and then.
 
alexinwa
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:50 pm

The maintenance base in SEA is still operational, however, not really sure how much of that is needed on brand new 330's??? I always wondered why that 330 sat just off S 188th ST for such a long time. Im with you, going to HNL would make alot more sense than not flying at all.

But then I guess you would have a 753 on the ground for a long time. But why not send it to ANC??? The cargo alone should make that flight worthwhile!?
You mad Bro???
 
m404
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:04 pm

Ref the SEA-ANC route. I know that in the past NW could not use that route due to code share agreements with Alaska A/L. I DON'T know if that still exists but assume so.

As for the long ground time in SEA for the 330, would crew manning questions be the problem for a single SEA/HNL RT?

[Edited 2007-02-28 08:06:19]
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
eva777sea
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting M404 (Reply 6):
Ref the SEA-ANC route. I know that in the past NW could not use that route due to code share agreements with Alaska A/L. I DON'T know if that still exists but assume so.

Well CO flies 753s SEA-ANC and they codeshare with AS don't they? Or do they not codeshare on the ANC flights?
 
flydreamliner
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:47 am

To answer your question, you don't stand a chance of seeing an A330 subbed in for your 753, really.

NW flies A330-300s from MSP and DTW to HNL, and A330-200s from SEA-NRT, but I just could not see any way either of those would get subbed into a 753 route. In all honesty, NW's 757-300s are the nicest narrowbodies in their fleet to fly on, so it shouldn't be a terribly unpleasant flight.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
NWA ARJ
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
NW flies A330-300s from MSP and DTW to HNL

NW does not fly Direct from DTW to HNL.
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burnsie28
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting NWA ARJ (Reply 9):
NW does not fly Direct from DTW to HNL.

Service is expected to be restarted

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 7):
Well CO flies 753s SEA-ANC and they codeshare with AS don't they?

Continental does not serve the SEA-HNL route, they put their flight numbers on NW's flights, as does AS.
 
seattleflyer
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:23 am

The aircraft aside, I would think you would have a better overall experience with Hawaiian over Northworst. It's been quite a while but my experience with Northwest on SEA-HNL was certainly nothing to write home about - less convenient schedule, unfriendly crew, uninspired catering, etc. On the otherhand, I've never been dissappointed by the friendliness of the crew and the quality of service on HA.

HA offers a real meal - for free (and not bad as of last November) - as well as snacks for purchase. They also offer Digiplayer to rent in addition to the overhead shows/movies. If I'm not mistaken, NW only has food for purchase and only offer the overhead movie.

Also, HA 767 have a 2-3-2 configuration which mean your never more than 1 seat from the aisle even when at the window. Whereas NW 757 has 3-3 seating - which I never like - few % aisle seats if that's your preference or further from the aisle if you prefer window seats. Seats are almost 1" wider on HA.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:56 am

On Sidestep I found SEA-HNL on HA for $347.00 R/T. Equipment is a 763.

Not knowing when you want to travel, I used outbound and return dates in mid to late April. The 763 Its not an A330 however its larger than a 757. Aloha
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
baw716
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:04 am

Well, since I too live in the Seattle area, thought I'd throw my two cents worth in...

Have to agree with our esteemed colleagues on this forum when saying it is highly unlikely that NW would put an A330 on SEA-HNL (remember, never say never...because one never knows when never doesn't apply, right?....sorry, the meds).

NW 753s are just as uncomfortable as NWs 752s. The big difference is that they are newer and (I believe) have a different Y class seat (but no PTV).

Now HA 763s are configured for 32 in pitch and an 18 in wide seat. I'd take that bird to HNL in a heartbeat. We had the same configuration on the AZ birds we had flying SFO-MXP for 12 hours nonstop which I have flown in Y class and survived quite well...SEA-HNL is about 6 hrs westbound on a bad day and about 5 hrs coming back (especially this time of year with an El Nino and all the Pineapple Expresses we've gotten this year). Right at the moment, it is snowing hard here (yes, on Feb 28 it is snowing in Seattle, go figure), so Hawaii looks really appealing right now, although at the moment I couldn't stand the flying (for reasons which are explained in a couple of my other posts).

The A330s that operate from here go SEA-NRT, SEA-AMS and occasionally, SEA-MSP (probably for maintenance rotation on flights from overseas).

