pilot21
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Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:42 pm

Well despite another topic on here stating that VS has delayed delivery of the remaining A346's over the next few yrs, SRB has now just thrown that story to the wind and says VS is talking to both Airbus and Boeing about ordering new aircraft to make up for delays in the A380!!
He says 'it is possible' VS will order new aircraft, and an announcement will be made in the next 3 to 4 weeks. SRB says they are talking to Boeing and Airbus.

Sorry folks, but VS and BMI seem to be a good partnerships given the confusing statements being thrown around by VS lately. Delayed A340 and A380 deliveries, so they don't grow too quickly, but let's order something completely different!!!
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kappel
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:46 pm

Indeed a very strange development.

Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
Sorry folks, but VS and BMI seem to be a good partnerships given the confusing statements being thrown around by VS lately. Delayed A340 and A380 deliveries, so they don't grow too quickly, but let's order something completely different!!!

Not to mention all those 777/a330/a350 rumours of the last year!!
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scouseflyer
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:51 pm

To bridge the gap to the A380, they'll want something sharpish - I'm guessing A330 or T7 (or 767 for a real curve ball!)
 
manni
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
VS is talking to both Airbus and Boeing about ordering new aircraft to make up for delays in the A380!!

They've asked Airbus to postpone the delivery of the A380 and reportedly have also delayed the delivery of 6 A346s. Why would they need any new aircraft if they're delaying the deliveries of the ones they've ordered?
Perhaps it is Virgin Blue Mr. Branson is talking about?
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osiris30
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 1):
Indeed a very strange development.

I don't think it's all that strange. Some of us have been saying all along that Virgin simply doesn't WANT the 340s or 380s because there are better/cheaper/smaller aircraft that fit with what they want to do.

They are still expecting growth, just not enough to fill a 380. The 340s are, objectively, sub-optimal aircraft for just about every profile they fly. There are better things on the market and better things coming to market. If VS could get away with differing them and later coverting to something else I don't see that as surprising at all.
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osiris30
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 3):
Why would they need any new aircraft if they're delaying the deliveries of the ones they've ordered?

Because compared to a 777, 787 or 350 the 346 is a waste of time and they don't want them. Or perhaps the 346 is bigger than they want now and they want something 787 sized instead.
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pilot21
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 3):
Why would they need any new aircraft if they're delaying the deliveries of the ones they've ordered?
Perhaps it is Virgin Blue Mr. Branson is talking about?

Exactly my point in the original thread starter Manni, I've no idea why they want something different, but it is definitely VS SRB is talking about. Time will tell, but this is the strangest news I've heard from VS, given the previous stories about the A346 and A380.
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manni
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 5):
Because compared to a 777, 787 or 350 the 346 is a waste of time and they don't want them.

Virgin Atlantic has ordered the A346 not once but twice, and not just a few of them. IMO you GUESSED wrong.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 5):
Or perhaps the 346 is bigger than they want now and they want something 787 sized instead.

That they might want something smaller sounds more plausible.

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 6):
Time will tell, but this is the strangest news I've heard from VS, given the previous stories about the A346 and A380.

Are the A346 rumours (delivery postponed) confirmed by VS?
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osiris30
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
Virgin Atlantic has ordered the A346 not once but twice, and not just a few of them. IMO you GUESSED wrong.

Last time they ordered the 346 there was no 350 coming. Things change Manni. It looks like they may have changed with respect to VS wanting the 346.

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
That they might want something smaller sounds more plausible.

One of many possibilities. Another is that they are going to cancel those 346 AND 380s and roll it into deposits for 350s instead. Lots of ways this could go, but the 350 is superior to the 346 for most of what VS does IMHO.
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kappel
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 8):
One of many possibilities. Another is that they are going to cancel those 346 AND 380s and roll it into deposits for 350s instead. Lots of ways this could go, but the 350 is superior to the 346 for most of what VS does IMHO.

