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USAF336TFS
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AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:44 am

Fair Use from Associated Press:

"
AP
Boeing in Talks About 747 Airplane Sales
Wednesday February 28, 12:54 pm ET
Boeing Says It's in Talks With 15 Companies About Possible Sales of New 747 Wide-Body Airplane


LONDON (AP) -- Boeing Co. said Wednesday that it is in talks with 15 companies in Europe, Asia and the Middle East about potential sales of its new longer 747 wide-body airplane.
Randy Tinseth, Boeing's vice president for 747 customers, said those discussions involved both the passenger and freight versions of the 747-8 airplane. Tinseth declined to name the potential buyers, comment on the number of planes under discussion or whether any North American airlines are interested.


Speaking at a briefing in London, Boeing executives also declined to comment on whether British Airways PLC, which has publicly expressed an interest in the plane, was planning to place an order.

"We continue to work very closely with BA, we are going to respond on every point," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of sales for Europe and central Asia.

Chicago-based Boeing has received 78 orders for the 747-8, including 24 passenger versions. German airline Lufthansa AG has made 20 of those passenger orders, with the other four going to private VIP customers.

Dan Mooney, vice president of the 747-8 program, said that development of the long-haul jet is on schedule.

Boeing executives stressed that the 467-seat 747-8 is not a direct competitor to Toulouse, France-based Airbus' A380 superjumbo, which has 555 seats.

With analysts and others in the industry pitting the new aircraft head-to-head, Tinseth said the 747-8 had been designed to be compatible with existing Boeing 747 and 777 fleets and the Airbus A340 and A380 family.

However, Luxembourg-based freight company Cargolux, announced 10 firm orders for the 747-8 after discussions with both plane makers in the development stages of each new aircraft.

Analysts believe that after concentrating massive resources on the A380, Airbus has been outmaneuvered by the 787, which delivers better fuel economy than older four-engine Airbus jets in the same size category.

Higher fuel prices have made the fuel-efficiency argument more persuasive. Airbus unveiled a restructuring Wednesday to cut 10,000 jobs over four years as it tries to overcome costly delays to its A380 program and the effects of a weaker U.S. dollar."

The questions begs, who is the next 747-8i customer?
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MCOflyer
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:46 am

It wouldnt surprise me if BA was one of them.

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NYC777
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Thread starter):
The questions begs, who is the next 747-8i customer?

I think it'll be VS. BA will be spurred to making a decision sooner rather than later (onthe 748I) in part because VS will be ordering it before they do.
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PExDCA
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:52 am

I bet JL is a good possibility.
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DAYflyer
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:02 am

For North America, I just dont see any orders anytime soon despite the need to do replace aircraft. The financials just aren't there yet for the big 6. Of those UA is the most likely to order it I think.

I do expect BA to order it. I dont know who else would.
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Stitch
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:05 am

If any US carrier takes it, it will be UA. But their CFO has said he understand the need to update their fleet, but he'd rather wait for "new generation" products (737RS/A320RS, 787, A350XWB) to do so.
 
PEET7G
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:11 am

Of course they are in talks with several airlines... that's how they sell planes... really this is number X of such reports... in the mean time I keep hopeing for tons 748 orders! BA, VS, JL, CX, EK, etc. are all on my wishlist too  Smile
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
I think it'll be VS. BA will be spurred to making a decision sooner rather than later (onthe 748I) in part because VS will be ordering it before they do.

And why would BA order the B748 because of VS while not following VS on the A380? BA will order either plane if it makes sense for them, but certainly not because 'the other guys' have it.
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UALMMFlyer
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:07 am

Quote:
Boeing in Talks About 747 Airplane Sales

The key word here is "TALKS".

Airplane manufacturers talk to airlines all the time.

Why would this piece of information be anything usual? It must be a slow day for the press
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
BA will be spurred to making a decision sooner rather than later (onthe 748I) in part because VS will be ordering it before they do.

If they'd follow your logic, then BA would have ordered quite a few A380s a long time ago. If BA orders the 747-8I, then it's not because they just "jumped on the bandwagon". That being said, I'm still confident about BA ordering the 747-8I. As for VS, the 747-8I might only have a big chance of making it to their fleet if they cancel at least half of their A380 order.
 