Since my FF miles are with SkyTeam, if I went to Hawaii, I'd probably scoot down to SFO on AS and take DL (who operate B767-400s to Hawaii...I've flown it to HNL...pretty comfortable in Y class). However, that adds about four hours to the trip in each direction (and about an extra 1500 miles to my account  Smile ).

Of course, we could all wait for AS to get their ETOPS certification...then we'd be flying a 737-700 to Hawaii. However, I don't think that's going to happen before the original poster travels to Hawaii. The configuration on the AS birds is far more comfortable than anybody else's narrowbodies up and down the west coast.

I guess my final word on this is that there are far worse things than NWs 753s to Hawaii, so I'd just take your favorite sleep formula and think about 80+ degree weather rather than snow. The trip will go faster that way.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
NWA ARJ
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
Service is expected to be restarted

When is that going to happen? It does not show that in the reservation system
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burnsie28
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:43 am

Right, winter schedules wont come out for quite sometime yet, its talked about coming back seasonal for winter to Detroit, but no guarantee.

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 13):
NW 753s are just as uncomfortable as NWs 752s. The big difference is that they are newer and (I believe) have a different Y class seat (but no PTV).

The 753's seats I found cushier and more comfortable when I flew MSP-LAX.

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 13):
Of course, we could all wait for AS to get their ETOPS certification...then we'd be flying a 737-700 to Hawaii.

Only if NW drops their Hawaii routes. AS and NW have a gentlemans agreement with one another, they won't compete on the same routes.
 
Chugach
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 7):

Well CO flies 753s SEA-ANC and they codeshare with AS don't they? Or do they not codeshare on the ANC flights?

CO doesn't codeshare with AS on the SEA-ANC portion of those CO flights. However, they DO codeshare with AS on AS-operated SEA-ANC.
GO ROCKETS
 
Viscount724
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting Dutchdragon (Reply 2):
I remember when Northwest, United, Transamerica (anyone remember them ?) and World Airlines were flying 747's to and from Seattle to Honolulu. Sadly, those days are long since gone

Braniff also operated the 747 SEA-HNL briefly in 1979. It only lasted a few months before they dropped the route..
 
eva777sea
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
Continental does not serve the SEA-HNL route,

Never said they did... They used to operate DC-10s on SEA-HNL before they were retired, if an A332 really sits for 23 hours what is stopping them?
 
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ER757
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting SeattleFlyer (Reply 11):
The aircraft aside, I would think you would have a better overall experience with Hawaiian over Northworst. It's been quite a while but my experience with Northwest on SEA-HNL was certainly nothing to write home about - less convenient schedule, unfriendly crew, uninspired catering, etc. On the otherhand, I've never been dissappointed by the friendliness of the crew and the quality of service on HA.

 checkmark  I've flown both and there's no comparision (even when NW flew the DC10). HA is a far more pleasant experience.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
Quoting BAW716 (Reply 13):
Of course, we could all wait for AS to get their ETOPS certification...then we'd be flying a 737-700 to Hawaii.

Only if NW drops their Hawaii routes. AS and NW have a gentlemans agreement with one another, they won't compete on the same routes.

Don't bet the farm on this one - watch the schedules come this fall..........
 
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aloha73g
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:54 pm

As a sidenote, begining on June 22 Hawaiian is increasing its year-round HNL-SEA flights from 10 weekly to 2 daily, in addition to the daily OGG-SEA flight....all on 763s.

-Aloha!
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burnsie28
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 19):
Don't bet the farm on this one - watch the schedules come this fall..........

So then you are saying that NW is going to drop their Hawaii routes, or AS is going to violate the agreement with Northwest.
 
baw716
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:56 pm

Burnsie28,

I have it on very good authority that AS is planning on flying Hawaii and is somewhere in the ETOPS process. AS/NW has a marketing agreement; that's pretty much all. AS/NW cannot have a "gentleman's agreement" on routes; that would be in violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Act (as it applies to airlines).

It is my understanding that they will fly ANC-HNL and possibly SEA-HNL; the issue for them has been getting the right ETOPS certification to fly ANC-HNL with a 737-700. The only question remaining is will they fly SEA-HNL with a -700 or a -800. As to when this service will start, I don't know that...but I'm sure it will be sometime this year.