Of course it's superior. But it's also a lon wait (8 years?). That makes it odd
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NYC777
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:20 am

I think they get 77W/748I and possibly the 787s (-9 and -10 models).
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osiris30
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 9):
Of course it's superior. But it's also a lon wait (8 years?). That makes it odd

Why? Look at what Virgin has said (at least what I think they've said):

1) We are growing but not nearly at the rate we predicted
2) We are deferring the 346
3) We want to be "green" (SRB)

If the 350 is 8 years away and VS doesn't need a ton of extra capacity now, why not roll the orders over while they can. They can always lease aircraft in the mean time, rather than get stuck with a bunch of 346s that are going to be utterly worthless in 10 years on the resale market. Plus VS can rid themselves of a 380 order I don't think anyone *truly* believes they want.
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manni
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 8):
Last time they ordered the 346 there was no 350 coming.

The A350 will not be available for many years to come, all A346s on order would long have been delivered by then.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 8):
but the 350 is superior to the 346

Let's hope it is. Afterall, one of the A350XWB versions is supposed to replace the A346.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
I think they get 77W/748I and possibly the 787s (-9 and -10 models).

Why dont you include the A330 and A350? That way you have a 100% certainty they'll order atleast one of the aircraft you've mentioned...

Unless they order more A346s and A380s... wait  crazy 
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NYC777
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 12):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
I think they get 77W/748I and possibly the 787s (-9 and -10 models).


Why dont you include the A330 and A350? That way you have a 100% certainty they'll order atleast one of the aircraft you've mentioned...

Uh huh, because I think Branson is sufficiently pissed at Airbus and the trust level VS has in Airbus delivering is sufficiently eroded that he would rather go with Boeing. Don't forget that SQ owns 49% of VS so I think what they have to say carries some weight.
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Stitch
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:38 am

An interim A330 lease tied into a large A350XWB order (with subsequent cancellation of the A346 and A388 order) could be a good fit for SRB.

I can't see the 777 entering the fleet. That ship has sailed, just as it has for QF and LH.

The 787 is a possibility, but only if SRB feels Airbus can't deliver the A350XWB in a reasonable time-frame and he doesn't need high-end (A346 level) capacity anymore. Both of which strike me as unlikely.
 
kappel
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 11):
If the 350 is 8 years away and VS doesn't need a ton of extra capacity now, why not roll the orders over while they can. They can always lease aircraft in the mean time, rather than get stuck with a bunch of 346s that are going to be utterly worthless in 10 years on the resale market. Plus VS can rid themselves of a 380 order I don't think anyone *truly* believes they want.

I don't know if the a346 will we utterly wothless in 10 years time. That depends on too many factors to say anything about that. Fact is indeed that with deferring the a346 and a380 for 6 years, they won't be receiving any aircraft in those years. That's not limiting growth, that's stopping growth. Anything smaller (a332/b777?) they order now won't be available for at least 2 years IIRC.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 11):
We want to be "green" (SRB)

The a380 can be seen as a 'green' aircraft. It moves more people at a time and uses less fuel(than a 744). Unless of course it is indeed too big, which means they made a huge miscalculation when they ordered it.
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mham001
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:40 am

LONDON, March 2 (Reuters) - Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] expects to decide within a month whether it will acquire new Airbus or Boeing (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) planes to help it deal with the delay in Airbus's A380 superjumbo.

Branson told Bloomberg Television in an interview.

"We are going to need quite a few planes, but we will only get planes if we can reduce the carbon output of them quite dramatically," he added.
 
manni
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Uh huh, because I think Branson is sufficiently pissed at Airbus and the trust level VS has in Airbus delivering is sufficiently eroded that he would rather go with Boeing.

OK. And why would Mr. Branson be pissed at Airbus? Because Airbus agreed to postpone the delivery of the A380? Because Airbus, reportedly, agreed to postpone the delivery of the A346. VS ordered more aircraft then they could swallow, judging by all the aircraft they are postponing. If anything, Mr. Branson is likely be very pleased with Airbus' understanding.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Don't forget that SQ owns 49% of VS so I think what they have to say carries some weight.