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
As for VS, the 747-8I might only have a big chance of making it to their fleet if they cancel at least half of their A380 order.

What makes you say that? The A380 is considerably larger than the A340s and 744s they currently use, so logic would suggest they'd need a slightly smaller aircraft to replace those types. Plus, VS likes to stress the whole "Fly a Younger Fleet" concept so the 748 would be a good intermediate step for them to replace older units with until the A380s are ready.
 
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 10):
What makes you say that?

It's an assumption, an uneducated one perhaps (and for that I apologise), but just an assumption. Besides, wasn't it SRB himself who originally ruled out buying more 747s for VS?
 
trex8
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:56 am

CI will sign for those 10 747/A340 replacements they have been pondering about for over a year as soon as the Pentagon sends pricing and availability information to the Taiwanese Ministry of Defense for the 66 block 52 F16s they want. That is assuming the French don't send pricing on Rafales before then!
 
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
If any US carrier takes it, it will be UA. But their CFO has said he understand the need to update their fleet, but he'd rather wait for "new generation" products (737RS/A320RS, 787, A350XWB) to do so.

I thought I read in a prior post that UA has a dozen or so routes that require a plane at least the size of the 744. Other than the 380, there really isn't a plane on the horizon that offers the capacity of the 744. What aircraft can replace the 744 or 380?
 
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 13):
What aircraft can replace the 744 or 380?

The 748I. UA has a 50% chance I say of ordering it.

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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
UA has a 50% chance I say of ordering it.

I disagree... I think its higher than that. I would say 75% as the A380 is too much plane and the 773ER is too little.

UA has had success with the 744, so why would they change that?

Just my 2 cents!
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Lemurs
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:22 pm

VS just announced they're scaling back their growth by 50% over the coming years, as part of their new delivery timeline for the A346's and A380's they have on order. If they're slowing their growth, picking up the second largest airliner in the world right now wouldn't make much sense, would it? I just have a hard time seeing how VS would be one of them unless they're picking up delviery dates WAY in the future.
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AviationAddict
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 16):

Has VS announced plans to replace their current 744s with either the A346s or the A380s? If they have not, and these new Airbus products are going to be used to replace current A340s and for overall growth, than I'd say the company is still very much a candidate for the 748 because they'll need something to replace the 744s.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:49 pm

I'm surprised no one mentioned AI?

Or EY, or TG?
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Norcal773
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:01 pm

Seriosusly, Boeing are not gonna come out and say they aren't talking to anybody regarding the 748. I.am actually surprised the number of airlines they put out there is only 15. Heck, include airlines like IB, QR and Finnair if you want.
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GECMD11
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:03 pm

My list : BA,CX,UA,JL...and one day poss LH-Cargo....
 
2wingtips
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:58 pm

EK is definitely very high up there on the list, as is CI.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:03 pm

Is this a weekly or bi-weekly ritual? I mean, how many times do we need an article saying: "Boeing salespeople are talking to airlines about buying the 747." Isn't that their job?  Wink
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SCAT15F
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
Is this a weekly or bi-weekly ritual? I mean, how many times do we need an article saying: "Boeing salespeople are talking to airlines about buying the 747." Isn't that their job?

I must admit, I am getting tired of that "talk" as well. What we need is some specific customers and WHEN they plan to make decisions on the 748; NOT like BA saying "later this year". I mean, what's the point of a comment like that?

Actually, I still think NW is a good possibility for the 748I -despite the bankruptcy- after all, they somehow were able to afford all the 788's they ordered in spite of being in the red, and now they are emerging from chapter 11.
NWA's fleet of 744's are even older than UA's. In fact, they recieved the first 744 off the line, so they have the oldest 744 of anyone.
 
MCIGuy
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:12 pm

Unfortunately, I don't see any of the US carriers ordering 748i's any time soon, if ever. I think BA is all sewn up though. I'd expect a bunch of sales in Asia as well as more in Europe.
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manni
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:28 pm

The timing of this 'no news' is interesting, I suspect it's nothing more then asking for attention at the time Airbus announces that they will simultaniously land an A380 at LAX and JFK? If Boeing wouldn't be in talks with airlines about the 748i, THAT would be news.
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MCIGuy
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 25):
I suspect it's nothing more then asking for attention at the time Airbus announces that they will simultaniously land an A380 at LAX and JFK?