As to affecting the relationship between AS/NW, having AS fly SEA-HNL will actually help NW and SkyTeam in general, since AS has marketing agreements with CO/DL/NW; the three domestic players in SkyTeam. I would imagine that there will be some code sharing arrangement on these flights with somebody.

Time will tell.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
Only if NW drops their Hawaii routes. AS and NW have a gentlemans agreement with one another, they won't compete on the same routes.

Burnsie, I don't think that is correct as it would be against the law. AS and NW are very close to each other, but not with that type agreement.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
Burnsie, I don't think that is correct as it would be against the law. AS and NW are very close to each other, but not with that type agreement.

It was said that there is an agreement in place such as that, apparently the reason why NW stopped BOS-SEA, SEA-ANC, and AS never opened up a route that NW flies. I'm just going off what was said.
 
searpqx
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
Only if NW drops their Hawaii routes. AS and NW have a gentlemans agreement with one another, they won't compete on the same routes.

Burnsie, I don't think that is correct as it would be against the law. AS and NW are very close to each other, but not with that type agreement.

This is an ongoing argument between Burnsie and just about everyone else. AS has been very clear for years that they will fly where they see the opportunity for a good return. Considering AS had no problem pissing off one of its largest code-share partners, AA, and starting flights on the SEA-DFW route, I doubt seriously that they will hold back on Hawaii if they consider it a profitable market, which from every indication, they do.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 24):
It was said that there is an agreement in place such as that, apparently the reason why NW stopped BOS-SEA

NW stopped flying BOS-SEA because of the pull down of the BOS trans-atlantic hub just as they dropped BOS-LAX and BOS-SFO, and many other routes out of BOS at that time. An agreement with AS had nothing to do with BOS-SEA in any manner, and their name never came up in any discussion at NWA at that time. And yes, I was involved in those discussions.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 26):
An agreement with AS had nothing to do with BOS-SEA in any manner, and their name never came up in any discussion at NWA at that time. And yes, I was involved in those discussions.

Then perhaps ALPA should not have told the pilots that was the reason.
 
Lemurs
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 7):
Well CO flies 753s SEA-ANC and they codeshare with AS don't they? Or do they not codeshare on the ANC flights?

I've never seen a 753 on SEA-ANC by the way. Only 752's and 738/9's (once a 73G, but that was a sub I think. It's possible the 753 was a sub once in the past too) 753's in Seattle are almost always doing SEA-CLE in the summer and SEA-IAH during peak periods.

Someone once mentioned elsewhere the the 753 didn't actually have the lifting ability to make the cargo possibilities worthwhile for ANC-SEA-IAH routing. The 752 is much better suited to the task, despite the smaller size.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
eva777sea
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 28):
I've never seen a 753 on SEA-ANC by the way. Only 752's and 738/9's (once a 73G, but that was a sub I think. It's possible the 753 was a sub once in the past too) 753's in Seattle are almost always doing SEA-CLE in the summer and SEA-IAH during peak periods.

Someone once mentioned elsewhere the the 753 didn't actually have the lifting ability to make the cargo possibilities worthwhile for ANC-SEA-IAH routing. The 752 is much better suited to the task, despite the smaller size.

Thats my bad, last time I looked up SEA-ANC on CO was in the summer, but I am positive I saw at least one 753 doing IAH-SEA-ANC on multiple days.
 
Chugach
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 28):

I've never seen a 753 on SEA-ANC by the way. Only 752's and 738/9's (once a 73G, but that was a sub I think. It's possible the 753 was a sub once in the past too) 753's in Seattle are almost always doing SEA-CLE in the summer and SEA-IAH during peak periods.

Someone once mentioned elsewhere the the 753 didn't actually have the lifting ability to make the cargo possibilities worthwhile for ANC-SEA-IAH routing. The 752 is much better suited to the task, despite the smaller size.



Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 29):
Thats my bad, last time I looked up SEA-ANC on CO was in the summer, but I am positive I saw at least one 753 doing IAH-SEA-ANC on multiple days.

CO 667 / 223 has been a 753 for most of the winter. Not sure if it is right now (I would be surprised if it isn't since it's spring break season). Right now the CO summer schedule is showing all 738/739's to ANC, but I would be very surprised if that doesn't change between now and then. CO packs 'em in to ANC pretty much year round in my personal experience.
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alexinwa
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 13):
Have to agree with our esteemed colleagues on this forum when saying it is highly unlikely that NW would put an A330 on SEA-HNL (remember, never say never...because one never knows when never doesn't apply, right?....sorry, the meds).

Thats very interesting considering for MANY years NW did double daily DC10's SEA-HNL. Granted one was a MSP-SEA-HNL routing, however even after the MSP-HNL n/s came on they still flew double daily DC10's.

Now one 330 would lose 100+ seats daily on the SEA-HNL run, however, I would be very cautious in saying that a 330 would never be on the SEA-HNL route. Big money maker and it's just been in the last 4 or 5 years that HA has really caught up with NW on this route. (Mainly due to UA not running it's DC10 anymore)
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ANCFlyer
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 30):
CO packs 'em in to ANC pretty much year round in my personal experience.

 checkmark  CO can easily max out a 753/2 on their ANC runs. I'm surprised they have a 738/9 scheduled at the moment. I anticpate that will change, as you have said.

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 31):
(Mainly due to UA not running it's DC10 anymore)

Ahhhh, good old United Flight 33, SEA-HNL. One awesome ride on a DC-10. Used to take a UA727 from ANC-SEA and connect with UA33 to HNL. Great connection too. Shame it's gone now.

As an aside, I can recall the UA DC-8 that did ANC-HNL-ANC . . . now there's a blast from the past.
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bobnwa
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 27):
Then perhaps ALPA should not have told the pilots that was the reason.

If ALPA told the NWA pilots that was the reason,(which I somehow doubt) they were wrong. What did ALPA say about dropping BOS-LAX, BOS-SFO, BOS-MCO, BOS-TPA, BOS-DCA, BOS-BDA, BOS-ORD etc? They all happened about the same time as BOS-SEA being dropped. They coincided with NWA dropping BOS-FRA, BOS=CDG, BOS-LGW.
 
matt
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
I always wondered why NW didn't send the A330 to HNL. As it currently stands, the NRT/AMS planes sit in SEA for almost 23 hours a day. That's plenty of time for a turn to HNL. I guess they must do maintenance in between the flights. Is that the case?

Can someone explain how/why the planes are in SEA for 23 hours a day?
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:15 pm

NW 8 NRT-SEA Arrives 7:15am A330-200
NW 33 AMS-SEA Arrives 2:30pm A330-200

NW 34 SEA-AMS Departs 12:55pm A330-200
NW 7 SEA-NRT Departs 1:00pm A330-200

So yes, there is an A330 that sits for almost 23 hours in SEA. The A330 arriving from AMS will sit from 2:30pm until ~1pm the following day. However, SEA is the only place the A330's will sit state-side for any extended period of time to perform routine maintenance. MSP doesn't get the A330-200's, and the only other station is MEM, but the ground time is only about 2.5 hours before flying back to AMS.

So yes there is a reason why the A330-200 sits for 23 hours. Flying to HNL would not allow for maintenance and doesn't make sense. The 332 is 32/211 (243) while the 753 is 24/200 (224), so all you would gain is a total of 19 seats, but the A330-200 has a lot more weight, a lot more premium seats (WBC), and has a lot higher operating costs. If SEA needed an additional Hawaii flight, they'd use the 753, not an A330 which would be overkill.
 
eva777sea
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 35):
So yes there is a reason why the A330-200 sits for 23 hours. Flying to HNL would not allow for maintenance and doesn't make sense. The 332 is 32/211 (243) while the 753 is 24/200 (224), so all you would gain is a total of 19 seats, but the A330-200 has a lot more weight, a lot more premium seats (WBC), and has a lot higher operating costs. If SEA needed an additional Hawaii flight, they'd use the 753, not an A330 which would be overkill.

Well that doesn't make much sense because NW used to operate double daily DC10s on the route so they could probably make an A332 upgrade work. (Replace one of the 753 flights)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 36):
Well that doesn't make much sense because NW used to operate double daily DC10s on the route so they could probably make an A332 upgrade work. (Replace one of the 753 flights)

That was in a different time for NWA, before they had the 753's, and also before they had the number of West Coast-Hawaii flights that they do now.

Replacing a 753 with an A332 would be a very stupid, and very expensive idea.
 
Indy
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RE: NW SEA-HNL

Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:16 am

This is another reason that NW should keep the IND-SEA service year round. Not just the SEA o/d but also for connections to Hawaii since TZ no longer flies from here.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air