And what are they saying NYC777? That they have that much trust in Airbus, after all the A380 delays, that they've ordered another 9 A380s. That they, after rejecting the A333 twice, have finally agreed to lease 19 of these beauties.

There's no indication whatsoever that either one of the CEO's of these airlines are pissed at Airbus.
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columba
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Uh huh, because I think Branson is sufficiently pissed at Airbus and the trust level VS has in Airbus delivering is sufficiently eroded that he would rather go with Boeing. Don't forget that SQ owns 49% of VS so I think what they have to say carries some weight.

The SQ argument is not very good if you want to proof that the order will go to Boeing.
SQ just has said that they consider the 747 an outdated aircraft and the future is the A380. They also have 330s on order and signed letter of intent for 20 A350-900s.
I believe VS will change its order for A340-600s into an order for A330s and sign for A350 at a later date.
The A330 offers the advantage commonality with their existing A343 and A346 fleet plus VS already has placed deposits with Airbus.
I can see them ordering the 747-8I if they decide that
a) they have a gap between the A346 and the A380 (like Lufthansa)
b) the A380 is too big for their needs and the 747-8I offers the right size for them.
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CX747
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:51 am

There has been alot of talk around the forums and chat sites regarding VS's decision to spread out their A340-600 orders. At last glance, VS was slowing down their growth for unstated reasons. This decision flies directly in the face of that. IF VS needs additional lift over the next 2-3 years and doesn't want the A340-600, then there are only a few choices. Those choices would be the 330, 767, 777 and 747. Each platform would represent different needs by VS. If they wanted less capacity and better economics, the 330/767/777 route would be the way to go. I am throwing the 767 in there, because Boeing could potentially offer the 767 or 777 as an interim lift solution until the 787 or production slots for the 777-300ER became available. An order for the 747-8 would surely be a blow to the A380 program and would show that VS is not counting the proverbial A380 egg before it hatches. VS could replace their entire 747-400 fleet with 747-8s and order additional airframes for growth instead of A380s. In this case, I think the A330 stands the best chance. Airbus would be more than willing to sell A330s at a discounted rate to VS in place of A340-600s or in lieu of continueing A380 delays.
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JAAlbert
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:42 am

Does VS have any 330s in its fleet at present?

If VS has rejected the 340 and 380 (at least in the near term), but needs interim lift capacity, then its not going to be ordering the 350xwb in the 3 to 4 week time frame mentioned by Branson. The plane won't be ready for another 8yrs (?) and I have not heard anyone express confidence that Airbus' predictions as to economics "green" benefits are accurate given the size of the plane airbus has planned. If interim lift capacity using planes that are flying now -- or reasonably like to be flying within the next three years -- is the goal, I don't see VS ordering the 350 within the next month.

So the 330 is the only airbus plane available to VS.

The 767 and 777 are the only two Boeings presently available. If it waits a bit 787 and 748 should be available within 5yrs. VS with the 767? Doubtful. The 330 shares commonality but is it big enough? That leaves a 777/748 order w/ potential 787 follow on.

My guess -- 330 and 748.
 
Indio66
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:50 am

What are the chances of VS trying a luxury (upperclass and prem econ) non-stop (or tech stop only west bound) to SYD with a couple of 777LRs??
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:56 am

Hmmm I can't find anything anywhere about this - do we have a news source for the reports?

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
My guess -- 330 and 748.

Good Analysis, I'd agree with your points - I'd only say that it may be 330 or 748 rather than both

Quoting Indio66 (Reply 21):
What are the chances of VS trying a luxury (upperclass and prem econ) non-stop (or tech stop only west bound) to SYD with a couple of 777LRs??

Not likely - it's a A.Net wet dream that one I'm afraid!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:08 am

It appears the initial story was incorrect, and the decision refers to Virgin Blue, not Virgin Atlantic:

Quoting http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=AIRLIN&storyid=2007-03-02T163615Z_01_L02314817_RTRIDST_0_VIRGINATLANTIC-AIRBUS-CORRECTED-OFFICIAL.XML:

(Corrects to Virgin Blue from Virgin Atlantic in first paragraph following company clarification of Branson's remarks; deletes reference to Airbus A380 in first paragraph)
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CX747
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:15 am

The correction doesn't make any sense. Virgin Blue doesn't have any A380s on order, so there is no gap to fill! Also, Virgin Blue just ordered 777-300ERs, 737-800s and E-190s within the last 2-3 weeks. Something is not right here. It seems to me that Richard spoke to quickly etc and is now doing the 1-2-3 backtrack.
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ikramerica
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:16 am

Last years, "insiders" were talking of VS planning on A330s to supplement their A340 fleet as a conversion of existing A340 orders, allowing the A340 to operate on the longer routes as it's more efficient there, but the timeframe was fuzzy. Others talked of 777s, but I always thought that seemed less likely. The A330 offers a common cabin and type rating for pilots, and for VS, this matters.

I think with the A346 "deferments" and the desire for interim lift despite those deferments, the A330 is a good shot.

This will be combined with reconsidering the A380 vs. 748, with the A340.

I think VS's future might look very much like today, only newer.

Past: A343+A346+744
Future: A333+A350X+748
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scouseflyer
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:21 am

I think that someone's got two things confused - Virgin Blue is going to order some planes (and they haven't signed for the T7s yet it just looks like it) and also a comment about the A380 being late.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 24):
The correction doesn't make any sense. Virgin Blue doesn't have any A380s on order, so there is no gap to fill!

Re-read it. The correction removes any reference to a "gap" or A380s when referring to Virgin Blue's order.
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CX747
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:34 am

"deletes reference to Airbus A380 in first paragraph". I agree that it deletes any reference to the A380 in the first paragraph, but the A380 is mentioned later in the article. Virgin seems to be talking about a whole lot of nutin here!
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ikramerica
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 23):
It appears the initial story was incorrect, and the decision refers to Virgin Blue, not Virgin Atlantic:

That clears it up then.
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osiris30
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:52 am

Maybe you should repost the article and suggest this thread gets locked. Everything everyone was talking about prior pretty much is totally irrelevant now (myself included) LOL
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kaitak744
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 5):
Because compared to a 777, 787 or 350 the 346 is a waste of time and they don't want them.

Absolutely. Sir Richard Branson just realized....Why keep the old technology coming? Two options:

1. Airbus can see Virgin is really pissed at A380 delays and A340-600 performance, and Airbus can offer them a sweet sweet deal on some A350-900s and A350-1000s, and give some incentive to keep A380 orders.

2. Boeing can offer a good deal and Virgin will order some 787-9s, 777-300ERs, and 747-8s.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 24):
Something is not right here. It seems to me that Richard spoke to quickly etc and is now doing the 1-2-3 backtrack.



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 26):
think that someone's got two things confused - Virgin Blue is going to order some planes (and they haven't signed for the T7s yet it just looks like it) and also a comment about the A380 being late.

It could be that the article "may" have been discussing the two different airlines and, due to a journalist's poor drafting, the discussion became jumbled. But the fact that Branson is stating -- in the portion of the article discussing Virgin Atlantic's 380 deferral -- that VS is looking for planes from other sources, both Airbus and Boeing, suggests that perhaps VS is in negotiations to replace its deferred 340 and 380 deliveries. Branson also says in this portion to keep watching. It seems he's talking about VS here, not Virgin Blue.

I tend to agree with CX747. I think Branson let something slip here and is trying to take it back. In any event, it will be interesting to see what developes in the next few weeks!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:48 am

We know DJ was RFPing the 773ER and A346.