OK.....

I too, suspect the timing, as in, they know an order or two are in the bag and they're itching to say it.  Wink
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dougbr2006
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
I think it'll be VS. BA will be spurred to making a decision sooner rather than later (onthe 748I) in part because VS will be ordering it before they do.

Does VS need the capacity after all they just pushed back A340600 delivery slots !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting GECMD11 (Reply 20):
and one day poss LH-Cargo....

Yeah that for sure as they are renting 744s of other airlines , they need A/Cs in this size ...
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PEET7G
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 25):
The timing of this 'no news' is interesting, I suspect it's nothing more then asking for attention at the time Airbus announces that they will simultaniously land an A380 at LAX and JFK? If Boeing wouldn't be in talks with airlines about the 748i, THAT would be news.

 checkmark  I'm with you on this one...
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warren747sp
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:15 pm

It will be CI. plus NW would be a pleasant surprise since they need aircraft badly for any expansion or just to maintain market share.
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USAF336TFS
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 25):
The timing of this 'no news' is interesting, I suspect it's nothing more then asking for attention at the time Airbus announces that they will simultaniously land an A380 at LAX and JFK? If Boeing wouldn't be in talks with airlines about the 748i, THAT would be news.

A rare occasion that we agree Manni  Wink

I was thinking that this could be an attempt to jiggle up the stock price after the market meltdowns on Tuesday.
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Joni
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 25):
The timing of this 'no news' is interesting, I suspect it's nothing more then asking for attention at the time Airbus announces that they will simultaniously land an A380 at LAX and JFK? If Boeing wouldn't be in talks with airlines about the 748i, THAT would be news.

I agree - in fact I'm a bit surprised they only say they're in talks with 15 airlines.. of course that doesn't exclude that they'd be in talks with more, but anyway.

The A380 US journeys are a bit small on the scale, perhaps it's just that Airbus has been all over the news the past days, with the UPS deal and the restructuring.
 
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 28):
and one day poss LH-Cargo....

Yeah that for sure as they are renting 744s of other airlines , they need A/Cs in this size ...

Although they have said the 20 purchase rights are for the 748I only I think there also a slight possibility that some of them are going to changed into orders for 748F (I do hope that the keep the 20 purchase rights for the Intercontinental and order additional 747-8Fs  Wink as well as some 787s  Wink )
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Custome

Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 33):

Although they have said the 20 purchase rights are for the 748I only I think there also a slight possibility that some of them are going to changed into orders for 748F (I do hope that the keep the 20 purchase rights for the Intercontinental and order additional 747-8Fs Wink as well as some 787s Wink )

Oh that would be perfect : 748I , 748F ,777F , 783 , 350-9/-10 , 380-800/-900 ... best fleet ... Big grin

But I don´t think they´ll change the options they need all 40 A/Cs .
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na
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 34):
Oh that would be perfect : 748I , 748F ,777F , 783 , 350-9/-10 , 380-800/-900 ... best fleet ... 

I agree, LH will have the best fleet in the world by 2012.

But I doubt that we will see A350 AND 787s here, I´m pretty sure LHs future "middelclass" will be all Airbus.
(Lets hope, they install the better seats a la A380 also in the 748s)
 
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 31):
I was thinking that this could be an attempt to jiggle up the stock price after the market meltdowns on Tuesday.

Of course, in the US, giving out false information which has the effect of bolstering the value of its stock is securities fraud. I am sure Boeing is smart enough to know just how much "feel good" PR it can release before it crosses the line into fraudulent activity. So there must be something going on with the 748. We'll just have to wait and see what it is!
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting NA (Reply 35):
But I doubt that we will see A350 AND 787s here, I�m pretty sure LHs future "middelclass" will be all Airbus.

Yeah it´s just a dream-wish , but maybe for the 300s they get some 783s with same engines as the 748 , and they order just 787s instead of 350s... I see the chances 50-50
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trex8
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 37):
but maybe for the 300s they get some 783s with same engines as the 748

but they aren't the same fan size and the 787s are bleedless, given they will have lots of Trents in the fleet anyway, there may be little gained having two versions of the GEnx
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 36):
Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 31):
I was thinking that this could be an attempt to jiggle up the stock price after the market meltdowns on Tuesday.