If DJ had chosen the A346, might VS have tried to assign their slots to DJ? And now that DJ is (said to be) taking the 773ER, VS now has to defer delivery, instead?
 
WINGS
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 31):
1. Airbus can see Virgin is really pissed at A380 delays and A340-600 performance,

A340-600 performance? Virgin got what they ordered. If you having info that suggest the opposite please feel free to share it with us.

Regards,
Wings
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sevenforeseven
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:09 am

Lets get this straight. VS are slowing there expansion but thats exactly it SLOWING, not STOPPING. In my opinion the A330 is on its way until the A380 comes on line. VS have for years expanded but now is the time to continue that expansion but at a more moderate rate. Times always change in the aviation business, where a ten year plan can be outdated in a year. What was "the thing to do" yesterday may not hold true today.
VS have a outstanding premium product and from what I always hear its the airline people love to fly.
A little restraint in expansion now will only increase it later.
 
2wingtips
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 17):
OK. And why would Mr. Branson be pissed at Airbus?

Very easy answer: VS like most other 345/346 carriers are less than thrilled with it's efficiency/performance/reliability. Which is why the recently announced 346 deferrals will be cancellations IMO.
Branson wants "greener "aircraft. This means new generation twins and probably 787s IMO. He said on Bloomberg they need new aircraft but won't order anything unless carbon emissions are significantly reduced.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 3):
Perhaps it is Virgin Blue Mr. Branson is talking about?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=adrb.Gzx8brs

Virgin Atlantic spokesman Paul Charles said today that Branson was discussing plane orders for Virgin's Australian carrier, Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd., during the interview, not Virgin Atlantic.

''Virgin Blue is in talks with Boeing about new equipment to assist its international growth,'' Charles said in an e- mailed statement. ''Virgin Atlantic talks to Airbus and Boeing on a day-to-day basis about its ongoing fleet needs. Its fleet remains one of the youngest long-haul fleets in the world, with an average age of five years.''


Does SQ really have a say in what VS orders or cancels? Either-way I do no see VS taking the A380 or anymore A346's.

May the 748i and A330.
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art
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
An interim A330 lease tied into a large A350XWB order (with subsequent cancellation of the A346 and A388 order) could be a good fit for SRB.

 checkmark  Would avoid being landed with more A346's. How about leasing A330's and securing A350XWB slots? If the A380 proved successful for other operators, the order could stand. If the A380 did not shine, the order could be switched to the A350XWB. I imagine one can negotiate all sorts of deals with Airbus at the moment.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 16):
Branson told Bloomberg Television in an interview.

"We are going to need quite a few planes, but we will only get planes if we can reduce the carbon output of them quite dramatically," he added.

Isn't the A346 a gas guzzler compared with its 777 competitor. If the above statement is correctly reported, that means no more A346's, surely?
 
flysherwood
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 3):
They've asked Airbus to postpone the delivery of the A380 and reportedly have also delayed the delivery of 6 A346s. Why would they need any new aircraft if they're delaying the deliveries of the ones they've ordered?
Perhaps it is Virgin Blue Mr. Branson is talking about?

Maybe they don't want them and are waiting for an opportunity to cancel those particular aircraft.
 
n1786b
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 37):
Virgin Atlantic spokesman Paul Charles said today that Branson was discussing plane orders for Virgin's Australian carrier, Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd., during the interview, not Virgin Atlantic.

Well, if Branson talks like this about Virgin Blue's fleet needs, it kind of reinforces the complaints by some US carriers about Virgin America that Sir Dick does have an invisible hand in running airlines with his name on them - no matter what kind of corporate/financial structure they may have....

- n1786b
 
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glideslope
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Uh huh, because I think Branson is sufficiently pissed at Airbus and the trust level VS has in Airbus delivering is sufficiently eroded that he would rather go with Boeing.

A view shared by many these days, and only getting worse. Airbus' largest problem next to poor engineering/management. IMO.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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scbriml
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 30):
Everything everyone was talking about prior pretty much is totally irrelevant now

Sounds pretty much like most of the threads on a.net!  wink 

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 31):
Virgin is really pissed at A380 delays and A340-600 performance

Based on what exactly? VS deferred delivery of their A380s, and the rumour (there's no firm evidence as far as I can tell) is they want to defer delivery of some A346s. VS has never, as far as I'm aware, said they're unhappy with the performance of their A346s (yes they had some teething problems).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 34):
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 31):
1. Airbus can see Virgin is really pissed at A380 delays and A340-600 performance,

A340-600 performance? Virgin got what they ordered. If you having info that suggest the opposite please feel free to share it with us.

Regards,
Wings

Hi Wings.....I would say it had to do with the EIS problems VS had, but that was 1/2 decade ago.....from what I know, the A346's have been performing just fine for VS.. thumbsup ..

If the plane was so bad, one would expect to not have seen LH order a few more.......

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 36):
Quoting Manni (Reply 17):
OK. And why would Mr. Branson be pissed at Airbus?

Very easy answer: VS like most other 345/346 carriers are less than thrilled with it's efficiency/performance/reliability. Which is why the recently announced 346 deferrals will be cancellations IMO.
Branson wants "greener "aircraft. This means new generation twins and probably 787s IMO. He said on Bloomberg they need new aircraft but won't order anything unless carbon emissions are significantly reduced.

...besides the aforementioned EIS problem with VS, its performance and reliability has been basically up to standards.....

...regarding efficiency..while its not as efficient as the B773ER's of the world, it is nonetheless a very good plane...if the plane wasn't profitable, one can certainly bet that the VS's, LH's, QR's, EY's, and CX's of the world wouldn't be keeping it in their fleet.. no 
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JAL
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:01 am

I don't see Virgin Atlantic ordering from Boeing but anything can happen!
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SCAT15F
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:09 am

I'm going to guess 787-9's for the mid range and A350-1000 for high capacity. With the 747-8I as a possibility, especially if Boeing can get the range up to 8500nm.
 
BAalltheway
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:16 am

This might be a stupid comment, but isn't VS's whole thing having a/c with 4 engines? I seem to recall them using having a/c with 4 engines as a marketing tool (and I'm not referring to those cheesy slogans on the planes) using the "safety" of 4 engines as their schtick. Have they changed their ideology and I'm just behind or totally mistaken?

If this is still the case, why is everyone on here talking about the A330, A350 and T7? Unless, as someone mentioned before, they are referring to Virgin Blue.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 44):
I don't see Virgin Atlantic ordering from Boeing but anything can happen!

Guess you can't see... causel they did!

Virgin Atlantic Airways United Kingdom Europe 747-400 GE 20-Dec-1996 1
Virgin Atlantic Airways United Kingdom Europe 747-400 GE 30-Sep-1998 1
Virgin Atlantic Airways United Kingdom Europe 747-400 GE 23-Aug-2000 2
Virgin Atlantic Airways United Kingdom Europe 747-400 GE 10-Nov-2000 5

Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-700 CF 30-Jun-2004 2
Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-800 CF 31-Dec-2002 10
Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-800 CF 03-Oct-2003 2
Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-800 CF 06-Nov-2003 3
Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-800 CF 30-Jan-2004 2
Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-800 CF 31-Dec-2004 4
Virgin Blue Airlines Australia Oceania 737-800 CF 28-Apr-2006 9

VS would not talk to Boeing and delay the (6) A346's and A380's and be left outside in the dark.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
c680
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 36):
He said on Bloomberg they need new aircraft but won't order anything unless carbon emissions are significantly reduced.

I.E. Fuel effiency. Doesn't that mean B787?
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Virgin In Talks With Boeing/Airbus On New Aircraft

Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
Are the A346 rumours (delivery postponed) confirmed by VS?

I'll add a question to your question: Has VS expressed dissatisfaction with the A340-600 or is this something a.netters merely suppose?
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