Of course, in the US, giving out false information which has the effect of bolstering the value of its stock is securities fraud. I am sure Boeing is smart enough to know just how much "feel good" PR it can release before it crosses the line into fraudulent activity. So there must be something going on with the 748. We'll just have to wait and see what it is!

I didn't mean to imply fraud in any way, shape or form. My comments were aimed the perception, rightly so, of a slow news day.
I did suggest however, that the news release could be a move on Boeing's part to remind it's stockholders that a concerted effort was being made to sell more 748s. Boring as that may be, we do like to be reminded every once in awhile.
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LCFreeman49
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:53 am

I work with Delta and know the ompany philosphy of the company with never owning a four engined aircraft again, but for my money, with the way Delta is expanding, why not Delta? I would love to see a 747-800 going to South Africa, and Australia/New Zealand.

Any thoughts?
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SEPilot
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting LCFreeman49 (Reply 40):
I work with Delta and know the ompany philosphy of the company with never owning a four engined aircraft again,

My experience with company directives like that is invariably they run headlong into reality. Either the company realizes that the blind directive is an obstacle and removes it or they hobble themselves needlessly. If the best aircraft for a particular route is 4 engined Delta would be foolish to pass up the opportunity if it will make money.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
bphendri
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:52 am

I hope Asiana is one of them..

I would love to see a 748i in OZ colors, especially the new paint scheme.
 
keesje
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:01 am

I hope the 747-8i will score some additional sales, most likely with traditional Boeing state customers like JAL, Korean, Air China. 2,5 years after Boeing tested the water with the Advanced and nearly 1.5 yrs after the -8 launch just 20 8i´s are sold. The business plan is to sell 2 thirds passenger and 1 third cargo aircraft. I can´t imagine Carson dancing around his office yet. "We are not happy with where we stand now" to use the language..

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DAYflyer
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:22 am

I predict the 747-8i will outsell the A-380 by a margin of two to one within 5 years.
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Stitch
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:29 am

Baby steps, Keesje. Baby steps.  Smile After all, it took Airbus five years to secure the first 50 orders to launch the A388 program, so while Carson is right to believe 20 is not enough, I don't think he needs to quite start looking over his shoulder for McNerney.  Smile
 
JAAlbert
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 39):
I didn't mean to imply fraud in any way, shape or form. My comments were aimed the perception, rightly so, of a slow news day.

And I of course hope you don't think I am saying so about you! I'm just adding my two cents worth and you have a valid point about what Boeing is up to disclosing this news. (Is this news?)  Smile
 
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SEPilot
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 43):
The business plan is to sell 2 thirds passenger and 1 third cargo aircraft.

You have it backwards; as I heard it they plan on 2/3 freighters and 1/3 passenger. Certainly that is the way the sales have gone. Now with the A380F delayed indefinitely the 748F has no competition, and is likely to sell very well as air cargo continues to increase. Remember we have a bet on whether the last 747 will be built after the last A380; I'm still confident of winning.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
PEET7G
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 47):
Remember we have a bet on whether the last 747 will be built after the last A380; I'm still confident of winning.

Wow, now that's an interesting bet  Big grin
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keesje
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RE: AP: Boeing In Talks With Potential 747 Customers

Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 47):
You have it backwards; as I heard it they plan on 2/3 freighters and 1/3 passenger.

That is if they adjust the plan to the reality. (with is nout unlikely of-course)

Boeing so far has received 44 orders for the dash 8F but none from airlines for the passenger version. "We could potentially have an order by the end of this year," Mooney said. "But 'confident' is probably too strong a word." In the long run, the manufacturer estimates that two-thirds of dash 8 orders will be for the passenger version. "It's just a matter of time" before orders for the Intercontinental are placed, he said. http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=6950

However, in the long-term Boeing remains confident about the passenger version of the 747-8 as well, and is expecting it to account for two thirds of 747-8 sales compared with one third for the cargo function. http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHeft/FRHeft07/FRH0701/FR0701e.htm

So Boeing would have to sell another 140 to get back on track.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 47):
Remember we have a bet on whether the last 747 will be built after the last A380; I'm still confident of winning.

Yes, what was the reward again ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway